John Martino/Wm. Pawley/Plumlee; ref CIA 124 Files

[William Plumlee]

I have recently been informed that two files held by the CIA and the United States Senate have been released. (or in process of being released: (#104- 10406 & 124-90033-10059) About a year ago and again last December, I posted a reference to John Martino and Wm Pawley and other details about a 'classified CIA operation. Parts of this information can be found in the following link.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2401

I was told by Jay Harrison, in August of 2004, that Marry Ferrel, before she died, had a few of these file numbers which she had obtained a few years ago from an "inside source". However, I was told that the actual CIA references and files were classified at that time and the details were still classified as late as last October, 2005.

The named operation of the Pawley/Martino "Flying Tiger" affair (TILT) was first given to the Miami CIA Station (not JM/WAVE) in 1963 as a cutout code name.

In August of 1991 that information was confirmed in close door session by the CIA to members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The name was a "cut-out" name and inter office CIA memos and dispatches referred to the whole operation as "REDCROSS" the 'cut-out name was used as a "LOCK" (Reference Porter Gross DCIA September 2005. Reference Senator John Kerry. Reference Dick Mc Call Senate Staff, 1991; Reference John Winer, Senate Staff. Congressman Rangley' investigative personal (sp pho? 1987)

Reference a "LOCK" a fictious name; a means to identify a leak from an inside source or a suspected double agent.

The name is put out in the main stream by an AGENT to an Operative and when the name comes back to the AGENT or Operative from an "outside" source as factual, then the informant who received the name or the one who used the planted code name and passed it on is revealed and the leak as to classified information is found .

Reference: (Operational Proceedures and Methods; CIA training Handbook for Agents, Operatives and military OMC personal. 1962)

Document References; "....Plumlee an associate of John Martino...aka William H Pearson.." Reference; FBI 302's and 104's; CIA 124's and 202's (portions remain classified as of this date)

Tosh

-

[Gerry Hemming]

I have recently been informed that two files held by the CIA and the United States Senate have been released. (or in process of being released: (#104- 10406 & 124-90033-10059) About a year ago and again last December, I posted a reference to John Martino and Wm Pawley and other details about a 'classified CIA operation. Parts of this information can be found in the following link.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2401

I was told by Jay Harrison, in August of 2004, that Marry Ferrel, before she died, had a few of these file numbers which she had obtained a few years ago from an "inside source". However, I was told that the actual CIA references and files were classified at that time and the details were still classified as late as last October, 2005.

The named operation of the Pawley/Martino "Flying Tiger" affair (TILT) was first given to the Miami CIA Station (not JM/WAVE) in 1963 as a cutout code name.

In August of 1991 that information was confirmed in close door session by the CIA to members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The name was a "cut-out" name and inter office CIA memos and dispatches referred to the whole operation as "REDCROSS" the 'cut-out name was used as a "LOCK" (Reference Porter Gross DCIA September 2005. Reference Senator John Kerry. Reference Dick Mc Call Senate Staff, 1991; Reference John Winer, Senate Staff. Congressman Rangley' investigative personal (sp pho? 1987)

Reference a "LOCK" a fictious name; a means to identify a leak from an inside source or a suspected double agent.

The name is put out in the main stream by an AGENT to an Operative and when the name comes back to the AGENT or Operative from an "outside" source as factual, then the informant who received the name or the one who used the planted code name and passed it on is revealed and the leak as to classified information is found .

Reference: (Operational Proceedures and Methods; CIA training Handbook for Agents, Operatives and military OMC personal. 1962)

Document References; "....Plumlee an associate of John Martino...aka William H Pearson.." Reference; FBI 302's and 104's; CIA 124's and 202's (portions remain classified as of this date)

Tosh

-

------------------------------------

W. R. Plumlee first initiated a request under the "Freedom of Information / Privacy Act" [Title 5 U.S. Code, section 552, et seq.] during early 1981. The Government responded very quickly, as there were

NO extensive redactions necessary for security purposes; other than the routine blacking out of law enforcement personnel names, and which were noted as "law enforcement exemptions"!!

The following letter was sent to Plumlee by Bernard "Bud" Fensterwald, Jr.:

Law Offices

Fensterwald & Associates

2101 L Street, N. W.

WASHINGTON, D. C. 20037

_______

(202) 785-1636

April 21, 1981

Mr. William R. Plumlee

c/o General Delivery

Bailey, Colorado 80431

Dear Tosh:

You must be special, you got your records in record

time - - if you'll pardon the pun.

Let me know what you think.

Best regards,

Bernard Fensterwald, Jr.

BF/is

enclosure

cc: Gary Shaw

Gary, We would like the Plumlee material back when you

have finished with it. Thanks

BF

------------------------------------------

RECEIVED

April 27, 1981

J. GARY SHAW, ARCH.

-----------------------------------------

The contents of these files reveal that:

[FBI "302" - CI 105-new]

Address: 3509 Lexington Avenue

Dallas, Texas

Race: White

Sex: Male

Age: 21

Date of Birth: 11/25/37

Place of Birth: Panama City Florida

Height: 5' 11"

Weight: 165

Hair: Brown, curly, pompadour

fashion

Eyes: Hazel

Build: Medium

Frame: Slender

Complexion: Medium

Teeth: Good

Scars and Marks: Upper right arm - tattoo

of eagle with shield

(U.S. Army emblem);

Left forearm - tattoo of

redbird sitting on a limb

Military Service: U. S. Army 3/53 to 7/53,

Honorable Discharge

because of minority

Social Security No.: 452-52-4723

Army Serial No.: RA 18389060

Relatives: William W. Plumlee, father,

Dallas, Texas;

C. M. MORGAN, Stepfather;

MARGARET J. MORGAN, Mother,

3509 Lexington Avenue,

Dallas, Texas;

RONNIE MORGAN, half brother,

age 10;

MURRAY DEAN MORGAN, half

brother, age 12,

address same as mother.

Education: Attended North Dallas

High School through tenth

grade;

Completed high school in

Army and correspondence

courses.

Marital Status: Divorced Dorothy Joan

Casells, 2601 Harvard,

Dallas, Texas; two boys,

age 3 and 2, and one

daughter, age four months,

born of marriage. Divorced

3/58

Plumlee furnished the following employment record

and residences:

7/54 to 7/55, Riddle Airlines, Miami, Florida

7/55 to 7/56, Delta Airlines, Dallas, Texas

7/56 to 12/56 unrecalled

1256 to 12/57, Greenfield Flying Service, West Hollywood, Florida

12/56 to 3/58, Petroleum Helicopters, Morgan City, Louisiana

4/58 to 7/58, Radio Announcer, KEPS Radio, Eagle Pass, Texas

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;

"Form DD-214".

There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!

A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.

I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!

MORE TO COME !!

GPH

-----------------------------------------

Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.

[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]

_______________________________________

[Tim Carroll]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Would Hemming apologize for denigrating Tosh Plumlee's military service if the above claim was proven to be fallacious? What would be the appropriate meaning to be derived from a service record that contained the following statement: "ADDITIONAL DATES OF SERVICE CLASSIFIED NOT TO BE RELEASED FOR PUBLIC DISCLOSURE"?

T.C.

Edited January 7, 2006 by Tim Carroll

[Al Carrier]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;

"Form DD-214".

There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!

A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.

I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!

MORE TO COME !!

GPH

-----------------------------------------

Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.

[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]

_______________________________________

Mr. Patrick,

Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

Al

[Tim Carroll]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment.

Here is a copy of the "Form DD-214" (lower left corner) which Gerry Hemming claims Tosh wouldn't have, showing an honorable discharge:

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document:

T.C.

Edited January 7, 2006 by Tim Carroll

[Tim Carroll]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service"....

Here's a partial document showing the periods of service (far more than 4 months) that can be admitted in such a record as Tosh's:

I apologize that all of my other attachments on other threads have suddenly disappeared, but there is only so much space allocated for inserting such documents as these.

T.C.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

I apologize that all of my other attachments on other threads have suddenly disappeared, but there is only so much space allocated for inserting such documents as these.

T.C.

Thank you for these clarifying documents, Tim. Personally, I have failed to understand the point being made by Gerry Hemming in this matter. His own position is that many of his own adventures aren't included in his own service record - nor would one expect them to be - and that even his most comprehensive disclosures to the HSCA have been washed from the record by somebody who simply eliminated large chunks of his testimony. Having staked out the position that the written record about him is incomplete and cannot be trusted, by what twisted double standard would he expect that the record of any other covert operator would disclose all his activities?

Gerry has made a number of sweeping assertions on this Forum, without benefit of any substantive evidence, and has reguarly castigated anyone who asked for any such confirming evidence. Presumably, we are to take him at his word, for that should be good enough and suffice. Were these things only that simple.

In this instance, Gerry has made some sweeping statements about Tosh Plumlee, and seems to have been hoisted by his own petard. Perhaps Gerry has some additional documents that might call Plumlee and his disclosures into question, but of what value can these documents be when Hemming himself insists that such paperwork is, by necessity, incomplete at best, and rewritten for obfuscatory purposes at worst?

[Gerry Hemming]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;

"Form DD-214".

There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!

A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.

I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!

MORE TO COME !!

GPH

-----------------------------------------

Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.

[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]

_______________________________________

Mr. Patrick,

Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

Al

-----------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment.

Here is a copy of the "Form DD-214" (lower left corner) which Gerry Hemming claims Tosh wouldn't have, showing an honorable discharge:

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document:

T.C.

---------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

And don't give me the government phonied up the records of this snitch who cashed forged checks across the U.S. and on to Honolulu, Hawaii.

Maybe you can sucker him into making out a NOTARIZED affidavit reference those files, and his fraudulent receipt of VA benefits ??!! I have testified under oath, and I would like to see him just say [under oath] that he has testified ANYWHERE !!

[Gerry Hemming]

I apologize that all of my other attachments on other threads have suddenly disappeared, but there is only so much space allocated for inserting such documents as these.

T.C.

Thank you for these clarifying documents, Tim. Personally, I have failed to understand the point being made by Gerry Hemming in this matter. His own position is that many of his own adventures aren't included in his own service record - nor would one expect them to be - and that even his most comprehensive disclosures to the HSCA have been washed from the record by somebody who simply eliminated large chunks of his testimony. Having staked out the position that the written record about him is incomplete and cannot be trusted, by what twisted double standard would he expect that the record of any other covert operator would disclose all his activities?

Gerry has made a number of sweeping assertions on this Forum, without benefit of any substantive evidence, and has reguarly castigated anyone who asked for any such confirming evidence. Presumably, we are to take him at his word, for that should be good enough and suffice. Were these things only that simple.

In this instance, Gerry has made some sweeping statements about Tosh Plumlee, and seems to have been hoisted by his own petard. Perhaps Gerry has some additional documents that might call Plumlee and his disclosures into question, but of what value can these documents be when Hemming himself insists that such paperwork is, by necessity, incomplete at best, and rewritten for obfuscatory purposes at worst?

-------------------------------------

COVERT OPERATOR MY ASS !! He just got through stating that he met with Martino DURING 1991, and that must have been an interesting conversation. What did he do, use a stethescope on Martino's gravestone? This illliterate wannabe punk couldn't even remember that John died during 1975.

And if he claims it was a typo, he better be damned accurate as to just when John left us in Guatemala to return twice to the States. My files are on record, whether they have been "doctored", or filled with erroneous assertions -- they are ON THE WEB, and at NARA.

This wannabe phony is listed NOWHERE, and claims he was EVERYWHERE. What is your problem sister ??

Far too many of our good men died during these struggles, and their families are sick and tired of this asshole's phony impersonations.

As for me, you have stated that I am a prime suspect in the JFK murder, but you wimp on about my BSing. Is the BSing that Weberman's bullxxxx is all phony?? Well, tell him that -- and maybe he won't feel so bad in

a courtroom here in North Carolina very soon !! OR IS it that you are alleging that I have been involved in a cover-up for "40+ years" ??

How about you putting down -- "UNDER OATH"; all of the massive proof that you have of anything bookreader. Then I can tend to you.

______________________-

[Pat Speer]

Not that everyone needs to air their dirty laundry--my own family is not without a few brushes with the law--but

since Gerry and Tosh are having a credibility contest, I think it might be helpful for each to re-cap their own criminal history, including the circumstances that led them there. Or is that asking too much?

[Gerry Hemming]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Would Hemming apologize for denigrating Tosh Plumlee's military service if the above claim was proven to be fallacious? What would be the appropriate meaning to be derived from a service record that contained the following statement: "ADDITIONAL DATES OF SERVICE CLASSIFIED NOT TO BE RELEASED FOR PUBLIC DISCLOSURE"?

T.C.

-----------------------------

NO SUCH "STATEMENT IS EVER ATTACHED TO A MILITARY SERVICE RECORD. MY SERVICE RECORDS WERE CLASSIFIED UNTIL SOME WERE RELEASED TO THE U.S. DEPT. OF STATE [1967] WHEN I APPLIED FOR USAID/ PUBLIC SAFETY - VIETNAM.

After that they were re-classified, and not released in dribs and drabs from when I filed my first FOIA during August, 1975. I have since been instructed that a large portion of my files at CIA are only available to me if I travel to Langley, and under escort, peruse them in a closed room -- NO notes to be taken, and the escort must remain outside of the room !!

As a partial retaliation for filing the FOIA, I was indicted twice the following year [1976], and the first files to be handed to the press were those involving drug interdiction. It was an obvious attempt to have the drug cartels seek revenge against me.

You have some kind of SICKO AFFAIR going with "Tooshy" ?? This is a forum where it is expected that credible sources will provide credible insights, IF POSSIBLE, AND IF CONVENIENT !! What do you think the serious members on this Forum think when "Capricorn One - UFO wierdos", comic book hacks claiming MK/ULTRA or Alien kidnapping are onboard wasting all of our time. This CT community has a severely low reputation already !! EXACTLY "WHAT" IS IT THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE POSTED ON THIS FORUM ??

IS IT EGO, THAT YOU'VE BEEN SCAMMED, OR SOMETHING ELSE MAYBE ??!!

_______________________

[Tim Carroll]

Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !! If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO. I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

Today it's "READ THE DAMN DD-214" when yesterday the claim was that there would be no "Form DD-214" because there was "no 'Discharge' per se."

Regarding the "4 MONTHS OF SERVICE," my reading of the Department of Veteran Affairs document posted in this thread, dated August 7, 2003, is that Tosh Plumlee "served in the Army National Guard from October 22, 1952 to February 8, 1953; the Army Reserves from September 28, 1953 to March 1, 1954; and the Army from March 2, 1954 to July 2, 1954." And that is just the pre-classified service.

Using my humble bookreader English, when Gerry Hemming talks about getting Tosh Plumlee "back into the slam for the 6th time," the commonly understood implication is that Tosh has been in the "slam" at least five (5) times previously. Does Hemming specifically intend this meaning? Has he re-evaluated his understanding of military service discharge procedure? Can he add the months of service identified in the paragraph above and still assert "4?" And what about the following claim?:

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

While it was so predictable that Hemming's hysteria would boil over into the criminal justice area, what should researchers take from that? If we find that researchers have long known about both Hemming's and Plumlee's histories, should either of them be dismissed on the basis of having ever had any brush with the law? Should their relative infractions and/or sentences be compared to better understand whose story to believe about what transpired during the CIA's secret wars? Would it make a difference if the evidence showed that Hemming spent a vastly greater portion of his life incarcerated than Plumlee? The whole issue is another red herring.

T.C.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Tim Carroll

[Al Carrier]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;

"Form DD-214".

There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!

A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.

I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!

MORE TO COME !!

GPH

-----------------------------------------

Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.

[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]

_______________________________________

Mr. Patrick,

Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

Al

-----------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment.

Here is a copy of the "Form DD-214" (lower left corner) which Gerry Hemming claims Tosh wouldn't have, showing an honorable discharge:

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document:

T.C.

---------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

And don't give me the government phonied up the records of this snitch who cashed forged checks across the U.S. and on to Honolulu, Hawaii.

Maybe you can sucker him into making out a NOTARIZED affidavit reference those files, and his fraudulent receipt of VA benefits ??!! I have testified under oath, and I would like to see him just say [under oath] that he has testified ANYWHERE !!

Thanks Mr. Patrick!

You have proved my point on your own ignorance. Ihave asked you to ask your brother about me and you ignored it. I told you to check my own DD214 and IRS records and again you ignored it. If you would have checked, you would see that I came out on a medical and receive disability compensation from the government. I have handed you a near shadow line of Tosh and you could not see it. If you were so important you would have understood the parallels and recognized such simplistic doctoring of official documents. You are what I have labeled you from the start. A wanna-be operative who would not have been considered. There is a distinct difference in an operational asset and a second rate SOF. Guess where you fell in. And as far as being impressed with testifying before Congress, look at the company you keep. I need say no more. If you were so important, you would not have been disclosed so frequently. You are a legend in your own mind Mr. Patrick. I hope others on the forum clearly see that!

Enough said, you are not worth my time or the space you take up on the forum. So your statement "Are you blind or stupid?" Back at you! So FO!

Al

Edited January 8, 2006 by Al Carrier

[Gerry Hemming]

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;

"Form DD-214".

There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!

A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.

I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!

MORE TO COME !!

GPH

-----------------------------------------

Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.

[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]

_______________________________________

Mr. Patrick,

Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

Al

-----------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment.

Here is a copy of the "Form DD-214" (lower left corner) which Gerry Hemming claims Tosh wouldn't have, showing an honorable discharge:

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document:

T.C.

---------------------------

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!

If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.

I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

GPH

_____________________________

And don't give me the government phonied up the records of this snitch who cashed forged checks across the U.S. and on to Honolulu, Hawaii.

Maybe you can sucker him into making out a NOTARIZED affidavit reference those files, and his fraudulent receipt of VA benefits ??!! I have testified under oath, and I would like to see him just say [under oath] that he has testified ANYWHERE !!

Thanks Mr. Patrick!

You have proved my point on your own ignorance. Ihave asked you to ask your brother about me and you ignored it. I told you to check my own DD214 and IRS records and again you ignored it. If you would have checked, you would see that I came out on a medical and receive disability compensation from the government. I have handed you a near shadow line of Tosh and you could not see it. If you were so important you would have understood the parallels and recognized such simplistic doctoring of official documents. You are what I have labeled you from the start. A wanna-be operative who would not have been considered. There is a distinct difference in an operational asset and a second rate SOF. Guess where you fell in. And as far as being impressed with testifying before Congress, look at the company you keep. I need say no more. If you were so important, you would not have been disclosed so frequently. You are a legend in your own mind Mr. Patrick. I hope others on the forum clearly see that!

Enough said, you are not worth my time or the space you take up on the forum. So your statement "Are you blind or stupid?" Back at you! So FO!

Al

-----------------------------------

WELL IT MUST BE STUPID THEN ?? NOT surprising though since you also have "sucked-up" to "Dangerous Dan's" bullxxxx stories. The Fort Bragg/Fayetteville Green Beret "Team House" veterans are about to bust his 'Nads in federal court this week. This (Quartermaster M.O.S.) "Tearful Tommy" who served a very short stint in an as yet unidentified ODA (he claims ODA 424, but 4th SFGrp(Abn) was NEVER in the 'nam)

Not only has he a price to pay for the grief he continues to cause to a deceased Naval Officer's family, both he and his publisher will be under a 17 year judgment against ALL of their future incomes !! And they can keep on begging US all they want for legal fees, but their lies against the "Real Warriors" who stuck to their oaths, will soon be revealed to the whole world.

As for numb-nuts "Tooshy" having joined with his schoolmates in that common astime of "joining the National Guard and/or Reserves" during the early 1950s -- it still remains the law that it was "Unlawful Underage/Minority & Fraudulent Enlistments" !! None of which may be credited towards either "Active Duty" nor "Active Duty for Training".

That the DOD/VA, etc. have frequently screwed up and handed out DD-214s is well known. They are about to correct that mistake. "Underage/Minority" service, and Reserve/Nat'l Guard service DOES NOT COUNT under the law so as to satisfy VA benefits. That is only permitted IF you retire with a minimum of 20 years in the Guard/Reserve or were medically retired during "ACTDTYFRINST" (Active Duty for Instruction) !!

[THAT is about to be corrected by the Government shortly, and he might even want to thank you. The cat got "Tooshy's" tongue these days ??]

Better check your 'FOIA FILES" again Sonny. "Tooshy" repeatedly called the cops and feds from jail (trying to EARN a "get-out-of-jail-by-snitching-free-card") beginning during 1959. That case, in reality involved Dominick Bartone (and some spaghetti-suckers still alive and around) who had done exactly what the CIA told them to do. "Tooshy", even way back then, attempted to jump onboard, claim participation -- and offer to snitch out a crew he had never even heard about until he read it in the jailhouse news !!

Does your very own alleged "Covert Op" reputation rely upon this snitch being accepted as credible, or is it that you are just another gullible wannabe rent-a-pig ??!!

WHY are you responding instead of "Tooshy'; is he worried about having to put something down under oath ?? And how about giving us a clue as to when and where he testified before ANY governmental body/tribunal/forum.

As for his snitching out to Gary hart's clowns [1983], who later passed it on to "Band-Aid Purple Heart Squid" Kerry. Most of that "drugs Intel?" had already been in the press, and that is why they blew him off -- they had read the very same reports in the media long before him, dumbass !!

______________________________

[Tim Carroll]

I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!

ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!.... I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!

Today it's "READ THE DAMN DD-214" when yesterday the claim was that there would be no "Form DD-214" because there was "no 'Discharge' per se."

A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.

Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document

Even when in full attack mode, Hemming can't address an issue straightforwardly or credibly. He did say there would be no DD-214, and that was proven to be false. He did say that "Plumlee accrued no right to any benefits whatsoever," and that was proven to be false. He did say that Plumlee only had "4 months of service," and that was proven to be false. He did insinuate that Plumlee was in the "slam" at least five (5) times previously, and now he avoids confirming his own meaning when asked directly (assumedly because it's false).

As Robert Charles-Dunne expressed so well, "Gerry has made some sweeping statements about Tosh Plumlee, and seems to have been hoisted by his own petard." Hemming's assertions remind me of Joe McCarthy's ever-changing numbers of communists in the State Department. This is supposed to be a forum devoted to historical research, not P.T. Barnum-like self-promotion, which presumes that there's a sucker born every minute. Hemming has shown that he can't get the simplest public records correct (yes Virginia; there is a DD-214), yet would have us believe that he has been cleared for access to high-level, classified materials. I think not.

T.C.