Deaths of Witnesses

[William Kelly]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address?

Congress recently considered but did not yet pass the Emmett Till Bill that would form a joint agency Task Force with the mission of solving unresolved civil rights homicides of the 60s and 70s. While this effort would be focused on those killed in the South by racists, the civil rights of these murdered witnesses and suspects would also qualify as case studies for this Task Force.

In addition, whenever a new prosecutor or District Attorney takes over a jurisdictional district, those unresloved cases are usually reviewed by new detectives to see if any new witnesses or evidence has been uncovered or scientific advances can assist in a new evaluaiton of old evidence.

Someone with time on their hands could contact the relevant district attorney in each of these cases and request an update on their investigations.

BK

RELATED UNSOLVED HOMICIDES – And their Jurisdictions. Human Hearts to chew.

UNSUB : Unknown Subject/suspect

1) Henry Marshall – June 3, 1961– Franklin, Texas. Gassed with Carbon Monixide, shot seven times with rifle, originally ruled suicide.

2) John F. Kennedy – November 22, 1963 – Dallas, Texas. Shot in head by sniper(s).UNSUB#1 & UNSUB#2.

3) J.D. Tippit – November 22, 1963 – Dallas, Texas. Dallas policeman shot by pedestrian. UNSUB #3.

4) Lee Harvey Oswald – November 24, 1963 – Dallas, Texas. Suspect shot by JACK RUBY in police custody.

5) Karyn Kupcient – November 26, 1963 – Los Angeles, California. Strangled in apartment. UNSUB #4.

6) Jack Zangretti – Dec., 1963 – Lake Lugert, Texas. Chicago mobster shot by UNSUB #5.

7) Jim Koethe – Sept. 21, 1964 – Dallas, Tx.. Reporter assaulted in apartment by UNSUB #6. (Same MO as #4).

8) Mary Pinocot Meyer – October 12, 1964 – Georgetown Canal, Washington D.C. Assaulted by UNSUB #7.

9) Elidio Delvalle – February, 1967 – Miami, Florida. Murdered in automobile on streetcorner by UNSUB #8.

10) Martin Luther King, Jr. – 1968 – Memphis, Tenn. Shot by sniper UNSUB #9.

11) Robert F. Kennedy – June, 1968 – L. A., California. Shot by handgun UNSUB #10 with Sirhan B. Sirhan.

12) Salvadore Allende – September 11, 1972 – Santiago, Chile. Assassinated during military coup.

13) Charles Horman – September, 1972 – Santiago, Chile. Murdered by assassination squad of Augusta Pinochet.

14) Jose Dela Torriente – April 12, 1974 – Florida. Former Collins Radio Cuban, shot by sniper UNSUB #11

15) Dave Yaras – 1974 – Chicago. Mobster murdered gangland style. UNSUB #12

16) Charles Nicoletti – 1974 – Chicago. Murdered gangland style. UNSUB #13

17) Sam Giancana – 1975 – Chicago. Murdered gangland style. UNSUB #14

18) John Roselli – July, 1976 – Florida. Shot on boat, chopped and deep sixed in oil can. UNSUB #15

19) Orlando Letelier/Ronnie Moffitt – September, 1976. Dupont Circle, Washington D.C. Double bombing victims.

20) Navy Lt. Pitzer. Bethesda, Maryland. Suspicious death, considered murder. UNSUB #16

21) Others to be added. Unknown Victims yet to be identified.

"I met Murder on the way –

He had a mask like Castlereagh:

Very smooth he looked, yet grim;

Seven bloodhounds followed him.

All were fat; and well they might

Be in admirable plight,

For one by one, and two by two,

He tossed them human hearts to chew."

The Masque of Anarchy. From: "Studies In Murder" by Edmund Lester Pearson.

Edited May 18, 2007 by William Kelly

[Duke Lane]

November James Worrell Jr., who saw man flee rear of Texas School Book Depository, dies in car crash.

I will have to get you the actual date on this, but Dicky Worrell was 27 when he died in a motorcycle crash, together with a female friend/passenger. The only thing "suspicious" about it is that Dicky was with a girl. Dicky was a witness before the Warren Commission, but that's all.

[Kathleen Collins]

Bill, I want to thank you for mentioning Karyn Kupcinet as an important death. There's a site called: 'groups.yahoo.com/group/Karyn_Kupcinet'

We are at a dead end regarding her death, no pun intended. There are so many suspects. One recently died. And another looks like he's seen better days. Just one thing: you have Karyn's date of death wrong. She was murdered in the early hours of Nov. 28 (Thanksgiving) in 1963. Cops estimated around 12:30 am. She wasn't discovered till night of Nov. 30, 1963. From what I read, if you block the carotid arteries or one of them, the victim dies in moments. Maybe something happened by accident. But the place was in mayhem.

Kathy

[John Dolva]

6) Jack Zangretti – Dec., 1963 – Lake Lugert, Texas. Chicago mobster shot by UNSUB #5.

_____________________________

"Project Pale Horse sidestepped the official U. S. Intelligence Coordination and Exploitation Program (ICEX), Lao, and GVN military chain of command, and had been running six years prior to the establishment of the "official" GVN Phoenix (Kế Hoạch Phụng Hoàng) program in Vietnam" IOW pre OP PHOENIX in '62 - '63.

Other accounts tell of selected Americans were also targeted for termination. One possible victim:

"Marguerite Higgins bluntly accused the American authorities of the November 2nd, 1963 killing of Premier Diem and his brother Nhu. A few months after her accusation, she died in a landmine explosion in Vietnam."

_______________________

Zangretti : Lake Lugert - Oklahoma (not Texas)

"On Saturday, November 23, 1963, Jack Zangetty, the manager of a $150,000 modular motel complex near Lake Lugert, Oklahoma, remarked to some friends that "Three other men -- not Oswald -- killed the President."...Two weeks later, Jack Zangetty was found floating in Lake Lugert with bullet holes in his chest. It appeared to witnesses he had been in the water one to two weeks."

"Lou Staples, a radio announcer who was doing a good many of his radio shows on the Kennedy assassination, lost his life sometime on Friday night, May 13, 1977. This was near Yukon, Oklahoma. He had been having radio shows on the assassination since 1973 and the response to his programs was overwhelming."

Some interesting connections with Oklahoma.

Harry D. Holmes was born there, but then it was called 'Indian Territory'. He then moved to Kansas City. There is a Kansas news article where a Harry Holmes shoots a younger boy from behind in the head, killing him (no witnesses). The ages of the Harry's don't match by a few years. But it's a curious coincidence nevertheless. (Probably not to be taken too seriously.)

Walkers long time Lawyer, Watts had his office in Oklahoma. (aptly named Loony, Loony and Watts etc) From there, investigators were sent to Dallas on Walkers behalf to investigate the Walker shooting.

_______________________

During the search for the Mississippi three 'a number of other bodies and body parts were found'. One wore a CORE T-shirt.

One of the Mississippi three victims had an independent autopsy allowed where the Southern Coroners report was shown to be suspect. Far more bones were obviously broken indicating a chain whipping. Accompanying all this is a plethora of "heart attacks" death certificates of blacks, caused by gunshots.

It seems that killings, often auto accdents. were pre event coordinated by Police, ighway Patrol, Coroners and the Killers, often KKK. (see assorted MSC docs).

______________

Where/who is Faye L. Blunt? He seems to have disappeared post WC publication after he renewed a connection with the FBI concerning an account told to him by a fifth floor prisoner viewing suspicious activity in the Terminal Annexe building which he tried repeatedly to get the FBI to ovestigate. I suspect he may have been a Chicago Black man, possibly in some welfare position.

______________

There are the unknown witesseses which may be found by statistical analysis of John and Jane Doe's in unmarked graves, records in the area around Dallas and other places.

Edited May 18, 2007 by John Dolva

[Charles Black]

Please do not turn this into a criticism of THIS forum, but of forums in general.

But this particular thread, I feel, is very indicative of what often happens.

WE begin with a most excellent subject, which somehow gets directed toward one tangent. This tangent or singular small aspect of the general subject, which is usually not terribly important within itself, "consumes" the original importance of the subject.

The result is frequently many pages (thousands of words) that add nothing that is terribly relevant to what is sometimes a very important subject, that is "talked to death", without entering the heart of the matter. We therefore later must return to the "important and relevant" subject....and often go thru the same process....often again with the same results.

I don't have a solution, merely a childish Utopian wish that discussions result in conclusions !

Charles Black

Edited May 19, 2007 by Charles Black

[Terry Mauro]

6) Jack Zangretti – Dec., 1963 – Lake Lugert, Texas. Chicago mobster shot by UNSUB #5.

_____________________________

"Project Pale Horse sidestepped the official U. S. Intelligence Coordination and Exploitation Program (ICEX), Lao, and GVN military chain of command, and had been running six years prior to the establishment of the "official" GVN Phoenix (Kế Hoạch Phụng Hoàng) program in Vietnam" IOW pre OP PHOENIX in '62 - '63.

Other accounts tell of selected Americans were also targeted for termination. One possible victim:

"Marguerite Higgins bluntly accused the American authorities of the November 2nd, 1963 killing of Premier Diem and his brother Nhu. A few months after her accusation, she died in a landmine explosion in Vietnam."

_______________________

Zangretti : Lake Lugert - Oklahoma (not Texas)

"On Saturday, November 23, 1963, Jack Zangetty, the manager of a $150,000 modular motel complex near Lake Lugert, Oklahoma, remarked to some friends that "Three other men -- not Oswald -- killed the President."...Two weeks later, Jack Zangetty was found floating in Lake Lugert with bullet holes in his chest. It appeared to witnesses he had been in the water one to two weeks."

"Lou Staples, a radio announcer who was doing a good many of his radio shows on the Kennedy assassination, lost his life sometime on Friday night, May 13, 1977. This was near Yukon, Oklahoma. He had been having radio shows on the assassination since 1973 and the response to his programs was overwhelming."

Some interesting connections with Oklahoma.

Harry D. Holmes was born there, but then it was called 'Indian Territory'. He then moved to Kansas City. There is a Kansas news article where a Harry Holmes shoots a younger boy from behind in the head, killing him (no witnesses). The ages of the Harry's don't match by a few years. But it's a curious coincidence nevertheless. (Probably not to be taken too seriously.)

Walkers long time Lawyer, Watts had his office in Oklahoma. (aptly named Loony, Loony and Watts etc) From there, investigators were sent to Dallas on Walkers behalf to investigate the Walker shooting.

_______________________

During the search for the Mississippi three, a number of other bodies and body parts were found'. One wore a CORE T-shirt.

One of the Mississippi three victims had an independent autopsy allowed where the Southern Coroners report was shown to be suspect. Far more bones were obviously broken indicating a chain whipping. Accompanying all this is a plethora of "heart attacks" death certificates of blacks, caused by gunshots.

It seems that killings, often auto accdents. were pre event coordinated by Police, Highway Patrol, Coroners and the Killers, often KKK. (see assorted MSC docs).

______________

Where/who is Faye L. Blunt? He seems to have disappeared post WC publication after he renewed a connection with the FBI concerning an account told to him by a fifth floor prisoner viewing suspicious activity in the Terminal Annexe building which he tried repeatedly to get the FBI to investigate. I suspect he may have been a Chicago Black man, possibly in some welfare position.

______________

There are the unknown witesseses which may be found by statistical analysis of John and Jane Doe's in unmarked graves, records in the area around Dallas and other places.

****************************************************************

One of the Mississippi Three happened to be Michael Schwerner, my [New Rochelle High School] Biology teacher's son, from Pelham, NY. A friend of my family's. The report of the three Civil Rights workers bodies having been found in a shallow grave in Mississippi happened to have appeared in both the New Rochelle Standard Star, and the New York Times newspapers, in June 1964, coinciding with, and around the same time those ridiculous sketches of the "magic bullet's" trajectory through JFK's body were released from the Warren Commission Report [Lie].

So, between watching LHO request an attorney, and not being supplied with so much as a Public Defender, from the time of his arrest on November 22, 1963, to his death by gunshot wound to the abdomen on November 23, 1963. Then, after witnessing the funeral of my beloved President, observing the rapid escalation of the Vietnam War in 1964, only to be told with crudely drawn sketches, that this was how my President was killed, and to assume I was stupid enough to accept this scientifically absurd, logistic, and ballistic impossibility, no let me rephrase that, implausibility, known as the ''magic bullet." Couple this with the brutal death of a friend of my family's, who had been working to ensure the voting rights of Black American citizens, rights that should have been "a given," and were supposedly "guaranteed" a hundred years hence, by the Fourteenth Amendment, following the Civil War in 1865. Well, that was what you could term, "the end of the innocence," occurring within that seven month time span, in my faith and trust in the United States government. These events, their images, and the culmination thereof, would follow me for the rest of my life, indelibly influencing my social and political views.

[Terry Mauro]

Please do not turn this into a criticism of THIS forum, but of forums in general.

But this particular thread, I feel, is very indicative of what often happens.

WE begin with a most excellent subject, which somehow gets directed toward one tangent. This tangent or singular small aspect of the general subject, which is usually not terribly important within itself, "consumes" the original importance of the subject.

The result is frequently many pages (thousands of words) that add nothing that is terribly relevant to what is sometimes a very important subject, that is "talked to death", without entering the heart of the matter. We therefore later must return to the "important and relevant" subject....and often go thru the same process....often again with the same results.

I don't have a solution, merely a childish Utopian wish that discussions result in conclusions !

Charles Black

****************************************************************************

"WE begin with a most excellent subject, which somehow gets directed toward one tangent. This tangent or singular small aspect of the general subject, which is usually not terribly important within itself, "consumes" the original importance of the subject."

You and John Dolva have brought up some excellent points, in this regard. I appreciate your suggestions on focusing the topic at hand, and John's ideas on which aspects would deem the more productive as far as rendering results in the form of data gathering are concerned. Especially on a particular individual, such as a DeMohrenschildt, or a Roselli, both of whom were considered to be viable "assets."

Edited May 19, 2007 by Terry Mauro

[Terry Mauro]

6) Jack Zangretti – Dec., 1963 – Lake Lugert, Texas. Chicago mobster shot by UNSUB #5.

_____________________________

"Project Pale Horse sidestepped the official U. S. Intelligence Coordination and Exploitation Program (ICEX), Lao, and GVN military chain of command, and had been running six years prior to the establishment of the "official" GVN Phoenix (Kế Hoạch Phụng Hoàng) program in Vietnam" IOW pre OP PHOENIX in '62 - '63.

Other accounts tell of selected Americans were also targeted for termination. One possible victim:

"Marguerite Higgins bluntly accused the American authorities of the November 2nd, 1963 killing of Premier Diem and his brother Nhu. A few months after her accusation, she died in a landmine explosion in Vietnam."

_______________________

Zangretti : Lake Lugert - Oklahoma (not Texas)

"On Saturday, November 23, 1963, Jack Zangetty, the manager of a $150,000 modular motel complex near Lake Lugert, Oklahoma, remarked to some friends that "Three other men -- not Oswald -- killed the President."...Two weeks later, Jack Zangetty was found floating in Lake Lugert with bullet holes in his chest. It appeared to witnesses he had been in the water one to two weeks."

"Lou Staples, a radio announcer who was doing a good many of his radio shows on the Kennedy assassination, lost his life sometime on Friday night, May 13, 1977. This was near Yukon, Oklahoma. He had been having radio shows on the assassination since 1973 and the response to his programs was overwhelming."

Some interesting connections with Oklahoma.

Harry D. Holmes was born there, but then it was called 'Indian Territory'. He then moved to Kansas City. There is a Kansas news article where a Harry Holmes shoots a younger boy from behind in the head, killing him (no witnesses). The ages of the Harry's don't match by a few years. But it's a curious coincidence nevertheless. (Probably not to be taken too seriously.)

Walkers long time Lawyer, Watts had his office in Oklahoma. (aptly named Loony, Loony and Watts etc) From there, investigators were sent to Dallas on Walkers behalf to investigate the Walker shooting.

_______________________

During the search for the Mississippi three, a number of other bodies and body parts were found'. One wore a CORE T-shirt.

One of the Mississippi three victims had an independent autopsy allowed where the Southern Coroners report was shown to be suspect. Far more bones were obviously broken indicating a chain whipping. Accompanying all this is a plethora of "heart attacks" death certificates of blacks, caused by gunshots.

It seems that killings, often auto accdents. were pre event coordinated by Police, Highway Patrol, Coroners and the Killers, often KKK. (see assorted MSC docs).

______________

Where/who is Faye L. Blunt? He seems to have disappeared post WC publication after he renewed a connection with the FBI concerning an account told to him by a fifth floor prisoner viewing suspicious activity in the Terminal Annexe building which he tried repeatedly to get the FBI to investigate. I suspect he may have been a Chicago Black man, possibly in some welfare position.

______________

There are the unknown witesseses which may be found by statistical analysis of John and Jane Doe's in unmarked graves, records in the area around Dallas and other places.

****************************************************************

One of the Mississippi Three happened to be Michael Schwerner, my [New Rochelle High School] Biology teacher's son, from Pelham, NY. A friend of my family's. The report of the three Civil Rights workers bodies having been found in a shallow grave in Mississippi happened to have appeared in both the New Rochelle Standard Star, and the New York Times newspapers, in June 1964, coinciding with, and around the same time those ridiculous sketches of the "magic bullet's" trajectory through JFK's body were released from the Warren Commission Report [Lie].

So, between watching LHO request an attorney, and not being supplied with so much as a Public Defender, from the time of his arrest on November 22, 1963, to his death by gunshot wound to the abdomen on November 23, 1963. Then, after witnessing the funeral of my beloved President, observing the rapid escalation of the Vietnam War in 1964, only to be told with crudely drawn sketches, that this was how my President was killed, and to assume I was stupid enough to accept this scientifically absurd, logistic, and ballistic impossibility, no let me rephrase that, implausibility, known as the ''magic bullet." Couple this with the brutal death of a friend of my family's, who had been working to ensure the voting rights of Black American citizens, rights that should have been "a given," and were supposedly "guaranteed" a hundred years hence, by the Fourteenth Amendment, following the Civil War in 1865. Well, that was what you could term, "the end of the innocence," occurring within that seven month time span, in my faith and trust in the United States government. These events, their images, and the culmination thereof, would follow me for the rest of my life, indelibly influencing my social and political views.

********************************************************************

BULLETIN! BULLETIN! STOP THE PRESSES!

Thank you Kathleen, for your timely, watch-dog response. I will leave the error in place, bold in red, for all to witness my slip-shod attempts at recollection. Your "Kathy-On-The-Spot" award for efforts at maintaining journalistic integrity, is on the way.

_________________________________________

Typographical Error ( From: Kathleen Collins )

Terry, I just want to tell you in your post on dead witnesses that you wrote LHO was killed...Nov.23. It was Nov. 24.

Kathy

Kathleen Collins is a member of the Members group and has 262 posts.

Sent on: Today, 08:29 PM

_________________________________________

Kathleen Collins is our on-site winning recipient of "The Hedda Hopper-Louella Parsons Award" for Journalistic Excellence!

[Myra Bronstein]

Flag set post.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Myra Bronstein]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address?

...

You have so many ideas about how other people can spend their time on this case BK.

Will you be following up on your own suggestions?

Edited May 20, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Thomas Graves]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address? [emphasis added by T.G.]

[...]

___________________________________

Bill,

I totally agree. Much more practical....

--Thomas

___________________________________

[William Kelly]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address?

...

You have so many ideas about how other people can spend their time on this case BK.

Will you be following up on your own suggestions?

Myra,

I just read Bugliosi's book while on the hopper, and he's got me convinced.

I was wrong all along. My instincts betrayed me. All that time wasted. As the Bug says:

"...The best course of action for those in the conspiracy community would be to just give up and find a new passion."

So no, I won't be following up on my own suggestions.

And I'm taking up wine.

BK

[Myra Bronstein]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address?

...

You have so many ideas about how other people can spend their time on this case BK.

Will you be following up on your own suggestions?

Myra,

I just read Bugliosi's book while on the hopper, and he's got me convinced.

I was wrong all along. My instincts betrayed me. All that time wasted. As the Bug says:

"...The best course of action for those in the conspiracy community would be to just give up and find a new passion."

So no, I won't be following up on my own suggestions.

And I'm taking up wine.

BK

Well, your post is enough convince me.

I shan't waste another instant.

From now on I'll be drinking a lot of wine.

On the hopper.

[Terry Mauro]

Rather than focus on mysterious deaths, why not generate enough interest to solve the verifiable homicides that the criminal justice system must address?

...

You have so many ideas about how other people can spend their time on this case BK.

Will you be following up on your own suggestions?

Myra,

I just read Bugliosi's book while on the hopper, and he's got me convinced.

I was wrong all along. My instincts betrayed me. All that time wasted. As the Bug says:

"...The best course of action for those in the conspiracy community would be to just give up and find a new passion."

So no, I won't be following up on my own suggestions.

And I'm taking up wine.

BK

********************************************************

"I just read Bugliosi's book while on the hopper, and he's got me convinced.

I was wrong all along. My instincts betrayed me. All that time wasted."

Get outta here, Billy! Surely you jest?

[Terry Mauro]

Flag set post.

************************************************************

"Flag set post."

I've noticed this popping up every so often. What does it stand for?

Thanks,

Ter