Jack White's Aulis "Apollo Hoax" Investigation - A Rebuttal

[Evan Burton]

ROVER FENDER REPAIR ANOMOLY

Here Jack does not even try to claim an anomoly - despite the title. He simply says that a "big deal" was made over LRV repairs on Apollo 17, but "no fuss" was made over the same repair on Apollo 16.

This is pretty simple; NASA was concerned in each case. The LRV could not operate efficiently with a broken fender. The wheels sprayed lunar dust over the astronauts and over the LRV. The LRV battery section had to be dusted regularly because dust could cause loss of reflective properties and subsequent overheating. Loss of the LRV meant that many planned visits to lunar sites would not go ahead because there was a 'walkback' limit applied to wherever they went. They had to be able to walk there & back well within safety margins of their oxygen supplies. The loss of these sites would affect the geological knowledge gained from the exploration.

When a fender broke on Apollo 16 (John Young caught it with a geologist's hammer when walking past), it was a concern and a repair was made. This allowed the planned schedule to be maintained.

When the fender broke again on Apollo 17, the controllers & astronauts were miffed; basically the same accident had happened again! Yet again, a repair was made and the mission continued as planned.

Concern was felt in each case, because of the implications of not having the LRV.

[Evan Burton]

(entered in error)

Edited March 4, 2006 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

SAME BACKDROPS - DIFFERENT FOREGROUNDS

Firstly, my reply to the Editor's Comment:

See my previous post concerning Apollo panoramas. NASA could not have foreseen that hoax believers would make a cursary study of the backdrops and not appreciate that panoramas were taken from differing locations. The hoax believers has been proven wrong, well and truly.

******************

Now, I really do tire of having to say the same thing over & over again. The pans are from different positions. The horizon detail will remain the same because it is distant.

If I am little sparse in some detail, I apologise. I'm just going to use the basic details provided by the ALSJ. If I don't provide details of exactly which frames were used, it's because they haven't immediately provided them. I can provide them by reference to the Apollo Image Atlas, and will do so if required. If you wish to question what I say, or require clarification or more detailed examination, just ask and I will be happy to provide it to the thread.

*********************

Firstly, here is the Apollo 16 Traverse Map so you can see where the astronauts travelled and can identify some of the major features they saw.

The images Jack has provided are crops from various Apollo 16 panoramic images. They are cropped to show the same background details. I'll use numbering from 1 to 5, 1 being the top image, 5 the bottom.

1. This is from a16pan1242334, the first Station 2 pan taken by Charlie Duke at time 124:23:34. It is made up of images AS16-109-17811 to AS16-109-17827. Charlie took this pan near the rim of Spook Crater. The "hill" in the background is Stone Mountain, approximately 4 km distant.

2. This is from a16pan1221232, known as the ALSEP pan, taken by Charlie Duke at time 122:12:32. It's made up of frames AS16-113-18349 to AS16-113-18369. Charlie took this while John was using the "thumper":

[Twenty-one small charges - single-bridgewire, Apollo standard initiators - are mounted in the base plate of the thumper. John will fire these charges at 15-foot (4.57 m) intervals along the geophone line to generate seismic signals. The pattern of arrivals at the three geophones will give investigators information related to the depth and velocity structure of layers in the regolith. Figure 10-1 from the Preliminary Science Report shows the preliminary results of the experiment. Vp is compressive velocity, the sound speed of acoustic waves in soil. The Apollo standard initiators were used for such purposes as opening valves and severing connections between spacecraft stages.]

[Charlie bends his knees and pulls his head and shoulder back to raise his aim. He starts his ALSEP pan with a down-Sun picture, AS16-113- 18349, which shows the magnetometer. Prior to 122:13:16, he takes eight or nine more pictures, turning slightly to his right between frames.]

[Duke - "On 18349, you can see how, if you look down-Sun, it's very bright. And zero-phase it just washes out completely and you can't even see the details in the surface. But, just away from that, you can begin to see the rocks and the footprints and stuff like that that were on the surface. Good view of the sort of the slope of the terrain on the horizon. It looks likes it's sloping down from north to south. And that was a little more pronounced than we had expected."]

[Frame 18350 shows the magnetometer.]

[in 18351, John is visible beyond the foreground rise. He is about 10 meters west of the central Geophone and about 55 meters west of Charlie. The RTG is in the foreground.]

[The RTG is also visible in 18352, 18353, and 18354.]

[Frames 18355 and 18356, show the south face of the Central Station.]

[Frame 18357 shows Smoky Mountain in the background. This is about the point in the pan where Charlie stops so that John can fire his 9th shot.]

[Jones - "In training did you take pans and develop the film to see how you did?"]

[Duke - "We practiced all the photographic sequences that we had. Every time we put out the ALSEP in training, we would go through not only the experiments deployment but we'd go through the photo layout and sequence so we knew what to do and it was second nature."]

[Jones - "Did you have film in the camera."]

[Duke - "Yeah. Uh-huh. And then they would develop it and we would look at it to see how we screwed up and if we were in focus and make sure the horizon was right. And that gave us a good idea of just how much we had to lean back and how to point the camera. It was a single-reflex lens and you just sort of had to, you know, point right and try to get it. What you thought was right. And it turned out pretty good. We tried to get it so that we had just a little horizon. We didn't want to get too high and get, you know, this black sky. And that took some practice but, by the time we got going, we were okay."]

[in AS16-113- 18367, Stone Mountain is the hill on the right and Kenesaw is probably the hill beyond it to the south. Frame 18368 shows the two large craters that Charlie describes at the western foot of Kenesaw. Ravine Crater is east of North Ray Crater and is shown in Figure 6-4 ( 648k ) from the Preliminary Science Report. Dome Mountain may be the peak beyond and to the left of Smoky Mountain as seen in 18357.]

Their location is about 100m east of the LM.

Once more, Stone Mountain in the background.

3. This is known as John's Station 1 Pan, There is one version, a16pan1240222, but the version Jack has cropped from is an alternate assembled by Dave Byrne, a16alt1240222. It is a pan from the far side of Plum Crater. The frames are AS16-114-18415 to AS16-114-18432.

In Jack's crop, you can see the edge of Plum Crater on the left of the picture. The astronaut in the image is Charlie Duke.

We know it was taken from Station 1, and the ALSJ says:

Frame 18422 (scan by Kipp Teague) shows the Rover on the far side of Plum Crater.

In 18423 (scan by Kipp Teague) and 18424, we see Charlie watching John from the site where he took photos of the lineations he has been describing. He used the scoop for scale.

In 18427 (scan by Kipp Teague), 18428, and 18429, John catches Charlie as he moves south to examine some angular blocks.

In 18428, Charlie is kicking soil ahead of his left foot as he goes. South Ray Crater is in the background.

So once again, it is Stone Mountain in the background, over 4km away.

4. This pan is from the pan mentioned above, a16pan1240222.

The ALSJ tells us:

John takes a pan on the opposite side of Plum Crater from the Rover. A VR version is also available. Assemblies by Mike Constantine, who has used two of the frames that show Charlie, who was moving while John was taking the pan. The TV record shows this sequence quite clearly. Dave Byrne has assembled a different version using only one of the Charlie frames.

It is the same scene from different images taken from the same location. Compare Jack's pan 3 and pan 4. Here the details are identical, because they were taken from the same spot.

5. This is a16-1193346lw taken at 119:33:46, and known as the LM 4 O'clock pan. Charlie Duke took this pan from a position 20 meters southeast of the LM. Beyond the LM, we see John Young sitting on the Rover, preparing to make a test drive after deployment. The frames are AS16-113-18313 to AS16-113-18330. Assembly by Lennie Waugh.

Okay, so let's review this:

1. Taken from Station 2

2. Taken from about 100m east of LM

3. Taken from Station 1

4. Taken from Station 1

5. Taken from about 20m southeast of LM.

All are pan sequences taken during EVA-1 with Stone Mountain as the object of interest in Jack's images.

All have Stone Mountain at least 4 km in the distance.

(3) and (4) are similar because they are taken from the same location.

The others have different foreground features because they are taken from different locations!

Please, do a DETAILED examination of the images, refer to the ALSJ, note what frames are pointed in which direction, note WHERE they are taken from, and decide for yourself.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

FRUGAL USE OF SAME PROPS - AGAIN?

Once more, I'm not sure what point Jack is trying to make. He doesn't actually SAY anything, or make a particular claim.

Well, the LMs in each image are taken from a similar viewpoint. They are both J-series LMs (the J-series of missions were extended stay lunar landings, meant for scientific research).

The Editor's Comments mention the diagonal line - or supposed lack of it.

Have a look at the high resolution version of AS17-140-21370. You can see the strap. Like Jack, the editor is wrong.

The Apollo 15, 16, and 17 LMs were all roughly the same.

Have a look at Apollo Maniacs to see the differences between each missions LM, and a very good description of the LM in general.

[Evan Burton]

LEM VIEWS ARE 90 DEGREES DIFFERENT, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE PANORAMAS?

At least the first part of Jack's title is correct.

The panoramas were taken from roughly the same distance from the LM, the first west of the LM, the second from north-northeast of the LM.

The first is a16.1655702_lw.

The second is a16pan1431346.

The flag appears different because the first image is taken from west of the LM and the flag is NORTH of the LM (i.e. to the left in the image). In the second image, taken from the north-northeast of the LM, the flag is still NORTH of the LM but appears more to the right of the LM because it is a PANORAMA.

Stone Mountain looks about the same because it is over 4km in the distance and the images are a PANORAMA.

Also, the sun & shadows. In the top image, the LM is casting a shadow in front of it (i.e. west).

In the second image, the LM is casting a shadow to the right (we are north of the LM, so right is west). No change in shadow direction.

Set up an image like this for yourself. Go out to a flat area with hills / mountains at least 4 km away. Get a large object (say, a car), and place a flag (or something similar) in a predetermined direction from the car. To reproduce the image, place it north of the car with hills to the south.

Move to the west of the car, and take a pan sequence.

Move to the north-northeast of the car, and take a pan sequence.

Put the pan sequences together, and compare what you see on the images that YOU took with the images shown.

[Evan Burton]

MOUNTAIN BACKDROP STRETCH?

Firstly, the top image (A) is a crop from Gene Cernan's Station 7 pan (a17.1662658_dmh), assembled by David Harland. An alternative pan assembly is available. The pan is made up of frames AS17-146-22339 to AS17-146-22363. The object that concern us is called the South Massif, and is contained in frames 22351 to 22353.

Image B is a crop from Gene Cernan's Station 6 pan (a17.1653338_dmh), again assembled by David Harland. Again, an alternative pan

assembly is available. The pan is made up of frames AS17-140-21482 to AS17-140-21509. South Massif is again visible and the frames that concern us are 21491 to 21493. Please note that this pan was taken from right-to-left, so that 21491 is the right hand side of South Massif, and 21493 is the left hand side.

Station 6 & 7 are both located to the north-east of the landing site, on the edge of the NORTH Massif, and are seperated by about 500m. SOUTH Massif is about 8-10km away from each station, and they have a similar viewpoint of it, looking south-west.

Now, when I first saw Jack's images, there seemed to be no doubt that at least part of one image had been "stretched". I don't know if there were ways of doing this back when the images were first taken in the 70's.

What I knew though, were two things:

1. The images were PANORAMAS, assembled by contributors to the ALSJ; and

2. When contributors assemble pans they sometimes "stretch" portion to make a seamless pan that is visually pleasing.

Please note that it is the contributors who do this, not NASA. When you read the ALSJ they will often have comments from the people saying what they had to do to make a pan look so good.

Armed with this knowledge, I thought the best way to compare the images was frame-by-frame.

I am concentrating on the South Massif, because that is where the "stretching" seemed to occur.

22351 shows the left hand edge of South Massif, and is paired with 21493.

22352 shows the central section of South Massif, and is paired with 21492.

22353 shows the right hand edge of South Nassif, and is paired with 21491.

The images I have used come from the ALSJ and the Apollo Image Atlas.

Because they are of different sizes, I have had to scale one image in the comparisons to fit the other. Note the use of the word SCALE, not stretch. In scaling, all parts of the image are constrained proportionally. If I make it 15% wider, it also becomes 15% taller.

So let's look at the results:

Comparison of AS17-146-22351 and AS17-140-21493

Comparison of AS17-146-22352 and AS17-140-21492

Comparison of AS17-146-22352 and AS17-140-21491

Comparison of AS17-146-22353 and AS17-140-21491

As you can see, when we do a frame-by-frame comparision, the images match.

The pan that Jack has shown apparently WAS stretched, but it was to make a better looking image. I've sent an e-mail to try and contact David Harland; let's see what he can tell us about the pans.

As always - don't take my word for it. Do the comparison yourself and make up your own mind.

P.S. And once more, the Editor makes inaccurate statements and hints at coverup. Perhaps Jack could speak to the Aulis editor and inform us which pan frames were done out of sequence; the Editor simply SAYS that it happened in the Apollo 17 images without offering any evidence to that effect.

[Evan Burton]

APOLLO 17 PANORAMA MISMATCHES

This is a good example of why you have to do your research when being shown images.

The top image is a17.1682021_dmh, a pan assembled by David Harland. It is made up of frames AS17-142-21811 to AS17-142-21823, as Jack has said. What he has NOT told you is that it is NOT A FULL 360 DEGREE PAN. It is a section of a17pan1682021, which is made up of frames AS17-142-21798 to AS17-142-21824. It was taken from Station 1 (see map below) at time 168:20:21.

The other image is cropped from a17pan1223224, made up from frames AS17-136-20744 to AS17-136-20776, taken from Station 9 (see map below) at time 122:32:24. The section Jack has shown is about from frame 20751 to 20776, as Jack has labeled.

What you need to do is compare the FULL pans to each other, and get direction sorted out.

The directions I have used are roughly correct. The sun is in the east, shadows are cast to the west.

Now look at the comparison of the full pans with directions indicated.

Comparison of a17pan1682021 & a17pan1223224

The features don't exactly line up because the images were taken from different locations. Looking south-west at the South Massif, the viewpoints are about the same. Looking west, however, there is a slight difference. This is because Station 1 is a little over 2 km further south than Station 9. An object that is due west of Station 9 is actually west-northwest of Station 1.

In general, however, everything matches.

Here is a traverse map of Apollo 17. Station 9 is 2300m to the north-east of the LM landing site, near Shakespeare & Van Serg craters, and Station 1 is 1100m south-southeast of the LM landing site near Steno-Apollo crater.

APOLLO 17 TRAVERSE MAP

[Evan Burton]

ADHESIVE TAPE GIVE-AWAY

Firstly, Jack has accidentally given the wrong frame number.

The left-hand image is AS17-140-21370.

AS17-140-21370

Notice how there are sun flares in the image, and the direction of the sun.

The other image ID is correct.

AS17-134-20469

In this image, again notice the sun flare, and the direction of the sun.

The "fill" lighting is has been explained before - it's the light reflected off the astronaut's EMU suit. The EMU is white, and is designed to reflect light (to aid in cooling). This has been demonstrated in numerous Apollo images and the effect demonstrated by people in this forum.

[Evan Burton]

SAME LEM, SAME LIGHTING, BACKGROUND REARRANGED

No, it isn't. Once more Jack selectively crops a portion of an image to give you the impression that what he is saying is true.

AS17-140-21370 is shown in the previous post.

This is AS16-116-18579:

AS16-116-18579

Now what Jack fails to mention is that the Apollo 16 photograph were part of a pan sequence - and so was the Apollo 17 photograph.

Apollo 16

165:55:46 Duke: Let's see, that's about plus-Z. About (garbled) feet or so. (Garbled) down.

[Having completed his review, John turns his checklist page back the way it was, probably to review CDR-28 and CDR-29.] 165:55:59 England: And, fellows, we're going to do a (site) hand-off (from Honeysuckle to Madrid) in a few minutes. We may lose comm for a second.

165:56:08 Young: (Answering Tony) Okay. (To Charlie) Okay, Charlie. You got the ETB (un)loaded, right?

165:56:12 Duke: Yes, sir.

165:56:13 Young: The big rock bag is on the Hand Tool Carrier. And...(Pause)

165:56:30 Duke: (Taking AS16-116- 18574) Ah, the old U.S. flag. Looks colorful. (Pause)

[John leans over his seat to check the circuit breakers as per CDR-28.] 165:56:42 Young: "Bus A, B, C, and D, close." (Pause) You already got those, huh, Charlie?

[John stands and looks at his checklist.] 165:56:54 Duke: Yeah, I had to turn on the TV for them and it's on external, so...Okay, Tony, pan's complete.

RealVideo Clip (2 min 47 sec)

165:57:02 England: Okay. (Pause)

[Charlie's plus-Z pan consists of frames AS16-116- 18563 to 18591.]

Apollo 17

163:56:11 Parker: Okay. And, Jack, are you going out to take the pan now?

163:56:16 Schmitt: Well, as soon as I finish up here, I'll do that.

[Gene mounts a map on the holder to the right of the instrument panel. As per LMP-5, Jack put the map on the seat when he was unloading the ETB.] 163:56:20 Parker: Okay. And after you take the pan, we'd like you to retrieve the cosmic ray experiment. They're expecting a little solar storm, and before the rain gets on the cosmic ray experiment, they'd like to retrieve it. We'll leave it in the ETB during the traverse.

[if the solar flare is weak enough that the ETB offers adequate protection, the exposures experienced by the suited astronauts will be minimal.] 163:56:40 Schmitt: Okay, (I'll do it) after the pan. All right.

163:56:42 Parker: Roger. It will just be a nominal retrieval.

163:56:44 Schmitt: Okay, the gate's locked.

163:56:44 Parker: ...and we'll put it in the ETB. Copied the gate.

163:56:50 Schmitt: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Gene finishes mounting the map; Fendell pans clockwise to follow. Off-camera, Jack will take a 12 o'clock color pan with Gene's camera. These frames are AS17-140- 21359 to 21380.]

Now, let's have a look at the "object" Jack is pointing to:

Comparison of AS16-113-18310 and AS17-147-22477 (Cropped, enlarged to 200% of original sizes)

They hardly look the same to me. Different terrain.

Once again Jack is wrong.

[Evan Burton]

ANOTHER TRACKLESS ROVER

Well, Jack is right. In this image you can't SEE any LRV tracks immediately behind the wheels (actually, you can make out what are probably tracks of the right rear wheel in the high resolution pic - but there is insufficent detail to call it proof).

However:

If you look beyond (past) the LRV in the high resolution version of AS15-88-11901, you can see the tracks where it was driven up. They go from left to right, and start curving towards the camera at the right hand edge of the image.

Gee, if only we could see further right of that.

SURPRISE! The image was taken as part of a pan sequence. I can't find a hi-res version available right now, but if we look at 11903, you CAN see where the LRV did a 180 degree turn to finish in it's final parking position.

AS15-88-11903 (cropped)

See the tracks just to the right of the frame?

So why can't we see tracks? Well, you don't always see them. Sometimes it's the light, sometimes the astronauts walk over them. In this case it is probably that the LRV is quite light (it has been emptied of all the samples and been moved to it's final parking position). The ALSJ notes this:

[Frame 11895 is a down-Sun and shows the LM with the ALSEP in the background. Jim is north of the spacecraft and is facing south. In frame 11896, Jim is facing north and, in 11897, he has moved in toward the LM. Frame 11899 shows the front of the Rover and the open LCRU covers. The TV camera is pointing north. Frame 88-11900 shows the Rover console, Jim's seat, and the low-gain antenna. Note the damage the seat has sustained as a result of Jim's getting on and off while wearing his backpack. Frame AS15-88- 11901 shows the Rover at it's final parking place. Brian Lawrence notes that the left-front fender is missing. At the back, we can see the rake, but neither of the tongs. the dust brush in on Dave's seat. What appears to be a 16-mm magazine is on Jim's seat. If so, it is probably the one Dave removed from the 16-mm camera after 167:27:19. Ron Creel has provided a summary ( 1.3 Mb PDF ) of the fender extension losses that occurred on all three Rover missions.]

[Keith Wilson writes in 1999, "In a 1990 communication, Jim Irwin told me that Dave Scott left a small red Bible on the LRV. Andy Chaikin also mentions this in his book 'A Man On The Moon' - Andy states that the Bible was left on the 'control panel'. I believe that the Bible can be seen edge on in AS15-88- 11901 propped up against the drive control handle. Irwin also told me that he left several objects on the Moon but not on the LRV."]

[scott, from a 1999 communication - "Keith is right on! What a great scan -- really clear! And the Bible can be clearly seen leaning against the T-handle; exactly where I placed it. Your troops (meaning the ALSJ Team) are awesome."]

[Kipp Teague has produced a detail scan of the bible.]

[Frame 88-11902 shows the back of the Rover and, beyond it, the card listing the fallen astronauts and cosmonauts. Frame 88-11903 shows the astronaut/cosmonaut memorial. Note that the Rover tracks in this area do not seem to be as dark as those near the ALSEP. Mt. Hadley is in the background. Frames 88- 11904 to 11915 show Mt. Hadley and the Swann Range, and 11916 is centered on Silver Spur. Frame 88- 11917 shows Mt. Hadley Delta with the bright crater on the east rim of St. George Crater at the right edge. Note that the Rover tracks in the foreground are not appreciably darkened. Frame 88- 11921 shows St. George Crater. Notice how washed out the details are compared with the pictures such as 85-11376 which Dave took during the SEVA at about 106:53:45. The final frame, 88- 11925 shows the LM. Jim is nowhere in sight and may be hand-carrying gear up to the porch.]

[Evan Burton]

BEST TRACKLESS ROVER

The image is a close up of the fender repair to the LRV, and was taken at about 143 hrs 46 min.

The fact that sometime the LRV tracks are very light or difficult to spot is well documented. Add to that the lack of view of the surrounding area, and it's difficult to refute this one. I looked around for the preceding images, and there were some low-res ones showing the LRV in the distance, but nothing you could use to see any tracks.

Until I found AS17-138-21039.

21039 was taken at 143 hrs 11 min. From the ALSJ:

143:11:27 Cernan: Take a picture of that and then your locator, I'll get it.

[Jack's down-Sun "before" is AS17-138- 21038 and his "locator" to the Rover is 21039 (scan by Kipp Teague). In the "locator", notice the disturbed soil around Boulder 1. Note also, Jack's footprints farther to the right. This was his path back from the Rover with the rake. Wessex Cleft is in the far distance above the Rover.]

Although it was taken 35 mins before the colour image Jack has shown, the LRV has not moved in that time.

Read the ALSJ Geology Station 2 section between the two times and you'll confirm that the LRV was not moved between the image below and Jack's image (AS17-137-20979):

AS17-138-21039 (annotated)

[Evan Burton]

ON WAY TO FINAL PARKING PLACE, ROVER CHANGES ON THE RUN

In this instance, I don't know if Jack has once more failed to do his homework or is trying to be deliberately deceptive.

The image on the left (AS17-135-20542) was taken at 141 hrs 27 mins, at the SEP site during EVA-2.

The second image (AS17-143-21933) was taken at 170 hrs 24 mins, nearly 30 hours later, at the closeout of EVA-3.

During that time, well, I guess they might have moved some of the stuff on the LRV. It would be a shame to have spent all that time collecting samples and then not take them back with you.

Some of the points Jack has raised about the LRV:

1. The rake:

ALSJ -

169:23:22 Schmitt: Say again, Bob. You want that...(To Gene, having reached the gate) I don't have a scoop, I don't even have a rake.

169:23:28 Cernan: They're both gone, huh?

169:23:29 Schmitt: Yup.

[Jack's EP-2 "locator" - AS17-143-21924 - shows that the rake and scoop were gone at that time. A comparison with AS17-135- 20542 suggests that the extension handles came out of the mounting brackets. Those are shown most clearly in AS17-146-22296 which was taken at the end of Station 6. At 169:38:29, they will confirm that the extension handles were lost, that it was a failure of the mounting brackets that caused the losses.]

[schmitt - "A bunch of Okies going across the countryside, dropping stuff right and left."]

2. This is the Lunar Seismic Profiling Experiment (LSPE), which contained explosives. No need to take unused explosives back. See here.

3. See 1.

4. Sample container bags. The samples have been transferred to the LM and the spare bags discarded.

5. The fender:

170:01:00 Schmitt: I will. (Long Pause)

[AS17-143- 21932 shows the final Rover parking configuration.]

[Cernan - "I sit here (looking at the picture) and swear that I parked the Rover with the wheels straight. That's the final parking? Well, we're behind the LM and it's about the right distance."]

[Schmitt - "Why doesn't it have a fender?"]

[Cernan - "I took it off. Both of them. I took them both home."]

[At some point before he goes back to the LM, Gene will remove the replacement fender - which is now at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington. He will also remove the rear section of the left rear fender - which is now on display at the Johnson Space Center's Visitor's Center.]

also:

170:19:48 Cernan: Okay; let me get one parting shot (photo) one of the finest running little machines I've ever had the pleasure to drive. (Pause)

[Gene takes AS17-143- 21931 to 21934. One of the best of these is 21933. Note Gene has removed the replacement fender and, from the left side, the rear extension. One seismic charge (LSPE) remains in the transporter. Gene will deployit at the west end of the SEP antenna array at 170:24:16]

6. That's the LRV frame, Jack. The frame is in shadow.

7. Jack must have cut the top off the antenna when he did one of his infamous 'crop jobs'. It's clearly there in AS17-143-21933.

Here is a good diagramme of the LRV and it's equipment:

LRV details (diagramme from Press Kit) from the National Air & Space Museum

The background:

Once again, the similarity of backgrounds has fooled people. In 20542, the point Jack has indicated is NOT the same point as he has indicated in 21933. The point indicated in 20542 is actually to the left of the position Jack has marked in 21933, and can be see in the FULL frame. In this case, Jack has cropped it out.

Here is a comparison of the horizons. The top two images are the ones Jack has used (20542 and 21933), joined together, then compared with a pan shot of the horizon. The bottom image is from a pan shot taken at the LM, and consists of AS17-147-22493 through AS17-147-22497.

Comparison of AS17-135-20542 (HR), AS17-143-21933 (HR), and AS17-147-22493 through AS17-147-22497 (cropped, annotated, scaled)

The pan shot I have used above is taken from just north of the LM. You can see it in the full pan (known as

Jack's 4 o'clock EVA-1 LM Pan).

I've also made a 'locator' mud map so you can get an idea of where the images where taken from, what they where looking at, and what features you would expect to see.

Now, some things to note.

In AS17-135-20542 & AS17-143-21933, we are EAST of the LM.

You can see the LM in 21933.

In 20542, it is hidden behind the LRV. Have a look at 20541 (the preceeding frame), and you can see the LM. Both frames are taken from the about the same location, but in 20541 the LRV is still at the LM, just about to leave.

The reason that the LM appears to "move" (as Jack is bound to question this) is because they are taken from different perspectives with regard to the LM. They are both about 150m east of the LM, but remember that those "hills" are over 10km away.

EDITED TO ADD:

1. Don't forget to check the ALSJ, check all the pans I have referenced, and the individual images I have presented. Make sure for yourself what I am telling you is correct.

2. The "editor comments" - the LRV was NOT parked "several kilometers away from the LM". It had to be 137m (that's METRES) away from the LM in order for the LRV camera to be able to pan and catch the ascent stage launching.

170:20:41 Parker: Roger. We're satisfied with the TV, Gene. We're ready for you to take the EP number 3. (Pause)

[Gene is now on CDR-33. In Houston, Fendell tells the Flight Director that the distance is "well over" the 450 feet (137 meters) he needs. An analysis of mission photographs of the LM taken at the final parking place and at the SEP deployment site indicates that Gene parked the Rover about 158 meters from the LM.]

Here is another comparison of the horizon:

Edited March 10, 2006 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

FINAL RESTING PLACE FOR ROVER?

To start, Jack says that both images (AS17-146-22367 and AS17-143-21933) are captioned as 'final resting place of the rover'.

Utter nonsense.

In the ALSJ, AS17-143-21933 is noted as the final parking position for the LRV.

AS17-146-22367 is noted as being a 'locator' shot, taken at Geology Station 8, nearly 5 km away from the final parking position, and taken three and a half hours earlier than 21933.

Is this a deliberate deception on Jack's part, or simply inaccurate / lack of research? Is Jack misleading people, or is he simply incompetent?

166:53:35 Cernan: Yeah. Thanks a lot. (Long Pause)

[Gene makes his way cross slope to a boulder due north of the Rover. This is the sample 78135 location as indicated in the Station 8 plan map. Jack is climbing farther uphill to another rock, which is the sample 78220 location. Fendell starts to follow Gene, doesn't find him, and goes back to Jack. Gene's cross-Sun stereo pictures of the rock near the Rover are AS17-146- 22365 and 22366. Ulli Lotzmann has created a stereo-image from the pair.]

[Frame 22367 is a "locator" to the Rover. This excellent picture shows the TV camera pointed off to the left and the high-gain antenna pointed back towards Earth, which is over the South Massif. Note that the low-gain antenna, which is partially hidden by the high-gain is also pointed at Earth. The SEP antenna is behind Jack's seat and the rake for the explosive charges is visible on the back of the Rover. The East Massif is at the upper right. Readers should note the dark blemish on the East Massif foothill above and slightly to the right of the SEP antenna. This is the outcrop area that Gene notes as he and Jack leave Station 8 at 167:39:41.]

Next - "How did it get there without leaving wheel tracks in the moondust?"

The LRV by this time was very light. Most equipment had been removed. Also take a look at the tyres in the high resolution version of AS17-143-21933. They are a mesh design and the chevrons on them aren't very thick. It's possible the activity around the LRV has obliterated what tracks there were. In 21932, a low-res image, you can see what might be tracks to right of the LRV.

A later image at the same location, though, does show tracks going out to that site:

AS17-143-21936

"Why was it being parked so far from the LEM?"

So that the TV camera on the LRV could capture the ascent stage liftoff:

169:59:15 Parker: Okay. And Ed Fendell is hard on my back to remind you that it's better to be too far away than too close.

[because of the great distance between the Earth and Moon and other factors, Fendell will have to command the TV camera to start panning upward about 2 seconds before the actual launch. That way, the camera will actually start tilting up at the right time. The farther from the LM that Gene parks the Rover, the smaller the fraction of the TV frame that the LM will fill; and any mistakes Fendell makes in the panning speed won't matter quite so much. From the time that Fendell pushes the button in Houston to move the TV camera until the time he actually sees the camera move is about 6 seconds. In the first two seconds, the signal leaves Houston and travels by land or satellite link to one of the three large transmitters (Goldstone, Honeysuckle, or Madrid), then travels to the Moon (1 1/3 seconds out of the 2 seconds), and activates the TV tracking motors. During the next four seconds, the signal leaves the TV and travels back to Earth where the color-wheel signal is translated into a standard video signal for display in the Control Room.]

********************

170:01:21 Cernan: And now comes the hardest (high-gain antenna) alignment of them all! But I'll get it. (Long Pause) Somewhere about there. See if I can't tweak it up for you.

[Gene has parked the Rover pointed a little bit south of west, necessarily in the general direction of the LM so that the TV can be used to watch the launch. Because Earth is in the southwestern sky, the bore sight on the high-gain antenna is over the batteries and Gene is having to lean in to do the alignment. The normal Rover heading at one of the geology stops was 045 (northeast). With that heading, the high-gain was pointed back over the Rover and Gene could stand comfortably at the front of the vehicle to do the sighting.]

*********************

170:20:29 Cernan: Oh, what a nice little machine! Parked on a little downslope, but at the heading you want, and I guess Ed's satisfied with the TV response, huh?

170:20:41 Parker: Roger. We're satisfied with the TV, Gene. We're ready for you to take the EP number 3. (Pause)

[Gene is now on CDR-33. In Houston, Fendell tells the Flight Director that the distance is "well over" the 450 feet (137 meters) he needs. Gene's photos shows that the distance is about 145 meters.]

"Why are both rear fender bottom sections missing?"

Because they were taken by Gene Cernan as keepsakes (see my previous posts regards this matter).

"Why does the rear of the Rover have a different appearance" / Wheel directions?

Because you have misidentified the colour image as I said in the beginning of this post. That colour image was taken at an entirely different location.

Reply to Editor's comments:

1. Dish is pointed differently because they are two different location, not the same as Jack has said.

2. I would say it is more like 10km according to the traverse map.

3. (sigh) Because they are taken in different locations!!!

I thought editors were supposed to check people's work? The Aulis editor has not checked any facts whatsoever. They have just blindly accepted Jack's work as accurate, without checking the most basic of details. Would it be because they hold a similar view, and that any discrediting of Jack's work would also weaken their own (already flawed) claims? What does that say about the validity of the remainder of the Aulis website? You can be guarenteed of one thing - they won't publicise this thread on their own website because it fatally damages their own claims.

(Edited to correct syntax errors)

Edited March 9, 2006 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

SHOULD EARTH BE SEEN IN BOTH CONSECUTIVE A17 PHOTOS?

Short answer - no.

From the ALSJ:

118:25:54 Schmitt: I don't think it's going...You're a little close, maybe, to have them both in focus. That might do it.

[Gene starts to bend his knees and, in an effort to get Earth in the picture along with Jack and the flag, almost gets down on his knees. His first effort, AS17-134- 20383 gets the flag but very little of Jack and the Earth, his second photo, AS17-134-20384, is much more successful. After he gets up, Gene gives Jack the camera and they trade places.]

118:26:08 Cernan: Try that one time, then we'll give up and get to work. (Long Pause)

[Jack holds the camera in his hand and gets it as low to the ground as he can without kneeling.]

118:26:26 Cernan: Point it up a little...Yeah. (Pause)

[This is AS17-134- 20385.]

118:26:32 Schmitt: Let me try it again.

118:26:33 Cernan: Okay.

[This is AS17-134-20386. This photo shows the "red apple" actuator for the purge valve reasonably well.]

118:26:35 Schmitt: I don't know, Geno.

118:26:36 Cernan: Okay.

118:26:38 Schmitt: Let me get over here closer to you. (Pause)

[Once again, Jack almost goes to his knees.]

118:26:43 Schmitt: Okay. That might have got it.

[This photo is AS17-134-20387 and, in addition to having Earth in the picture, it shows Gene's checklist and watch/mirror band on his left arm, the OPS actuator on the right side of his RCU, and the OPS antenna on the top of his PLSS. The red bands on the suit and helmet show that this is Gene and not Jack.]

118:26:45 Cernan: Okay, very good.

Research, Jack, research.

[Evan Burton]

VISOR REFLECTION ANOMOLY

It's no anomoly.

1. The flag is closer to Schmitt's visor than Gene is.

2. Gene is almost kneeling to get Earth in the photo (see previous post).

3. The visor is a curved surface, which distorts the reflected image.

As for the "editor comments":

"This finding by Jack White does not tally with the recorded Apollo 17 TV coverage. Therefore this still image and the TV transmissions of this event cannot both be valid."

Yet again, the Aulis people - like Jack - lead you astray. Have a look at the TV footage of the event, and judge for yourself whether the ALSJ describes an accurate picture of events or if the Aulis people are being accurate.

I think, like me, you'll find that Jack & Aulis are either being deceptive or grossly inaccurate.

(Link is a Real Video stream)