Coincidence? AF2J vs Ultimate Sacrifice

[Tim Gratz]

Pat, I certainly agree with you that Russo is way out in left-field when he tries to argue there was a lone assassin. I think we agree that not only was there more than one shooter but also LHO either of them (I'll go with your scenario of two shooters).

But those issues relate only to errors in his reasoning process. I.e., they are not factual errors.

If the facts that he asserts in his book are correct, one can make one one's judgment re what they mean.

I would note that "Ultimate Sacrifice" does support some of Russo's positions re what the Kennedys' plan was for Cuba.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

Tim: You may dislike Mellen's book and really believe "Garrison got it all wrong", but many in the research community give this book high praise. Just on the book cover we get: Fonzi, Aguilar, Stone, Dick Russell, Cyril Wecht, Dick Gregory... some major heavies in this case.

Did you actually READ this book?

As for "Ultimate Sacrifice" selling more. That it is prominently displayed in bookstores and you cannot even find "AF2J" could account for this disparity in sales. To buy a book you've gotta see it. (Even those who get stuff on Amazon also frequent bookstores).

But you will not ever believe anything of our GOVERNMENT. Nope, t'was Castro. (And all his men dressed in US military garb at Bethesda).

Dawn

[Tim Gratz]

Dawn, of course I read Mellen's book cover to cover. It is replete with errors.

I'll go with William Turner's endorsement of "Ultimate Sacrifice".

Dawn wrote:

Nope, t'was Castro. (And all his men dressed in US military garb at Bethesda).

Well, Dawn, that the would explain then the cigar smoke and the Spanish accents! Thanks for the info! (Proving of course Lynne's point that you are a secret conservative. (She must take your facetious remarks seriously.))

Edited December 9, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Owen Parsons]

Dawn, of course I read Mellen's book cover to cover. It is replete with errors.

I'll go with William Turner's endorsement of "Ultimate Sacrifice".

Bill Turner also endorses the "non-existent" case against Clay Shaw, last I checked.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Tim Gratz]

Well, Owen, if Prof Mellen is right Garrison hated Turner.

[Owen Parsons]

You haven't read the book, have you? Otherwise you wouldn't post something so blatantly untrue. Mellen never says Garrison hated Turner. Mellen has her own criticisms of Turner's investigative work in one particular area. But she says that Garrison trusted Turner. What you have posted is a complete fabrication.

Even if Garrison did hate Turner (which he didn't), this wouldn't change the fact that Turner endorses the case against Shaw.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Thomas Graves]

Pat, I certainly agree with you that Russo is way out in left-field when he tries to argue there was a lone assassin. I think we agree that not only was there more than one shooter but also LHO either of them (I'll go with your scenario of two shooters).

But those issues relate only to errors in his reasoning process. I.e., they are not factual errors.

________________________________________

Tim,

If, as you admit, Russo arrived at a certain untenable idea ("issue"; "theory") due to "errors in his reasoning process," then how did he arrive at "the truths" in his book? Research? Blind Luck?? An Ouija board???

Thomas

________________________________________

Edited December 9, 2005 by Thomas Graves

[Owen Parsons]

Tim apparently has difficulty seeing that Russo's book is a "black book," complete with a cooked Agency-backed thesis.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Tim Gratz]

Thomas:

"Live By the Sword" developed facts not investigated by other assassination researchers.

Never have I suggested I agree with Russo's conclusions that:

1. Oswald shot Kennedy.

2. There were no other shooters.

The fact that he reached, IMO, erroneous conclusions about the above does not invalidate the facts he discovered or reported.

To date John has not responded to my challenge to disprove any of the facts Russo reported.

Let me try this analogy: On his famous voyage, Charles Darwin discovered a lot of "facts" about nature from which he developed his theory about evolution. His theory may or may not be correct. But even if his theory of evolution is wrong, that does not mean his facts were improperly recorded.

Even Professor Mellen does not disagree that Russo was an accurate investigative reporter.

And "Ultimate Sacrifice" carries Russo's research to the next step.

Russo argues LHO shot JFK because he discovered the U.S. actions against Castro. People who do not suscribe to the Castro did it scenario do not like Russo's book because if the facts he reports gave a Castro supporter a motive to shoot JFK, it also gave Castro the very same motive. But whether you agree with Russo's conclusions or not, or agree with my conclusions or not, you cannot argue with the facts his investigation revealed. All you can responsibly do is argue the significance of the facts.

[Pat Speer]

Tim makes a decent point about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because Russo is wrong about some things doesn't mean he's wrong about everything. I spent over two years studying the medical evidence, basically full-time. I learned a lot from Lifton, Livingstone, Weisberg, Donahue, Wecht, Mantik, Aguilar, the McAdams site, the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel, the radiology consultants for the HSCA, Lattimer, Myers, Thompson, Humes, Boswell, and Finck. Plus I have no idea how many others, probably hundreds. And I ended up disagreeing with all of them on a number of points. It doesn't mean the men I named weren't credible, or sincere, merely that I disagreed with them on many points. I believe this is the way a consensus will be reached, by people learning from their teachers and expanding upon the knowledge of their teachers.

Tim claims he learned a lot from Russo but is not willing to buy the whole Russo line of clothing. Good for him. That's much better than his swallowing Russo's book whole. (That could be painful.) One of the reasons I came to this forum as opposed to some of the others is because it lacked a resident Posnerite...someone who learned everything he knew from reading Posner's book and refused to learn anything else. I didn't want to discuss the case with such men because it was pointless; they had an agenda rather than a sincere desire to learn. I don't see Tim as having such an agenda. I think he would agree that the CIA was behind the killing before he would accept the SBT and insist that a whacked-out commie killed Kennedy on a whim. Thankfully, the era of the Posnerites seems to be coming to an end. The Peter Jennings special may have been their last hurrah.

Of course, the premise of this thread is ridiculous. Joan Mellen worked on her book almost as long as Lamar. The timing is just a coincidence. IMO.

[Thomas Graves]

_____________________________________

Pat,

Points taken...

Thanks.

Thomas

_____________________________________

Edited December 9, 2005 by Thomas Graves

[Gerry Hemming]

Thomas:

"Live By the Sword" developed facts not investigated by other assassination researchers.

Never have I suggested I agree with Russo's conclusions that:

1. Oswald shot Kennedy.

2. There were no other shooters.

The fact that he reached, IMO, erroneous conclusions about the above does not invalidate the facts he discovered or reported.

To date John has not responded to my challenge to disprove any of the facts Russo reported.

Let me try this analogy: On his famous voyage, Charles Darwin discovered a lot of "facts" about nature from which he developed his theory about evolution. His theory may or may not be correct. But even if his theory of evolution is wrong, that does not mean his facts were improperly recorded.

Even Professor Mellen does not disagree that Russo was an accurate investigative reporter.

And "Ultimate Sacrifice" carries Russo's research to the next step.

Russo argues LHO shot JFK because he discovered the U.S. actions against Castro. People who do not suscribe to the Castro did it scenario do not like Russo's book because if the facts he reports gave a Castro supporter a motive to shoot JFK, it also gave Castro the very same motive. But whether you agree with Russo's conclusions or not, or agree with my conclusions or not, you cannot argue with the facts his investigation revealed. All you can responsibly do is argue the significance of the facts.

---------------------------------------

Something very strange is going on here, and a whole bunch of "Clowns" keep fumbling around. And it is surely sufficient to convince ALL "Lurkers" that: Indeed there are a considerable number of "agenda driven" whacko/wing-nut "Conspiracy Theorists" onboard "This Train" ??!!

Does anybody at all remember that: Amongst the "Credits" listing consultants -- on Oliver Stone's "JFK" you will indeed find the name of one "Gus Ruso" [the "weenies took an "S" off of Gus' name and added it to mine, so I am since 1991 -- officially one "Gerald P. Hemmings"]

I may have a failing memory, but I don't see one name of any Forum member [save Jack White] amongst the credits listed in JFK -- could be wrong though ?!

The very first time I met Russo was: While some of us "Camelot Project" folks were standing in the middle of Dealey Plaza, the first week of filming. [about 50 feet up the embankment from the "Babushka Lady" position.] So here comes this guy strolling down from Houston & Main, wearing glasses, and carrying two cameras over his shoulders.

Just as I was asking him, if he was "on-the-job-with-the-project", a security "weenie" quickly approached and loudly declared: "...NO private citizens with cameras are permitted in this area...Sir !!" This immediately got me annoyed, and I asked the "S/Weenie" -- Just how did he know that this guy was a "private citizen" ?? He responded: "...Well...he doesn't have a "Camelot Badge"...that's how come I know.."!!

I told him to look around at the dozen of us standing there, and show how many of us had a "C/Badge"?? "...Well..I know all of you guys...I recognized y'all right away..". I politely told him to "Bugger Off", as we were ALL in wardrobe clothing, and NOT supposed to be filmed wearing any goddamned badges !! "..Oh...then he is one of the extras that carry cameras during the motorcade...?!

I then loudly told him that: What & who we were, was completely confidential -- he should scurry his tiny ass over to "Craft Services", freeload a Coke or coffee -- Or else !! Gone like the "Energizer Bunny" !!

Then I asked Russo exactly who the hell he was ?? He said that he had the OK from Stone to take some photos. I have never asked Oliver, Kitman Ho, "Beancounter" Townsend, or even Russo -- what the final contract for his services was. NOT in the last 15 years !!

However, he conducted himself same as the rest of us, in that Stone had a "daily-changing-script"; and we gave the advice we were paid to give. None of us ever argued against the plot-line theory. Stone and his people were the professionals, and this was HIS MOVIE; and NOT a documentary !! So, ever onward we went for the next few months !!

I don't recall anybody ever argueing with Groden, Rusconi, or anybody else about "facts", "evidence", nor "story-lines" -- that was NOT our job !!

My ongoing disagreements with Russo are many; and they include his failure to become more expert in matters concerning marksmanship, ballistics, tradecraft, and avoiding swallowing the 99% bullxxxx of the WC, HSCA, etc. so-called "reports" ??!!

The ONLY way he got interviews, especially with people had consistently refused interviews, was none would make thenselves available to inquiries before the 1990s !!

We pulled it off by showing loads of declassified documents, and convincing them that: They should help connect the dots -- because the "wrong" story was already in the public domain.

Anybody notice that Mike McLaney, whose brother Bill gathered together a suspicious group of people in the middle of LA. And at an "alleged training camp"no less ??!!; And where Richard Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, et al. were alleged to have been "raided" ??!! Never happened !! No training camp, NO raid !! The FBI guys "took-note-of" some empty 100 lbs. "Practice Bomb Casings", and some "tree-stump" removing dynamite. NO arrests, NO seizures, NO xxxx !!

Did we argue with Stone while plodding through the "muck & mire" of several useless "training camp" locations ??!! NO, because that wasn't our job !! Did we tell him that he was full of xxxx about said "FBI Raid" -- NO, because it was a 'MOVIE" !!

We drove him down to LaFitte, introduced him to the Mayor, and the owner of the property. He quickly got the OK to film alongside, and hook up cables to, a commercial radio tower. Howard Davis was put in charge of the 3 week task of building the "training camp".

I told him to first check with the U.S. Navy SEALS (Reserve) Company -- but they were busy, so we hired the Navy "Sea Bees" [Reserve Construction Battalion]. During the filming, Oliver took an immediate liking to the "Squids", doubled their $75 per day, and put them on camera. This has made them famous from Hurricane Andrew, to Afghanistan, and on to "Tsunami Relief" !! They are recognized throughout the USN/CB "Community" !!

It took 600+ interviews to do Russo's "Sword", and dozens of "insiders" spoke for the first time. Strange that those "guilty-looking" FBI suspects at a "training camp" turned out to be very close friends of the Kennedy clan ??!!

But, I guess Y'all missed most of that ??!! But I sure would like to hear some numbered paragraphs, which might refute at least some of the 600+ pages of "Sword". But, then again, with all of the wondrous scripture revealed so far [murder is solved, I guess]; so why waste more of anybody's time.

Now, we've got two fresh books, one of 900+ plus pages, and the other, I don't know -- but so far: All that I hear is a stream of libelous lies, prolix, non-sequiters, and agenda driven "groupie-groveling" !!

Could be wrong though, but I await the law firm's views on the matter !! "Danny-Boy" Sheehan went way beyond the "Ham Sandwich Indictment" bit -- with his ANYBODY can "Sue & Bankrupt" ANYBODY in this country; and do it -- even when losing the case !!

Chairs,

GPH

_____________________

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thomas:

"Live By the Sword" developed facts not investigated by other assassination researchers.

Never have I suggested I agree with Russo's conclusions that:

1. Oswald shot Kennedy.

2. There were no other shooters.

The fact that he reached, IMO, erroneous conclusions about the above does not invalidate the facts he discovered or reported.

To date John has not responded to my challenge to disprove any of the facts Russo reported.

Let me try this analogy: On his famous voyage, Charles Darwin discovered a lot of "facts" about nature from which he developed his theory about evolution. His theory may or may not be correct. But even if his theory of evolution is wrong, that does not mean his facts were improperly recorded.

Even Professor Mellen does not disagree that Russo was an accurate investigative reporter.

And "Ultimate Sacrifice" carries Russo's research to the next step.

Russo argues LHO shot JFK because he discovered the U.S. actions against Castro. People who do not suscribe to the Castro did it scenario do not like Russo's book because if the facts he reports gave a Castro supporter a motive to shoot JFK, it also gave Castro the very same motive. But whether you agree with Russo's conclusions or not, or agree with my conclusions or not, you cannot argue with the facts his investigation revealed. All you can responsibly do is argue the significance of the facts.

---------------------------------------

Something very strange is going on here, and a whole bunch of "Clowns" keep fumbling around. And it is surely sufficient to convince ALL "Lurkers" that: Indeed there are a considerable number of "agenda driven" whacko/wing-nut "Conspiracy Theorists" onboard "This Train" ??!!

Does anybody at all remember that: Amongst the "Credits" listing consultants -- on Oliver Stone's "JFK" you will indeed find the name of one "Gus Ruso" [the "weenies took an "S" off of Gus' name and added it to mine, so I am since 1991 -- officially one "Gerald P. Hemmings"]

I may have a failing memory, but I don't see one name of any Forum member [save Jack White] amongst the credits listed in JFK -- could be wrong though ?!

The very first time I met Russo was: While some of us "Camelot Project" folks were standing in the middle of Dealey Plaza, the first week of filming. [about 50 feet up the embankment from the "Babushka Lady" position.] So here comes this guy strolling down from Houston & Main, wearing glasses, and carrying two cameras over his shoulders.

Just as I was asking him, if he was "on-the-job-with-the-project", a security "weenie" quickly approached and loudly declared: "...NO private citizens with cameras are permitted in this area...Sir !!" This immediately got me annoyed, and I asked the "S/Weenie" -- Just how did he know that this guy was a "private citizen" ?? He responded: "...Well...he doesn't have a "Camelot Badge"...that's how come I know.."!!

I told him to look around at the dozen of us standing there, and show how many of us had a "C/Badge"?? "...Well..I know all of you guys...I recognized y'all right away..". I politely told him to "Bugger Off", as we were ALL in wardrobe clothing, and NOT supposed to be filmed wearing any goddamned badges !! "..Oh...then he is one of the extras that carry cameras during the motorcade...?!

I then loudly told him that: What & who we were, was completely confidential -- he should scurry his tiny ass over to "Craft Services", freeload a Coke or coffee -- Or else !! Gone like the "Energizer Bunny" !!

Then I asked Russo exactly who the hell he was ?? He said that he had the OK from Stone to take some photos. I have never asked Oliver, Kitman Ho, "Beancounter" Townsend, or even Russo -- what the final contract for his services was. NOT in the last 15 years !!

However, he conducted himself same as the rest of us, in that Stone had a "daily-changing-script"; and we gave the advice we were paid to give. None of us ever argued against the plot-line theory. Stone and his people were the professionals, and this was HIS MOVIE; and NOT a documentary !! So, ever onward we went for the next few months !!

I don't recall anybody ever argueing with Groden, Rusconi, or anybody else about "facts", "evidence", nor "story-lines" -- that was NOT our job !!

My ongoing disagreements with Russo are many; and they include his failure to become more expert in matters concerning marksmanship, ballistics, tradecraft, and avoiding swallowing the 99% bullxxxx of the WC, HSCA, etc. so-called "reports" ??!!

The ONLY way he got interviews, especially with people had consistently refused interviews, was none would make thenselves available to inquiries before the 1990s !!

We pulled it off by showing loads of declassified documents, and convincing them that: They should help connect the dots -- because the "wrong" story was already in the public domain.

Anybody notice that Mike McLaney, whose brother Bill gathered together a suspicious group of people in the middle of LA. And at an "alleged training camp"no less ??!!; And where Richard Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, et al. were alleged to have been "raided" ??!! Never happened !! No training camp, NO raid !! The FBI guys "took-note-of" some empty 100 lbs. "Practice Bomb Casings", and some "tree-stump" removing dynamite. NO arrests, NO seizures, NO xxxx !!

Did we argue with Stone while plodding through the "muck & mire" of several useless "training camp" locations ??!! NO, because that wasn't our job !! Did we tell him that he was full of xxxx about said "FBI Raid" -- NO, because it was a 'MOVIE" !!

We drove him down to LaFitte, introduced him to the Mayor, and the owner of the property. He quickly got the OK to film alongside, and hook up cables to, a commercial radio tower. Howard Davis was put in charge of the 3 week task of building the "training camp".

I told him to first check with the U.S. Navy SEALS (Reserve) Company -- but they were busy, so we hired the Navy "Sea Bees" [Reserve Construction Battalion]. During the filming, Oliver took an immediate liking to the "Squids", doubled their $75 per day, and put them on camera. This has made them famous from Hurricane Andrew, to Afghanistan, and on to "Tsunami Relief" !! They are recognized throughout the USN/CB "Community" !!

It took 600+ interviews to do Russo's "Sword", and dozens of "insiders" spoke for the first time. Strange that those "guilty-looking" FBI suspects at a "training camp" turned out to be very close friends of the Kennedy clan ??!!

But, I guess Y'all missed most of that ??!! But I sure would like to hear some numbered paragraphs, which might refute at least some of the 600+ pages of "Sword". But, then again, with all of the wondrous scripture revealed so far [murder is solved, I guess]; so why waste more of anybody's time.

Now, we've got two fresh books, one of 900+ plus pages, and the other, I don't know -- but so far: All that I hear is a stream of libelous lies, prolix, non-sequiters, and agenda driven "groupie-groveling" !!

Could be wrong though, but I await the law firm's views on the matter !! "Danny-Boy" Sheehan went way beyond the "Ham Sandwich Indictment" bit -- with his ANYBODY can "Sue & Bankrupt" ANYBODY in this country; and do it -- even when losing the case !!

Chairs,

GPH

_____________________

Gerry:

Rumor that I heard was that you were too busy chasing Jane Rusconi up there around the 2701 Canton St. address, to have known what was going on down in Dealy Plaza.

Any truth to that rumor??????

Tom

[Gerry Hemming]

Thomas:

"Live By the Sword" developed facts not investigated by other assassination researchers.

Never have I suggested I agree with Russo's conclusions that:

1. Oswald shot Kennedy.

2. There were no other shooters.

The fact that he reached, IMO, erroneous conclusions about the above does not invalidate the facts he discovered or reported.

To date John has not responded to my challenge to disprove any of the facts Russo reported.

Let me try this analogy: On his famous voyage, Charles Darwin discovered a lot of "facts" about nature from which he developed his theory about evolution. His theory may or may not be correct. But even if his theory of evolution is wrong, that does not mean his facts were improperly recorded.

Even Professor Mellen does not disagree that Russo was an accurate investigative reporter.

And "Ultimate Sacrifice" carries Russo's research to the next step.

Russo argues LHO shot JFK because he discovered the U.S. actions against Castro. People who do not suscribe to the Castro did it scenario do not like Russo's book because if the facts he reports gave a Castro supporter a motive to shoot JFK, it also gave Castro the very same motive. But whether you agree with Russo's conclusions or not, or agree with my conclusions or not, you cannot argue with the facts his investigation revealed. All you can responsibly do is argue the significance of the facts.

---------------------------------------

Something very strange is going on here, and a whole bunch of "Clowns" keep fumbling around. And it is surely sufficient to convince ALL "Lurkers" that: Indeed there are a considerable number of "agenda driven" whacko/wing-nut "Conspiracy Theorists" onboard "This Train" ??!!

Does anybody at all remember that: Amongst the "Credits" listing consultants -- on Oliver Stone's "JFK" you will indeed find the name of one "Gus Ruso" [the "weenies took an "S" off of Gus' name and added it to mine, so I am since 1991 -- officially one "Gerald P. Hemmings"]

I may have a failing memory, but I don't see one name of any Forum member [save Jack White] amongst the credits listed in JFK -- could be wrong though ?!

The very first time I met Russo was: While some of us "Camelot Project" folks were standing in the middle of Dealey Plaza, the first week of filming. [about 50 feet up the embankment from the "Babushka Lady" position.] So here comes this guy strolling down from Houston & Main, wearing glasses, and carrying two cameras over his shoulders.

Just as I was asking him, if he was "on-the-job-with-the-project", a security "weenie" quickly approached and loudly declared: "...NO private citizens with cameras are permitted in this area...Sir !!" This immediately got me annoyed, and I asked the "S/Weenie" -- Just how did he know that this guy was a "private citizen" ?? He responded: "...Well...he doesn't have a "Camelot Badge"...that's how come I know.."!!

I told him to look around at the dozen of us standing there, and show how many of us had a "C/Badge"?? "...Well..I know all of you guys...I recognized y'all right away..". I politely told him to "Bugger Off", as we were ALL in wardrobe clothing, and NOT supposed to be filmed wearing any goddamned badges !! "..Oh...then he is one of the extras that carry cameras during the motorcade...?!

I then loudly told him that: What & who we were, was completely confidential -- he should scurry his tiny ass over to "Craft Services", freeload a Coke or coffee -- Or else !! Gone like the "Energizer Bunny" !!

Then I asked Russo exactly who the hell he was ?? He said that he had the OK from Stone to take some photos. I have never asked Oliver, Kitman Ho, "Beancounter" Townsend, or even Russo -- what the final contract for his services was. NOT in the last 15 years !!

However, he conducted himself same as the rest of us, in that Stone had a "daily-changing-script"; and we gave the advice we were paid to give. None of us ever argued against the plot-line theory. Stone and his people were the professionals, and this was HIS MOVIE; and NOT a documentary !! So, ever onward we went for the next few months !!

I don't recall anybody ever argueing with Groden, Rusconi, or anybody else about "facts", "evidence", nor "story-lines" -- that was NOT our job !!

My ongoing disagreements with Russo are many; and they include his failure to become more expert in matters concerning marksmanship, ballistics, tradecraft, and avoiding swallowing the 99% bullxxxx of the WC, HSCA, etc. so-called "reports" ??!!

The ONLY way he got interviews, especially with people had consistently refused interviews, was none would make thenselves available to inquiries before the 1990s !!

We pulled it off by showing loads of declassified documents, and convincing them that: They should help connect the dots -- because the "wrong" story was already in the public domain.

Anybody notice that Mike McLaney, whose brother Bill gathered together a suspicious group of people in the middle of LA. And at an "alleged training camp"no less ??!!; And where Richard Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, et al. were alleged to have been "raided" ??!! Never happened !! No training camp, NO raid !! The FBI guys "took-note-of" some empty 100 lbs. "Practice Bomb Casings", and some "tree-stump" removing dynamite. NO arrests, NO seizures, NO xxxx !!

Did we argue with Stone while plodding through the "muck & mire" of several useless "training camp" locations ??!! NO, because that wasn't our job !! Did we tell him that he was full of xxxx about said "FBI Raid" -- NO, because it was a 'MOVIE" !!

We drove him down to LaFitte, introduced him to the Mayor, and the owner of the property. He quickly got the OK to film alongside, and hook up cables to, a commercial radio tower. Howard Davis was put in charge of the 3 week task of building the "training camp".

I told him to first check with the U.S. Navy SEALS (Reserve) Company -- but they were busy, so we hired the Navy "Sea Bees" [Reserve Construction Battalion]. During the filming, Oliver took an immediate liking to the "Squids", doubled their $75 per day, and put them on camera. This has made them famous from Hurricane Andrew, to Afghanistan, and on to "Tsunami Relief" !! They are recognized throughout the USN/CB "Community" !!

It took 600+ interviews to do Russo's "Sword", and dozens of "insiders" spoke for the first time. Strange that those "guilty-looking" FBI suspects at a "training camp" turned out to be very close friends of the Kennedy clan ??!!

But, I guess Y'all missed most of that ??!! But I sure would like to hear some numbered paragraphs, which might refute at least some of the 600+ pages of "Sword". But, then again, with all of the wondrous scripture revealed so far [murder is solved, I guess]; so why waste more of anybody's time.

Now, we've got two fresh books, one of 900+ plus pages, and the other, I don't know -- but so far: All that I hear is a stream of libelous lies, prolix, non-sequiters, and agenda driven "groupie-groveling" !!

Could be wrong though, but I await the law firm's views on the matter !! "Danny-Boy" Sheehan went way beyond the "Ham Sandwich Indictment" bit -- with his ANYBODY can "Sue & Bankrupt" ANYBODY in this country; and do it -- even when losing the case !!

Chairs,

GPH

_____________________

Gerry:

Rumor that I heard was that you were too busy chasing Jane Rusconi up there around the 2701 Canton St. address, to have known what was going on down in Dealy Plaza.

Any truth to that rumor??????

Tom

-----------------------------------

Tom:

Even though my ex-spouse is here (reading in her room) -- I must admit that:

This self-styled-elderly-wannabe-CIA/FBI/GRU/KGB/YMCA "Girl Scouts of America" REJECT"-ego/driven Moi -- did indeed fancy himself as a reprobate "Stud" while "Hollywoodering". However, I took more interest in Lolita Davidovich, but Jim Leavelle and Bill Murray's brother (Ruby) edged me out of the "territory".

[Hell, even "Toshie" has my FBI file, which clearly shows that I had been courtmailed, and later "drummed-out" of the "Camp-Fire Girls" -- Sadly, I was convicted of having eaten a "Brownie" !!]

Besides, after my untoward kidney stone attack, which cost me a night at Baylor U. -- both my then wife, and my son -- rushed to Dallas from Fayetteville. My son Felipe, a firefighter/paramedic, then stayed on to work with the "Set Nurse", and her team.

So, that ended any dreams of any future "forageing" by this "snake-eater" !!

Chairs,

GPH

___________

[Dawn Meredith]

Dawn, of course I read Mellen's book cover to cover. It is replete with errors.

I have been having a difficult time accepting Mellen's thesis, as given by Angelo, that the Kennedy's were planning to kill Castro, while also planning peace talks. The email posted below is from longtime JFK assassination researcher and friend Steve Jones.

Dawn

Hi Dawn,

I spent a good bit of time this past week reflecting on that awful murder of

25 years ago and what I was doing in my life at the time. Has it really been

a quarter of a century?! There was a special 2hour ABC News special on it

that I taped and haven't watched yet.

Regarding Mellen's book. I heard her talk in Philly last week. She signed my

book with great praise for the little bit of help I gave her on her

research. But I have a lot of trouble with her premise about the "dual

strategy." She has basically only one source for this information, a former

anti-Castro Cuban whose story she seems to have bought hook, line and

sinker. The main documentary evidence, the CIA Inspector General's Report of

1967 on Cuba gives a different picture, indicating that the Kennedy's were

pretty much in the dark about the assassination plots. Even if they did know

about them there is strong evidence that the reproachmant tactic started to

take real precedence by 1963. This is exactly the case that Jim Douglass

will be making in his book that comes out toward the end of next year. Jim

uses the Biblical term "turning" to describe Kennedy's gradual

transformation from a hard nosed Cold Warrior, like all the other

politicians of his era, to someone who was genuinely concerned about ending

the Cold War and the arms race. Jim points out that the Cuban Missile Crisis

was the catalyst for this change. He was really shaken by the realization

that we had come so close to nuclear war and that he alone was ultimately

responsible for making the decision of whether or not to launch the atomic

weapons. Hence, his personal correspondence with Kruschev and his total

commitment to pushing through a nuclear test ban treaty beginning in late

'62 up until the time of his death.

I've spoken at length with Jim about the book, which he has read and I

haven't, and he completely disagrees with her assessment. I also recently

had dinner with Vince in which he stated his vehement disregard for her book

and told me that she refused to share with him any of the book when he had

offered to proof read it for her. Vince believes that she didn't want him to

see the angle she was taking because she knew Vince could give her evidence

to the contrary which she didn't want to hear.

Jim DiEugenio also told me that he is highly disappointed in the book and is

going to have a full review on the revamped CTKA web site early next year.

Steve