Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument"William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 Who could you possibly be talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 A mirror might help here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 Who could you possibly be talking about? William Gibbs McAdoo (Jr.) Secretary of State (1913 to 1918) to President Woodrow Wilson Married: Elanor Randolph Wilson on may 7, 1914, in the Blue Room of the White House aka/Son-in-Law of President Woodrow Wilson First Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board First Chairman of the Pan-American Joint High Commission Children by previous marriage to Sarah Houstoun Fleming included: 1. Nona Hazlehurst McAdoo ________________________________________________________________________________ ________ Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes--because I am more or less of a French orientation. And when I became an American citizen, I did not like the prefix "Von" which is German to the average person. And so we used "De" which is equally used in Sweden or in the Baltic States, interchangeably. And my uncle, who was here in the States for quite some time, and died here---- Mr. JENNER. I was going to ask you about him. You might as well give his full name. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Ferdinand De Mohrenschildt. Mr. JENNER. I will digress for a moment. Ferdinand De Mohrenschildt was some officer, or had a connection with the Russian Embassy here in Washington? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that, please. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he was First Secretary of the Czarist Embassy, the last Czarist Embassy here in Washington. He married McAdoo's daughter. Mr. JENNER. William Gibbs McAdoo's daughter. She is now Mrs. Post. Is she still alive? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; she is still alive. Mr. JENNER. Do you recall her first name? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Nona. Mr. JENNER. Your uncle is deceased? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He is deceased; yes. Mr. JENNER. They were eventually divorced, were they not? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, sir; no--he died. They were never divorced. She was divorced many times--remarried and divorced many times. But he died--I guess in 1925 or 1924. Mr. JENNER. Sometimes people refer to you as Baron De Mohrenschildt. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Would you explain that? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't refer to myself as that, you know. But supposedly the family has the right to it, because we are members of the Baltic nobility. Mr. JENNER. Through what source? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Through the Swedish source, from the time of Queen Christina. But my father never used the title, because of his perhaps liberal tendencies. Neither did Ferdinand, I think. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----4. NONA HAZLEHURST McADOO born 08 June 1893 in New York, NY; married 1st FERDINAND de MOHRENSCHILDT a Russian diplomat in May 1917. One child. He died in 1919 ("He" being Ferdinand de Mohrenschildt) The one child being a daughter, Fernanda de Mohrenschildt, 1st Cousin of George De Mohrenschildt. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ In the event one desires to know more about Fernanda de Mohrenschildt, 1st Cousin to George De Mohrenschildt, then a visit to Magnolia Plantation, Charleston, SC, and Mrs. Fernanda (De Mohrenschildt) Hastie would be in order. Magnolia Plantation by: Gail Lang Beauty, enchantment, romance, history and grace --- you'll find all this at Magnolia Plantation. Its rich history and charm has transcended through the generations for all to share. Founded in 1676, Magnolia Plantation has been a landmark in Charleston, South Carolina for over 300 years. It is still under the ownership of the original family who care for the property with great love and pride. Magnolia Plantation is unique among historical gardens. The current owners, Drayton and Fernanda Hastie, take exceptional personal pride in their lands. Mrs. Hastie can often be seen with her basket lovingly clipping a favored flower. Mr. Hastie not only enjoys strolls with his dogs, but also participates in the day-to-day operation of the plantation. He has a great respect and reverence for both his lands and life itself. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ 2. William Gibbs McAdoo (III) WWI Naval Aviator* ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ * Available at University of Texas at Austin Texas War Records. Records, 1916-1931, 1940-1945; ca. 223 linear feet. Includes letters, telegrams, legal documents, reports, lists, lecture notes, and other material relating to Texas participation in World Wars I and II, such as the Air Service School for Radio Operators and the School of Military Aeronautics. William G. McAdoo was associated with the records. Finding aid available. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Tom P.S. Looked into the mirror---all that was seen was "fugly" and "old". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 -----4. NONA HAZLEHURST McADOO born 08 June 1893 in New York, NY; married 1st FERDINAND de MOHRENSCHILDT a Russian diplomat in May 1917. One child. He died in 1919. She married 2nd DR. EDWARD SPENCER COWLES of "Cowlesville," VA in 1928 in New York; married 3rd FRANCIS TAYLOR of NY; married 4th DARRAGH A. PARK. She & Sophie Meldrim Shonnard owned & operated an exclusive dress shop called "Chez Ninon" in NY (Files of Alice C. Tonge; notes & phone conversation with Fernanda de Mohrenschildt Hastie, Magnolia Plantation & Gardens, Charleston, SC). She died 17 October 1971 in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 Who could you possibly be talking about? No one in specific! I am merely somewhat fond of those "far-reaching" and highly intelligent quotes as made by obviously educated and intelligent persons. Particularly, those quotes which withstand the test of time. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 Who could you possibly be talking about? William Gibbs McAdoo (Jr.) Secretary of State (1913 to 1918) to President Woodrow Wilson Married: Elanor Randolph Wilson on may 7, 1914, in the Blue Room of the White House aka/Son-in-Law of President Woodrow Wilson First Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board First Chairman of the Pan-American Joint High Commission Children by previous marriage to Sarah Houstoun Fleming included: 1. Nona Hazlehurst McAdoo ________________________________________________________________________________ ________ Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes--because I am more or less of a French orientation. And when I became an American citizen, I did not like the prefix "Von" which is German to the average person. And so we used "De" which is equally used in Sweden or in the Baltic States, interchangeably. And my uncle, who was here in the States for quite some time, and died here---- Mr. JENNER. I was going to ask you about him. You might as well give his full name. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Ferdinand De Mohrenschildt. Mr. JENNER. I will digress for a moment. Ferdinand De Mohrenschildt was some officer, or had a connection with the Russian Embassy here in Washington? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that, please. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he was First Secretary of the Czarist Embassy, the last Czarist Embassy here in Washington. He married McAdoo's daughter. Mr. JENNER. William Gibbs McAdoo's daughter. She is now Mrs. Post. Is she still alive? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; she is still alive. Mr. JENNER. Do you recall her first name? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Nona. Mr. JENNER. Your uncle is deceased? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He is deceased; yes. Mr. JENNER. They were eventually divorced, were they not? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, sir; no--he died. They were never divorced. She was divorced many times--remarried and divorced many times. But he died--I guess in 1925 or 1924. Mr. JENNER. Sometimes people refer to you as Baron De Mohrenschildt. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Would you explain that? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't refer to myself as that, you know. But supposedly the family has the right to it, because we are members of the Baltic nobility. Mr. JENNER. Through what source? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Through the Swedish source, from the time of Queen Christina. But my father never used the title, because of his perhaps liberal tendencies. Neither did Ferdinand, I think. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----4. NONA HAZLEHURST McADOO born 08 June 1893 in New York, NY; married 1st FERDINAND de MOHRENSCHILDT a Russian diplomat in May 1917. One child. He died in 1919 ("He" being Ferdinand de Mohrenschildt) The one child being a daughter, Fernanda de Mohrenschildt, 1st Cousin of George De Mohrenschildt. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ In the event one desires to know more about Fernanda de Mohrenschildt, 1st Cousin to George De Mohrenschildt, then a visit to Magnolia Plantation, Charleston, SC, and Mrs. Fernanda (De Mohrenschildt) Hastie would be in order. Magnolia Plantation by: Gail Lang Beauty, enchantment, romance, history and grace --- you'll find all this at Magnolia Plantation. Its rich history and charm has transcended through the generations for all to share. Founded in 1676, Magnolia Plantation has been a landmark in Charleston, South Carolina for over 300 years. It is still under the ownership of the original family who care for the property with great love and pride. Magnolia Plantation is unique among historical gardens. The current owners, Drayton and Fernanda Hastie, take exceptional personal pride in their lands. Mrs. Hastie can often be seen with her basket lovingly clipping a favored flower. Mr. Hastie not only enjoys strolls with his dogs, but also participates in the day-to-day operation of the plantation. He has a great respect and reverence for both his lands and life itself. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ 2. William Gibbs McAdoo (III) WWI Naval Aviator* ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ * Available at University of Texas at Austin Texas War Records. Records, 1916-1931, 1940-1945; ca. 223 linear feet. Includes letters, telegrams, legal documents, reports, lists, lecture notes, and other material relating to Texas participation in World Wars I and II, such as the Air Service School for Radio Operators and the School of Military Aeronautics. William G. McAdoo was associated with the records. Finding aid available. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Tom P.S. Looked into the mirror---all that was seen was "fugly" and "old". 3.-----6. ROBERT HAZLEHURST McADOO born 23 November 1900 in Yonkers, NY; married 1st LORRAINE ARNOLD ROWAN on 25 December 1923 - no issue. She was the daughter of PRINCESS DOMENICO ORSINI of Rome, Italy. He attended Princeton & Babson Inst. in Wellesley, MA; Ensign, Naval Flying Corp. in WWI. He died 10 January 1937 in New York. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Name: Robert Hazelhurst MCADOO Given Name: Robert Hazelhurst Surname: McADOO 1 Sex: M Birth: 23 Nov 1900 in Yonkers, Westchester Co., NY 1 Death: 10 Jan 1937 in New York, New York Co., NY 1 _UID: BECBA2A1926347CFB84CD7778DC6EDA60F2B Change Date: 25 Jan 2002 Note: Ensign, Naval Flying Corps., WWI Father: William Gibbs MCADOO b: 31 Oct 1863 in Marietta, Cobb Co., GA Mother: Sarah Houstoun FLEMING Marriage 1 Lorraine Arnold ROWAN ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Cooper, John Sherman (1901-1991) — of Somerset, Pulaski County, Ky. Born in Somerset, Pulaski County, Ky., August 23, 1901. Son of John Cooper. Republican. Member of Kentucky state house of representatives, 1928-30; county judge in Kentucky, 1930-38; candidate for Governor of Kentucky, 1939; served in the U.S. Army during World War II; U.S. Senator from Kentucky, 1946-49, 1952-55, 1956-73; defeated, 1948, 1954; delegate to Republican National Convention from Kentucky, 1948, 1956, 1960; U.S. Ambassador to India, 1955-56; Nepal, 1955-56; East Germany, 1974-76. Baptist or Episcopalian. Member, American Bar Association; American Legion; Veterans of Foreign Wars; Rotary; Beta Theta Pi. Died of heart failure, in Washington, D.C., February 21, 1991. Interment at Arlington National Cemetery, Arlington, Va. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lorraine Arnold ROWAN Given Name: Lorraine Arnold Surname: ROWAN 1 Sex: F Note: Still Living. Mother: Domenico ORSINI Marriage 1 Thomas SHEVLIN Change Date: 25 Apr 2005 Marriage 2 John Sherman COOPER Change Date: 25 Apr 2005 Marriage 3 Robert Hazelhurst MCADOO b: 23 Nov 1900 in Yonkers, Westchester Co., NY Change Date: 25 Apr 2005 ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Hemming Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument"William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 ------------------------- Tom: I will use your #1 posting so that members don't have to re-scroll through all of that extensive research product contained in the follow-ups. During one of the luncheons at the "Petroleum Club" [or the "Texas Club"] in Dallas with Lester Logue, De Mohrenschildt joined us for coffee and made reference to me and Davy having met and briefed one of his relatives in Miami. He is Baron [whats-his-name] and was a leading member of the Miami JBS. He lived in an exclusive section of Coconut Grove, "The Landings" -- if I remember correctly. We both had been scheduled "by letter" to show BOP movies and/or pix, documents, or some such crap -- to the wealthy and politically connected JBS hierarchy. The day before the gathering in the "Grove", I asked Davy what was this crap about movies, etc. -- I thought that we were just going to give them insights on Comandos L, Felipe, Menoyo, et al. ??!! Davy said that he didn't know what the hell this was all about, but it was too late to back out -- so on with the original briefing "...and damn the torpedos !!" FOIA/PA reuests to FBI, etc. reference these folks was refused, and I just assumed that since one of the top-dog JBSers was later the Nixon appointed U.S. Attorney, they didn't want to go there with the "Grove" Baron and his nexus to De Mohrenschildt. Never seemed important at the time, save for the fact that one of those present at the briefing later asked us [during 1963] to meet with Morrisette (sp) who later was recorded as stating that JFK was being taken down with a rifle !! Anyway, we met with this KKK/Nazi clown, but refused to go inside the church to talk, because we suspected that is was bugged. No further contact with that asshole EVER !! Airborne, Gerry ________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 (edited) "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" William Gibbs McAdoo------1863--1941 ------------------------- Tom: I will use your #1 posting so that members don't have to re-scroll through all of that extensive research product contained in the follow-ups. During one of the luncheons at the "Petroleum Club" [or the "Texas Club"] in Dallas with Lester Logue, De Mohrenschildt joined us for coffee and made reference to me and Davy having met and briefed one of his relatives in Miami. He is Baron [whats-his-name] and was a leading member of the Miami JBS. He lived in an exclusive section of Coconut Grove, "The Landings" -- if I remember correctly. We both had been scheduled "by letter" to show BOP movies and/or pix, documents, or some such crap -- to the wealthy and politically connected JBS hierarchy. The day before the gathering in the "Grove", I asked Davy what was this crap about movies, etc. -- I thought that we were just going to give them insights on Comandos L, Felipe, Menoyo, et al. ??!! Davy said that he didn't know what the hell this was all about, but it was too late to back out -- so on with the original briefing "...and damn the torpedos !!" FOIA/PA reuests to FBI, etc. reference these folks was refused, and I just assumed that since one of the top-dog JBSers was later the Nixon appointed U.S. Attorney, they didn't want to go there with the "Grove" Baron and his nexus to De Mohrenschildt. Never seemed important at the time, save for the fact that one of those present at the briefing later asked us [during 1963] to meet with Morrisette (sp) who later was recorded as stating that JFK was being taken down with a rifle !! Anyway, we met with this KKK/Nazi clown, but refused to go inside the church to talk, because we suspected that is was bugged. No further contact with that asshole EVER !! Airborne, Gerry ________________________________ Hope that you were not of the impression that was all of it! ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Name: Annie Hahr Dobbs Given Name: Annie Hahr Surname: Dobbs Sex: F _UID: F823F042CFDDD511AEDAE0601FF39D30866A Note: Annie Hahr Dobbs Pawley attended Randolph-Macon in Virginia and Sophie Newcomb in New Orleans. During WWI she attended the National Service School in Washington DC. She married William Douglas Pawley of Port-au-Prince, Haiti, July 25, 1919. In 1925 they moved to Miami and then moved to Havana, Cuba, in 1928. They returned with their 3 children to Miami where their youngest child was born. The Pawleys then moved to Shanghai, China, with the baby, leaving their other children in Miami Beach with family. Mrs. Pawley lived in China until 1938 with periodic trips back to Miami. They were divorced in 1941, and Annie Hahr lived in her home at 3190 Pine Tree Drive, Miami Beach. She was ill for many years. Six grandchildren: Clifton Dobbs Pawley, Jr., Margaret Hahr Mckay, William Pawley Mckay, Douglas Graham Mckay, Irene Gravely West, and _______. One great-grandchild, Clifton Dobbs Pawley III. From The Miami News, Friday, 2 May, 1986, p. 3A Birth: 20 JAN 1898 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Death: 30 APR 1986 in Miami Beach, FL; USA Christening: Woodlawn Cemetery, Miami (Miami Beach ?) Father: Herbert Clifton Dobbs b: 14 JAN 1867 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Mother: Annie Von Schele Hahr b: 4 MAR 1870 in Warrenton, Warren Cnty, NC; USA Marriage 1 William Douglas Pawley b: 17 SEP 1896 in Florence, SC; USA Married: 25 JUL 1918 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Divorced: Children ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Name: Herbert Clifton Dobbs Given Name: Herbert Clifton Surname: Dobbs Sex: M _UID: FA23F042CFDDD511AEDAE0601FF39D30888A Note: Was in hardware business in Marietta, and owned the apartment house at 70 Sheridan Drive where they lived later in life. Birth: 14 JAN 1867 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Death: 27 JUL 1939 in Atlanta, GA; USA Burial: AFT 27 JUL 1939 City Cemetery,Marietta, Georgia, (adjacent to the Confederate cemetery), section 410 Note: Annie Hahr Dobbs and Cliff Dobbs are both buried in City Cemetery, Marietta, Georgia, (adjacent to the Confederate cemetery), section 410. (His sisters, Lilian E. Dobbs Finn (Yia), and Martha D. Smith (Auntie) are also buried in same cemetery, different section.) Event: Obituary Note: "Herbert Clifton Dobbs, Sr., 72, prominent retired businessman of Atlanta and Marietta, died Thursday morning at a private hospital after a short illnes. He lived at 10 Sheridan Drive, N.E. "Born at Marietta in 1862, Mr. Dobbs was the son of Confederate Major David Judson Dobbs and Martha Prothro Dobbs. In 1890 he married Miss Von Schele Hahr, of Atlanta. "Outstanding in business and social affairs of Marietta for 40 years, he was a charter member and one of othe principal builders of the First Baptist Church of that city. "He retired from active work in mercantile and other businesses about 15 years ago and made his home in Atlanta shortly afterwards. Surviving are his daughters, Mrs. Howard S. Mcnair, Montclair, N.J.; Mrs. William D. Pawley, Miami Beach; Mrs. Lillian D. Milner, also of Miami Beach, and Mrs. J. F. Wilson, Fielddale, VA; sons, Herbert Clifton Dobbs, Jr., Coral Gables, FL, and David Dobbs, Meridian, Mississippi; sisters, Mrs. L. D. Finn, Miami, and Mrs. Margaret Smith; a brother, Evan P. Dobbs, and 11 grandchildren. "Funeral services will be conducted at 5 p.m. Friday at the graveside, City Cemetery, Marietta." 1 Father: David Judson Dobbs b: 14 MAY 1835 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Mother: Martha Josephine Prothro b: 5 FEB 1834 in Aiken, Barnwell Cnty, GA; USA Marriage 1 Annie Von Schele Hahr b: 4 MAR 1870 in Warrenton, Warren Cnty, NC; USA Married: 22 DEC 1890 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Children Josephine Prothro Dobbs b: 5 NOV 1891 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Herbert Clifton Dobbs b: 27 AUG 1893 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Annie Hahr Dobbs b: 20 JAN 1898 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Lillian Elizabeth Dobbs b: 12 AUG 1899 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Franz Hahr Dobbs b: 30 JAN 1902 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA David Dobbs b: 25 JUL 1907 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Name: Annie Von Schele Hahr Given Name: Annie Von Schele Surname: Hahr Sex: F _UID: F523F042CFDDD511AEDAE0601FF39D30833A Note: Harwood Seminary, in Marietta, GA, established 1887, and "became well known in this part of the state for some years....Professor W.W. Legare, who came from Alabama, was the first principal. Professor Legare brought with him his three nieces, Selma, Annie, and Margaret Hahr, the first two of whom were among the faculty of the Seminary and who were later joined by a fourth sister, Emma. Fresh from her musical studies in Berlin which had been followed by a series of brilliant concerts in New York." From The first hundred years, a short history of Cobb County, Georgia, by Temple. p. 425 At the time of her marriage, Nannie was apparently living in Atlanta. Grandfather Dobbs' obituary says, "In 1890 he married Miss Von Schele Hahr, of Atlanta." (The Atlanta Georgian, July 27, 1939. p.16) Josephine Schutt, letter, 15 May 1995, says Nannie lived in Demopolis, Alabama, after her parents died. (Greene County) Birth: 4 MAR 1870 in Warrenton, Warren Cnty, NC; USA Death: 15 SEP 1961 in Atlanta, GA; USA OBJE: FORM: jpg FILE: C:\MyDocs\My Webs\images\persons\Dobbs\Annie_Hahr.jpg Title: Anne Von Schele Hahr Note: Anne Von Schele Hahr _SCBK: Y _PRIM: Y _TYPE: PHOTO Father: Franz Josef Carl Johan Hahr b: 1 JAN 1825 in Stockholm; Sweden Mother: Alice Mulvinal Hartman b: 28 APR 1841 in Fayetteville, Cumberland Cnty, NC; USA Marriage 1 Herbert Clifton Dobbs b: 14 JAN 1867 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Married: 22 DEC 1890 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Children Josephine Prothro Dobbs b: 5 NOV 1891 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Herbert Clifton Dobbs b: 27 AUG 1893 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Annie Hahr Dobbs b: 20 JAN 1898 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Lillian Elizabeth Dobbs b: 12 AUG 1899 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA Franz Hahr Dobbs b: 30 JAN 1902 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA David Dobbs b: 25 JUL 1907 in Marietta, Cobb Cnty, GA; USA ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Name: Franz Josef Carl Johan Hahr Given Name: Franz Josef Carl Johan Surname: Hahr Sex: M _UID: 3524F042CFDDD511AEDAE0601FF39D30C449 Note: After completing his education at Upsala and Stockholm Military ACademy in Sweden, his father, Adolf Hahr, gave him a trip to the USA as a present. He took the trip in 1849 along with his sister Hulda Josephine as his father thought that she would benefit from an ocean voyage. They set sail for America on a ship with a Captain Hammarskjold (related to Dag Hammarskjold?) who was investigating iron mines in Virginia for the Swedish government. Both he and his sister Hulda loved America. It is not known when Franz made the decision that he would decide to stay in America and not return to Sweden. His sister, however, returned to Sweden in 1858. He was the first Hahr to travel to America. In 1851 he, along with his sister Hulda, was on the faculty at Limestone Female High School (the predecessor of today's Limestone College), Gaffney, SC. During his tenure at the High School, he was a teacher of French, drawing, painting, and music. From History of Limestone College, by Walter Carroll Taylor, p. 27: "The Principals of the Female High School, at Limestone Springs invited the following gentlemen to act as a Board of Visitors, in the Examinations of the School in July, 1851, and to report the result: ....Professor Brumby, South Carolina College, Columbia.... The Board was especially gratified with the Music as conducted by....Mr. and Miss Hahr...." (Is this Brumby the same as Col. Arnoldus V. Brumby, who was the first superintendent of Georgia Military Institute, which opened in 1851? Col. Brumby of GMI was Professor of Mathematics and Natural Philosophy there.) In 1854 he was on the faculty at Legare's school in Orangeburg, SC. In 1861 he was living in Cumberland County, North Carolina. On April 17 of that year he enlisted in the Confederate States of America (CSA). His career in the CSA apparently had been noteworthy by virtue of the fact that he has been mentioned in various publications: In the book: "Histories of the several regiments and battalions from North Carolina in the great war of 1861-65," by Walter Clark he was cited in Vol. 1, p. 118: Franz Hahr was Commandant of Conscript Camp; The Bethel Regiment also in vol 4, p. 383: The Nineteenth Battalion was a battalion of "light duty" men, 5 companies, commanded by Major F. J. Hahr, a gallant Swede who had been disabled by wounds. On page 548, in same vol: Major Hahr, an accomplished Swede, served as Aide-de-Camp to General Kirkland during this battle (Bentonville), and was cool and efficient under fire. Franz Hahr was also cited in Official Reports of War of the Rebellion: Series I, vol. 46, Part II, page 1187, and vol. 51, page 988; Series IV, vol. 3, page 490. The War Department in Washington, DC sent letter, dated 28 Feb 1934, to Mrs. H. C. Dobbs (Annie von Schele Hahr, his daughter), presumably in resonse to a letter from her requesting any information they may have on Franz Hahr's Confederate States of America military Service record. Below is a copy of this letter: [ The records show that Franz J. Hahr, not found as Franz Joseph Hahr, Company F, 1st Regiment North Carolina Infantry, (6 months 1861) Confederate States Army, enlisted April 17, 1861 at Fayetteville. Aged 36 years. He was mustered in as Corporal May 13, 1861 for 6 months and was appointed Quartermaster Sergeant of the Regiment May 20, 1861, but no record of him has been found as of this regiment. He was appointed 1st Lieutenant and Drill Master, Confederate States Army, June 24, 1862 and ordered to report to Camp of Instruction #1 at Raleigh, North Carolina. He was appointed Major February 11, 1864 to rank from December 14, 1863 to command Camp of Instruction, Conscript Bureau and served for a considerable time at Camp Holmes, North Carolina. Under date of June 4, 1864 he was mentioned as Major commanding Mallett's Battalion near Weldon, N.C., and on January 31, 1865 as Major commanding Battalion of light duty men at Post of Wilmington, N.C. In March, 1865 he was temporarily attached to the Staff of General [William W.] Kirkland as Inspector General. He was paroled at Greensboro, North Carolina May 1, 1865 in accordance with the terms of a Military Convention entered into on the 26th day of April 1865, as Major and Brigadier Inspector of Kirkland's Brigade, Hoke's Division, Hardee's Corps.] From a copy found in an old scrapbook kept by Annie von Schele Hahr: [ To whom it may concern: This is to certify that F. J. Hahr enlisted in my command, Company F, 1st Regiment, N.C. Volunteers, Confederate States Army, in April 1861. He was connected with the Company until its disbandment. He was a brave and faithful soldier and in every respect worthy of the higher rank which he later atttained in the Confederate Service. Signed, Y. B. Stern (or Israel B. Stern ? -- blurred), Captain, Company F, First Regiment, N.C. Volunteers. ] Letter from Annie Von Schele Hahr dated 28 April 1952: [...My Father was twice wounded in service. He lay in a frozen trench. This left him with rheumatism of the heart, from which he suffered ever afterward. Dropsy followed and took him away. ] Franz Hahr Stewart's notes say he was present at Appomattox, and referred to Lafayette Light Infantry (this needs to be checked). In 1870 US Census for North Carolina, there was listing for Frank Hahr, age 43, married, born Sweden, foreign born parents, white. Locality: Littleton P.O., Warren County. Series M593, roll 1164, p. 660. 1878 Died and buried in Greensboro, Guilford Co., NC, 22 December ? Children sent to AL to live with Aunt Hulda Hahr Legare? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Birth: 1 JAN 1825 in Stockholm; Sweden Death: 22 DEC 1878 in Greensboro, Guilford Cnty, NC; USA Burial: 23 DEC 1878 Methodist cemetary, West Market St, Greensboro, NC Note: He is buried along with his wife in the Methodist Church yard on West Market Street in Greensboro, NC. The church at the location where they were buried along with the cemetary may no longer in existance. 1 CONF: 1 JAN 1825 Church of Mariefred Note: Confirmation was signed A.C. Lundstrom, Royal Court preacher and pastor on 5/10/1845. Event: Bruncona, Nils Lieutenant Commander, etc., Knight GodParents Note: Also Wirsén, af, Admiral etc. and Knight Commander; the dowager U. Drufva, nee af Melin. the Chamberlain of H.R.H. the Crown Prince, and Major, Count Carl Rosen; Mrs. Zachrisson, nee Barman; The Protocol Secretary etc. Bernhard Beskow; Mrs. Westin, nee Altén; Captain Johan Westin Jacobsson; Mrs Kuylenstjerna, nee Bedoire; the Conductor Samuel Enander; Mrs Westin, nee Möller. The General and Knight Commander Burenstam; the Countess, Miss Anastasia Stedingk; Lieutenant Carl von Scheele; Miss Aug. Bruncrona. Mr. Otto Wilhelm Hahr and Mademoiselle Hedda Eichorn. Godparents in absentia: H.R.H., the Crown Prince of Sweden and Norway, Josef Franz Oscar; Mr. Anders Hahr; the widow H. von Schéele nee Knorring; the wholesaler Carl Hahr; the widow Hahr nee Arfivdsson; The Quartermaster etc. A. C. Hahr; Mrs M. Schenson, nee Hahr; the Major in Royal Prussian service, Christian v. Schéele, his wife Mrs. Mina v. Schéele, nee v. Eggartz; the District Judge and Knight Commander Granschoug; the dowager Schmiterlöw nee Palbitsky; Major Möller; Mrs. Hagelstam nee Burenstam. Mr. Thore Petré; Mrs. M. Conradie, nee Küsel; the Member of the Board of Trade Cronius; the Lady-in-Waiting to H.M. the Queen, Countess Maria von Stedingk; The District Judge etc. J. Nordenfalk; Miss Sophie Zacco; the Lieutenant Commander of the Royal Navy, Ab. Bruncrona; Miss Fredrique v. Scheele; the Captain and Aide-de-camp to H.R.H. the Crown Prince, August Malmborg; Miss Aug. Schmiterlöw; the 1st Lieutenant of the Royal Navy, Count Adolph Rose and Demoiselle Emma Orth. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Just a small amount of "Swedish" Royalty in the Annie Hahr Dobbs Pawley family. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He was also of Russian, Swedish, German descent. Mr. JENNER. Would you tell me a little bit about your father? And may I say this. There appear in the reports that he was--or maybe your grandfather, was Swedish, or someone in your line was Swedish, and received some commission or grant from the Queen of Sweden at one time, or maybe your family. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that, will you? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, the family is of Swedish origin. The name is spelled M-o-h-r-e-n-s-k-u-l-d. Mr. JENNER. Yes; I saw last night in looking over these materials the spelling S-k-o-l-d-t, is that correct? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right, it is spelled this way. That is a Swedish way of spelling. And the letter "o" with two dots over it is a typical Swedish letter which cannot be translated or written down in any language. So in probably moving to Russia, or to the Baltic States, you see, which was an intermediary area between Russia and Sweden, they probably changed it to S-c-h-i- l-d-t. And it can also be written in Russian, at the same time. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes--because I am more or less of a French orientation. And when I became an American citizen, I did not like the prefix "Von" which is German to the average person. And so we used "De" which is equally used in Sweden or in the Baltic States, interchangeably. And my uncle, who was here in the States for quite some time, and died here---- ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ WILLIAM GIBBS McADOO, JR. "Mac" born 31 October 1863 in Marietta, GA; William Gibbs McAdoo---------------------------Born: Marietta, Cobb County, Georgia Annie Von Schele Hahr------------------------- Married: Herbert Clifton Dobbs---------------------- Marietta, Cobb County, Georgia Daughter: Annie Hahr Dobbs:-----------------Born: Marietta, Cobb County, Georgia Married: William Douglas Pawley---July 25, 1918* Marietta, Cobb County, Georgia *Some sources state 1919 ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ Edited November 9, 2005 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 just a bit of info for those interested in such things : the o with a couple of dots is pronounced roughly as the 'u' in say 'burger' or 'murder'. (Shold means shield, mohren I don't know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Not William, but Nona; I am not sure if this is already on the record but her full name, [maiden/marriages] ostensibly, was Nona Hazelhurst McAdoo/DeMohrenschildt/Cowles/Taylor/Park Ferdinand de Mohrenschildt 1917-1919 Dr. Edward Spencer Cowles 1928-? Francis Taylor 1935-1939 Darragh H. Park -1953 Nona Hazelhurst McAdoo http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=63959244 b.1893. d. 1971 was the daughter of Senator William G. McAdoo. Her stepmother Eleanor Wilson was the daughter of President Woodrow Wilson. She married four times: "in 1917 to Ferdinand de Mohrenschildt, one-time official of the Russian Embassy in Washington, who died in 1919. In 1928 Mrs. de Mohrenschildt was married in this city to Dr. Edward S. Cowles, psychiatrist and founder of the Body-and-Soul Clinic at St. Mark's-in-the-Bouwerie, who was the object of a protest of the authorities of the Protestant Episcopal Church for his use of the church for healing clinics." She divorced Edward Spencer Cowles (note spelling). In 1935, she married Francis Taylor, but they too divorced, in 1939. Her last husband was Darragh Andersen Park. b.1891 d.1953 See http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=63959194 at least Nona and Ferdinand are buried in Burial: Sleepy Hollow Cemetery Sleepy Hollow Westchester County New York, USA Plot: Section 71 also see Dallas Morning News "DeMohrenschildt Mystery" By Suzy Knickerbocker April 16,1977 In that article, she mentions that Jake Cogswell was married to Joan Demers and Cynthia Cannon wondering whether she was related to Col. Jack Cannon, inventor of the Glaser Gun, named after Armin Glaser; Cannon is sometimes mentioned in conjunction with Mitchell Werbell. See http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/armm/nato3/nato3_manual/ammo.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Robert, reading your posts is usually like taking in a breath of fresh air. It is ironic that this forum, of all places, seems rampant with incuriousity.: I mean, it is as if there is adamant resistance to even going through the exercise of finding and then of sharing with the aim of culling or connecting.... ...................... Why are Tom Scully's posts as big as a billboard? Why do you have a photo of yourself that looks like you're one of the Dukes of Hazard? Why are your interests the size of several volumes of an encyclopedia? And if that wasn't enough why do you have a large pointless photo of cops at the bottom of your posts? Can one apply to be an editor of a moderator? (quote name='Tom Scully' timestamp='1335038200' post='250827'] William Earl Nelson was the best man in the wedding of Philip Fendig, who was an usher in Nelson's wedding.: Ted Shackley introduces Philip F. Fendig to the HSCA : (/quote) Sorry Tom, I still don't see where this is headed. Query does the actor Kevin Bacon come into this at all ... I posted the first part of this post yesterday, on another thread. ...Now, we know much about DeMohrenschildt...his brother was Bush's roommate's stepfather, DeM dated Jackie's mother and knew Jackie when she was a girl, he shpeherded LHO, seemed to know everyone, was important enough to "unretire" Tom Devine of the CIA, for a meeting along with Clemard Charles. 14 year after the assassination of JFK, George DeM., in the midst of an Reader's Digest assigned interview, takes an afternoon break, receives a message from HSCA's investigator Fonzi, and allegedly blows his brains out and dominates one last news headline cycle. I submit that James K. Cogswell, III falls into the DeM and Abramoff category. The man is the grandson of a Spanish_American War Admiral hero, and the nephew of a 20th century naval standout. A WWII destroyer is named after the two, and Cogswell, III serves on the ship as an officer, with distinction, through many combat perils, until after VJ day and the occupation of Japan. His aunt, the widow of the second Cogswell, naval namesake, is a retired CIA secretary by 1954. Cogswell serve on the naval destroyer named after his family, during the final year of the war with the first US astronaut in space, and the fifth human to walk on the moon, Alan B. Shepard. Cogswell seems to have graduated from The Gunnery School in Washington, CT in 1939, with the prominent Berkeley professor and mathematician, David Gale. In 1942, DeMohrenschildt rooms in Washington DC for a few weeks with naval officer Harry Hull, a man whose mother-in-law since 1939, was Cogswell's aunt, Bianca. In 1954, Cogswell's first cousin on his mother's (Hennenger) side, Susan Estabrook Lewis, marries for life, the former OSS chief secretariat, Alvah Woodbury Sulloway . In 1953, Cogswell, III marries for a second time, to Joan Farish, daughter of Stephen Power Farish, uncle of Bush friend, Will Farish III. Cogswell's best man was George O. Walbridge, 2d. Walbridge turns up in a 1955 newspaper photo, standing in Havana, next to his boss, Lem Billings of Emerson Drug Co., and the former Cuban dictator Prio's former press secretary. It turns out that both Lem Bilings and Walbridge are very close to, and employed by the grandson of the Emerson Drug Co. founder, who also is the nephew by the marriage of Nina McaDoo TO George DeM's late uncle, Ferdinand DeMohrenschildt. Later reports, including by the HSCA, are that Cogswell, III worked for the CIA, raised money to finance at least one plot to assassinate Castro, knew and socialized with George DeM. and with DeM's other contact, Joseph F. Dryer, was a friend of AMRAZZ-1, aka Joaquin Godoy, and with Antonio Veciana, and had an only sister, Theodora, described in an HSCA report as being acquainted with "Livingston" aka Mitchell Werbell. Let's see....did I miss anything???? .... Even at the OSS Society, Alvah Sulloway's was evidently such a low key presence, he was referred to in their newsletter in 2001 as "her". (quote)]http://www.google.co...4b94ef403c105f7 OSS Society Newsletter - Winter 2001 File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View journals from 1892-1997. Material includes her years with the OSS Secretariat,... http://www.seacoasto...?cid=sitesearch January 08, 2003 2:00 AM Alvah Sulloway is a man who has learned throughout his career when to a keep secret and when not to. ....During World War II, Sulloway worked under OSS director Maj. General William J. Donovan in Washington, D.C. "I was in charge of overseeing the distribution of cables ... that came in from all over the world," he said, before noting many of those correspondences were classified as top-secret...."I think my experience working for General Donovan made me less fearful of doing something different," he said.... (/quote) Well, the answer to the question above was quick in coming. In the obituary of John Farr Hawley, husband of a first cousin of Cogswell, III, Hawley's family thought it was important enough of a detail to share the fact that Hawley was a law school classmate of John Connally, and we know that Henry Wade was a classmate of both men...... https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=kennedy+friend+frances+mcadoo&btnG=#q=cogswell+dr.+cannon+park+ave.&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=1&biw=1440&bih=715&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=W2mTT4HXMIjAtgek1L23Cw&ved=0CA4QpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=cf3843c8efd6c605Miss Cannon Wed To JK Cogswell 3d New York Times - Jun 16, 1961 Miss Cannon Wed To ]. K. Cogswell 3d The marriage of Miss Cyn-! thia Cannon, daughter of Mrs. A. Benson Cannon of 570 Park Avenue and the late Dr. http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/64/1/110.pdf On Nov. 27, 1950, amid the surroundings he would surely have chosen, death came to Dr. A. Benson Cannon..... ...He had epitomized bounding health and possessed a vigor of mind and body which belied his 62 years. Only the autopsy report of acute myocarditis explained his sudden death. Dr. Cannon, son of Mr. and Mrs. Edmund Cannon, was born on Nov. 10, 1888, in Wilcox County, Alabama. He attended Erskine College in South Carolina and later became one of its trustees and recipient of an honorary doctor of laws degree. In 1909 he entered the medical department of Vanderbilt University, and the follow¬ ing year he transferred to Tulane, where he was awarded the degree of doctor of medicine in 1913. Once possessed of a medical degree, Dr. Cannon turned to New York City. He had intended to become a gynecologist, but frequent contacts with Dr. John A. Fordyce and Dr. Homer F. Swift aroused his interest in dermatology. In 1916 he joined the staff of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University and of the Vanderbilt Clinic as clinical assistant, and two years later he was appointed assistant attending dermatologist at City Hospital. These associations lasted until his death, at which time he was director of dermatology in both institutions, as well as Presbyterian Hospital. Dr. Cannon spent much of the years 1924 to 1925 abroad, visiting dermatologie centers in England, Scotland, Germany, and France. He spent some time in Vienna studying at the Allgemeine Krankenhaus under Kyrie, Krenn, Oppenheim, Gertsman, and Kumer and there formed a lasting friendship with Leopold Arzt..... .....His motion picture on "The Management of Cancerous and Precancerous Lesions of the Skin" was completed the week of his death and was shown posthumously at a meeting of the American Academy of Dermatology 10 days later. His main interest, however, was always the individual patient. His real joy was in solving a diagnostic puzzle and, still more, in curing a desperate case. Dr. Cannon gave great concern to the teaching functions of his department. Soon after assuming the professorship in 1947, Dr. Cannon formed an affiliation with the United States Marine Hospital at Stapleton, Staten Island. By that arrangement a well-equipped service of 65 dermatologie beds, in addition to wards for venereal disease, became available for teaching, and the residents at Marine Hospital were enabled to obtain basic training at the College of Physicians and Surgeons and to receive clinical instruction on their own wards by members of Dr. Cannon's staff accredited by the American Board of Dermatology and Syphilology. He was equally interested in the teaching of undergraduates........ Dr. Cannon is survived by his widow, the former Eleanor Reid, of Gastonia, N. C, and by his daughter, Cynthia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yeah Tom. I posted this mainly for you because I know we both are pretty big on the DeMohrenschildt's and the extended family. I never realized Nona was related to President Woodrow Wilson. The Cannon connection is pretty interesting. I actually found that page on the Internet by accident, while I was researching and looking for obits for Jaime Cruz Alejandro & Reverend Israel Dabney, when I found the obit for Darragh Andersen Park. They were both involved in what appears to be a possible or probable assassination plot against then, Presidential candidate John F. Kennedy on November 4, 1960 in Cook County, Illinois. Neither man was charged, which sounds very strange, until you read the details. There are also conflicting accounts of what happened. As far as the current state of the forum, it has always been something of a group of clique's with certain persons incapable of posting without insulting or belittling someone else. I suppose it is a sign of the times. At least its not like alt.assassination.jfk, or maybe it is......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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