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Steve there was a problem with your link (I think it was cut) the right url is http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=38207 . It quotes this article http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html .

The Fleegle and Delasko quotes aren’t evidence of a pre-impact explosion, they in fact support the “official version”. Fleegle said “All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom,” According to the author of the 2nd article (actually the original article) “Delasko, who ran outside moments later, said she thought someone had blown up a boat on the lake. “It just looked like confetti raining down all over the air above the lake,” she said.” So the sequence was 1) noise of the engines 2) noise of explosion 3) “fireball mushroom” 4) “confetti” like debris falling on the lake.

Although Steve Ulman’s calculation sound about right to me I believe Fleegle was mistaken about having “heard engines screaming close overhead” if he meant ‘directly’ over head because they were next to Indian Lake a location beyond the southeasterly flying plane's flight path (see map) but of course “close overhead” doesn’t necessarily mean ‘directly overhead’

PH_2002-09-11_debris-a.jpg

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2002-...11_debris-a.jpg

So the debris came down AFTER the crash and in locations BEYOND the crash site (considering the plane’s direction of travel) and that includes the debris found 8 miles away. From the same article:

A southeasterly wind and a 3-year-old’s keen eye brought the crash of United Airlines Flight 93 home to a family in tiny New Baltimore borough, more than eight miles from the Somerset County crash site.

Three-year-old Hunter Stoe was helping his father, Andy, with the trash Wednesday night when he spied a slip of paper on the grass near the trash can.

Edited by Len Colby
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Guest Stephen Turner

Len, interesting

From the article, "heard the engines screaming CLOSE overhead, ranout-explosion-fireball."

So within a couple of seconds of Flight 93 passing over them, large amounts of debis begin to fall into the lake,and, in a very compact area, not widely spread out. According to the article this debris consisted of, amoung other things, Documents, pieces of seats, melted plastic and small human parts.For this to happen this debris must have been traveling at close to 500 MPH, and further, why rather than spreading itself over the countryside did it restrict itself to a relatively small area of the lake.

Steve.

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Steve - The reference to the debris “found in a very compact area, within 100 yards, 200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” was to “a second area about six to eight miles away from the crater here where plane went down” and thus was probably referring to the area where the 3 year-old found the cancelled check on his lawn “near the trash can” mentioned in my last post. The reference was from a CNN “breaking news report”*. As breaking news is apt to be the story is a bit confused since it says the area was near “a lake” and the furthest point of the 2 lakes from the impact crater is about 4 miles away (and is for a different lake). The Pittsburg Tribune map (above) identified two points where debris was found, the one 8 miles away and a second in Shanksville about 2 miles away. Reports of debris in Indian Lake are wide spread so it seems to have fallen in at least three points up to 8 miles from the crash site, why one of those would have been in a compact area “within…200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” if accurate is probably beyond the ability of any member of this board to understand, an NTSB investigator as quoted by an FBI agent in the article said such distant dispersal of debris “ is not only plausible, but probable,” Other experts agree.

* http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/bn.01.html (Yes, it’s the right link you need to scroll to the middle of the page)

“David F. King, a Principal Inspector at England's Air Accidents Investigation Branch in Farnborough, Hampshire, and an air-crash expert for the past 30 years” said (speaking generally about crashes) “If the aircraft has come down vertically with relatively low energy, the wreckage will be contained in a relatively small area, dependent on the size of the aircraft, of course. If the aircraft is flying straight and level at high speed when it first touches the ground, then the wreckage will distribute itself typically in a fan shape over quite a large area. If the aircraft starts to break up in the air, particularly at significant height, then it will start to distribute pieces that will travel with the wind and be spread over sometimes many hundreds of square miles.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vanished/wreckage.html ( I haven’t had time to look at it but the page has many links to additional information about crash sites and wreckage)

The flight 93 debris field by comparison seems quite small. It crashed in a manner intermediate between the 1st two scenarios he mentioned because it was a relatively large plane and crashed at very high speed but at a very steep angle. Note also that he mentioned wind dispersal of debris.

As to human remains being found in the lake, the report I read along those line said “discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact”* note that it doesn’t say directly that the suspected human remains were found miles away. I have seen any CONFIRMED reports of human remains found distant from the crash site. The local coroner contradicted such stories.

* http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

According to Popular Mechanics: “Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake.”

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=8

There was also the engine part but that was found 1000 – 2000 feet down hill, down wind and in the direction of travel away from the rest of the plane.

So the debris field like the witness testimony backs the official version unless someone can find evidence of debris found along the doomed plane’s flight path or witnesses describing a damaged plane or seeing a missile strike of having fighter aircraft in the area.

Len

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Guest Stephen Turner
Steve - The reference to the debris “found in a very compact area, within 100 yards, 200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” was to “a second area about six to eight miles away from the crater here where plane went down” and thus was probably referring to the area where the 3 year-old found the cancelled check on his lawn “near the trash can” mentioned in my last post. The reference was from a CNN “breaking news report”*. As breaking news is apt to be the story is a bit confused since it says the area was near “a lake” and the furthest point of the 2 lakes from the impact crater is about 4 miles away (and is for a different lake). The Pittsburg Tribune map (above) identified two points where debris was found, the one 8 miles away and a second in Shanksville about 2 miles away. Reports of debris in Indian Lake are wide spread so it seems to have fallen in at least three points up to 8 miles from the crash site, why one of those would have been in a compact area “within…200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” if accurate is probably beyond the ability of any member of this board to understand, an NTSB investigator as quoted by an FBI agent in the article said such distant dispersal of debris “ is not only plausible, but probable,” Other experts agree.

* http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/bn.01.html (Yes, it’s the right link you need to scroll to the middle of the page)

“David F. King, a Principal Inspector at England's Air Accidents Investigation Branch in Farnborough, Hampshire, and an air-crash expert for the past 30 years” said (speaking generally about crashes) “If the aircraft has come down vertically with relatively low energy, the wreckage will be contained in a relatively small area, dependent on the size of the aircraft, of course. If the aircraft is flying straight and level at high speed when it first touches the ground, then the wreckage will distribute itself typically in a fan shape over quite a large area. If the aircraft starts to break up in the air, particularly at significant height, then it will start to distribute pieces that will travel with the wind and be spread over sometimes many hundreds of square miles.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vanished/wreckage.html ( I haven’t had time to look at it but the page has many links to additional information about crash sites and wreckage)

The flight 93 debris field by comparison seems quite small. It crashed in a manner intermediate between the 1st two scenarios he mentioned because it was a relatively large plane and crashed at very high speed but at a very steep angle. Note also that he mentioned wind dispersal of debris.

As to human remains being found in the lake, the report I read along those line said “discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact”* note that it doesn’t say directly that the suspected human remains were found miles away. I have seen any CONFIRMED reports of human remains found distant from the crash site. The local coroner contradicted such stories.

* http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

According to Popular Mechanics: “Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake.”

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=8

There was also the engine part but that was found 1000 – 2000 feet down hill, down wind and in the direction of travel away from the rest of the plane.

So the debris field like the witness testimony backs the official version unless someone can find evidence of debris found along the doomed plane’s flight path or witnesses describing a damaged plane or seeing a missile strike of having fighter aircraft in the area.

Len

A compelling post Len, thank you.

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Guest Stephen Turner
Steve - The reference to the debris “found in a very compact area, within 100 yards, 200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” was to “a second area about six to eight miles away from the crater here where plane went down” and thus was probably referring to the area where the 3 year-old found the cancelled check on his lawn “near the trash can” mentioned in my last post. The reference was from a CNN “breaking news report”*. As breaking news is apt to be the story is a bit confused since it says the area was near “a lake” and the furthest point of the 2 lakes from the impact crater is about 4 miles away (and is for a different lake). The Pittsburg Tribune map (above) identified two points where debris was found, the one 8 miles away and a second in Shanksville about 2 miles away. Reports of debris in Indian Lake are wide spread so it seems to have fallen in at least three points up to 8 miles from the crash site, why one of those would have been in a compact area “within…200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that” if accurate is probably beyond the ability of any member of this board to understand, an NTSB investigator as quoted by an FBI agent in the article said such distant dispersal of debris “ is not only plausible, but probable,” Other experts agree.

* http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/bn.01.html (Yes, it’s the right link you need to scroll to the middle of the page)

“David F. King, a Principal Inspector at England's Air Accidents Investigation Branch in Farnborough, Hampshire, and an air-crash expert for the past 30 years” said (speaking generally about crashes) “If the aircraft has come down vertically with relatively low energy, the wreckage will be contained in a relatively small area, dependent on the size of the aircraft, of course. If the aircraft is flying straight and level at high speed when it first touches the ground, then the wreckage will distribute itself typically in a fan shape over quite a large area. If the aircraft starts to break up in the air, particularly at significant height, then it will start to distribute pieces that will travel with the wind and be spread over sometimes many hundreds of square miles.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vanished/wreckage.html ( I haven’t had time to look at it but the page has many links to additional information about crash sites and wreckage)

The flight 93 debris field by comparison seems quite small. It crashed in a manner intermediate between the 1st two scenarios he mentioned because it was a relatively large plane and crashed at very high speed but at a very steep angle. Note also that he mentioned wind dispersal of debris.

As to human remains being found in the lake, the report I read along those line said “discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact”* note that it doesn’t say directly that the suspected human remains were found miles away. I have seen any CONFIRMED reports of human remains found distant from the crash site. The local coroner contradicted such stories.

* http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

According to Popular Mechanics: “Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake.”

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=8

There was also the engine part but that was found 1000 – 2000 feet down hill, down wind and in the direction of travel away from the rest of the plane.

So the debris field like the witness testimony backs the official version unless someone can find evidence of debris found along the doomed plane’s flight path or witnesses describing a damaged plane or seeing a missile strike of having fighter aircraft in the area.

Len

Len,a compelling post, but certain problems remain, several eyewitnesses reported seeing what appeared to be a low flying military aircraft in and around the crash site, at the time of the crash. from fleegle and co's description of the time elapsed between the plane flying over them, and the debris falling onto the lake, a matter of seconds, it is hard to see how this debris could have travelled from the site, to the lake in such a small period of time, explosion or no explosion. when yuo couple this with Bush, and Rice's assertion that the responce was so slow because no one could have forseen this particular set of circumstances, and this despite over twenty warnings from various foreign intel agencies about the very real posssibility of exactly this happening, well, if a friend warned me twenty times that if I left my windows open, a known burgler was plannig to break in and rob me,if I continued to leave said windows open, and the robbery took place, whilst I could condemn him for his lawless behaviour, I could not, I submit claim to be taken by surprise.

All the best, Steve.

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“several eyewitnesses reported seeing what appeared to be a low flying military aircraft in and around the crash site, at the time of the crash.”

Several witnesses saw the unmarked white jet, most gave vary vague descriptions, a couple noted that it had rear mounted engines and fins on the tail two described it as resembling a “Lear jet” and another as “military” another said "It reminded me of a fighter jet". The Lear Jet comments were made a few days after the crash but both of the latter two comments were made nearly a year later. According to the “official story” it was an unmarked white Dassault-Falcon 20, a small executive jet which resembles a Lear Jet with rear mounted engines and fins on its tail (see photos), that air traffic controllers asked to confirm the crash site. I haven’t seen any compelling information that casts that explanation into doubt. The description given ("It had two rear engines, a big fin on the back like a spoiler on the back of a car and with two upright fins at the side” doesn’t match that of any fighters except perhaps the A10 “Warthog” which as spelled out in an earlier post is an unlikely choice because it is designed for ground support not air to air combat and had top speed below that of 757 let alone most other fighters in the US arsenal and limited range. The description is close to that of the Falcon 20. It makes sense that a year later 2 witness thought it looked like a fighter or military plane because the Falcon 20 is used by the air forces of 7 countries and the US Coast Guard*.

* http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...the-white-plane

A unmarked white Falcon 20

dassault-falcon-20.jpg

French AF Falcon 20

fra-falcon-20.jpg

Lear Jet

learjet.jpg

I have seen 2 general theories regarding the shoot down one was that it was shot down by a fighter sent to intercept it but this was covered up to avoid embarrassment and to provide an inspirational fable. The other is that is was shot down by the plotters for reasons unknown to abort the mission. The behavior and description of the “small white jet” doesn’t really fit either theory.

In the first scenario the jet would have been the first that could intercept the 757 this could explain it being a Warthog but since it would have been a standard USAF plane why would it have been unmarked? Also since the plane has a top speed of 420 mph and a maximum range of 800 miles* (400 each way) backers of this theory would have to find a base with such plane close enough to Shanksville. Another problem with this theory is the lack of any reports of the launch of an A-10, it’s not like a plane could take off from an air force base with no one noticing. Under the second scenario the plane would have flown out of some super secret base controlled by the plotters, the use of an A10 and especially its conspicuous behavior make no sense. In this case the logical thing to have done would have been to send out some sort of secret high speed, high flying air-air fighter that would have shot flight 93 down inconspicuously at high altitude at a good distance then immediately turned around to return to its base. In either case theorists have to contend air traffic controllers who made no mention of a fighter in the area, where they all “in on it” or intimidated by the plotters?

* http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/a-10_warthog.pl

“…from fleegle and co's description of the time elapsed between the plane flying over them, and the debris falling onto the lake, a matter of seconds, it is hard to see how this debris could have travelled from the site, to the lake in such a small period of time, explosion or no explosion.”

To know whether the force of the crash and subsequent explosion can adequately explain the time it took the debris to reach the lake we need to know 4 things 1) the distance 2) the elapsed time 3) the force of impact and explosion and 4) the mass of the debris.

1) Distance - According to the Pittsburg Tribune Fleegle and the others were 2 1/2 miles away, according to Popular Mechanics* (see map below) and a witness cited by the conspiracy minded author of an article in the English tabloid the Mirror** it was 1 ½ miles away. The different distances can be reconciled if Fleegle’s marina was a mile further away from the crash site than the point on the lake closest to it. Since the material would have traveled in an arc lets assume it traveled about 2 miles.

0305911-map-lg.jpg

* http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=8

** http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/e...tdidhappen.html See the comments of Tom Spinelli

2) Elapsed Time - If you look at the original article there is no real indication of how much time lapsed between the crash and the debris falling on the lake we are told that it was “moments later” which is vague to say the least. People are not known to be good judges of time anyway. If the 1st wave of debris traveled at an average speed of 400 mph it would have taken 18 seconds to cover 2 miles.

3) Force of impact and explosion – I’m not qualified to do the math. The plane weighed about 200,000 lbs (90,000 kilos) and hit the ground at about 580 mph (935 kph) at 45 to 90 degrees and was carrying IIRC about 10,000 gallons (38,000 liters) of jet fuel. In other words it would have made quite a bang.

4) Mass – I have no idea but it sounds pretty light weight thus not a lot of force would have been required to propel it at high speed towards the lake.

I don’t think we have anywhere near enough info to make a determination. Since the lake was beyond the plane’s flight path even if the plane was struck by a missile it seems unlikely that it (the missile) rather than the impact was the source of the debris.

Backers of the shoot down theory have to explain 1) why we have no reports of debris along the plane’s flight path and 2) why none of the dispersed debris except for one engine part was all lightweight material (paper, seat covers etc.)

“…when you couple this with Bush, and Rice's assertion that the responce was so slow because no one could have forseen this particular set of circumstances, and this despite over twenty warnings from various foreign intel agencies about the very real posssibility of exactly this happening…”

I don’t see the relevance of this to whether or not the plane was shot down or not. The Bush administration was certainly negligent, I never disputed that this could have been intentional though I have yet to see conclusive evidence it was. Even if Bush knew or should have known there is no indication this information was passed on to the small number of fighter squadrons whose planes could have been scrambled fast enough or the controllers at NORAD.

Witness accounts of the ‘small white jet’:

“Decker and Chaney described the plane as a Lear-jet type, with engines mounted near the tail and painted white with no identifying markings” 9/14/01

“Susan Mcelwain of Stonycreek Township said a small white jet with rear engines and no discernible markings swooped low over her minivan near an intersection and disappeared over a hilltop, nearly clipping the tops of trees lining the ridge”. 9/14/01

Susan Mcelwain ""It was white with no markings, but it was definitely military, it just had that look. It had two rear engines, a big fin on the back like a spoiler on the back of a car and with two upright fins at the side. I haven't found one like it on the internet. It definitely wasn't one of those executive jets.” September 2002

Lee Purbaugh: There was another plane," Lee said. "I didn't get a good look but it was white and it circled the area about twice and then it flew off over the horizon." September 2002

Tom Spinelli: "I saw the white plane," "It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash." September 2002

“Robin Doppstadt was working inside her family food-and-supply store when she heard the crash. When she went outside, she said, she saw a small white jet” September 2002

Jim Brant: "It reminded me of a fighter jet" September 2002

John Feegle: "It didn't look like a commercial plane," Feegle said. "It had a real goofy tail on it, like a high tail. It circled around, and it was gone." "The aircraft appeared to have an unusually tall vertical stabilizer." September 2002

9/14/01 http://www.flight93crash.com/second-plane-...-crash-site.htm

September 2002

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/e...tdidhappen.html

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The NetJets company has acknowledged that one of its aircraft was tracking Flight 93. This could have been a Dassault Falcon 20 or another make of "small white jet" in the fleet. We don't know exactly what it was, who was flying it, and why it was tracking Flight 93 because the government thinks it's none of the people's business.

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Len,

I don't back the "shot down" theory. I don't know if Flight 93 was shot down or not. I don't know if Flight 93 was even in the area.

Well said Ron!

It might also be worth putting "Flight 93" in inverted commas.

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Len,

I don't back the "shot down" theory. I don't know if Flight 93 was shot down or not. I don't know if Flight 93 was even in the area.

Several witnesses saw the plane crash or shortly before it crashed both on the ground and in the air, the flight was tracked by ATC's do you think they all lied?

If it didn't crash there where did the debris come from? Where did the body parts that the local coroner matched to next of kin DNA come from?

If the plotters planted the debris how did the do this without being noticed?

How did they make the debris shoot out over the lake?

Why would they plant debris miles away?

Why would they have planted the engine fan far from the rest of the wreckage?

Where did the plane and passengers and crew go?

Even if you can come up with semi-feasable answers to the above questions why would they carry out such an elaborate hoax? With the Pentagon at least you say that the building would have been hard to hit with a 757, crashing a plane into a field obviously wouldn't present the same challenges.

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Even if you can come up with semi-feasable answers to the above questions why would they carry out such an elaborate hoax?

It's possible that whatever happened to Flight 93 was not preplanned as "an elaborate hoax." It was the one "hijacked" flight that morning that was significantly delayed in taking off. There came a point where it could not believably reach a target (as if any of them could believably reach targets as officially described). Was it supposed to hit WTC7? Some other target? It certainly could not be allowed to land safely at the end of the day.

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Len,

I don't back the "shot down" theory. I don't know if Flight 93 was shot down or not. I don't know if Flight 93 was even in the area.

Several witnesses saw the plane crash or shortly before it crashed both on the ground and in the air, the flight was tracked by ATC's do you think they all lied?

If it didn't crash there where did the debris come from? Where did the body parts that the local coroner matched to next of kin DNA come from?

If the plotters planted the debris how did the do this without being noticed?

How did they make the debris shoot out over the lake?

Why would they plant debris miles away?

Why would they have planted the engine fan far from the rest of the wreckage?

Where did the plane and passengers and crew go?

Even if you can come up with semi-feasable answers to the above questions why would they carry out such an elaborate hoax? With the Pentagon at least you say that the building would have been hard to hit with a 757, crashing a plane into a field obviously wouldn't present the same challenges.

Colby lies again:

"If it didn't crash there where did the debris come from? Where did the body parts that the local coroner matched to next of kin DNA come from? "

QUOTES FROM THE CORONER:

Coroner at the Scene:

"This is the most eerie thing," he says.

"I have not, to this day, seen a single

drop of blood. Not a drop."

The Crater:

"The smoking crater looked, he says,

"like someone took a scrap truck, dug a

10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash

into it."

The Dirt:

"The area in which the plane hit had

just been backfilled."

Debris field:

"Crowley confirmed that there were two

other aircraft within 25 miles of the

United flight that were heading east

when it crashed, scattering debris over

8 miles.

Exercise Nearby:

"The department, just 2 1/2 months

before the terrorist attacks, held a

training drill simulating a terrorist

attack.

"When the terrorists struck the World

Trade Center, Flight 93 was above

Westmoreland County and actually

wound up in Shanksville."

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Jack - Saying that someone lied is a serious charge not only do you have to show that the person gave incorrect information but that they did so intentionally. As I will show below I was correct when I said human remains of all aboard we found. Many were IDed via DNA others by fingerprints and dental records. I could you lied again but have no evidence he knew the quotes were misleading even if one reads the articles they came from it is obvious they were taken out of context.

You said I lied “again” Can you point to previous occasions when I’ve posted incorrect information? There’ve been a few but I don’t think you found them, I’ve always acknowledge my error. There is no evidence (in the previous cases) I knew the information was incorrect. This contrasts with instances where I’ve shown that Fetzer and you made statements that you knew to be false.

No Bodies or wreckage were found near the crash site you have us believe?

No the coroner didn’t see any blood that’s not to say he and others didn’t find body parts immediately after the crash and later.

Your 1st quote came from this article:

The day that changed America

By Robb Frederick

(Pittsburg) TRIBUNE-REVIEW

Wednesday, September 11, 2002

<snip>

Dave Fox did go out to Skyline Drive, to the old strip mine, abandoned in 1996.

The former firefighter had heard the emergency tones. He, too, had been watching television, in a back office at the Deaner Funeral Home, where he was preparing an 11 a.m. service.

He saw the smoke. He drove out in the funeral van, expecting a skid crash, with fire and fuselage chunks, and the tail off to one side. And a survivor or two, God willing.

Some scrap yard workers had run up, hoping to help. Some coal truck drivers had stopped. And now the firefighters were coming, their radios crackling, calling out four more companies.

They couldn't find the plane.

< snip>

Fox stepped over a seat back. He saw a wiring harness, and a piston. None of the other pieces was bigger than a TV remote.

He saw three chunks of torn human tissue. He swallowed hard.

< snip>

The plane hit at about 575 mph. The cockpit and first-class cabin collapsed; the rest crumpled into it, the rivets giving, the fireball scorching everything.

Investigators crawled through the debris field, bagging bolts and bone fragments. They found chunks of seat cushion foam, and honeycombed sound insulators. Then a shoelace, some shirt buttons, and a wedding ring. Then part of a passport, and a necktie, still knotted.

< snip>

He couldn't believe the scene. He saw the burnt trees, and some debris smoking in the dirt. He saw half a window frame. He saw shreds of that white cloth they put over the headrests.

He saw things in the trees.

He takes off his glasses, cleans them with his T-shirt. "This is the most eerie thing," he says. "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_90823.html

Your 2nd and 3rd quotes came from the article below. Your fourth quote wasn’t from the coroner and actually backs my version of events. I fail to see the relevance of your fifth and final quote.

Hallowed Ground

Washington Post, May 12, 2002

< snip>

Before Miller can even unfold his lanky 6-foot-4 body from the vehicle, a deputy sheriff thrusts at him a plastic baggie containing a handful of jagged metallic nuggets, mangled and melted into irregular shapes, little bigger than children's marbles. They are the latest of the shreds to be recovered -- nearly six months later -- of what remains of United Airlines Flight 93. Miller holds up the bag and says that virtually the entire airplane, including its 44 human occupants, disintegrated in similar fashion.

<snip>

As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

< snip>

Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy: that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing. "There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part. The emotionally wrenching impact of what happened to the bodies caused Miller to resolve to seek out and talk personally to every one of the victims' families.

< snip>

Miller has kept in touch with many of the families. Five months after the crash, once the long, painstaking identification process was completed, he realized he had one larger duty remaining. Finally, some fragment of each of the dead had been positively identified, either by DNA or, in a few cases, fingerprints.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...A56110-2002May8

Many other articles mention wreckage and human remains:

Victims Remembered As Black Box Search Resumes

Sept 13, 2001

< snip>

The debris found in New Baltimore includes paper and nylon, Crowley said. He said that the items are lightweight and can easily be carried by wind. At the time of the crash, there was wind speed of 9 knots per hour heading to the southeast, where both Indian Lake and New Baltimore are located.

Jim Brant, owner of Indian Lake Marina, said he rushed outside Tuesday morning when he heard the roar of jet engines overhead, then saw a fireball rise into the air. The wind was strong that morning, Brant said, and within minutes debris from the crash was "falling like confetti."

< snip>

Makeshift Morgue Established

A morgue has been established at the Pennsylvania National Guard Armory in Friedens, Pa., about 10 miles southwest of the crash site. Experts from as far away as Texas will help identify the bodies, using X-ray and DNA and dental analysis.

The equipment was hauled to the armory in a tractor-trailer. The equipment includes high-tech mortuary equipment.

"We've been going through this area inch by inch. The remains are beginning to come," said Somerset County coroner Wallace Miller. "It will be quite some time until we can identify whoever a person might be."

A forensic archaeologist from Mercyhurst College has arrived to help with the identification process.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/959093/detail.html

Preparing to visit a barren crash site

Family members of the victims of Flight 93 will say goodbye at an abandoned mine

GRAEME SMITH

Friday, September 14, 2001

< snip>

Authorities say the largest piece of debris is about the size of a suitcase.

"The debris are very, very small," said Somerset state police Major Lyle Szupinka. What looks like a smashed engine is one of the major pieces identified so far, he said.

"If you've ever been to a commercial landfill, you have papers blowing around and bits and pieces of shredded metal," Maj. Szupinka said. "That's probably about the best way to describe that scene."

< snip>

Officials from the coroner's office have been taking body parts to a makeshift morgue nearby. Forensic experts from across the United States will examine the partial remains using DNA sampling, X-ray analysis, and, if possible, dental records.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/att...4_article6.html

Investigators seek black box in Pa.

Knight Ridder Newspapers

Thursday, September 13, 2001

They placed yellow and red flags next to each scrap of wreckage or human remains they found. Among the items was what seemed to be part of an engine, said Lt. Col. Robert Hickes of the state police.

Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said teams of forensic anthropologists and archeologists from other states were on their way to help identify victims. In many cases, microscopic analysis of DNA samples will be required, he said.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/sep/13/i...ors_seek_black/

Coroner identifies seven more victims of Flight 93 crash

Monday, September 24, 2001

By Brian Lyman, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

Seven victims of the Sept. 11 United Airlines Flight 93 crash in Somerset County were positively identified over the weekend, bringing the number of identified bodies to 11.

But Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said that additional identifications could take months. There were 44 passengers and crew members on the flight.

"We're in the process of notifying families," said Miller near the crash scene yesterday. "We're continuing the identification process as we speak."

The coroner's office was able to identify victims with help from FBI fingerprint experts, but Miller said they did not release identifications until investigators were all "comfortable" with the identity of each victim.

Four bodies had been identified as of Friday.

Miller would not name the victims, or say whether they were crew or passengers, saying his "No. 1 priority" was protecting the privacy of families.

"The identifications up to now were not [based on] DNA," said Miller. "The method now will be [to use] DNA [testing]."

That testing might slow the process down because DNA samples from victims must be tested against family samples, and the coroner's office has not yet contacted all of the families of the victims. Miller said he was "working day and night" to get in touch with them.

In addition, the terrorist attacks have swamped DNA testing centers in the nation.

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/2001...scenenat5p5.asp

See also the quote from the coroner and references to flight 93 wreckage in previous posts.

Photos of wreckage can be found here

http://www.911myths.com/html/flight_93_6.html

and here

http://pittsburgh.about.com/library/pictur...flight_93-5.htm

and here (scroll to middle of page)

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/united93.php

911 Review a leading “inside job” site debunks the ‘no plane crashed in Shanksville’ myth.

http://911review.com/errors/phantom/flight93.html

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