FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Len Colby]

Griffin needs to take a closer look at the evidence from the Moussaoui trial, it indicated there were five calls to unknown numbers (the 9/11 Comm. said 4)

57. The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of four "connected calls to unknown numbers" represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband's office (all family members of the Flight 77 passengers and crew were canvassed to see if they had received any phone calls from the hijacked flight, and only Renee May's parents and Ted Olson indicated that they had received such calls). The four calls were at 9:15:34 for 1 minute, 42 seconds; 9:20:15 for 4 minutes, 34 seconds; 9:25:48 for 2 minutes, 34 seconds; and 9:30:56 for 4 minutes, 20 seconds. FBI report,"American Airlines Airphone Usage," Sept. 20, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Theodore Olson, Sept. 11, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Helen Voss, Sept. 14, 2001;AAL response to the Commission's supplemental document request, Jan. 20, 2004.

Footnote 57 to Chapter 1, 9/11 Commission Report

Len,

It seems to me that Griffin did take a "closer look", because he covered the calls you describe.

That he missed it the 1st time is yet another example of his sloppiness, he has a history of making careless errors and then rationalizing them post hoc.

The 9/11 Commission description you posted was not trial "evidence"....it was a part of a seperate proceeding, and seems irrelevant to a criminal court proceeding.

It wasn't from the trial but the graphic was from the evidence you supposedly poured over. It gave an explanation similar to the one given at trial, they were unable to determine which of the calls were between the Olsons .

If you were on that jury, how convincing would "unknown calls" seem....is there anything that offers evidence they were received in or routed to Olson's DOJ office? Is there any info detailing how many calls the DOJ received in that morning hour, or any morning?

This was not under dispute, perhaps if it were greater effort would have been put into tracking down the evidence. Presumably the DoJ gets lots of phones calls every day and got more than normal that morning. You do know the jury voted to convict?

Is there any explanation as to why the calls could not be identified, or how the presented info was obtained? Is there any proof that any calls came from seatback phones on that 757?

All 6 of the call were from Airphones, I thought you studied this carefully. The "proof" is that is what GTE says, what evidence would allay your doubts? I'm not sure why 5 of the calls could not be IDed, I have zero experience with Airphones and the emitting end of phone billing. Now if the Gov't had put this elaborate plot into place including among other details getting GTE to lie, why not just say the calls had been IDed as going to the DoJ?

Do you think the pilot allowed himself to be removed from the cockpit?

Pilots were trained to comply with hijackers, none had martyred themselves 9/11 style yet, they also probably used a bomb threat like they did on flights 11 and 175. Barbara Olson could have been mistaken and he might have been killed and she could have seen the co-pilot

The point about Ted Olson is that he is a rabidly partisan "fixer".....always there....since 1981, for the cause....to put out fires...and he told the SCOTUS that it is appropriate foe the government to officially lie to the people......

You think he was part off a conspiracy to murder his own wife? If there was any evidence they weren't getting along the truthers haven't found it yet.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/amrarticle.html

....As we mentioned earlier, the FBI report on phone calls from AA planes on 9/11 does not cite records from the DOJ showing that any calls from AA 77 were received that morning. Instead, the FBI report refers merely to four “connected calls to unknown numbers.” The 9/11 Commission, putting the best possible spin on this report, commented: “The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office.”27 That is, it must be said, a very strange conclusion: If Ted Olson reported receiving only two calls, why would the Commission conclude that the DOJ had received four connected calls from his wife?

I guess these two clowns have never called a place and not gotten throught to who they wanted to speak to, thinks were very hectic that morning.

That conclusion is, in any case, starkly contradicted by evidence about phone calls from Flight 77 presented by the US government at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in 2006.28 Far from attributing all four of the “connected calls to unknown numbers” to Barbara Olson, as the 9/11 Commission suggested, the government’s evidence here attributes none of them to her, saying instead that each of them was from an “unknown caller.”

This isn't a contradiction between the trial exhibit and footnote from the report. Both indicate the destination of the calls could not be determined. The worst you could say is that apart from Olson's testimony the evidence is weak. But 4 calls were made and no one else reported getting calls from the flight except Renee May's mother.

The only call attributed to Barbara Olson, moreover, is an “unconnected call” to the Department of Justice, which was said to have been attempted at “9:18:58” and to have lasted “0 seconds.” According to the US government in 2006, in other words, Barbara Olson attempted a call to the DOJ, but it did not go through.29 The government itself has presented evidence in a court of law, therefore, that implies that unless its former solicitor general was the victim of two faked phone calls, he was lying

I have no idea how they reached this conclusion from the available evidence, they don't seem to understand the word "unkown"

Flight 77 Pilot, "Chic" Burlingame:

...He was a 1971 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and an honor graduate of the Navy "Top Gun" school, in Miramar, California. He flew F-4 Phantoms for the Navy and served aboard the USS Saratoga. He continued military service as a reserve officer retiring at the rank of Captain in 1996...

...His family is certain that hijackers killed Chic on 9/11 before his plane crashed into the Pentagon, that there is no way he would have crashed the plane himself into that building -- even with knives at his throat.

"The Pentagon was hallowed ground to him," Brad said.

That's because Chic was a Navy man who had once worked at the Pentagon when he was in the Navy Reserves. ...

Of course his family would like to think he acted heroically, but he probably would have done as he was trained especially if they said they had a bomb. Fighting in the cockpit would also put the plane at risk of crashing. No one believes any of the 8 airline pilots were flying the planes anyway. And they could have right and Barbara Olson saw the co-pilot.

[Jack White]

At the very least the fake AF1 flyover Manhattan was really dumb. But is the AF/govt really that stupid? How did they possibly think they could carry off such a maneuver without terrifying the citizens of NYC? Especially, as it has been pointed out, as the plane was not only flying at low altitude but at a slower speed.

These actions certainly open the door to the question of whether or not, despite the 'photo-op' cover scenario, this event was used to test the reactions of the citizens of NYC. I hope I am mistaken, because to do so deliberately would be hideous. Nonetheless, it is possible to evaluate the public response and use it to some advantage in the future.

The differences between this event and 9/11 are, first, nobody was expecting planes to be flying into buildings prior to 9/11, and people were not on guard. Now they are.

Second, the 9/11 planes were apparently flying at full speed when they crashed into the WTC towers. This plane was flying at a slower speed. The engine sound would probably have been much more noticeable at a slower speed; not to mention that people could track the plane more easily.

Lastly, let's not forget the recent Miracle on the Hudson. New Yorkers have had their share of spooky and horrific plane events.

The higher the speed, the louder the engines. Pam has it backwards.

Jack

[Len Colby]

We've been over this before Jack several witnesses commented on the noise made by the 767's.

Since they have 2 engines they would presumablly make less noise than the heavier 4 engine 747. 175 the faster of the two flew high over NJ and only started to dive towards the end. Diving naturaly increases airspeed and the last couple of miles were over the Hudson.

Jack should have remembered this we went over it less than a year ago. Adapted from a July 08 post -

Witness accounts below compiled by Mark Roberts. There are too many eyewitness accounts to easily count of them about 17 specificlly mention the noise. Some of the others were quite distant (Brooklyn, NJ, St. Vincent’s Hospital). I guess they were all hallucinating, saw a hologram or are in on it, after all most of them are fire fighters and scumbag Alex Jones says they were In on the murder of thousands of their fellow citizens and hundreds of their colleagues, then lied about.

Links to the sources and witness accounts of the 1st crash can be found here: http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whattheysa...ountsofthenycai

UA Flight 175 Impact

At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I HEARD A LOUD ROAR OF A JET, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. We stepped over small airplane aviation parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at the building.

FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro

At that time, I started walking towards Engine 3. Engine 3 drove south to the south pedestrian bridge to make a U turn to come back and as I'm walking towards the Engine to find out what Lieutenant Walsh wanted us to do, I HEARD THE SOUND OF A JET PLANE. I looked up and saw it pretty close and I was like holy xxxx. What's going on with the with the flight patterns. All of a sudden, the wings turned and it dove right into the building and it was screwed up.

At that time Chief Ganci was behind me and he thought there was another explosion in the north tower and that's when I turned around and said Chief, listen, there is a second plane that hit the other tower. He was like no no no no, we have another explosion. I said no, Chief, I witnessed it. I watched the plane hit the other tower. He is like are you sure. I said Chief, I'm 100 hundred percent positive I watched the second plane hit the other tower.

FDNY firefighter Scott Holowach

Upon that time I HEARD A PLANE ROAR. I had my window down and on my side we saw a plane flying very low come right across us and with A LOUD, YOU KNOW, THE ENGINES REVVED UP, and I had mentioned to him, I had no idea that it was heading towards that way, and I just said like where is this guy going, you know, he was extremely low, not realizing it was another plane heading towards the World Trade, and we saw it struck the building, we saw a big mushroom of flame, of fire coming up, and it was like disbelief, and he had gotten on the radio and notified the dispatcher another plane had struck the World Trade Center.

FDNY firefighter Stephen Zasa

"While assisting a female burn victim, I observed PO Rivero look up towards the WTC tower #2. At this time the undersigned HEARD THE SOUND OF JET ENGINES and observed an aircraft with a blue color tail fly directly into the south face of WTC Tower #2. Following the impact an enormous explosion occurred causing debris to begin to fall down all around the WTC complex."

PAPD PO James Hall Source (pg. 5)

"We were standing with the chief and we heard somebody yell, 'There's another plane!'" Mosiello recalled. "THEN IT CAME INTO THE RANGE OF MY HEARING. AND IT SOUNDED LOUDER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER AND THERE IT WAS ... it went right into the building, into (the south tower). Now we have a real problem on our hands. We have two buildings hit by planes. Thousands and thousands of people trapped."

–FDNY Chief's assistant Steve Mosiello Source

After the first plane hit the World Trade Center, New York City firefighter Craig Gutkes was part of a ladder company in Brooklyn that was called in to Manhattan. When he was still on the Brooklyn side, HIS COMPANY SAW THE SECOND PLANE ROAR OVER THEIR HEADS, "IT SOUNDED LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN," he said. They watched that plane plow into Tower No. 2.

Source

The second plane came in. IT WAS THE BIGGEST NOISE I EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE.

Q. Did you see the plane?

A. Yeah. WE SAW IT, WE HEARD IT, WE FELT THE HEAT FROM IT, THE DEBRIS.

FDNY EMT Sean Cunniffe

Rich Bautista, 56, a construction consultant, was headed to a 9 a.m. appointment on 59 Maiden Lane, two blocks away from the World Trade Center, when he heard the first blast. "It was so fast, IT WAS SO LOUD," he recalls. "I just came out of the Fulton Street subway when I heard this terrifying explosion. I looked up and saw smoke surrounding the World Trade Center. People started running. There was mass hysteria." Bautista's co-worker Ernie Kneuer, 29, saw flames pouring out of the building. They went up to the 40th floor of their building just in time to see the second plane collide.

Source

Q. The second plane?

A. I saw it coming in, I HEARD IT, and bang, it hit.

FDNY Firefighter Thomas Gaby

At this moment HEARING A COMING SOUND I RAISED MY HEAD. No! This is not happening. A big passenger jet was right above me. It was a blink of an eye. A fraction of second later the airplane disappeared inside WTC tower. I was standing at the base of the building that was the target of terrorist attack. There was no place take the cover. It was to late to run away. All I could do was just to cover my head with my bare hands and wait for the miracle. Parts of the building and from the airplane were falling on the street around me.

Maciej Swulinski Source

Then someone pointed and said "look." It was at that point that I saw another plane. We were all wondering where it was going. In horror, we all watched as it hit the second tower. I WILL NEVER GET THAT SOUND OR THAT VISION OUT OF MY HEAD.

Bonnie Source

I looked out my bedroom window and saw the second plane HURTLING FULL POWER across New York harbor, flying low, tilted almost sideways, apparently coming right for me. When it passed over my building to pierce the South Tower, my reaction became a tiny piece of NBC News's coverage of the day.

Eliott Walker, Today Show producer Source

Police guided us across the West Side Highway, then WE HEARD A LOUD ROAR and looked up to see a second jet headed right for the south tower. WE HEARD THE ENGINES SPEED UP as it turned sideways and hit the corner of the building head on. It looked like it melted into a fireball.

–Carl Cuneff Source

One of the officers behind me said, "Oh my God, Tracey, another airplane is coming!" I COULD HEAR THE PLANE JUST COMING AND COMING, AND THE ENGINE WAS GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER. Then I heard it hit the South Tower. There was a shower of debris and parts of the plane... Airplane parts were falling and crushing police cars...

–NYPD Officer Tracey Donahoo Source

All of a sudden WE BEGAN TO HEAR WHAT SOUNDED LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN GOING OVER OUR BUILDING. It looked more like a missile until the last second when the plane banked on its side and we saw the two wings as it plunged right into the 2nd tower. The building swayed on impact and we felt the heat and the blast shock like it was a slap in the face.

Kevin J. Dabulis Source

I was standing with my colleagues, staring in horror at the smoke and fire coming out of the south side of 1 World Trade Center, when, WITH A ROAR, A HUGE BOEING 767 FLEW LOW OVER MY LEFT SHOULDER and slipped into the second tower (see CNN video link below, you'll hear roar and understand what I mean by slipped). Screaming, I fled away, not conscious of the explosion or the fireball that resulted.

Barry Drogin: My Personal September 11 Page

[Pamela Brown]

On 911, few noticed any loud noise of a jetliner flying low overhead Manhattan.

But a military photo-op points out the OBVIOUS, according to Morgan Reynolds:

..............from Morgan Reynolds

Panic in lower Manhattan: few missed hearing and many saw this 747 jetliner fly over/near event yesterday in lower Manhattan, despite the Air Force One Boeing backup flying at far lower speeds than the alleged kamikaze 767 wide-body jetliners on 9/11.

Makes a man wonder why so few witnesses claimed that they saw or heard jetliners in lower Manhattan on 9/11 despite far higher speeds claimed, at lower altitudes with ear-splitting, window-rattling noise from full-throttle engines? Don't the data from this event put the defenders of 9/11 airplane orthodoxy in a new bind? The NIST/media 9/11 airplane crash fraud is once again exposed as a naked lie.

Air Force One Low Flyover Causes Panic In Lower Manhattan

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com

Posted by JacobSloan 16 hours ago

The New York Times reports:

An Air Force One lookalike flew low over parts of [lower Manhattan] on Monday morning, accompanied by two F-16 fighters, so Air Force photographers could take pictures.

But the exercise — conducted without any notification to the public — caused momentary panic in some quarters and led to the evacuation of several buildings in Lower Manhattan and Jersey City. By the afternoon, the situation had turned into a political fuse box, with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg saying that he was "furious" that he had not been told in advance about the flyover. When President Obama learned of the episode on Monday afternoon, aides said, he, too, was furious.

[At 1 Liberty Plaza] Johnny Villafane, 42, said, "The plane did a 360. There was a vibration. The glass in the skyscrapers was shivering." He added, "It sounded like the building were cracking, everything started shaking. I thought the plane was coming down."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/...new-york-nerve/

We've been over this before Jack several witnesses commented on the noise made by the 767's.

Since they have 2 engines they would presumablly make less noise than the heavier 4 engine 747. 175 the faster of the two flew high over NJ and only started to dive towards the end. Diving naturaly increases airspeed and the last couple of miles were over the Hudson.

You've brought up another interesting point. The 757 engines have a rather distinct whine, similar to the DC-10 engines. The 747 engines have more of a traditional jet engine sound. Wonder if that made a difference?

[Evan Burton]

You've brought up another interesting point. The 757 engines have a rather distinct whine, similar to the DC-10 engines. The 747 engines have more of a traditional jet engine sound. Wonder if that made a difference?

I can't give you any particular technical explanation, but different aircraft do sound different. For helicopters, the "whomp whomp" sound of a UH-1 is very distinctive. Other helicopters sound different. It's easy for me to tell whether it is a Sea king, a Seahawk, a Squirrel, etc. Same with fixed wing aircraft. A HS-748 turboprop sounds very different to a DHC-8 turboprop. Same for jets.

The difference in sound for the turbofans probably has to do with blade design, and by-pass ratio.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Len,

Some info relevant to our debate I've posted here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=166633

It is new to me, or I would have posted it here already. Please consider it and I look forward to your analysis of it and reaction to it. Here are timely 2001 to 2002, reports of Ted Olson descriptions, and may they help you to better understand why I think he is more than a reasonably suspected as being part of a conspiracy of distortion:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050410234208/...equestid=147907

http://web.archive.org/web/20071213210413/...05/folsen05.xml

'She asked me how to stop the plane'

(Filed: 05/03/2002)

US Solicitor General Ted Olson's wife, Barbara, was the first victim of the September 11 terrorist attacks to be named. He tells Toby Harnden of her bravery during her final call from the hijacked plane - and of his determination to fight back

...That morning, a nightmare began to unfold in the room where we are now sitting. "Someone rushed in and told me what had happened. I went into the other room, where there's a television," Olson says. "It went through my mind, 'My God, maybe - Barbara's on an airplane, and two airplanes have been crashed', you know."

Then his secretary told him that Barbara was on the line. "My first reaction when I heard she was on the phone was relief, because I knew that she wasn't on one of those two airplanes." But Barbara then explained calmly that she had been herded to the back of the Boeing 757 she was on, along with the other passengers.

"She had had trouble getting through, because she wasn't using her cellphone, she was using the phone in the passengers' seats," says Olson. "I guess she didn't have her purse, because she was calling collect, and she was trying to get through to the Department of Justice, which is never very easy."

He was able to tell her about the World Trade Centre attacks before the line went dead, then he called his departmental command centre to let them know another plane had been hijacked. The phone rang again and it was Barbara.

"She wanted to know, 'What can I tell the pilot? What can I do? How can I stop this?' I tried to find out where she thought she was - I wanted to know where the airplane was and what direction it was going in, because I thought that was the first step to being able to do something....

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...0%9D&cf=all

'She asked me how to stop the plane'

Telegraph.co.uk - Mar 5, 2002

A LITTLE over two months after his wife was killed on September 11, Ted Olson, the Solicitor General of the United States, received a photograph from the US ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010918033954/...09/091701i.html

Washington:

Terror Strikes the Supreme Court

By Tony Mauro

American Lawyer Media

September 17, 2001

At his office in the Justice Department, Solicitor General Theodore Olson had just signed off on a brief in a pending tax case. At the U.S. Supreme Court, Chief Justice William Rehnquist was presiding over what could have been a contentious meeting of the U.S. Judicial Conference. Downstairs, the clerk's office was settling in for a routine day, including the handling of a last-minute death row appeal from Texas.

Within moments on Sept. 11, the Supreme Court community, which likes to think it stands apart from the rest of Washington, D.C., was swept inexorably into the awful vortex of the nation's day of terror.

The institution shut down, with Court police scrambling to the rooftop armed with shotguns to face off against threats unknown. The Judicial Conference meeting was ended abruptly, and a death penalty lawyer in Texas was left frantically calling the clerk's office to no avail. The governor of Texas finally stayed the execution because of the high court's unavailability.

But no one became more tragically involved than the solicitor general himself. His wife of five years, Barbara, the outspoken conservative commentator, was on the American Airlines flight that crashed into the Pentagon.

It was just as the World Trade Center attacks were unfolding that someone in the solicitor general's office took a phone call from Barbara Olson. Ted Olson's longtime assistant, Helen Voss, raced into the SG's office to tell him that Barbara was on the line, sounding panicked. He picked up the phone and exclaimed, "What, you've been hijacked?" She was calling on her cell phone from aboard the jet, which had just left Dulles Airport. Voss says, "My heart sank." The call ended abruptly, but then Barbara called again, reportedly asking her husband, "What should I tell the pilot?" It was a comment that friends have taken as a sign that she was characteristically trying to find a solution to the crisis. The pilot, along with passengers, had apparently been herded into the back of the plane.

Olson reported the conversation to the Justice Department's command center. After the second call ended, Olson and Voss turned on a television set in his office, unsure what else could be done.

When news came of a plane crashing into the Pentagon, Olson turned to Voss and said, "That's Barbara's plane." Voss adds, "Then he said something I will not repeat." Soon after, Olson headed home to Great Falls, Va.

Meanwhile, the Justice Department building was being evacuated, leaving many of Olson's colleagues in the tight-knit solicitor general's office initially unaware that their boss had been struck by tragedy.

"We had no inkling at first," says another lawyer in the office. "We were just coming up to the time when we thought we would be gathering for a joyous occasion -- former SG] Seth Waxman's son's bar mitzvah. Now this. We will be gathering for a memorial service. It's the cycle of life."

Waxman's son Ethan will be bar mitzvahed on Oct. 6. Now at Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering, Waxman says he had talked to Olson the night before. "The last thing I said to him was to be sure and give Barbara a hug for me," Waxman recalls.

Among Olson's network of friends, word spread quickly that his wife had likely perished. Virginia Lamp Thomas got a call from a mutual friend as she was driving in Virginia. She returned home and collected her husband, Justice Clarence Thomas, and they headed immediately for Olson's house. "We wanted to hold him," says Virginia Thomas. She and Justice Thomas, joined by his adopted grandnephew, Mark, stayed with Olson at his home for hours.

Justice Thomas is known as an intensely loyal friend who will drop everything in times of need. "They are one of our closest sets of friends, definitely on the A-list," says Virginia Thomas.

They came to know Barbara through Ted, just before Thomas was appointed to the high court. She fast became one of Thomas' most ardent supporters. "We didn't know her all that well at the time," Virginia Thomas recalls, but around the time of the confirmation, "she was in constant battle mode."

Soon joining Olson at his house was former Solicitor General Kenneth Starr, who had known Barbara Olson since before she met Ted Olson. "Ted was remarkably strong," says Starr. "He wants to talk about Barbara in a community, so he has welcomed friends, remembering the wonderful occasions they had together."

Also converging on Olson's house were CNN correspondent Tim O'Brien and his wife, Petie, also longtime friends. "There was no choice. You just go, even though there is nothing you can really say. Your presence is what counts," says O'Brien.

Friends who were on hand or helping with arrangements for a memorial service include Alice Starr, wife of Kenneth Starr, and Mary Ellen Bork, wife of former SG Robert Bork. Members of an informal monthly lunch group that included Barbara Olson, Virginia Thomas, and several Republican and Capitol Hill staffers also gathered quickly. At press time, plans for a memorial service in Arlington, Va., included remarks by Thomas, Bork, and J. Michael Luttig, a judge in the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Back at the Supreme Court, well-rehearsed security plans were being executed, with armed Court police manning several stations around the building....

Tony Mauro is Supreme Court correspondent for American Lawyer Media and Legal Times.

I recall reading a theory that the "hijackers with box cutters as primary weapons" message, was a device to minimize the liability of the airlines and put the onus on the government, because pre-boarding passenger inspection guidelines did not

prohibit this type of device from being carried on board passenger aircraft. In the aftermath of 9/11, the regulatory reaction went so far in the more resrtictive direction that plastic eating utensils in the shape of harmless plastic "knives" were banned.

With all of the government fingered perps in the hijackings dead in the aftermath, wouldn't the government, whether or not it's members or agents were active participants in the hijackings and crashes, need a backstory like the one quickly spread by Ted Olson, to enhance and support the official versions of events? Who better than ole "Ted the fixer", to do it?

http://www.sf911truth.org/monographs/Box%2...5B4-page%5D.pdf

....Within 24 hours of the September 11th attacks an account that the alleged hijackers had used

box cutters as weapons became the prevailing one as to how the airliners were commandeered.

The account of box cutters being used, nearly to the exclusion of all other accounts, remains almost

universally held to this day. This account was apparently inferred or insinuated from reports like this

one, which the Washington Post ran on its front page on September 12, 2001:

Herded to the back of the plane by hijackers armed with knives and box-cutters, the passengers and

crew members of American Airlines Flight 77 -- including the wife of Solicitor General Theodore

Olson . . . [see note 1 below]

But according to a statement issued on January 27, 2004 by the National Commission on

Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States [henceforward, "National Commission" or "Commission"],

there is no evidence for box cutters having been used on three of the four hijacked flights, revealing

that a central legend of the attacks has been mostly speculation. The Commission stated clearly

that there had been only one report of box cutters having been used in the September 11th

hijackings and that that report had come from a single call from American Airlines Flight 77. The

National Commission's Staff Statement No. 4, "The Four Flights," states:

With regard to reports from crew and passengers, knives were cited on all four flights. The threat of

a bomb was reported on Flights 11, 175, and 93. Box cutters were specifically indicated only in one

report, from Flight 77. [see note 2 below]

This detail, of box cutters being reported on only one flight and originating from a single phone call,

has yet to enter the awareness of the general public.

Cable News Network [CNN] had reported on September 12, 2001 who had received that call.

Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator and attorney, alerted her husband, Solicitor General

Ted Olson, that the plane she was on was being hijacked Tuesday morning, Ted Olson told CNN.

A short time later the plane crashed into the Pentagon. Barbara Olson is presumed to have died

in the crash.

Her husband said she called him twice on a cell phone from American Airlines Flight 77, which

was en route from Washington Dulles International Airport to Los Angeles.

Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots,

were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were

knives and cardboard cutters. She felt nobody was in charge and asked her husband to tell the pilot

what to do. [see note 3 below]

The 9/11 Commission Report confirmed that person to have been Ted Olson.

At some point between 9:16 and 9:26, Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor

general of the United States. She reported that the flight had been hijacked, and the hijackers had

knives and box cutters. [see note 4 below]

The Commission reconfirmed this fact in an endnote to chapter 1 of its report.

The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which

of four "connected calls to unknown numbers" represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson,

although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara and her

husband's office . . . [see note 6 below]

The conclusion to be drawn from these few facts, is an ultra-extraordinary coincidence -- that

the sole living individual, upon whom the claim that the 9/11 hijackers used box cutters, is Theodore

Olson, the attorney who represented George Bush at the US Supreme Court in the case [bush v.

Gore] which resulted in him acceding to the presidency.

Addenda...

....2. "The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of

which of four 'connected calls to unknown numbers' represent the two between Barbara and Ted

Olson although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara

and her husband's office . . . " [see note 6 above].

The Commission could not determine "using the records available" which calls were made to

Ted Olson's office number at the Department of Justice. What records, if any, were unavailable?

What is the basis for the FBI's and the DoJ's belief, if "the records available" "do not allow for a

determination"? Four calls? Unknown numbers? Unknown to whom? One would expect the

phone company to know. Why this unnecessary level of ambiguity and vagueness in a matter

conducive to greater clarity?

3. Yet another apparent discrepancy exists between the account in the Washington Post on the day

after the attacks:

"Herded to the back of the plane by hijackers armed with knives and box-cutters, the passengers

and crew members of American Airlines Flight 77 . . . were ordered to call relatives to say they were

about to die [see note 1 above];

and both that in the text of the 9/11 Commission Report:

She [barbara Olson] further indicated that the hijackers were not aware of her phone call [see note 4

above];

and that in an endnote to the first chapter of the 9/11 Commission Report:

only Renee May's parents and Ted Olson indicated that they had received any such calls [see note 6

above].

Edited April 30, 2009 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

You've brought up another interesting point. The 757 engines have a rather distinct whine, similar to the DC-10 engines. The 747 engines have more of a traditional jet engine sound. Wonder if that made a difference?

I can't give you any particular technical explanation, but different aircraft do sound different. For helicopters, the "whomp whomp" sound of a UH-1 is very distinctive. Other helicopters sound different. It's easy for me to tell whether it is a Sea king, a Seahawk, a Squirrel, etc. Same with fixed wing aircraft. A HS-748 turboprop sounds very different to a DHC-8 turboprop. Same for jets.

The difference in sound for the turbofans probably has to do with blade design, and by-pass ratio.

Both 9/11 hijacked planes crashed into the WTC were Boeing 767-200 series models equipped with engines similar

in size and thrust to the engines on Air Force One. The 747 in this week's controversy over NYC is one of two aircraft

that is regularly designated as "Air Force One" when the president is on board, or as VC-25 when he is not:

Air Force One Engine Specs:

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131

Power Plant: Four General Electric CF6-80C2B1

http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/cf6/cf6-80c2.html

Max. Power at Sea Level (Lb.): 52,500 - 63,500

Overall Pressure ratio at Maximum Power: 27.1 - 31.8

Bypass Ratio: 5 - 5.31

Flight 11, a Boeing 767-223 was flown into the WTC on 9/11:

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_de...erican+Airlines

CF6-80A2

http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/cf6/cf6-80a.html

Max. Power at Sea Level (Lb.): 48,000 - 50,000

Overall Pressure ratio at Maximum Power: 27.3 - 28.4

Bypass Ratio: 4.59 - 4.66

Flight 11, a Boeing 767-223 was flown into the WTC on 9/11

Both models use engines of the same GE CF6- "family"..... Air Force One is equipped with twice as many

engines as either Flight 175 (powered by Pratt & Whitney engined of similar thrust,,,) or Flight 11 was, and

although newer, the Air Force One engines produce up to 20 percent more thrust than the older Flight 11 engines.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Tom Scully

[Evan Burton]

Good points, Tom. Under similar conditions, the engines should sound similar. The main differences we have now are power setting and airspeed. What do you think - would they make a great difference? What difference would they make, if anything?

[Len Colby]

You've brought up another interesting point. The 757 engines have a rather distinct whine, similar to the DC-10 engines. The 747 engines have more of a traditional jet engine sound. Wonder if that made a difference?

I can't give you any particular technical explanation, but different aircraft do sound different. For helicopters, the "whomp whomp" sound of a UH-1 is very distinctive. Other helicopters sound different. It's easy for me to tell whether it is a Sea king, a Seahawk, a Squirrel, etc. Same with fixed wing aircraft. A HS-748 turboprop sounds very different to a DHC-8 turboprop. Same for jets.

The difference in sound for the turbofans probably has to do with blade design, and by-pass ratio.

Both 9/11 hijacked planes crashed into the WTC were Boeing 767-200 series models equipped with engines similar

in size and thrust to the engines on Air Force One. The 747 in this week's controversy over NYC is one of two aircraft

that is regularly designated as "Air Force One" when the president is on board, or as VC-25 when he is not:

I agree with Evan, good research but as this point it is irrelevant because the White-Reynolds claim that witnesses didn't report hearing the 767's on 9/11 is incorrect. Even within the "truth" movement "no planers" are considered crackpots.

[Len Colby]

Tom

Once again I'm at a loss in trying to figure out the relevance of your post to our discussion or what you think the posted articles prove. You and others here think the calls never took place the above is only marginally related to that premise.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Tom

Once again I'm at a loss in trying to figure out the relevance of your post to our discussion or what you think the posted articles prove. You and others here think the calls never took place the above is only marginally related to that premise.

Len,

Ted Olson is a rabidly right "monster" who practices a "two tier" standard for "justice"....one for the powerful, and a much harsher one for everyone else.

In the first few .pdf pages (begins on page 4) of this newly released, 74 page "clump" of 9/11 Commission gathered records, there is an easily understood explanation of how 9/11 airfone calls were charged and credit card numbers for the transactions logged, as well an investigative report of the details of the "collect call" from Barbara Olson, received with "CHARGES ACCEPTED" by the named DOJ "fill in" employee who answered phones in Ted Olson's office on the morning of 9/11.

Several times, Barbara Olson is described as sounding "panicked", by the two DOJ employees who claimed to hear her voice on the telephone, but husband Ted stated that his wife sounded "calm".....

....The offices of the DOJ telephone services provider's billing record would be a reasonable and forthright evidence exhibit

in the 2006 prosecution of Moussaoui....instead a .swf animated flash presentation, omitting mention of the collect call to

Olson's DOJ office, with the charges accepted per DOJ employee, Lori Lynn Keaton's statement to the FBI...(Page 9)

It obviously would have been a simple matter for the DOJ to provide the FBI or 9/11 investigative staff with the billing record of the charges for accepting Barbara Olson's call......since it is policy for the government to be unaccountable in it's pronouncements, and in it's acts of aggression, according to Ted Olson, no such information was offered, or even solicited by investigators.... Compare this info, Len, to your "Moussaoui was convicted by the jury", reply to my prior criticism of

the .swf file of "unconnected, unidentified" telephone calls assumed to be from Barbara Olson to the DOJ.

http://911myths.com/images/2/2a/Team7_Box1...llNotes302s.pdf

Page 8 of 74

...Earlier today approximately 9:00am, Ted Olson of his

assistant, Helen Voss, called the DOJ Command Center and requested a

security offiver come to Ted Olson's Office. Ferber did not receive

the call, but was asked to go to Ted Olson's office. The information he

got was that Ted Olson's wife, Barbara Olson, was on a plane the was

hijackked. He was told that the hikackers had knives and that the passengers

had been herded to the back of the plane.

He arrived at Ted Olson's office shortly after. Ted Olson

had already received two (2) calls from Barbara Olsen.

Ferber sat and watched the television coverage of the World Trade

Center (WTC) terrorist attack with Ted Olson for approximately ten (10)

minutes. Ferber left the office before the coverage of the Pentagon plane crash....

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/19/us/widow...-officials.html

Widow Argues for Right to Sue Officials

By LINDA GREENHOUSE

Published: Tuesday, March 19, 2002

....Jennifer K. Harbury, the Harvard Law School-educated widow of a Guatemalan rebel leader, argued in the Supreme Court today for the right to sue government officials who did not tell her all they knew about his capture, torture and death at the hands of the Guatemalan military in the early 1990's.

Ms. Harbury argued that had the officials told her that her husband, Efraín Bámaca-Velásquez, who was assumed to be dead, was being held secretly by Guatemalans working with the Central Intelligence Agency, she could have gone to court in time to intervene and save his life.

The officials of the State Department, National Security Council and the C.I.A. told her they had no information ''when in fact there was so much information that I could have been inside a court in 24 hours,'' Ms. Harbury said. She said it was ironic that her case had reached ''the highest court in the land, exactly 10 years and 6 days too late.''

Her reference was to the date of Mr. Bámaca's disappearance, March 12, 1992. The Guatemalan army first claimed that he had committed suicide, but the grave that Ms. Harbury received permission to open did not contain his body. Senator Robert G. Torricelli, Democrat of New Jersey, then a member of the House of Representatives, released classified information in 1995 indicating that Mr. Bámaca had been killed on orders from a Guatemalan army officer who was a paid intelligence agency ''asset.'' Ms. Harbury's lawsuit, filed the next year, argued that had she known the truth, she could have obtained an injunction to stop the payments....

....Solicitor General Theodore B. Olson, arguing on their behalf for the federal government, warned that to accept the theory of Ms. Harbury's case would open government officials to the prospect of liability for a constitutional violation for any reason that those officials were not fully responsive to citizen inquiries..

''There are lots of different situations when the government has legitimate reasons to give out false information,'' Mr. Olson said.

If a government official lies, ''there are ways to deal with it,'' like through official discipline, short of an ''expensive and burdensome'' constitutional lawsuit, he said. The result, he said, would be ''a regime of 'no comment' or brushoffs, the precise antithesis of the open government the framers envisioned.''

Ms. Harbury replied that she was not arguing for a general constitutional rule of candor, but more specifically for a rule that makes officials liable for affirmatively deceiving a citizen in a way calculated to discourage the filing of a lawsuit...

....Several justices today questioned whether Ms. Harbury would have been able to accomplish anything had she been able to file a suit while her husband was still alive.

''Access to court to do what?'' Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg asked.

Ms. Harbury said she would have sought an injunction that would have prohibited the C.I.A. from ''requesting and paying for continued information being extracted by torture of a living prisoner.''

The argument was marked by unusual intervals of silence, when Ms. Harbury paused and the justices seemed reluctant to ask her more questions.

During her search for information, she staged several hunger strikes that drew attention to her husband's plight. She now works for a rural legal assistance program in Texas.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics...d-43594177.html

Ted Olson: “Torture” probes will never end

By: Byron York

Chief Political Correspondent

04/23/09 9:00 PM

..."It seems irrational and incomprehensible to me," Olson told me this week. "They have started something they can't stop, now that it's out. And what conceivable good can it do?"

Olson, who served as Solicitor General in the Bush Justice Department but was not involved in War on Terror policy decisions, knows all the figures involved. "What they were doing was endeavoring in every legal, conceivable way to protect people from being slaughtered," Olson said. "I'm not going to comment on whether it's good or bad to do things like this, but from what I understand, there was a very high level of concern regarding credible threats of imminent terrorist attacks that justified efforts to seek additional methods of interrogation."

As we talked, Olson ticked off what might lie ahead. If there is a 9/11-style commission, prospective members will have to be found, appointed, vetted, cleared of conflicts of interest, given security clearances -- and that's just for the eminences on the panel. Full-time staff will have to be recruited, and they will go through the same sort of scouring. Then commission will have to find office space and a SCIF. (For those unfamiliar with Washington security culture, that's a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility -- a totally sealed room for the handling of the most highly classified information.) There will be hearings, and subpoenas, and witnesses, and draft reports and final reports.

"And then," Olson added, "if they do that, many people are going to say you can't stop with John Yoo or Alberto Gonzales. You're going to have to investigate every member of Congress who was briefed on this, what their notes were, what records they kept, who they talked to. You're going to have to investigate leaks that implicate the press, who told what to whom. There's no foreseeable limit to how far they're going to have to go."

And that's before we get to potential prosecutions, separate investigations by various congressional committees, lawsuits in civil courts, bar association probes, and possible legal tribunals around the world.

And then -- well, why stop at the memos? "If it's prosecutable because we waterboarded somebody or deprived him of sleep, what about sending a drone to blow him up without a trial or a hearing?" Olson asked. "What if the person we blew up was carrying a three-year old child? We know things like that have happened. We know innocent people have been killed. We know this administration has done it. Are they going to be prosecuted for that?"

And finally, when everyone is finished investigating, what's to stop the next president from holding Obama administration officials "accountable" for some "controversial" action?

It might sound extreme, but the investigation machine has revved out of control before. And it will happen this time -- unless the president puts a stop to it. Olson told me he hopes there will be no replay of past probes, and then added: "But I'm too cynical to think it can be avoided."...

Contrived, manipulated, phoney grounds for going to war in Afghanistan and in Iraq, ala an "Operation Northwoods" / Reichstag Fire, modeled, domestic psychological warfare campaign....no problemo.....investigating crimes against humanity conducted by the Washington DC establishment....

and "fixer Ted", whines and howls....go figure....

Good ole "Ted", according to determinations in the 2004 released, 9/11 Commission report, was the sole and almost immediate source of the hijackers armed with "cardboard cutters", aka "box cutters", version of events.....

The 9/11 Commission buried this investigative report of "hijackers armed with guns and knives" on the same Flight 77 that Ted Olson has so famously described:

It can be read on .pdf page 36 (last page), here:

http://www.911myths.com/images/f/f7/Team7_...st_Flight77.pdf

Edited May 1, 2009 by Tom Scully

[Len Colby]

Len,

Ted Olson is a rabidly right "monster" who practices a "two tier" standard for "justice"....one for the powerful, and a much harsher one for everyone else.

I agree he's an @$$hole but I have seen nothing that would lead me to suspect he was involved in the murder of his own wife. That is what you are suggesting isn't it? Or do you think she's still alive after being arrested on a non-existent boarder carrying forged bank notes of an extinct currency?

In the first few .pdf pages (begins on page 4) of this newly released, 74 page "clump" of 9/11 Commission gathered records, there is an easily understood explanation of how 9/11 airfone calls were charged and credit card numbers for the transactions logged, as well an investigative report of the details of the "collect call" from Barbara Olson, received with "CHARGES ACCEPTED" by the named DOJ "fill in" employee who answered phones in Ted Olson's office on the morning of 9/11.

Unfortunately I can't get that PDF to open please provide the relevant details and what you think they prove. Was one of the calls collect? I haven't looked at the matter that closely, why do think this is so damming?

Several times, Barbara Olson is described as sounding "panicked", by the two DOJ employees who claimed to hear her voice on the telephone, but husband Ted stated that his wife sounded "calm".....

Long after an event different people who spoke to her at different times had different recollections of her state of mind based on her voice, Holy Moly my-oh-my call the Eff Bee Eye, no wait they're in on it call Interpol. If it were a sham wouldn't we expect them to have gotten their stories straight? Did the possibilities than Olson perceived her state of mind differently or that she calmed down or masked her anxiety by the time she spoke to him really escape you?

....The offices of the DOJ telephone services provider's billing record would be a reasonable and forthright evidence exhibit in the 2006 prosecution of Moussaoui....instead a .swf animated flash presentation, omitting mention of the collect call to

Olson's DOJ office, with the charges accepted per DOJ employee, Lori Lynn Keaton's statement to the FBI...(Page 9)

This was not under dispute and not an integral part of the case except for a small number of truthers and an even smaller number of debunkers no one cares about this. other than Keaton's statement what evidence is there was a collect call? The main reason for these kinds of exhibits was to show the consequences of Moussaoui not warning American authorities about the attacks but I suspect it was mainly to rile up the jury against him.

It obviously would have been a simple matter for the DOJ to provide the FBI or 9/11 investigative staff with the billing record of the charges for accepting Barbara Olson's call......since it is policy for the government to be unaccountable in it's pronouncements, and in it's acts of aggression, according to Ted Olson, no such information was offered, or even solicited by investigators....

Once again this was not under dispute so there was no reason to track down the evidence the DoJ's FY 20002 budget was over $20 billion so finding the record of a single phone call might not be so simple.

Compare this info, Len, to your "Moussaoui was convicted by the jury", reply to my prior criticism of the .swf file of "unconnected, unidentified" telephone calls assumed to be from Barbara Olson to the DOJ.

You fail to take into account that only a small number of truthers, who are unlikely to change their minds no matter what evidence is produced, obsess about this. The DoJ's priority was to convict Moussaoui not allay the concerns of CT's

http://911myths.com/images/2/2a/Team7_Box1...llNotes302s.pdf

Page 8 of 74

...Earlier today approximately 9:00am, Ted Olson of his

assistant, Helen Voss, called the DOJ Command Center and requested a

security offiver come to Ted Olson's Office. Ferber did not receive

the call, but was asked to go to Ted Olson's office. The information he

got was that Ted Olson's wife, Barbara Olson, was on a plane the was

hijackked. He was told that the hikackers had knives and that the passengers

had been herded to the back of the plane.

He arrived at Ted Olson's office shortly after. Ted Olson

had already received two (2) calls from Barbara Olsen.

Ferber sat and watched the television coverage of the World Trade

Center (WTC) terrorist attack with Ted Olson for approximately ten (10)

minutes. Ferber left the office before the coverage of the Pentagon plane crash....

I have no idea what you think this proves

[Guest Tom Scully]

Len,

Another source of the "collect call" accepted in Ted Olson's office by DOJ employee Keyton, here:

This statement was taken by an FBI agent over the phone to the residence of Ms. Keyton...only

hours after the incident:

http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-09-14-F...lynn-keyton.pdf

...Keyton was working in Ted Olson's office this morning....At approx. 9:00am, she received a series

of approx. six (6) to eight (8) collect telephone calls. Each of the calls was an automated collect

call. There was a recording advising of the collect call and requesting she hold for an operator.

A short time later another recording stated that all operators were busy, please hang up and

try your call later.

Keyton then received a collect call from a live operator. The operator advised that there was an'

emergency collect call from Barbara Olsen for Ted Olsen. Keyton advised that she would accept the call. Barbara Olsen was put through and sounded hysterical....

Ms. Keyton should have testified to the 9/11 Commission, and the billing record of the accept collect call...on the DOJ's telephone billing record, should have been provided to the 9/11 Commission and entered in evidence in the Moussaoui trial....if a collect call as described, actually took place. The DOJ had nearly 3 years to find and provide the billing record, more than four years in the instance of the Moussaoui trial....

The other document I described details how airfone calls are paid for by credit card.....

Maybe another reader here can post a screen shot....

Edited May 1, 2009 by Tom Scully

[Jack White]

Len,

Another source of the "collect call" accepted in Ted Olson's office by DOJ employee Keyton, here:

This statement was taken by an FBI agent over the phone to the residence of Ms. Keyton...only

hours after the incident:

http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-09-14-F...lynn-keyton.pdf

...Keyton was working in Ted Olson's office this morning....At approx. 9:00am, she received a series

of approx. six (6) to eight (8) collect telephone calls. Each of the calls was an automated collect

call. There was a recording advising of the collect call and requesting she hold for an operator.

A short time later another recording stated that all operators were busy, please hang up and

try your call later.

Keyton then received a collect call from a live operator. The operator advised that there was an'

emergency collect call from Barbara Olsen for Ted Olsen. Keyton advised that she would accept the call. Barbara Olsen was put through and sounded hysterical....

Ms. Keyton should have testified to the 9/11 Commission, and the billing record of the accept collect call...on the DOJ's telephone billing record, should have been provided to the 9/11 Commission and entered in evidence in the Moussaoui trial....if a collect call as described, actually took place. The DOJ had nearly 3 years to find and provide the billing record, more than four years in the instance of the Moussaoui trial....

The other document I described details how airfone calls are paid for by credit card.....

Maybe another reader here can post a screen shot....

See original posting.

1. American Airlines says THERE WERE NO SEATBACK PHONES ON FLIGHT 77.

2. Cellphone calls from Flight 77 were impossible.

3. Collect calls from Flight 77 were impossible.

4. There must be ANOTHER EXPLANATION FOR MS. KEYTON'S REPORT, if it actually exists.

5. Any such report which does not surface immediately in initial investigations is suspect.

Jack

[Len Colby]

See original posting.

1. American Airlines says THERE WERE NO SEATBACK PHONES ON FLIGHT 77.

BS - AA told some truthers in 2005 or 2006 that their 767's didn't have such phones, but they wer such poor researchers they forgot to ask about the situation in 2001 when such planes indeed were so equiped Griffin admitted error but then back tracked

2. Cellphone calls from Flight 77 were impossible.

BS - unconfirmed tests were carried out several years after 9/11 in London, Ontario far from the the flight paths of any of the hijacked jets. Even so a small number of the attampted calls went through

3. Collect calls from Flight 77 were impossible.

AFAIK no evidence has been produced to support this claim

Edited May 2, 2009 by Len Colby