Bush-Ports and Operation Underworld (1941-43)

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

The breaking story about Bush and the sale of the U.S ports to foreign companies based in the Middle East brings to mind Operation Underworld. In 1941, the OSS had grown concerned that pro-German spies had penetrated the the docks of New York and New Jersey. As most on this forum know, this motivated the OSS to form a relationship with Lucky Luciano to use the NY mafia-- which was already being used on the docks to control the direction of union activites-- to sniff out pro-German spies.

Many researchers have seen Operation Underworld as the beginning of an ongoing relationship with the OSS

and later CIA with Organized Crime. Most would agree that this marriage was used again in the Kennedy Assassination.

I think this history can, to some extent, inform pubic debate on the Bush Adminstration port sales. If we make this connection on our local newspaper's internet forums, we can also refer readers to threads on this sight for further reading.

I am typing this not merely to be topical, but because I see this as a potential access point for more general readers to discover some of the excellent research on this site. I think we need to use history, not make of it a trivial persuit! Part of this, would involve expanding the readership of this site.

Any ideas about which particular threads that could be referenced?

[Tim Gratz]

Nate wrote:

Many researchers have seen Operation Underworld as the beginning of an ongoing relationship with the OSS and later CIA with Organized Crime. Most would agree that this marriage was used again in the Kennedy Assassination

Well Nate I beg to differ. There is no evidence--none-linking the CIA to the assassination.

[Dawn Meredith]

Nate wrote:

Many researchers have seen Operation Underworld as the beginning of an ongoing relationship with the OSS and later CIA with Organized Crime. Most would agree that this marriage was used again in the Kennedy Assassination

Well Nate I beg to differ. There is no evidence--none-linking the CIA to the assassination.

Tim:

Sometimes it seems that your brain does not work the same way other people's works; like you are from another planet or something. NO EVIDNECE? I guess about the only thing that would satisify you is a video of say Angleton with a gun behind the fence. Or a deathbed confession from Dulles.

I do not think I have ever encountered anyone before who has actually read as much on this case as you and draws such different conclusions. Brings to mind the words from the song "The Boxer" byPaul Simon

"simply hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

Dawn

[Tim Gratz]

Well, Dawn, please enlighten me.

What evidence is there that inculpates the CIA?

Please cite evidence that would get you by a directed verdict in any criminal court in the US.

Robert Charles-Dunne suggests that since the CIA entered into a partnership with the mafia to kill Castro, perhaps the partners instead turned their guns on JFK. But that is rank speculation. That the CIA undertook to kill foreign leaders, perhaps with the explicit or implicit endorsement of a president (or two) is clearly insufficient to conclude the CIA would decide to kill the POTUS, in an act that would constitute both treason and murder in the United States.

I think the ONLY piece of evidence that exists to possibly implicate ANY CIA agent is the alleged drunken confession of Morales that could only be braggadocia. If you want to say that confession would be sufficient to convict Morales, that is as far as you can get, IMO.

If you or anyone else has any other evidence, I would be delighted to read it.

(Best wishes to you, though, Dawn.)

Edited February 23, 2006 by Tim Gratz

[Gary Buell]

Well, Dawn, please enlighten me.

What evidence is there that inculpates the CIA?

Please cite evidence that would get you by a directed verdict in any criminal court in the US.

Robert Charles-Dunne suggests that since the CIA entered into a partnership with the mafia to kill Castro, perhaps the partners instead turned their guns on JFK. But that is rank speculation. That the CIA undertook to kill foreign leaders, perhaps with the explicit or implicit endorsement of a president (or two) is clearly insufficient to conclude the CIA would decide to kill the POTUS, in an act that would constitute both treason and murder in the United States.

I think the ONLY piece of evidence that exists to possibly implicate ANY CIA agent is the alleged drunken confession of Morales that could only be braggadocia. If you want to say that confession would be sufficient to convict Morales, that is as far as you can get, IMO.

If you or anyone else has any other evidence, I would be delighted to read it.

(Best wishes to you, though, Dawn.)

Big difference between "no evidence" and no evidence that would be sufficient to obtain a "directed verdict in any criminal court in the US" isn't there Tim? If you are looking for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt you have a point. No evidence by that standard linking Castro to the assassination either, is there?

[Norman T. Field]

Nate wrote:

Many researchers have seen Operation Underworld as the beginning of an ongoing relationship with the OSS and later CIA with Organized Crime. Most would agree that this marriage was used again in the Kennedy Assassination

Well Nate I beg to differ. There is no evidence--none-linking the CIA to the assassination.

Indeed, what about Richard Case Nagell?