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Of all the peripheral characters whose lives were destroyed by what they saw and heard on Nov. 22, 1963, there is no sadder or more tragic case than that of Roger Craig, Dallas detective.

"I ran to the front of the Texas School Book Depository where I asked for anyone involved in the investigation. There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit. I was naive enough at the time to believe that the only people there were actually officers -- after all, this was the command post. I gave him the information. He showed little interest in the persons leaving. However, he seemed extremely interested in the description of the Rambler. This was the only part of my statement which he wrote down in his little pad he was holding. Point: Mrs. Ruth Paine, the woman Marina Oswald lived with in Irving, Texas, owned a Rambler station wagon, at that time, of this same color.

I learned nothing of this "Secret Service Agent's" identity until December 22, 1967 while we were living in New Orleans. The television was on as I came home from work one night and there on the screen was a picture of this man. I did not know what it was all about until my wife told me that Jim Garrison had charged him with being a part of the assassination plot. I called Jim Garrison then and told him that this was the man I had seen in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Jim then sent one of his investigators to see me with a better picture which I identified. I then learned that this man's name was Edgar Eugene Bradley."

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Of all the peripheral characters whose lives were destroyed by what they saw and heard on Nov. 22, 1963, there is no sadder or more tragic case than that of Roger Craig, Dallas detective.

"I ran to the front of the Texas School Book Depository where I asked for anyone involved in the investigation. There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit. I was naive enough at the time to believe that the only people there were actually officers -- after all, this was the command post. I gave him the information. He showed little interest in the persons leaving. However, he seemed extremely interested in the description of the Rambler. This was the only part of my statement which he wrote down in his little pad he was holding. Point: Mrs. Ruth Paine, the woman Marina Oswald lived with in Irving, Texas, owned a Rambler station wagon, at that time, of this same color.

I learned nothing of this "Secret Service Agent's" identity until December 22, 1967 while we were living in New Orleans. The television was on as I came home from work one night and there on the screen was a picture of this man. I did not know what it was all about until my wife told me that Jim Garrison had charged him with being a part of the assassination plot. I called Jim Garrison then and told him that this was the man I had seen in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Jim then sent one of his investigators to see me with a better picture which I identified. I then learned that this man's name was Edgar Eugene Bradley."

Peter,

Edgar Eugene Bradley was on a commercial airliner at the time of the assassination.

An associate of Rev. Carl MacIntyre, some say Jim Garrison mistook Edgar Eugene Bradley for Eugene Hale Brading (aka Jim Braden), who was taken into custody as a suspicous person at Dealey Plaza.

BK

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Of all the peripheral characters whose lives were destroyed by what they saw and heard on Nov. 22, 1963, there is no sadder or more tragic case than that of Roger Craig, Dallas detective.

"I ran to the front of the Texas School Book Depository where I asked for anyone involved in the investigation. There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit. I was naive enough at the time to believe that the only people there were actually officers -- after all, this was the command post. I gave him the information. He showed little interest in the persons leaving. However, he seemed extremely interested in the description of the Rambler. This was the only part of my statement which he wrote down in his little pad he was holding. Point: Mrs. Ruth Paine, the woman Marina Oswald lived with in Irving, Texas, owned a Rambler station wagon, at that time, of this same color.

I learned nothing of this "Secret Service Agent's" identity until December 22, 1967 while we were living in New Orleans. The television was on as I came home from work one night and there on the screen was a picture of this man. I did not know what it was all about until my wife told me that Jim Garrison had charged him with being a part of the assassination plot. I called Jim Garrison then and told him that this was the man I had seen in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Jim then sent one of his investigators to see me with a better picture which I identified. I then learned that this man's name was Edgar Eugene Bradley."

Peter,

Edgar Eugene Bradley was on a commercial airliner at the time of the assassination.

An associate of Rev. Carl MacIntyre, some say Jim Garrison mistook Edgar Eugene Bradley for Eugene Hale Brading (aka Jim Braden), who was taken into custody as a suspicous person at Dealey Plaza.

BK

Could a JIm Braden a.k.a. possibly be James Branum?

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  • 11 months later...
Karyn Kupcinet is another whose death has been linked to the Kennedy assassination. I am not convinced but it is an interesting story.

Irv Kupcinet was a well-known journalist and television talk show host. He knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones (Forgive My Grief, 1966) Kupcinet kept in contact with Ruby and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. Jones argues that Kupcinet passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a strong link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Irv Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkupcinet.htm

Karyn Kupcinet

If you would like to see Karyn Kupcinet, she's on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enoyNF5c-iA

She is in the audience with Steve Allen. It's the Jerry Lewis Show Premiere Pt 2, 1963. She appears at 6:42 in the video. The whole video is about 11 minutes.

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  • 5 months later...

Dorothy Kilgallen, a crime reporter of the New York Journal, obtained a private interview with Jack Ruby. She told friends that she had information that would "break the case wide open". Aware of what had happened to Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe, she handed her interview notes to her friend Margaret Smith. On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead. It was reported she had committed suicide. Her friend, Margaret Smith, died two days later.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKdeaths.htm

I did not know this, John. Who is Margaret Smith?

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  • 1 month later...

This, is obviously not the perfect place to post this, but I hope John and everyone else, might cut me some slack.

I discovered that, according to a book three persons affiliated, to some degree, with British intelligence died in 1963.

I do not know enough about these individuals to even suggest there was anything suspicious about their deaths, I just found it odd

that they died within a short period of one another, if Tom Bower's information is correct.

They were:

Paul Rosbaud died in January 1963.

Count Frederick van den Heuvel died in April 1963

Sir Charles Hasbro August 1963

The source was a footnote in

MI-6 Inside the Secret World of Her Majesty’s Secret Intelligence Service - Stephen Dorril

Until the mid-fifties, Paul Rosbaud and Robert Maxwell remained close. Rosbaud died in January 1963, the Dutchman, [Count Frederick] van den Heuvel died in April 1963, aged seventy-eight.

....It seems as he lay dying, in August 1963, Hasbro ordered his secretary to burn all his secret papers. Sir Charles Hasbro was joint head with the former chiefs of the BSC

Sir William Stephenson, and the OSS’s “Bill” Donovan, of the World Commerce Corp (WCC). Set up in 1946, the Panama-based WCC was set up as a ‘bridge

over the breakdown in foreign exchange and provide the tools, machinery and “know-how” to develop untapped resources in different parts of the world, particularly

in re-equipping German industrial plant.’ [sic] A director claimed that if there had been several WCC’s the Marshall plan would be no need for a Marshall Plan.......

Footnote 27 Kay Jones p 133, information from Diamond Bristow; [Robert] Maxwell The Final Verdict - Tom Bower pages 170-74

To those familiar with the Tyrall compound [John Connally Paul Raigorodsky] and British aspects of that period, ie the Project Skybolt controversy between JFK and Britain, David Ormsby Gore's relationship with JFK; this might be interesting in lieu of what is even, factually known about the World Commerce Corporation.

And yes, I do believe that is the publisher Robert Maxwell.

More can be found here.

The company Pergemon Press also fits in here, and I am sure either Paul Rosbaud or Count Van den Heuvel had a relationship with SIS.

Spy left out in the Cold: How MI-6 buried heroic exploits of agent ‘Griffin.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/sep/22/secondworldwar.past

http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?_MAXWELL_ROBERT_%28PUBLISHER%29

Allegation?

The genesis of the munitions cartels is found in the following quotations from H. Montgomery Hyde's book, Room 3603. Hyde's book is a biography of the experience of Sir William Stephenson during and after World War II. Stephenson was head of British Intelligence in the United States during World War II. Here is what Hyde had to say: (In 1946) Stephenson had gone to live in Jamaica, where he had bought a property at Hillowton, overlooking Montego Bay - "the finest house in the island," he called it. (Incidentally, it was his wife's choice). His example was followed by several of his friends, including Lord Beaverbrook, Sir William Wiseman, Noel Coward and Ian Fleming, all of whom acquired estates on Jamaica's beautiful north shore at this time.

For a year or so he showed little interest in the outside world and was content to enjoy life on this island in the sun. Only gradually did he recover his interest in commerce and industry. With some of his war-time associates, such as financiers Sir Rex Benson and Sir Charles Hambro in London, General Donovan in Washington, and a number of Canadian and American industrialists like Edward Stettinius, former chairman of the U.S. Steel Corporation, he formed the British-American-Canadian Corporation, which developed into the World Commerce Corporation, originally designed to fill the void left by the break-up of the big German cartels which Stephenson himself had done much to destroy. Thus he and his colleagues on the board raised an initial $1,000,000 to help 'bridge over the breakdown in foreign exchange and provide the tools, machinery and "know how" to develop untapped resources in different parts of the world'."

The World Commerce Corporation also played a useful part in the development and rehabilitation of economically backward countries. As one American newspaper editorial put it at the time, "if there were several World Commerce Corporations, there would be no need for a Marshall Plan". Barter trade was facilitated on a massive scale. A typical transaction took place in the Balkans in 1951. Yugoslavia and Bulgaria were short of dollars and also short of medicinal drugs. But each country had about $300,000 worth of paprika on its farms. World Commerce accordingly exchanged a year's supply of penicillin and sulfa for the paprika, which they then sold on other markets. While normally working on a commission basis, the Corporation would sometimes forgo its profit if it felt it could help an impoverished or economically backward country by giving it the facilities of its international connections."

The North Jamaican Hillowton property was later transformed to Tryall, the exclusive club of John Connally, Paul Raigorodsky and many others of the cabal. World Commerce Corporation received funds from the U.S. International Cooperation Agency and worked closely with Clay Shaw's World Trade Development Commission and Permindex's various World Trade Centers. George DeMohrenschildt, William Dalzell and a number of the White Russians had worked for I.C.A. for a number of years. This increased DeMohrenschildt's knowledge of the subject of who was behind the conspiracy. Albert Osborne and Gordon Novel had been reported at Tryall, Jamaica on a number of occasions.

http://scribblguy.50megs.com/torbitt901.htm

Any help or information is appreciated.

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Guest Tom Scully

Peter, John was referring to Florence Pritchett Smith, wife of Kennedy family W. Palm Beach neighbor, and former U.S. Ambassador to Cuba, Earl ET Smith.

Mrs. Earl ET Smith, 45, Dies; Columnist and Wife of Ex. Envoy; I ...

- New York Times - Nov 11, 1965

Mrs. Smith, who wrote under] her maiden name, Florence l Pritchett, had been in ill since mid-August. She had re-I been discharged from Roosevelt Hospital. ...

Ex-cuba Aide's Wife Is Dead . - Miami News - Google News Archive

Pritchett Smith, former model and fashion editor of the Journal American, was supposedly THE love of young JFK's life.

Robert, you posted on "The Paines" thread, after I posted this, but perhaps the info in my post did not catch your eye or wasn't relevant to the discussion that followed it. Anyway, I thought it was odd that A. Pollard Simons bailed out Milton Prell and then became so close to John Connally. "Simon" or Simons was the principal Tyrall stockholder by 1972, when it was reported that Connally was cut in to that community.:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=jamaica+simon+connally&btnG=Search+Archives&hl=en&ned=us&scoring=a

Connolly Plans Cattle Business In Jamaica .

Miami News - Google News Archive - Jan 4, 1973

John Connally, former US Treasury secretary, along with two other American ... start a cattle operation in Jamaica. business associates are Pollard Simon, ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=Pollard%20Simon%20mint&hl=en&ned=us&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=np

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Milton Prell, who had operated the successful 30-Club in Butte, Montana, during the war, was also a founding partner of the Mint Hotel (1957) downtown. By 1950, the Club Bingo had gone nearly bankrupt when Houston financier A. Pollard Simon (a ...

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=%22on+30+december+1965%2C+there+was+an+internal+c.i%2Ca++request%3A&btnG=Search+Books

David G. Schwartz - 2006 - 570 pages - Snippet view

Corporate involvement on the Strip began in 1951, when principals of the Del E. Webb Corporation, one of the nation's leading builders and the owner of the New York Yankees (a team fittingly started by gamblers), helped Milton Prell ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Technically, a group of investors (including alleged Oregon gamblers Al Winter and Milton Hyatt, plus Bobby Morris, Sam Rubin, ... In a master stroke, Prell enticed Del Webb, the Phoenix contractor who earlier had built the Flamingo, ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Vegas at Odds: Labor Conflict in a Leisure Economy, 1960-1985 - Page 215

James P. Kraft - 2009 - 273 pages - Preview

Webb's associates included LC Jacobson, Milton Prell, and Alfred Winter, who owned the entity that operated the Sahara and the Mint. See Alexander, “What Del Webb Is Up To,” 186. See also Wall Street Journal, May 23, 1969; and Schwartz,

http://books.google.com/books?id=gSsEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA47&dq=simons+reportedly+donated+the+highest+hill&hl=en&ei=n2i5TIq6JIL6lwfH1oXqDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=simons%20reportedly%20donated%20the%20highest%20hill&f=false

Texas Monthly - Sep 1973 - Page 47

Vol. 1, No. 8 - 96 pages - Magazine - Full view

The sprawling house sits atop a hill where Connally can survey almost every acre of his land. ... Connally fell in love with the lush and verdant scenery, and Simons reportedly donated the highest hill as the site for the Connallys to build on...

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Another important witness to die during the aftermath of the assassination was Earlene Roberts. On 14th October, Roberts rented a room to Lee Harvey Oswald.

Roberts testified before the Warren Commission that Oswald arrived home at around 1.00 p.m. on 22nd November, 1963. He stayed only a few minutes but while he was in the house a Dallas Police Department car parked in front of the house. In the car were two uniformed policemen. Roberts described how the driver sounded the horn twice before driving off. Soon afterwards Oswald left the house.

Roberts also testified that she thought the police car's number was 106. Some researchers have suggested that it might have been the car being driven by J. D. Tippit (number 10). However, the Dallas Police denied they had any cars in that area at 1.00 p.m. on 22nd November.

In an article published in Ramparts, David Welsh claims that Roberts was subjected to intensive police harassment. "They visited her at all hours of the day and night, contacted her employers and identified her as the Oswald rooming house lady. As a result she was dismissed from three housekeeping and nursing jobs in April, May and June of 1964 alone; no telling how many jobs she lost after that."

Earlene Roberts died of a heart attack in Parkland Hospital on 9th January, 1966.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKrobertsE2.htm

So many people that were unfortunate enough to have something to do with this.

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Came across an interesting new blog about Karyn Kupcinet that might be worth keeping an eye on.

http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/

Some people know that I, Kathleen Collins, wrote that website. Recently, I made a mistake with the template, so I don't think you'll see thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com for some time. I do have the posts. Right now I have a new blog called whatpricefame.blogspot.com. It is not too controversial and I'm accepting ads, but I think the layout is nice. It's about old movie stars, etc.

At one time blogspot sent me a note that they were investigating my blog (cloak of darkness...) for hate messages. I told them everything I wrote there, regarding the subject, came from newspaper accounts on the Internet: Catholic priests molesting little kids. I was taking it verbatim from news sources. I guess that satisfied them.

It is possible that Karyn was killed to shock Chicago and get Ruby and the Chicago Mob out of the papers. Later, Frank Sinatra Jr was kidnapped for ransom. Who helped the most to get Kennedy elected? Frank Sr. I guess they were throwing a scare into him, but it riveted the nation. And then the Beatles came over...

Kathy C

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http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/

Sunday, December 11, 2005

Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal

The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3

John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.

Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.

LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.

LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.

People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.

Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.

I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?

She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.

After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.

Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?

Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.

She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?

I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.

I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.

My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.

It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.

In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?

It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.

I am the author of the above blog about Karyn Kupcinet. The one thing I found wrong in it is that Karyn Kupcinet and Mary Jo Kopechne went to Wellesley. Karyn stayed in school for a semester in a college inside the city of Wellesley. Karyn and her mother would let people think she attended Wellesley. Mary Jo went to and graduated from Caldwell College for Women in New Jersey. Mary Jo and Karyn never met and never knew each other. Karyn never attended those parties.

Kathy C

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http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/

Sunday, December 11, 2005

Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal

The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3

John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.

Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.

LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.

LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.

People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.

Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.

I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?

She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.

After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.

Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?

Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.

She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?

I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.

I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.

My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.

It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.

In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?

It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.

http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/

Sunday, December 11, 2005

Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal

The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3

John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.

Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.

LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.

LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.

People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.

Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.

I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?

She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.

After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.

Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?

Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.

She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?

I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.

I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.

My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.

It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.

In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?

It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.

I am the author of the above blog about Karyn Kupcinet. The one thing I found wrong in it is that Karyn Kupcinet and Mary Jo Kopechne went to Wellesley. Karyn stayed in school for a semester in a college inside the city of Wellesley. Karyn and her mother would let people think she attended Wellesley. Mary Jo went to and graduated from Caldwell College for Women in New Jersey. Mary Jo and Karyn never met and never knew each other. Karyn never attended those parties.

Kathy C

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Of course some people believe that the death of Karyn Kupcinet was related to the JFK case. I discovered this post on a conspiracy-related website called thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com (it is not clear who is behind the blog or who posted this but there is now also a web-site dedicated to Kupcinet:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Karyn_Kupcinet/

The website states there is a book being written on her life, a collaboration between her niece Karu and a writer named Paul Fecteau. They have a website: www.research@paulfecteau.com

Re Mr. Fecteau:

http://www.washburn.edu/faculty/pfecteau/biography.htm

John might want to ask him if he or Kari think her death was in fact related to the JFK case.

****************************************************************************

Karyn Kupcinet, Stage Name "Tammy Windsor"

Last night I was watching a Hawaiian Eye episode. I recognized Karyn Kupcinet and I thought she was not listed in the credits. I've had this episode for a few years. At the end, I noticed a number of credits. But why not her? I looked at the credits and found "The Clerk," which would describe the role Karyn had in this show. How I knew it was her was I'm looking at this girl and I start to see the mouth, the nose, the cheekbones of -- Irv Kupcinet! "The Clerk" was played by Tammy Windsor. Well this was a pseudonym I didn't know about. She is listed in IMDB and TV-Tome. But in most of the shows, I think she was known as Karyn Kupcinet. Not an easy name. There was a gossip columnist in Hollywood who kept begging her to change her name as people couldn't pronounce it. (Except in Chicago) People would pronounce the name as Ka-reen Kup-cin-ay. The name "Karyn" was another selection of hers. She was born as Roberta Lynn Kupcinet. They were having a hard time with her name. The parents were calling her Bobbe Lynn. Finally, Karyn was at some children's party and she came over to her parents and said, "This cookie is from your cookie." And so she was called Cookie. I don't know how old she was when her name first changed. I recall reading an old copy of Who's Who in the Midwest. Irv was listed, as was Essee, his wife, Jerry, his son and Cookie (deceased).

Biographers all thought she only appeared in one film, Jerry Lewis' The Ladies Man. I found out she appeared in the 1960 version of the film The Little Shop of Horrors. I think she plays "The Teenager," unless I'm thinking of one of her TV shows. Jack Nicholson is in the movie and I think it's a cult film. They're selling it on Amazon.com for $0.01 and shipping is $2.98. Just make sure which version you're getting. There was a Broadway version, etc.

I just came across this post, which is mine. Karyn Kupcinet and Tammy Windsor are 2 different people. Karyn was on a Hawaiian Eye episode but wasn't credited, which is surprising as she had a bigger role than Tammy Windsor who played The Clerk. IMDB made the same mistake I did. I've been trying to resolve it since I found out I'd made an error.

Kathy C

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A Correction to the earlier post, I made

The persons who died in 1963 were:

Paul Rosbaud....January

Sir Frederick van der Heuven.....April

Sir Charles Hambro head of MI-6.....August

In June Field Marshall Alan Francis Brooke, 79 aka First Viscount Alanbrooke, Britain's Chief of the Imperial General Staff in World War II, died on June 17, 1963

Hambro was truly someone who walked through the raindrops, the world he lived in encompassed everything from

SOE connections, the Manhattan project, doubtlessly the Profumo Affair, which ultimately toppled the liberal government

of Harold MacMillan, to peripheral links to the ALSOS Mission and Boris Pash, who "retired" from "active" service in July 1963.

also see

http://alsos.wlu.edu/qsearch.aspx?browse=people/Heisenberg,+Werner

When Boris Pash testified about E Howard Hunt's accusation that the old colonel ran an assassination unit, Pash

denied it and went to great lengths to do so, whether Pash was telling the truth or not, the story was that the person

who was considered a "double agent" in need of liquidation, according to Hunt, anyway was an Albanian......

Pash denied every thing that could be denied about Hunt's allegations. When one is left wondering

who to believe between two spooks like Bash and Hunt, the money says, the truth may be difficult to come by.

It is also my understanding the following article is hard to find.....

Hunt Says CIA Had Murder Unit

By John Crewdson

E. Howard Hunt, Jr., the former Central Intelligence Agency officer

who was convicted of helping carry out the 1972 Watergate break-in

says he was told in the mid-1950's that the CIA had a small unit set up

to arrange for the assassination of suspected double agents and

similar low-ranking officials.

In a recent interview at the federal correctional institution at the

Elgin Air Force Base in Florida, where he is serving an 8-year sentence

for his role in the Watergate conspiracy, Hunt said he recalled

having been told by CIA superiors in 1954 or 1955 that Boris T Pash,

an agency official, was in charge of the assassination unit.

A CIA spokesman declined comment when asked whether Pash had ever

been employed by the agency or what his capacity there might have been.

The Army's register of retired officers shows however, that Pash left the

service with an undescribed "permanent disability," in November, 1957,

about two years after Hunt said he first met the colonel.

In the interview, Hunt said that during the period in question

he was a staff officer assigned to the Balkans division, and that on one

occasion he and his colleagues had encountered "very substantial

problems" with an organization the agency was "maintaining in

West Germany."

The difficulty, Hunt said concerned a person in the organization, an

Albanian, "who probably was a penetration," the CIA term for

an agent discovered to be working for a hostile intelligence service.

Hunt said that it was decided to "neutralize" the man "in such a way

that the other side would not know that we were aware of his activities,

and, of course, assassination was the obvious answer."

Hunt said that he inquired about arranging for such an assassination

and "I was told that we had that capability," and "that the guy to see

about this sort of thing was Col. Pash."

After having been directed by his superiors to Pash's office, Hunt

recalled, "I talked to Boris and I said, "Look, we have this problem

here, is it something you guys can handle,"

Pash replied that he was not sure, Hunt said, and seemed to react

with a "sort of shock that the subject had even been brought up."

Hunt, consequently said he left the matter there, and never inquired

afterward about what fate, if any, had befallen the suspected agent.

It is rather strange, but one of the most infamous World War II spy stories concerned a topic that was

also about an Albanian who was providing the German Abwehr with stolen British documents, which, at first

were actually authentic, but after some damage had been done "CICERO" helped the British provide false

documents which somewhat exonerated him.

I only mention the CICERO case as a coincidence, in that he was also an Albanian,

The incident was made into a movie called Five Fingers with the British actor James Mason

Dallas Morning News March 18, 1952 Palace Film Treats Spy Better than Real Life

Cicero, the valet-spy whose espionage activities in Turkey have been dramatized by Twentieth Century Fox in the picture “Five Fingers”apparently never had it so good as in the picture. In the film, which is dated for the Palace starting March 27, starring James Mason as Cicero escapes to Rio de Janeiro.

But in real-life, according to Variety, who got their info from diplomatic sources just returned from Paris and Lisbon, the real Cicero, a gent by the name of Eleysa, is at present languishing in a Turkish bastille. It seems he has a melodious baritone, and despite warnings from the Turks that he would be nabbed if he ventured into society, he gave a concert. Business was good— 2,000 Turkish lira, or $714— until the local cops swooped down and grabbing the gate receipts and the soloist, who is still in the Istanbul high five on last reports.

See observer UK

Secret plot to catch out Nazi spy

Details of a failed plot to trap a Nazi spy without the knowledge of Britain's war leaders have been released. Civil servants suspected the identity of the agent, codenamed Cicero, and feared he would wreck plans for D-Day. The spy was a valet to a British ambassador in Turkey and sold copies of his employer's secret papers.

National Archive documents say a fake Cabinet Office paper was planted at the embassy in the hope Cicero

would photograph it and give himself away.

Bath

Cicero - a Turk later exposed as Ilyas Bazna - worked for Sir Hughe Knatchbull-Hugessen, the British ambassador to Ankara.

He was not caught in the January 1944 sting and his story - which became the subject of the James Mason film Five Fingers - was not revealed until after the war.

The documents reveal how Sir Hughes would leave sensitive papers in a red box while he took a bath.

Cicero would use the ambassador's key to open the lock before photographing papers and selling them to the Germans.

Operation Overlord

It was one of the enemy's biggest spying coups of World War II and could have threatened the security of Operation Overlord, the Allied landings in Normandy.

The records reveal civil servants in the Foreign Office suspected Cicero's identity and planted the document, entitled Peace Feelers from Bulgaria, without telling the war cabinet.

Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden was not told and his signature was forged by his private secretary.The records, available to the public in Kew, London, state Cicero was paid up to £88,000 by Germany for copies of documents.

Robert: Decades ago the name was spelled Eleyas Bazna

It is also interesting that Frank Sturgis seemed to be threatening to go public at one time with Albanian cryptographic documents, around the time I believe, he was alleged to have been bugging the Washington office of Senator Howard Baker.

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents -

Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 16/

NARA Record Number: 104-10073-10368

ALBANIAN CRYPTOGRAPHIC MATERIAL

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=40635

There are also other maddening items such as:

Dallas Morning News

April 22, 1944

Rubber Director Will Visit Dallas

Bradley Dewey, National Rubber Director, will visit Dallas next Wednesday en route to inspect Texas synthetic rubber

plants and will be joined here by Sir Charles Hambro, head of the British Raw Materials Mission and Thomas H. Brand

executive officer of the British production and resources board.

Dewey, coming here from California, will be accompanied by Dr. E. R. Gililand, assistant rubber director; H. Leroy

Whitney, technical adviser to Donald M. Nelson, chairman of the War Production Board; John Caswell, special assistant

to Dewey and Hugh S. Ferguson and John A. Lunn, Office of Rubber Director consultants.

The party will go from Dallas to Houston, Port Neches and Lake Charles, La., to inspect plants

Documents relating to Lucius Conein mention Sir Charles Hambro

FILE:CONEIN,L. DOCS #337

http://www.maryferre...1&relPageId=234

On a final note, one might recall the publishing company Pergamon.

It is hard to mention Pergamon without thinking of publishing magnate Robert Maxwell - Ján Ludvík Hoch

Without going the controversy surrounding his death, I will cite the following about Maxwell.

Maxwell joined the British Army Pioneer Corps in 1941 and transferred to the North Staffordshire Regiment in 1943. He was involved in action across Europe from Normandy beaches to Berlin, ranked sergeant. He gained a commission in 1945 and was promoted to captain. In January 1945 he received the Military Cross. It was during this time that British Intelligence allegedly changed his name several times, finally settling on Ian Robert Maxwell

In 1945, Maxwell married Elisabeth "Betty" Meynard, a French Protestant with whom he had nine children with the goal of "recreating the family he lost in the Holocaust". Five of his children were employed within his companies. Two met with tragedy, three-year old daughter Karine died of leukemia; and eldest son Michael was severely injured after being driven home from a post-Christmas party in 1961 when his driver fell asleep at the wheel. Michael never regained consciousness and died seven years later.

At the end of World War II, Maxwell first worked as a newspaper censor for the British military command in Berlin in Allied-occupied Germany. Later, he used various contacts in the Allied occupation authorities to go into business, becoming the British and United States distributor for Springer Verlag, a publisher of scientific books. In 1951 he bought three quarters of Butterworth-Springer, a minor publisher; the other one quarter was held by the experienced scientific editor Paul Rosbaud. They changed the name of the company to Pergamon Press and rapidly built it into a major publishing house.

In 1964 he was elected to the House of Commons for the Labour Party, and was MP for Buckingham. In 1970 he lost to the Conservative William Benyon.

If you will, notice the connection between Maxwell and Paul Rosbaud, and that fact that Rosbaud was mention in the first paragraph, who died in 1963.

On the thread Was Boris Pash at Parkland Hospital, the name Marinus "Gus" Toepel was mentioned as well, according to the following......

Marinus G. Toepel

Born in Sheboygan, Wisconsin, on November 11, 1905, Gus Toepel received a B.A. from the University of Wisconsin in 1927 and an M.A. in political science in 1936. After teaching high school for a short time, he worked as a research assistant at the University of Texas and field investigator and senior rating board examiner for the U.S. Civil Service Commission.

Toepel served in military intelligence in the U.S. Army during World War II and became educational coordinator for the Wisconsin Taxpayers Alliance after the war. He later was expeditor for the UW-Extension Center at Racine and the first director of the Green Bay Extension Center. From 1947 to 1949, Toepel served as executive secretary of the Wisconsin Education Commission. He directed the UW-Extension Division's Bureau of Government until he was appointed chief of the LRB in June 1950. He remained at this post until his death on July 12, 1963, in Madison. During his tenure as chief, Toepel emphasized legislative research and began publishing LRB research in a series of bulletins.

http://www.legis.sta...iefs/toepel.htm

Robert: I promise if you read everything that is posted here, there are linkages, you just have to really pay attention.

Last

San Francisco Chronicle (CA) - May 13, 1995

Deceased Name: Colonel Boris T. Pash

A funeral will be held Monday for retired Army Colonel Boris T. Pash.

Colonel Pash, who died Thursday in Greenbrae at age 94, was director of security in the American atomic bomb project during World War II. He was also the lead officer in the Alsos Mission, which scoured Europe searching for German nuclear scientists.

He was born in San Francisco, and was called to active duty in the Army in 1938, assigned to Ninth Corps headquarters at the Presidio as chief of counterintelligence.

With the outbreak of World War II, Colonel Pash investigated security breaches at the University of California at Berkeley Radiation Laboratory involving personnel for the Manhattan Engineer District project, which produced the first nuclear bomb.

His findings on J. Robert Oppenheimer and other members of the Rad Lab staff have recently been discussed anew by historians.

In September 1943, he was sent to Washington for new orders. In cooperation with General Leslie R. Groves, head of the Manhattan Project, he organized the Alsos Mission, charged with finding out how much progress the Nazi regime had made in developing atomic and bacteriological weapons.

The mission landed in Italy and proceeded to Rome in the vanguard of Allied troops, located several physicists, and then went via England to France after D-Day in June 1944, again accompanying forward units.

The main Allied forces had been held back to allow French troops to liberate Paris, but Colonel Pash and his group rushed into the city where they were the first American troops to arrive. They liberated the world-famous Curie Institute of physical research and seized 18 tons of uranium ore amassed by the Nazis in France. They also took over a primitive reactor that had been built in Germany.

Colonel Pash summarized the mission's history in a published book, ''The Alsos Mission.''

After the war he served as chief of the foreign service section in General Douglas MacArthur's Japanese occupation headquarters, then worked under the Secretary of Defense in Washington.

He was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal, among other decorations, and was inducted into the Army's Military Intelligence Hall of Fame in 1988.

He is survived by his wife, Gladys, and son Edgar, of Madera. A funeral will be held Monday at 11 a.m. at Keaton's Mortuary in San Rafael, with interment at the Serbian Cemetery in Colma.

Contributions are requested for the American Cancer Society.

One last item, according to Inside the Company, Philip Agee, page 363 SMOTH was the cryptonym for MI-6

The document below, seems to corroborate his information.

NARA Record Number: 104-10167-10351

TWICKER CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE AMICAR MEMBERS NAMED BY SMOTH WERE NOT LIVING IN SAME HOUSE MEXI

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=36411

Edited by Robert Howard
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  • 5 weeks later...

Another example includes the death of William Pitzer.

Pitzer was Chief of the Educational Television Division of the Naval Medical School. Promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Commander, he was given a senior position at Bethesda Naval Hospital, Maryland.

In May 1995, ex-Special Forces Colonel Daniel Marvin claimed to have been solicited by an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency to "terminate" William Pitzer. An interview with Mavin later appeared in the sixth episode of the television series The Men Who Killed Kennedy (November, 1995).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKpitzerW.htm

Dan Marvin states in The Men Who Killed Kennedy;

“It had to be in the best interests of the United States government that Kennedy was killed, otherwise , why would our own people be involved. “ He also talks about,

Guerrilla warfare training Classic example of a program of the way to organize a complete program to eliminate a nation’s leader while pointing the finger at a lone assassin.

Mock layouts, films and photos showing Oswald was not involved.

“CIA was involved /overheard things went well in Dealy”

One instructor may have been involved himself in the assassination.

Edited by Peter McGuire
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Karyn Kupcinet is another whose death has been linked to the Kennedy assassination. I am not convinced but it is an interesting story.

Irv Kupcinet was a well-known journalist and television talk show host. He knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones (Forgive My Grief, 1966) Kupcinet kept in contact with Ruby and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. Jones argues that Kupcinet passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a strong link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Irv Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkupcinet.htm

Karyn Kupcinet

If you would like to see Karyn Kupcinet, she's on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enoyNF5c-iA

She is in the audience with Steve Allen. It's the Jerry Lewis Show Premiere Pt 2, 1963. She appears at 6:42 in the video. The whole video is about 11 minutes.

There is a scene with Karyn Kupcinet acting in Jerry Lewis' movie Ladies Man. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jerry+Lewis+Ladies+Man&aq=f

She came from Chicago and looks healthy in this movie. She was anorexic. Her death remains a mystery. Even Dr. Cyril Wecht can't call it. The girl had no luck.

Kathy C

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