Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

[John Simkin]

Dawn has sent me details of a speech made by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on 17 September 2005. He seems the sort of person who might be interested in discovering the truth about the assassination of JFK.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091705Z.shtml

[Nic Martin]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

[Pat Speer]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a whole crop of Bobby's kids that I'm betting are gonna crack and start talking about the murders of their father and uncle. John, if you're looking for one to talk with I would start with Maxwell Taylor Kennedy, who I shook hands with last year at a park opening in honor of Mexican-American civil rights and labor activist Cesar Chavez.

Not only did he seem eager for his family's legacy of embracing the good fight to continue, he's a history professor! You might want to contact him.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Nic Martin]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a whole crop of Bobby's kids that I'm betting are gonna crack and start talking about the murders of their father and uncle. John, if you're looking for one to talk with I would start with Maxwell Taylor Kennedy, who I got to shake hands with last year at a park opening in honor of Mexican-American civil rights and labor activist Cesar Chavez.

Not only did he seem eager for his family's legacy of embracing the good fight to continue, he's a history professor! You might want to contact him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't doubt that a Kennedy will eventually crack and talk about it, but I don't think it's going to be Bobby Jr. His latest book sold relatively well, and I don't know if he'd want the negative media stigma against a follow-up because he was stamped a conspiracy nut.

[John Dolva]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nic, don't you think that he and others in the Kennedy family and their intimates DO think about that a lot? I think it is interesting that the 'think tank' produce vic-a-vis 'environmental' (read : pro-industry irrespective of environmental effect except insofar as circumventing protest) policy that Bobbie Jr. is attacking quite vigorously in this speech are spawns of the JBS and allied think tanks. For some time now these elements have been guiding conservative thought on enviromental issues. It could be argued that this speech IS a declaration of his thinking in the Kennedy issue. That remains to be seen. If so, I don't envy him. But, given what his Family have gone through, I suspect he's approaching these issues 'eyes wide open'.

[Nic Martin]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nic, don't you think that he and others in the Kennedy family and their intimates DO think about that a lot? I think it is interesting that the 'think tank' produce vic-a-vis 'environmental' (read : pro-industry irrespective of environmental effect except insofar as circumventing protest) policy that Bobbie Jr. is attacking quite vigorously in this speech are spawns of the JBS and allied think tanks. For some time now these elements have been guiding conservative thought on enviromental issues. It could be argued that this speech IS a declaration of his thinking in the Kennedy issue. That remains to be seen. If so, I don't envy him. But, given what his Family have gone through, I suspect he's approaching these issues 'eyes wide open'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously they think about it, but I'm not sure how many of them today believe in a conspiracy, or - given the fact they're married with children, would speak out if they did. Considering the many ways in which people have shut Kennedys up, Bobby Jr. of all people, would probably rather turn a blind eye for his safety & the safety of his family.

[Pat Speer]

FWIW, writer/producer Eric Hamburg has written about his attendance at a 40th anniversary of the Bay of Pigs event held in Cuba. He mentions that one of those in attendance was the wife of noted historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. He says she spoke openly of her belief that the CIA killed Kennedy. Her companion on the trip? JFK's sister, Jean Kennedy Smith. While this by no means indicates that the Kennedys as a family believe the CIA did it, it certainly indicates such theories are not repellent to them. I think it's clear they keep their mouths shut for political reasons, and not because they endorse the lone nut theory..

[John Dolva]

I don't think he'd do it, to be honest. Investigating this case gets you tagged as a nutjob, and his books at the moment are selling pretty well. It's bad stigma, although if someone managed to get him to THINK about it, his stamp of approval on either theory would seal the minds of most Americans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nic, don't you think that he and others in the Kennedy family and their intimates DO think about that a lot? I think it is interesting that the 'think tank' produce vic-a-vis 'environmental' (read : pro-industry irrespective of environmental effect except insofar as circumventing protest) policy that Bobbie Jr. is attacking quite vigorously in this speech are spawns of the JBS and allied think tanks. For some time now these elements have been guiding conservative thought on enviromental issues. It could be argued that this speech IS a declaration of his thinking in the Kennedy issue. That remains to be seen. If so, I don't envy him. But, given what his Family have gone through, I suspect he's approaching these issues 'eyes wide open'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously they think about it, but I'm not sure how many of them today believe in a conspiracy, or - given the fact they're married with children, would speak out if they did. Considering the many ways in which people have shut Kennedys up, Bobby Jr. of all people, would probably rather turn a blind eye for his safety & the safety of his family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno, Nic. Seems to me the speech is full about talk of conspiracy. And he pulls no punches when it comes to naming those responsible. I think that in discussing the great presidents, Kennedy's name resounds the loudest simply because he jumps to Lincoln where one might expect him to name Kennedy. Instead he quotes Lincoln saying during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country I fear the bankers more."

The heading of the speech is "We must take America back"

In the first paragraph he talks about early poignant memories.

then...

"This is the worst environmental president we’ve had in American history."

"...the past four years as part of a deliberate concerted effort to eviscerate 30 years of environmental law"

"It’s a stealth attack."

"The White House has used all kinds of ingenious machinations to try to conceal..."

"But most insidiously, they have..."

"...teaching corporate polluters how to evade..."

"put a lobbyist of the American Petroleum Institute whose only job was to read all of the science from all the different federal agencies to make sure they didn’t say anything critical, to excise any critical statements."

"He was there to lie to the American public "

"to subvert the very laws they’re now charged with enforcing in order to enrich the president’s corporate pay masters."

"we have a negligent and indolent media...there is no such thing as a liberal media in the United States of America"

"there is a huge informational deficit in the red states"

"This is the subversion of our democracy."

then towards the end of the speech:

" And you know, as I said, you look at all the great political leaders in this country and the central theme is that we have to be cautious about, we have to avoid the domination of our government by corporate power.

Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another republican in his most famous speech ever warned America against the domination by the military industrial complex.

Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country I fear the bankers more."

Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of Fascism" and Benito Mussolini who had an insider’s view of that process said the same thing. Essentially he said that - he complained that Fascism should not be called Fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state of corporate power.

And we what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called Communism.

The domination of government by business is called Fascism." shades of Costner?

"I look at this White House and I ask myself - and this may be unfair - but I ask myself a lot of times, how did they get so many draft dodgers in one place? You know, the president, Dick Cheney five deferments; John Ashcroft, six deferments. Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Tom DeLay, all of their buddies. Dennis Hassert, Rush Limbaugh, well, you know, there are a lot of people who dodged the draft during the Vietnam War and I know a lot of them.

Most of them did it because they had moral qualms about that war.

But not these people.

These people love the war; they just wanted somebody else to fight it. And it occurs to me that the reason for that is that these are people who don’t understand the values that makes America worth fighting for. But America is worth fighting for and it’s worth dying for.

Those of us who know that it’s worth fighting for have to take it back now from those who don’t.

Thank you very much."

Edited September 21, 2005 by John Dolva

[Mark Stapleton]

FWIW, writer/producer Eric Hamburg has written about his attendance at a 40th anniversary of the Bay of Pigs event held in Cuba.  He mentions that one of those in attendance was the wife of noted historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr.  He says she spoke openly of her belief that the CIA killed Kennedy. Her companion on the trip? JFK's sister, Jean Kennedy Smith.  While this by no means indicates that the Kennedys as a family believe the CIA did it, it certainly indicates such theories are not repellent to them.  I think it's clear they keep their mouths shut for political reasons, and not because they endorse the lone nut theory..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat,

Very interesting tidbit. Arthur Schlesinger gave a lengthy interview on our national radio a few years back (not that long before he died) but unfortunately the assassination barely got a mention.

I hope you're right about Bobby's kids embracing the good fight.

[Mark Stapleton]

Dawn has sent me details of a speech made by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on 17 September 2005. He seems the sort of person who might be interested in discovering the truth about the assassination of JFK.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091705Z.shtml

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very eloquent and passionate speech indeed. Looks like RFK Jnr has the smarts of his old man. His argument about corporate interference--indeed capture--of the US Government--to the undeniable detriment of the wider citizenry--has great resonance. I've argued this point on other threads before but RFK Jnr's speech puts it neatly in a nutshell--allowing corporations to run the democratically elected Government can only end in disaster because the aspirations of the corporations differ greatly from the aspirations of the people. That's not to say corporations are bad, they're simply amoral and they shouldn't be running public policy.

His examples corporate sponsored environmental degradation in the US should be extremely worring for all Americans.

[Dawn Meredith]

I believe that the Kennedys DO think about and read about this issue. (There has been much written about JFK Jr on this point), but what CAN they do???

I will bet that they looked closely at the family of Dr Martin L. King, who were solidly behind the hearings to test the so-called sniper rifle, in 1997. The King family stated outright that they did not believe James Earl Ray killed MLK.

And this case had a judge who was informed and seeking the truth. Those hearings were my introduction to Judge Joe Brown.

But the powers that be were not about to allow TRUTH.

Brown was removed from the case. Ray died and the media made no mention of anything except that he was "the confessed killer of MLK". Media whore Posner was everywhere.

The problem folks is not the Kennedy family, the problem is that the media is still covering this up. And the quality of the media in the US on issues such as these has only become worse over time. RFK Jr. makes this point very eloquently.

Dawn

[John Simkin]

I believe that the Kennedys DO think about and read about this issue. (There has been much written about JFK Jr on this point), but what CAN they do???

What they could do is to hand over the material they have to a well respected journalist who could carry out a thorough investigation of the case.