David Boylan Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Hall seems to know quite a bit of detail. Amazing how he puts Martino, Robertson, Roselli, Trafficanate and Giancana all together. He spent a week with Trafficante in Trescornia. He says that the original plan was a Fidel assassination but that Rip Robertson took it over and it became what we know as Operation Tilt. He was in Logue's office where "Jack" offered him $50,000 to assassinate JFK. Jack was Jeb Rose of Rose trucking. Hotel meeting. The Russian defectors were bogus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Given Hall's well known practice of expanding on his contacts I'm not sure I find his name dropping strange. Beyond that Martino was very visible in the papers and media and various folks like Tosh Plumlee were weaving him into their own stories as an attempt at corrboration. I can say from working with Martino's family that unlike people like Vidal, Sturgis and Robertson, Hall was not a regular contact with Martino and Martino himself was irate about Trafficante because he felt he had set him up to be jailed in Cuba for not paying dues ad part of Trafficante's network. On the other hand Hall does appear to have been one of the early characters being fed the stories about Russian missile technicians in Cuba - which do appear to have been a scam to get support for sending in an armed team, so that part may very well be the most reliable element of his testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 New show from Campbell. Figured this was a relevant place to post? #177 (RE-MIX!) December 1, 2020: "From The Bay Of Pigs To Dealey Plaza: Rip Robertson, Operation TILT, And The JFK Hit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) Is there a place to download a copy of Loran Hall's HSCA testimony? (NARA Record Numbers: 180-10118-10115 and 180-10118-10125) I'm afraid I can't afford a Mary Farrell membership right now. Thanks. Edited December 8, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 12/7/2020 at 2:23 PM, David Andrews said: Is there a place to download a copy of Loran Hall's HSCA testimony? (NARA Record Numbers: 180-10118-10115 and 180-10118-10125) I'm afraid I can't afford a Mary Farrell membership right now. Thanks. I'd ask Doug Campbell or @Rob Clark David. He has a great deal of focus on Loran Hall and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew exactly where to locate the document. I mean hopefully someone here can provide you with a copy asap but certainly Campbell and @Rob Clark are worth asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: I'd ask Doug Campbell or @Rob Clark David. He has a great deal of focus on Loran Hall and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew exactly where to locate the document. I mean hopefully someone here can provide you with a copy asap but certainly Campbell and @Rob Clark are worth asking. Thank you, B. A. I'd like a .pdf that I could mark up. Edited December 10, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 21 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: I'd ask Doug Campbell or @Rob Clark David. He has a great deal of focus on Loran Hall and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew exactly where to locate the document. I mean hopefully someone here can provide you with a copy asap but certainly Campbell and @Rob Clark are worth asking. This is some fodder for perusal.... http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Hall Loran Eugene/ https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tQE0ik-3oribP187Nhwgr2lx2Z-hRxVn This is what you asked about....You'll have to print it out to mark it up.... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60422#relPageId=1&tab=page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Rob : Thanks for the additional material. Unfortunately, no complete HSCA testimony transcripts within. In Hall's case, these would be c. 2MB files for each HSCA appearance, 100+ pages each. If one can get testimony as a .pdf, there's a yellow markup tool in most .pdf readers, like Adobe, and one can just save the marked up file. That's why I don't want to spend days printing page images available free on MF. Even if one thinks Hall's tale of getting seed money from Traficante and Giancana is suspect, there's still a lot of useful Bayo-Pawley raid info in Hall's testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) On 12/10/2020 at 9:56 AM, Rob Clark said: This is some fodder for perusal.... http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Hall Loran Eugene/ https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tQE0ik-3oribP187Nhwgr2lx2Z-hRxVn This is what you asked about....You'll have to print it out to mark it up.... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60422#relPageId=1&tab=page Thanks Rob and my pleasure David. Edited January 6, 2021 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 12/7/2020 at 4:23 PM, David Andrews said: Is there a place to download a copy of Loran Hall's HSCA testimony? (NARA Record Numbers: 180-10118-10115 and 180-10118-10125) I'm afraid I can't afford a Mary Farrell membership right now. Thanks. On 12/7/2020 at 4:23 PM, David Andrews said: Is there a place to download a copy of Loran Hall's HSCA testimony? (NARA Record Numbers: 180-10118-10115 and 180-10118-10125) I'm afraid I can't afford a Mary Farrell membership right now. Thanks. David, Here's 180-10118-10125 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60423&search=180-10118-10125#relPageId=1&tab=page Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Butler Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 180-10118-10115 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60422 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Irrespective of Hall, it should be noted that we have a huge amount of information on the actual initiation of the TILT project, in particular the role of Martino, and much more importantly that of William Pawley in his outreach to both JC King and Shackley at WAVE. The exchanges between Pawley and Shackley are documented as are objections of CIA security over the very late inclusion of Pawley's selected Cuban volunteers (only accepted because Pawley himself paid for them and forced the issue), the inclusion of Bayo (who a security check showed had previously scammed the CIA with a similar proposal), and the inclusion of LIFE magazine - also brokered by Pawley but approved by King. All demonstrating that the op was as much of a political action to Pawley and King as it was in any sense a true intelligence action. We also have the extensive mission debrief document, and finally Shackley's self serving admission that although the CIA had been fooled, it was a good thing because it had impressed Pawley and influential Senators that the CIA was very responsive and "cooperative". All this is referenced in Tipping Point, much of it was in SWHT and David Boylan no doubt could provide document references at great length. If anyone wants the real history and details of the operation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: David, Here's 180-10118-10125 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60423&search=180-10118-10125#relPageId=1&tab=page Steve Thomas Thanks, Steve, but I can't afford the membership. I was just hoping there were loose .pdf copies floating around. Edited January 7, 2021 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: Irrespective of Hall, it should be noted that we have a huge amount of information on the actual initiation of the TILT project, in particular the role of Martino, and much more importantly that of William Pawley in his outreach to both JC King and Shackley at WAVE. The exchanges between Pawley and Shackley are documented as are objections of CIA security over the very late inclusion of Pawley's selected Cuban volunteers (only accepted because Pawley himself paid for them and forced the issue), the inclusion of Bayo (who a security check showed had previously scammed the CIA with a similar proposal), and the inclusion of LIFE magazine - also brokered by Pawley but approved by King. All demonstrating that the op was as much of a political action to Pawley and King as it was in any sense a true intelligence action. We also have the extensive mission debrief document, and finally Shackley's self serving admission that although the CIA had been fooled, it was a good thing because it had impressed Pawley and influential Senators that the CIA was very responsive and "cooperative". All this is referenced in Tipping Point, much of it was in SWHT and David Boylan no doubt could provide document references at great length. If anyone wants the real history and details of the operation.... Larry, can you clarify here? Who would have gone in on this mission to exfiltrate Russian scientists/assassinate Castro if not Bayo and Pawley's hired Cubans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 David, honestly I wish I could just persuade people to read the material that we have collected and written on this - it gives a far fuller picture than I can paint here (and would make me feel better about doing all that work). But to clarify, Pawley was the driver behind the mission, lobbying King and Shackley for support. That support ultimately consisted of a number of CIA paramilitary officers, as well as maritime mission planning, communications coordination between the various boats and aircraft and even the assignment of one of the two CIA "ghost ships" to provide radar overwatch. Th Cuban volunteers were provided by Pawley - with Bayo a very last minute addition - and did receive some minimal security vetting. However when the CIA raised concerns about them, about Bayo and to having a LIFE photographer on the mission Pawley successfully pushed back, telling Shackley they were his employees and he would be responsible for them (he may have been a bit cautions himself since their weapons were not issued until late in the mission). I don't know exactly what I said to suggest otherwise but the mission members did include Pawley's "employees", Martino, Bayo and CIA PM officers. As to who else could have been sent - it if truly been a normal CIA maritime mission the Cuban's would have been from vetted and experienced WAVE PM cadre, people paid off the WAVE budget and working for Robertson or the other PM officers...in this instance they were not, WAVE was essentially supporting a private mission into Cuba - a violation of all standing Presidential directives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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