Chemtrails over Las Vegas last Friday

[Jack White]

I was in Las Vegas all of last week. Two days we were at a basketball

tournament, and between games I stepped outside and saw these three

chemtrails being laid by three planes flying in a PARALLEL FORMATION

directly overhead. I snapped this photo, because as a tourist I had my

camera with me. The planes could be easily seen with the naked eye,

and these were not contrails, but chemicals being sprayed by the

three planes. The Las Vegas airport was about three miles away and

airliners could be seen taking off and landing there which were not leaving

such trails.

Jack

[David Heagney]

Um, Jack. Planes landing and taking off wouldn't form contrails because they aren't high enough in the atmosphere to make them.

[Evan Burton]

Did you ask the FAA / local ATC authorities what the aircraft were, why they appeared in formation, and their flight plan details?

Edited December 2, 2005 by Evan Burton

[Matthew Lewis]

As mentioned before, planes taking off or landing rarely leave contrails as they are too low. That doesn't rule out the possibility that the planes were flying over the city above 30,000 feet on regular commercial routes. Airliners are only required to have a mile separation by the FAA. At a cruise speed of 500 mph, a single mile separation amounts to 7.2 seconds between two planes crossing the same point in the sky. That also only applies if they are at the same altitude. The FAA allows planes to cross with only 1000 feet vertical separation. It is impossible to tell how far apart the planes are from the picture as only one plane is visible. They could easily be within regs. Also Nellis AFB is near Vegas. Military planes often fly in formation for training without nefarious purposes. How do we know the picture does not show commercial flights or normal military flights? I don't know what you consider a formation, but from the picture as only one plane is visible, that looks like a rather lousy formation. My opinion is those are normal commercial flights that happen to be passing over the area, not landing or taking off from the local airport, but just passing over at high altitude. Can you prove otherwise?

[Evan Burton]

Actually, contrails can form at any time - it just needs the right atmospheric conditions. Contrails are often formed during takeoff and landing.

On this subject, I happen to be watching a Discovery Channel programme called 'Understanding Air Traffic Control'. Guess where it happens to be set?

Dallas-Fort Worth.

Third busiest airport in the world. Over 6000 movements per day.

Guess what you see? Aircraft leaving CONTRAILS (not chemtrails) - even during landing. A DC-10. A DC-9. A B747. Some B737s and 727s. All leaving CONTRAILS. They remarked about how it's a common sight in the area, and how the aircraft are criss-crossing across the skies as they try to sequence the aircraft.

Take a look at the programme Jack. It puts paid to all your nonsense about chemtrails.

Have you been down to the DFW TRACON centre and asked about the CONTRAILS yet Jack? I suspect not. You have an aversion to hearing things that contradict your misconceptions.

[Gerry Hemming]

Actually, contrails can form at any time - it just needs the right atmospheric conditions. Contrails are often formed during takeoff and landing.

On this subject, I happen to be watching a Discovery Channel programme called 'Understanding Air Traffic Control'. Guess where it happens to be set?

Dallas-Fort Worth.

Third busiest airport in the world. Over 6000 movements per day.

Guess what you see? Aircraft leaving CONTRAILS (not chemtrails) - even during landing. A DC-10. A DC-9. A B747. Some B737s and 727s. All leaving CONTRAILS. They remarked about how it's a common sight in the area, and how the aircraft are criss-crossing across the skies as they try to sequence the aircraft.

Take a look at the programme Jack. It puts paid to all your nonsense about chemtrails.

Have you been down to the DFW TRACON centre and asked about the CONTRAILS yet Jack? I suspect not. You have an aversion to hearing things that contradict your misconceptions.

----------------------------

Real close Evan, but the TRACONS are in closed darkened rooms ["Pushing Tin"] and the only way T/Os and landings are observed, is by the Approach/Departure controllers in the Tower Cab. [i have spent lotsa time in ALL "positions"].

However, if it is Denver [5000+ ft. msl/"Mile Hogh"] and the frezing level is at ground level -- then you might get some contrails. (depends on compressibility factors/air density & humidity]

The T/O & Landing vapors which are frequently viewed -- have to do with wing-tip vortices and "high-angle-of-attack" positions at the "leading-edges" of the aircraft's wings -- especially at "V-2" when the pilot or co-pilot calls it, and the nose is rotated up just before "Liftoff".

But I agree with your statement that: The pic is NOT anywhere near a "formation", and if not contrails -- it is aircraft dumping fuel as a weight [load & CG] precaution before letting down on an approach. The FAA doesn't like fuel dumping [on the taxpayer's heads and cars] at lower altitudes.

Keep'em rightous,

GPH

__________________________

[Evan Burton]

Actually, contrails can form at any time - it just needs the right atmospheric conditions. Contrails are often formed during takeoff and landing.

On this subject, I happen to be watching a Discovery Channel programme called 'Understanding Air Traffic Control'. Guess where it happens to be set?

Dallas-Fort Worth.

Third busiest airport in the world. Over 6000 movements per day.

Guess what you see? Aircraft leaving CONTRAILS (not chemtrails) - even during landing. A DC-10. A DC-9. A B747. Some B737s and 727s. All leaving CONTRAILS. They remarked about how it's a common sight in the area, and how the aircraft are criss-crossing across the skies as they try to sequence the aircraft.

Take a look at the programme Jack. It puts paid to all your nonsense about chemtrails.

Have you been down to the DFW TRACON centre and asked about the CONTRAILS yet Jack? I suspect not. You have an aversion to hearing things that contradict your misconceptions.

----------------------------

Real close Evan, but the TRACONS are in closed darkened rooms ["Pushing Tin"] and the only way T/Os and landings are observed, is by the Approach/Departure controllers in the Tower Cab. [i have spent lotsa time in ALL "positions"].

However, if it is Denver [5000+ ft. msl/"Mile Hogh"] and the frezing level is at ground level -- then you might get some contrails. (depends on compressibility factors/air density & humidity]

The T/O & Landing vapors which are frequently viewed -- have to do with wing-tip vortices and "high-angle-of-attack" positions at the "leading-edges" of the aircraft's wings -- especially at "V-2" when the pilot or co-pilot calls it, and the nose is rotated up just before "Liftoff".

But I agree with your statement that: The pic is NOT anywhere near a "formation", and if not contrails -- it is aircraft dumping fuel as a weight [load & CG] precaution before letting down on an approach. The FAA doesn't like fuel dumping [on the taxpayer's heads and cars] at lower altitudes.

Keep'em rightous,

GPH

__________________________

Yep, they were wing tip votices.

I suggested in another thread the Jack contact the local TRACON to discuss the air routes over his area, so he might understand about the 'roads' above his head.

BTW, it's a good doco about ATC. Pretty amazing stuff nowdays. I was a military ATCO, and when I did my training we were the first course to have both procedural control and radar. The ATC simulator had just opened up, so we did approach training in front of a screen. The tower sim wasn't quite ready, though. Still had the big panorama photograph of the airfield to work.

[Jack White]

I was in Las Vegas all of last week. Two days we were at a basketball

tournament, and between games I stepped outside and saw these three

chemtrails being laid by three planes flying in a PARALLEL FORMATION

directly overhead. I snapped this photo, because as a tourist I had my

camera with me. The planes could be easily seen with the naked eye,

and these were not contrails, but chemicals being sprayed by the

three planes. The Las Vegas airport was about three miles away and

airliners could be seen taking off and landing there which were not leaving

such trails.

Jack

I wish I had my camera with me day before yesterday (Wednesday)

when driving across town to lunch. Clustered over south Fort Worth

were ELEVEN separate planes spraying bizarre chemtrail patterns.

The most prominent was a large letter "A" perfectly formed with

a giant "V" and a crossbar. I counted a total of 11 planes flying

at crazy angles to each other laying the trails simultaneously.

Later that day, at sunset, 3 planes were spraying over downtown

Fort Worth. This time I did have a camera and got some good shots,

but they are still in my digital camera. I will post them some time

later. The three trails formed a Cross of Lorraine.

More later.

Jack

[Jack White]

Today was another bizarre day for chemtrails over southwest Fort Worth.

Today was another day of skywriting big letters in the sky. There was a "K"

and an "A" and a "Z"...plus another new technique...dots and dashes.

The latter consisted of intermittent spraying in short bursts and long bursts

instead of continuous horizon to horizon stripes. Unfortunately, I was again

out driving to lunch and did not have my camera. I counted a total of

seven planes laying trails in just one area of the sky.

Jack

[Len Colby]

Today was another bizarre day for chemtrails over southwest Fort Worth.

Today was another day of skywriting big letters in the sky. There was a "K"

and an "A" and a "Z"...plus another new technique...dots and dashes.

The latter consisted of intermittent spraying in short bursts and long bursts

instead of continuous horizon to horizon stripes. Unfortunately, I was again

out driving to lunch and did not have my camera. I counted a total of

seven planes laying trails in just one area of the sky.

Jack

Jack did it ever occur to you that the skywriting might actually have been just skywriting? I don't see what the point of 'chemtrailing' letters or dots and dashes would be esp. if they are trying to keep this low profile.

Maybe the dots and dashes were Morse code or a variation of it? Could be the CIA's way of sending messages to aliens in the heavens or secret plotters down on the surface, it could even have something to do with DP surveillance. Or it could just be a bored skywriter or a coincidence.

I got some advice for you since chemtrail flights seem to follow you around, you should get an inexpensive pocket digital camera and leave it in your love compartment or always have it on you. Won't be anymore of those missed opportunities.

Don't forget to upload those photos you promised.

..these were not contrails, but chemicals being sprayed by the three planes.

Any evidence to back this assertion Jack? Just what relevent training or experience do you have to make such a determination?

[Guest John Gillespie]

"Maybe the dots and dashes were Morse code or a variation of it? Could be the CIA's way of sending messages to aliens in the heavens or secret plotters down on the surface, it could even have something to do with DP surveillance. Or it could just be a bored skywriter or a coincidence."

Ha. Touche, Len. It's easy to be reluctant to get into this topic because it's one of those subjects, like UFOs and Area 51, that have a way of dripping, oh, negative cache upon oneself, so to speak. But I must tell you that where I live, just north of Boston and close to the airport (so I have, relatively, lots of sky), I have never seen as many of these 'trails'as I have the last couple of years.

There have been reports in Oklahoma newspapers about residents' complaints regarding these so-called chemtrails as well as statements from pilots about their own suspicions. So, there is at least a buzz on it with genuine concern about its proliferation. But, as to the nature of things, who knows? Nonetheless, something worth a peek or two.

Regards,

John Gillespie

[Len Colby]

Another reason why I discount "chemtrails" is the altitude the planes are flying at, many thousands of feet above the surface of the Earth. I don't have a scientific background but I imagine much (most) of the particles would never fall to the surface and if and when they did it would be very far from where they were "sprayed" making targeting all but impossible. Much of what did come down would probably do so in rain drops which most likely would diminish their effect.

If the NWO wanted to dope the populace spiking the water supply would be I imagine much simpler, cheaper and easier to cover up. How would they be able to protect themselves and friends and families from being affected?

I'm just "hand waving" here and would appreciate comments from anyone who knows what they are talking about.

Edited January 30, 2006 by Len Colby

[Jack White]

Here is one of a series of chemtrail photos which had been in my camera since

January. Taken at sunset over downtown Fort Worth, they show four planes

in formation making giant crosses. The first was a Tau (T) Cross, which I saw

being formed (top). By the time I went in the house for my camera, it had

dissipated into a high cirrus cloud, BUT a Cross of Lorraine was being made

by three planes flying north in parallel formation, and one plane flying west

to form the cross. There are many other shots, but this one is representative.

After church this morning I noted extremely heavy chemtrail activity over

southeast Fort Worth. At least 10 or 12 planes were all in one area of the

sky at the same time, laying chemtrails of many crisscrossing patterns, but

all in one compact area of the southern sky. Unfortunately I had no camera

with me.

Jack

PS...THE TYPE UNDER THE PHOTO SHOULD SAY "CROSS OF LORRAINE"

INSTEAD OF ST. ANDREWS CROSS. A memory merge error.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Jack White

[Matthew Lewis]

Persistent contrails have existed and been known about since aircraft could fly high enough.

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1942/naca-wr-l-474/

The question is not what are they spraying. Persistent contrails have been known about and observed since before WWII. The real question is why they are more common now than they used to be. There are many pieces to that answer.

1. Jet traffic has doubled a few times since the 70's. It is projected to double again in just 10 years.

2. Jet engines today are more powerful than older models. This means they burn more fuel and consequently have much more water vapor in the exhaust.

3. Jets travel higher now (on average) partly due to increased traffic and partly due to increased power allowing higher flight. Higher flight means more contrails. Read that study from 1942 I posted above for more explanation on this.

4. An increase in traffic increases the exhaust put into the atmosphere. This exhaust has a cumulative effect and results in conditions more conducive to contrail formation over the long run. I've read some studies about it and will try to find them, though not everything is available online.

5. Evidence that airlines have changed their engines can be found in the noise regulations that the FAA has put out. Around 2000, Stage 3 regs went into effect. This is a regulation governing the noise output of jet engines and required every airline to either replace their engines or install hush kits. These newer engines are not only quieter but are more fuel efficient meaning again, more water vapor. Incidentally, Stage 4 regs were due to take effect in January of this year requiring even more changes. I haven't heard specifically if Stage 4 engines are more fuel efficient but I wouldn't doubt it. I do know that many Stage 3 engines already met Stage 4 regs though so many airlines did not have to update. Some of those that did have applied for extensions as they can't make their planes compliant in time.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Matthew Lewis

[Jack White]

Three planes flying in parallel formation at the same time are not

commercial airliners. Another flying at a right angle is not an airliner.

A dozen flying in one area of the sky at the same time are not

airliners. Jet contrails do not spread out to become cirrus clouds.

Jack