Question for Gerry Hemming

[Tim Gratz]

Members of Hemming's group brought out the first evidence of the Soviet missiles in Cuba.

One could not have accomplished anything much more important than discovering the missiles before they were fully operational. His group deserves to be in the history books for that mission.

I also believe (and I gather it from sources not from GPH himself) that it was Hemming who tipped off the authorities to Masferrer's planned invasion of Haiti from Marathon, Florida.

No one in our government who was trying to overthrow Castro succeeded. That does not mean they should not be recognized for their efforts--or, in many cases, of course, criticized for extra-legal actions against Castro.

Al, I am sure you believe, as I do, that the greatest honor should be accorded police officers who give their lives in the line of duty. If they die in a gun battlle in which ther bad guys escape that does not mean their sacrifice should be minimized, does it? I think a police officer upon normal retirement should be accorded the highest plaudits even if he or she never solved a great crime, don't you?

[Pat Speer]

Al, I remember reading the posts where Gerry let on he'd been checking up on you, so I understand why you dislike him. Unlike some of the others you might compare him to, however, he was in the the soup in the sixties and seventies, waist-high in Cops, Cubans, and Criminals. He is the last known link to many avenues of assassination research, including Sturgis, Lorenz, Oswald, etc. I believe his presence is an asset here. That doesn't mean that you or anyone else should believe everything he says. But we should at least hear him out.

Gerry, did I read your post wrong or are you down on the Mellen book?

[Tim Gratz]

Pat, there are reasons why Gerry is indeed "down on the Mellen book". But I am quite sure he has not read it all yet. I am going to try to e-mail him the statements in the book attributed to him so he can comment on them. I do recommend that everyone buy and read Joan's book. She clearly spent seven years on it. I also recommend, for balance, people ought to read "American Grotesque", and read the closing arguments in the Garrison case (all available on-line). Of course, Joan's book includes: (a) evidence Garrison had discovered AFTER the trial; and ( even newer evidence Joan has discovered. I am sure we will spend much time here discussing the witnesses she has located and what they mean.

[Tim Gratz]

Dawn wrote (responding to a Hemming post):

As for your "named sources" Gus Russo and Sy Hersh? That they are both agents of disinformation has been long established in the research community.

From the on-line dictionary, definition of "disinformation agent": anyone who posts facts or opinions that differ from Dawn Meredith's opinions on the assassination.

Same dictionary, definition of spook: "Tim Gratz".

Always good for a few laughs!

[Mark Johansson]

Thank you for posting Tosh here. GPH was a second rate SOF who just happened to be in the right place at the right time and now he is being considered by so many as an important person of this period. I asked him a simple question a month or so ago. "What did you accomplish with your covert operations?" He never responded because he had nothing to share in the area of successes. Proving my point further. GPH is just another James Files that is trying to make a name for himself at the cost of a true investigation. A wanna-be who wants to go down in history as being important, when in truth, he couldn't cut it in whatever venture he chose. TRUTH HURTS, EH JER!

Al

Al

I agree with you regarding GPH but I disagree with you on Files.

Mark

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Members of Hemming's group brought out the first evidence of the Soviet missiles in Cuba.

That is Gerry Hemming's claim, though I've yet to see any confirmation for it.  [For instance, his HSCA deposition might have offered him an opportunity to substantiate the claim.]  Whereas, I have been able to determine other sources for such information, and they had nothing to do with Hemming whatsoever, despite his contrary assertions.  Moreover, between the capabilities provided by the U2  and the Corona satellite, HUMINT may have been helpful, but of secondary importance.

One could not have accomplished anything much more important than discovering the missiles before they were fully operational.  His group deserves to be in the history books for that mission.

Which may explain Hemming's claim.  Perhaps you could trouble Gerry to provide some basis for believing it to be true.

I also believe (and I gather it from sources not from GPH himself) that it was Hemming who tipped off the authorities to Masferrer's planned invasion of Haiti from Marathon, Florida.

"Believe" is the key word.  The distance between "believe" and "know" can be quite a gulf.

Since that act of ratting out Masferrer wouldn't have endeared Hemming to certain Cuban exile elements, one can imagine that Hemming might not be anxious to make that claim for himself.  One might also wonder why nothing untoward befell Hemming as a result, particularly since Rolando Masferrer wasn't known for his willingness to forgive such a betrayal. 

How odd, then, that instead of becoming a target for Masferrer's vengeance, Hemming ended up working for Mitch WerBell with Masferrer's nephew, Rolandito.  You may wish to double-check the veracity of your sources on this, Tim.  By all means, listen to everything, but believe nothing that cannot be independently verified.  That same caution should hold true for Hemming, too. 

No one in our government who was trying to overthrow Castro succeeded.  That does not mean they should not be recognized for their efforts--or, in many cases, of course, criticized for extra-legal actions against Castro.

Al, I am sure you believe, as I do, that the greatest honor should be accorded police officers who give their lives in the line of duty.  If they die in a gun battlle in which ther bad guys escape that does not mean their sacrifice should be minimized, does it?  I think a police officer upon normal retirement should be accorded the highest plaudits even if he or she never solved a great crime, don't you?

If deserved, yes.  If claimed without substantiation, what does one make of those who make such grandiose claims, and allude to much clandestine knowledge without actually divulging anything probative?  Again, the deposition for the HSCA may have provided Hemming with the perfect vehicle to place your foregoing assertions into the record, under oath.  That he refrained from making those claims then only renders questionable their veracity now. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ron Ecker]

Tim,

Did you buy Mellen's book somewhere, or were you given an advance copy? According to Amazon.com, it has not been released yet.

Ron

[Tim Gratz]

Ron, it is an advance copy for review purposes (we will review it in "Solares Hill" right around November 16th). Professor Mellen tells me there will be changes in the final book so I do not want to get into it too deeply until we see the final version.

There is a ton of material in the book that merits our discussion, however. Many of these topics deserve separate threads.

As stated elsewhere, I tthink it belongs in the library of every student of the assassination. But I think "American Grotesque" (although written in the late sixties or early seventies) should also be read to get a pro-Shaw perspective. The author sat through the entire trial.

One item of interest I learned in "A Farewell to Justice" is that "American Grotesque" was written by the person who later co-wrote "A Chorus Line".

Professer Mellen points out that the author of "American Grotesque" was close to Shaw. He was introduced to Shaw by the writer of "Midnight Cowboy" who was also a friend of Shaw. She has no information, however, that the author was a paid agent of the CIA or the FBI.

Professor Mellen would point out, rightly so, that the emphasis in her book is not the Shaw trial but subsequent information and evidence (some developed by her) that she asserts proves conclusively that Garrison was dead right (no pun intended about either his consciousness or his political leanings).

I think one test that will be interesting, IMO, is if her book converts a Garrison skeptic (or even an agnostic) into a believer.

[Gerry Hemming]

All

It would be foolish for me to attempt to decide who is or is not telling the truth in these matters.  From the beginning it has been my hope that I could accept whatever a person says, realizing that all have there own prejudicial way of seeing things, then take the infromation that is provided, digest it, investigate it further and come to my own conclusions.  For example if you have four eye witnesses to a crime you might find that they do not all agree on every detail.  It becomes the job of the investigator to look deeper into the information that is provided and follow the best leads.

From my standpoint, where I have found that Gerry Hemming has provided credible information was when he spoke about the role of Korean War Rangers.  His knowledge about this little known group of persons who became a major part of unconventional warfare lore was right on the money with my own independently gathered infromation.

I will continue to read and evaluate every poster that takes the time to provide information to this forum.  I am not interested in engaging in disputes that deal with who is or is not credible except in a collegial manner.

By the way, maybe Walker had the window open because it was July 4th, in the Dallas heat and he did not have air conditioning.....rather than "living quite recklessly" seems kind of normal for 1963 in Dallas, Texas for a person "too cheap to buy air conditioning units." (Walker had resigned from the military and in so doing had given up his pension.  From my research of his life, it seems Walker had very little income at this time.  His pension was,years later, reinstated in an interesting manner)

Jim Root

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

That is a commendable post.

- lee

---------------------------------

Great Scott: Here I erroneously thought that Ms. Congeniality was still holding her breath and threatening to turn blue on us. Girl ! Does the truth really hurt, you really got me by the 'nads; which I am given to understand -- is one of your favorite areas of anatomical study.

I don't respond to "rent-a-pig" snitches anymore, and we do have more than just a few amongst the CT "Community??" The Kazakh Jew was [and still is] a snitch for the NYPD B.O.S.S.; and still brags about "snitching-out" the JDL, and especially Maier Kahane's cohorts -- for years !! He got out of his latest drug bust by "cooperating" [ratting out some fellow Kazakhs -- he can't get inside the Gentile miscreant element].

Ed Arthur ["Glory No More" -- whata-howl, that bunch of crap !!] was a dispatched federal snitch, sent to spy on the exile groups; as were too many others. And now, like snitch Tosh: They would lay claim to some part of the JFK infamy.

Thanks Tosh for reminding me about "filming". You see folks, there was no filming, just taped interviews; but now I recall that [mayhaps a "Tosh" impersonator/doppleganger??] at about that same time I was on the Beach to do a hour+ video-tape with Mark Lane. And Tosh is most likely pissed because; when Lane inquired as to Plumley's bona fides; I clued him in on the reality of his being a dispatched snitch -- which, without a doubt, Lane repeated same back to him, just to stir up the usual pot -- which he is famous for. Musta reawwy hurt da feelins' of poor widdle Tooshie !!

How come Brad Ayers doesn't remember "Tooshie" running around with Roselli way back when ??

How come NOBODY recalls "Tooshie" running around anywhere ??

I could be wrong, but my NARA "Gurus" have NOT found a scrap of paper at College Park which connects our "Mr. Single-Engine-Land-Pilot" to anything whatsoever !! I know it is a bitter pill to swallow when you have been taken in by a con-artist, really hurts, doesn't it !! Get over it, and get a life. Enough of this "idolizing-crap" -- it just so happens that, along with Ms. "snitch-leftenant", there are a world full of rectal orifices who want their "15 seconds of fame".

I have tired of [many years ago] of clowns who wear out ZEROX machines, hooking up actual LHM logo 'd pages with their own typed out bullxxxx "documents". Sorry girls, but way back then the FBI "indented" 10 spaces, and so your forgeries have failed to fly !!

As to my recounting "successful" covert Ops & other "secret missions"; there were just a few, and that is measured by the fact that Fidel has outlived a "gazillion" presidents and their lackeys. More importantly, I don't want to get some poison pen e-mails from Ms. Congeniality's boyfriend. You know, the kind that complain about "long hours and exhaustion/failure to perform". We know that [or is it a rumor??] that some snitches are known to make hard copy of Operator's missives, then they hide same inside their "girly-boy-hunk" magazines when they go to the latrine to "choke-the-chicken".

As for "law-suiting" the penniless Ms. "whore-about-town" Lorenz !! Get real. The Kazakh Jew no doubt retains the [federal law violating] tapes/transcripts wherein he asked me if it was "OK" to coach Marita Lorenz into inserting my name into the phony caravan story. I replied that I didn't gives a rat's ass, and thus it could [libel/slander-wise] indicate my "assent" to same. Maybe the "night-watch/rent-a-pig/snitch" could convince the Kazakh to modify most of his "Nodules" [i call them "Roids"] wherein he has GPH [his ol' penniless buddy] directing traffic all around Dealey Plaza and Langley !!

The Kazakh would no doubt call upon his "pie-hurling" cohorts to lawyerize Ms. Lorenz, just so he could lay his hands on a 4 inch stack of subpoenas from the court clerk, and thereafter hound everybody [including the "Hitler-Jugend" Pope] to death with phony depositions.

As for citing to Jennings and others "dearly departed" ?? -- I made no citations to Jennings personally when exposing snitch "Tooshie"!! And, this is directed to the Lady Mac Beth public defender, who must have been much "too-busy" to check out the below mentioned posting last January, when Jennings was still with a pulse, in comments as to snitch "Tooshie".

James: The photo you sent privately is not Ponce de Leon, but one Roy Bryant, another of the Sturgis Op-40 guys who I inherited after the BOP. Roy, along with ex-French Foreign Legion veteran [sergt-Chef Francois Schirm] left us during late Summer 1961; just before we started the training cycle for the 30th of November exile folks. By the way, in the Morgan article [Miami Herald] posted by Gratz, the one other interviewee [Hiram Gonzalez] was one of our prime conduits inside the Habana Uruguay embassy; that is after he escaped from La Cabana Prison dressed as a female visitor. We picked him up during the "Camarioca Boatlift" [1965] when he couldn't make the pickup by the USS Oxford (AGTR-1). He has since become a real estate/homebuilder "Mogul" in Miami.

The Captain of the Port at Camarioca [Tammany] later joined Che in the Congo, and later died alongside "Vilo" Acuna and "Tanya" in Bolivia. He was one of our valued assets. "Vilo" was one of the first campesinos to join Fidel after the 1956 Niquero/Belic landing of the Granma. He is terribly missed.

Too bad Felix couldn't communicate directly with Angleton's "Rep" [CIA/DCOS Am-Embassy Uruguay -- a Cuban American] in time to countermand xxxxhead Banzer's "5000-order" to murder Che. But, then again, Gary Prado, Banzer, and ALL other parties paid the ultimate for that crime !! Felix had orders to take Che alive !! The SF "B" Team leader [who trained the Bolivian Rangers] "Pappy" Shelton went on to become Chairman, Joint Chiefs, under "Slick-Willy" Clinton.

What amazes me is that the minority view of Sy Hersh, the guy who broke the My Lai 'Nam "Massacre" scandal, is that even after exposing the Spec/Ops Iran teams this year -- he is now labeled somehow as a CIA "Disinfo-Dude" !! Y'all don't like Gus Russo's disagreeable LN & "Fidel-dood-it" views, tough-titty -- prove him wrong, I have !!

As for the "alleged" [and phony] references to Hargraves' inculpating statements during the Twyman interviews ?? Bullxxxx, ALL interviews were done at my brother's law offices, and he holds the originals. So, if you have some toilette paper forgeries, present them, and my Bro' will correct your gullible minds.

In closing, I would greatly appreciate that the "girly-boy" snitches address me as "MISTER- wannabe-right place/right time-lowlife-SOF"; that is: If it would NOT be too much of an imposition ?!!

Now, I will get back to watching Hurricane Rita chew-up the Texican/Cajun landscape.

Gerry Hemming

----------------------------------------

Tosh Plumlee, James Files & Chancey Holt

Gerry Hemming Posted on: Jan 24 2005, 10:41 AM

My last encounter with Plumlee was on the telephone last year, and it was non-productive to say the least. The last time I met with him was in Miami Beach (1998) when Gus Russo and I were busy doing investigations for the Peter Jennings/ABC/Seymour Hersh/ "Dark Side Of Camelot" production. I made a few thousand dollars on that job, and the only annoying experience was to have to listen to Plumlee (eagerly lapping-up acceptance & approval) spin his well-worn and obviously phony tales of his legendary (In-His-Own-Mind!!) "Terry & The Pirates" escapades!!

Just like your guy Files - TOTAL BULLxxxx!! Just like Chauncy Holt -- TOTAL HORSExxxx!!

Absolutely nobody in "The Joint" - "The Pen" -- "The Chain Gang" -- "The Gaol" etc., etc., spill-the-beans on ANYBODY'S criminal acts, not even his own - without getting his canary-ass "Shanked" [stabbed with a knife]; because his fellow Cons would put out a 2 carton of cigarettes murder contract on him "toot-sweet"!!

I have read "Plumlee's Interviews, PDFs on FBI, etc. "Files"; and they are totally worthless collection of fantasy-land scrivening.

Firstly, the CIA/DEA/Customs Service/FBI only hire contract pilots who are previously MILITARY PILOTS!! Moreover, they only hire "Rated" pilots, preferably those with the highest category ATP (was ATR) "Airline Transport Pilot". A "Rated" pilot is one who holds a certification to fly aircraft which weigh more than 12,500 Lbs; such as the DC-3, DC-4, etc.!

Plumlee started out as a "Private Pilot" (less than 200 hours flight experience) during the 1960s. Now, some 40+ years later, he has a "Commercial" designation (only +200 hours flight time and passing a written exam and check ride is needed.)

So, what does he have now in the 21st Century? "Commercial" with "A.S.E.L." -- "Airplane - Single Engine - Land". Where is his "Multi-Engine Ticket"? Where is his "Instrument Ticket"? Check with Brad Ayers, he has all of the above since the early 1960s. (During the 1960s, Brad ran a company styled as "AyerVentures" at the old "Tamiami Airport, Miami, Florida".

The majority of pilots I flew with (some were Air America, C.A.T., CIA, etc.) possess "A.S.M.-E.L &S." (Airplane-Single & Multi-Engine Land & Sea), together with a wallet full of separ-ate licenses exhibiting "Ratings" in Turbo and pure Jet, heavy aircraft of all types, includ-ing commercial airline models; and also hold foreign pilot licenses from a dozen different countries around the Globe.

One of my last flying partners held just about every category and rating existing, including Hot-Air Balloon (Instructor), Aircraft Mechanic (A & P, E & E, Hydraulic, etc.), Rotorary-Wing Instructor (Helicopters - even one that was + 12,500 Lbs.).

No way Delta Airlines would have given him "The-Time-Of-Day"!! No way he would have manned the right-seat (Co-Pilot) in a DC-3 without a "Rating".

Lastly, the aviation outfits (including CIA proprietaries) carry insurance - and no way would Plumlee get insurance cover with his meager "Comm/Pilot - A.S.E.L." !!

More importantly, "Covert Ops" are always compartmentalized, so there is no way an individual operator can know even 2% of any given mission !!

"Velly Strange" that within a week of my informing Chris Cox as to my heavy doubts about Plumlee's veracity RE: his legendary and heroic tales - that he informed the UK/Forum that he was "bowing out"; his last communication, and I guess that he then "Exited Stage-Left"??!!

------------------------------------------------

[Gerry Hemming]

Members of Hemming's group brought out the first evidence of the Soviet missiles in Cuba.

That is Gerry Hemming's claim, though I've yet to see any confirmation for it.  [For instance, his HSCA deposition might have offered him an opportunity to substantiate the claim.]  Whereas, I have been able to determine other sources for such information, and they had nothing to do with Hemming whatsoever, despite his contrary assertions.  Moreover, between the capabilities provided by the U2  and the Corona satellite, HUMINT may have been helpful, but of secondary importance.

One could not have accomplished anything much more important than discovering the missiles before they were fully operational.  His group deserves to be in the history books for that mission.

Which may explain Hemming's claim.  Perhaps you could trouble Gerry to provide some basis for believing it to be true.

I also believe (and I gather it from sources not from GPH himself) that it was Hemming who tipped off the authorities to Masferrer's planned invasion of Haiti from Marathon, Florida.

"Believe" is the key word.  The distance between "believe" and "know" can be quite a gulf.

Since that act of ratting out Masferrer wouldn't have endeared Hemming to certain Cuban exile elements, one can imagine that Hemming might not be anxious to make that claim for himself.  One might also wonder why nothing untoward befell Hemming as a result, particularly since Rolando Masferrer wasn't known for his willingness to forgive such a betrayal. 

How odd, then, that instead of becoming a target for Masferrer's vengeance, Hemming ended up working for Mitch WerBell with Masferrer's nephew, Rolandito.  You may wish to double-check the veracity of your sources on this, Tim.  By all means, listen to everything, but believe nothing that cannot be independently verified.  That same caution should hold true for Hemming, too. 

No one in our government who was trying to overthrow Castro succeeded.  That does not mean they should not be recognized for their efforts--or, in many cases, of course, criticized for extra-legal actions against Castro.

Al, I am sure you believe, as I do, that the greatest honor should be accorded police officers who give their lives in the line of duty.  If they die in a gun battlle in which ther bad guys escape that does not mean their sacrifice should be minimized, does it?  I think a police officer upon normal retirement should be accorded the highest plaudits even if he or she never solved a great crime, don't you?

If deserved, yes.  If claimed without substantiation, what does one make of those who make such grandiose claims, and allude to much clandestine knowledge without actually divulging anything probative?  Again, the deposition for the HSCA may have provided Hemming with the perfect vehicle to place your foregoing assertions into the record, under oath.  That he refrained from making those claims then only renders questionable their veracity now. 

----------------------------

When you have the time?? You might go to the website and re-read the "229" pages of my HSCA "testimony??" You might notice that we started around 11:00 AM and finished up around 6:00 PM that evening. My brother says 7 & 1/2 hours. Even reading stutteringly slow, 229 pages can't be stretched for 7+ hours. I later signed [per the law] a corrected copy of the transcript, and it was then paged at +600 pages. During 1988, Sylvia Chase, then of KRON/TV San Francisco, lied to me in stating that she had the FULL copy of said deposition. When she arrived with her camera crew, she was able to only produce the 2-page "Index", part of which was redacted. I said "screw you" and walked out.

Despite knowing that the HSCA was another WC type farce, I did include some of the pertinent facts RE: the "Missile Crisis", amongst much more interesting items. Call Fonzi, and he will tell you how many times both he and Joe Gonzalez were told to leave the hearing room -- because they were NOT "cleared" !! [Gonzalez (NYPD) was fired from the HSCA staff shortly thereafter]

Corona was having mucho problemas with the C-119 "Flying Boxcar" capsule-snatch retrieval process, and wasn't available during the Summer of 1962.

Generals Lemay and Powers were interferring with the U-2 overflights, McCone was off in the "love-nest"; and the phonied-up history BS says that there was TOO MUCH cloud coverage for good Land-KH pix. Ask Bill Turner why my ex-Marine Colonel commandin officer [then at NAS Boca Chica, Key West] sent up 4 F-4 Phantom jockeys [with Cuba charts] to Nellie's -- looking to verify the actuals against the decoys. [2 front-seaters & 2 GIBS/WSOs] Costner is still pissed off that O'Donnell lied to him {"13 Days" flick] throughout, and hid the fact that we lost 4 photo-recon fighters shot down by the Cubans the first week !! The families are even more pissed at the training accident BS tales from the White House at that time.

Our reports to Florida Governor Ferris Bryant and staff members of the "Johns Committee" [beginning in July 1962] is still held classified both at Langley and Tallahassee. I could give a rat's ass what some amateur scribbler says about the whole business, get a lawyer [if you can afford one] and file your own FOIA/PA challenges -- you might get lucky -- NOT !!

Get back to the books Sister !!

GPH

______________________________

[John Dolva]

I thing that Gerry choosing to be here is a fortunate thing. I get the impression that he is willing to share information. Like all humans he doesn't accept personal attack. I think if one has a problem with takes on events and data it's more constructive to couch it in those terms. To create unpleasant personalised atmospheres is anti truth. (As an aside, I think Tim to his credit has weathered some pretty discouraging times and hope he continues with his input. I reserve the right to differ on things with everyone and assume the same rights to everyone.)

My attitude re disinfo. It exists. It'd be wonderful if it didn't. It's existence is info in itself. Learn to recognise, decode and use it for what it is.

In saying that I am not naming ANYONE. I'm just speaking as an independent skeptic. The only person that I am not skeptical of is Jesus...ah hang on...my 8 year old daughter is pretty neat too.

[Pat Speer]

As for "law-suiting" the penniless Ms. "whore-about-town" Lorenz !!  Get real.  The Kazakh Jew no doubt retains the [federal law violating] tapes/transcripts wherein he asked me if it was "OK" to coach Marita Lorenz into inserting my name into the phony caravan story.  I replied that I didn't gives a rat's ass, and thus it could [libel/slander-wise] indicate my "assent" to same.  Maybe the "night-watch/rent-a-pig/snitch" could convince the Kazakh to modify most of his "Nodules" [i call them "Roids"] wherein he has GPH [his ol' penniless buddy] directing traffic all around Dealey Plaza and Langley !!

The Kazakh would no doubt call upon his "pie-hurling" cohorts to lawyerize Ms. Lorenz, just so he could lay his hands on a 4 inch stack of subpoenas from the court clerk, and thereafter hound everybody [including the "Hitler-Jugend" Pope] to death with phony depositions.

------------------------------------------------

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gerry, are you really saying that Weberman coached Lorenz? I remember noting that at one point in the evolution of her story you were in the caravan but that in later versions she made a point of saying you left the squad before the assassination. I always suspected she did this because you'd threatened to kick her lying teeth in. Did you in fact threaten her? Or am I just imagining that your nature might lead you to perform such an act, when confronted with a woman of such low repute telling such a troublesome story?

While I can understand Weberman's encouraging Ms. Lorenz to come forward with her story, as this would give his Hunt and Sturgis in Dallas scenario support, I fail to understand why he would want to throw you into the mix, and ask your permission to do so. I'm sorry if this sounds dumb. Are you accusing Weberman of manufacturing a story that would support his claims? If so, did he pay Lorenz to tell this story? And if so, did he offer you money to go along with it?

No harm intended. Just trying to understand your relationship with Lorenz and Weberman..

[Al Carrier]

Pat,

First of all, let GPH explain what he found out about me when he "checked up on me". It should be quite interesting since I don't think he could find his backside with both hands. So this has nothing to do with my opinion of the man. He has produced nothing substancial in regards to the assassination and succeeded in nothing when he was operational. The latter shows his operational level as only important in his own mind and/or recall. It is amazing how clear he is on issues that can longer be checked and then silent on issues from the same period that could prove to be an adavancement on this period.

GPH was a self-proclaimed important figure of the time and associated with others like him that wouldn't be considered for serious operational level status. A bunch of derelicts that were dangerous in their own minds.

Tosh knows about me and if he knows enough, probably doesn't like me much. But If the latter is true, then he should at least respect my educated opinion considerably more than that of GPH.

Tim, Do not pratronize me by making comparisons with LE officers and the likes of Hemming. I am not basing this on my background in LE and if you were an investigator, you would see what I was basing it on.

I am of the minority in evaluating the value of GPH since most are willing to try and filter through his anti-sematic jibberish and find some sense into what he is saying. Most also see importance in his association with like derelicts who would not have been trusted by the government pass mail, let alone carry off intelligence backed operations. To believe they were so desperate as to trust these individuals as sad in my opinion.

Al

[Tim Gratz]

Al wrote:

[Gerry Hemming] has produced nothing substancial [sic] in regards to the assassination and succeeded in nothing when he was operational.

Al, understand, please, that I have had numerous telephonic conferences with Gerry Hemming and it is my assessment that he is an extremely intelligent individual with an amazing memory. His intelligence often comes through in his written postings.

It was Mr. Hemming who identified Silvia Odios's visitors as Angelo Murgado (now Angelo Kennedy) and Bernardo de Torres. Because many have problems with Mr. Hemming's credibilty, that is why I was so pleased that Professor Mellen had interviewed Angelo and confirmed exactly what Mr. Hemming said.

It was Mr. Hemming who introduced Professor Mellen to Angelo Kennedy.

The identification of Odios' visitors may very well be one of the most significant developments in assassinatyion research in years.

Obviously some things that Mr. Hemming says come not from his personal knowledge but from what others in intelligence operations have told him. In those cases, of course, his information is only as good as his source is accurate and truthful.

But Hemming has also identified, from his working with the man, the Mexico City mystery man, a second development that may very well prove as significant as his identification of Odio's visitors.

The substantiality of either of those identifications can scarcely be exaggerated.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Gerry Hemming]

Al wrote:

[Gerry Hemming] has produced nothing substancial [sic] in regards to the assassination and succeeded in nothing when he was operational.

Al, understand, please, that I have had numerous telephonic conferences with Gerry Hemming and it is my assessment that he is an extremely intelligent individual with an amazing memory. His intelligence often comes through in his written postings.

It was Mr. Hemming who identified Silvia Odios's visitors as Angelo Murgado (now Angelo Kennedy) and Bernardo de Torres.  Because many have problems with Mr. Hemming's credibilty, that is why I was so pleased that Professor Mellen had interviewed Angelo and confirmed exactly what Mr. Hemming said. 

It was Mr. Hemming who introduced Professor Mellen to Angelo Kennedy.

The identification of Odios' visitors may very well be one of the most significant developments in assassinatyion research in years.

Obviously some things that Mr. Hemming says come not from his personal knowledge but from what others in intelligence operations have told him.  In those cases, of course, his information is only as good as his source is accurate and truthful.

But Hemming has also identified, from his working with the man, the Mexico City mystery man, a second development that may very well prove as significant as his identification of Odio's visitors.

The substantiality of either of those identifications can scarcely be exaggerated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Tim:

That is twice now that the "snitch-rent-a-pig" has spelled it as "sematic" (sic). As for "checking-up" on Ms. Congeniality, he is just making a "limp-wristed" attempt at identifying who amongst his working colleagues and associates is badmouthing him, and if it is somebody lower on the food chain, she would love to impose a chastisement. Otherwise, there is absolutely nothing to be found with this snitch, other than attendance at a few wing-nut forums during November pasts.

As for the "derelicts" remarks, they are straight out of news accounts which were generated by Justin Gleichauf ["00" Domestic Contacts/Overt MIA/CIA] and he was later disciplined by Angleton for his use of journalistic cover assets, that included Dom Bonafede of the Miami Herald [AM/CARBON-4]. JJA later reminded us of the standard order for the InterPen elements [his titled groups modeled after his mentor in the Haganah days, Orde Wingate]; "...keep a low profile...no River Kwai plantations or traceable funding...and keep putting dye in the water for counter/Intel purposes..."

The then Broward County Sheriff was then, and is today, a CIA asset [it didn't stop with Nick Navarro, Felix's hometown buddy of Piragua fame & "Cops-TV"]; and the "vagrancy statute" was widely used to harass targets, even it was overturned by the US Supreme Court in the Jacksonville case. It stopped after large judgements were issued [via 18 US Code Section 1983, et seq.] and the taxpayers quickly tired of this primarily anti-Negro tool. Before that, even if you had 4 $100 bills in your pocket on Miami Beach, you could be busted for "vagrancy".

"Derelicts", sure...we inherited some from the post-BOP Op-40 Sturgis group, but they were soon driven off by the mosquitos and diet of rye bread [Adolph's Bakery on Flagler Street]. The Micosukee Indians who gave us Everglades support loved that "day-old" rye bread, so we dropped a few bags every trip along the Tamiami Trail out to 40 Mile Bend.

"Derelicts??" One ex-77th SF Group veteran retired from 25 years in the Middle-East during the '90s,

two others are now with Homeland Security, others have been recalled to active duty and are serving here at Bragg, or in the OIF/OEF AOR. [others are deceased or after years in Fidel's Gulags, have slipped into obscurity]

I identified Bernie de Torres even after both Gene Propper & Gaeton Fonzi [held to NDAs they signed]

used code-words when referring to him. [see "Labyrinth" ("TB") & "Carlos" (The Last Investigation) for reference] One of our guys was dispatched to Dealey Plaza that week by Colonel Arturo Espaillat, who was then based in Montreal. A month later, he recounted said "mission" to me after too many beers, and was furious at having been used once again by Robert Emmett Johnson, the "Raul" of the MLK, Jr. matter.

"Correcto" sister !! I am not about to name some of the guys or gals that are still breathing, and it is based on the treatment delivered so far by the likes of the "sematic" (sic) Kazakh Jews like Weberman, Dankbaar, et al.; and most assuredly not to be used as fodder by snitch rent-a-pigs from Iowa.

"Self-proclaimed??" Faggot Hoover fingered us for the WC Report, and Weberman continues to carry out his "assignment" from the moles in the Intel & LE Community !!

During the rare interviews post 1967, I answered only those questions posed, and limited same to what could be safely disclosed at the time. No "volunteering" of interviews ever occurred, and some scribblers went away mad [like Dorschner of the MIA/Herald] and later attempted scrivener's retribution. When Freddie Forsythe came nosing around, he was dispatched to visit Espaillat in Montreal, and that sent him to Skorzeny in Lisbon -- and thereafter came "Jackal" the book & movie.

So, all of the "sisters" should keep their panties dry, and try to abstain from this series of silly-girl postings on this very important forum !!

As for Weberman "coaching??". Affirmative, and he did this with CIA/US Customs snitch Steve Sczukas, who was baby-sitting the whore during the time of Sturgis' fury with her. Sczukas is the same terrorist who attempted to "borrow" several Ingram M-10s (silenced/suppressed) from my Parabellum Corp. business partner, and these were to be used to initiate firefight slaughters at one of the 1972 National Conventions. He was particularly interested in our attache-case M-11 (.380 cal.) unit for said massacre. By the way, a similar weapon was on the scene in Dealey Plaza, but no details are available as to where, who, and if it was even utilized. [for the uninitiated, the Ingrams are now sold as "MAC-10s"] I have no evidence of exactly how much money Weberman handed to Lorenz [or Sczukas], but he hinted that this was the case.

THAT'S ALL FOLKS !!

GPH

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"What, Me worry" Alfred E. Neumann, 1953.

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