Rock Hudson Cover Up, etc.

[Stephen Roy]

Plenty of things are still unresolved... Pearl Harbor. The Liberty Incident. The Mary Celeste...

I though Straight outed Maclean.

A number of books indicate that the first lead to Maclean came when Venona revealed a source named "Homer", and susbsequent investigation focused suspicion on Maclean, who shortly fled the UK. I think Straight did finger him at one point, but the initial lead came from Venona.

[James Richards]

Yep sorry, but happy valley sunday was still a great song. (Stephen Turner)

Steve,

Did you mean 'Pleasant Valley Sunday'? A great Carole King song.

James

[Pat Speer]

Yep sorry, but happy valley sunday was still a great song. (Stephen Turner)

Steve,

Did you mean 'Pleasant Valley Sunday'? A great Carole King song.

James

Okay, enough of this Monkee bashing. While it is true the Monkees became a band for a TV show, it's also true that a number of great musicians tried out for the show, including Steve Stills. Ultimately, the show's producers opted to go with two musicians--Michael Nesmith and Peter Tork--and two actors, Mickey Dolenz and and Davey Jones. Dolenz and Jones did their own singing, however. After the show and the band became successful, the boys opted to throw their weight around and gain control of their careers as well. Mike Nesmith began writing more and more of the band's material--Last Train to Clarksville is a classic*--and the band began indulging in crazy 60's behavior--such as playing their own instruments...they even booked Hendrix as an opening act. Eventually, Don Kirshner pulled the plug on the band so he could gain TOTAL control of a band, and was successful. I believe his next big band was The Archies.

If you don't believe The Monkees have any credibility you should check out their genuinely freaky send-up of Beatles movies, Head.

*As James points out below, Last Train to Clarksville was NOT written by Nesmith. I knew he'd written a big hit classic record. It turns out it wasn't even a Monkees record. It was Different Drum by Linda Ronstadt and The Stone Ponys.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Pat Speer

[James Richards]

Pat,

'Last Train To Clarksville' was a classic Boyce and Hart song; writers who penned many of The Monkees' hits. The Monkees concept also allowed the emergence of another great writer, Neil Diamond with 'I'm A Believer'. David Gates and Carole King were others to get a foothold in the industry.

Nesmith's 'Listen To The Band' is one of the great songs from the 1960's.

James

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

Boyce and Hart had a storng sense of the eternal. Thier song Wonder What She's Doing Tonight represents the eternal carved in bubble-gum (its only true medium).

Sorry. My next post will be a windy curiosity about the JCS.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

James, yes of course I mean PLEASANT Valley Sunday, "Here In status symbol land" Funny I was only listening to the song a few weeks back. What tricks the 50 year old mind plays..

[Christopher T. George]

Wasn't it recently discovered that Napoleon was poisoned? Remember that history is written by the victors (and the killers). On the way to and from Dallas in November, I stopped off in National Parks. At Carlsbad Caverns I learned that within the last few years scientists have completely changed their minds on what created the caverns. While they used to believe it was an underground river, they now believe it was sulphuric acid. Similarly, at Mesa Verde National Park I found that both the ultimate fate of the cave dwellers there and the reason for their departure has changed in the last ten years. While ten years ago the Park rangers told the tourists that the people were Anasazi, that they created their cliff dwellings for defense purposes, and that they fled after a period of conflict, last year the ranger told us that the people who lived there were the fore-runners of today's Zuni tribe (and not Anasazi--a Navajo word), that they lived in the caves for protection from the elements, and that they moved on to warmer climes when their top soil became depleted. A huge difference. History is a living, breathing, thing.

Hi Pat

In terms of the changing story in regard to who was responsible for the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde, with you hearing two different stories from the National Park Rangers, the older story of ten years ago being that the Anasazi were responsible and the new story that you heard from a ranger in November "that the people who lived there were the fore-runners of today's Zuni tribe (and not Anasazi--a Navajo word)," also the older idea that the cliff dwellers lived there for defensive reasons, and the new story that they created the structures to shelter from the elements, I would suggest that there is not as you put it, "A huge difference" between the stories.

The reason I don't think there is that "big difference" between the stories is that we are dealing with the realm of theories and not facts. Either idea might be true. I wasn't aware though that Mesa Verde was built like a defensive fort-like structure. I have long wanted to go there, and hope to still do so, so you may know more than I do about that possibility. I would also suggest though that, knowing the National Park Service as I do, the "new" NPS ranger story (assuming other rangers are giving out the same "revised" story) might show a bending to political correctness and even to the trend in which current tribes have claimed ownership of artifacts, or making a local tribe feel as if it has an interest in these ancient structures.

Since the study of pre-Columbian peoples is done without any written history, it largely depends on archeology. A lot of theory on pre-Columbian peoples is dependent on current trends in thinking. I took a course in pre-Columbian history in the MLA program at Hopkins and the instructor made the point that there was for a long time a tendency to view many artifacts as being religious... effigies of the gods, etc. The truth is though that we just don't know the function of everything that is discovered. He made the point that a later civilization coming along after ours might, if they found an effigy of Mickey Mouse, assume that Mickey Mouse was a god that we worshipped.

In regard to the possible poisoning of Napoleon, authors Ben Weider and Sten Forshufvud have made a strong case that Napoleon was poisoned by one of the former Emperor's most trusted French aides on St. Helena, Count Charles-Tristan de Montholon. They assert that Montholon was acting under the direction of Louis XVIII's brother, the Count d'Artois (later Charles X), who wanted to make sure that Napoleon would never be able to return to reclaim his throne. At the time of the exiled monarch's death in 1821, the British doctors in attendance claimed that Napoleon died of cancer. It is also clear that it was in the interests of the British to dispose of "Bony" so that he could not effect another escape and return in triumph as he had after his escape from Elba in 1815.

It is evident from the toxicology results that strands of Napoleon's hair, given to Betsy Balcombe in 1818, contained an inordinate amount of arsenic. The hairs were tested by the FBI and showed levels of arsenic that were, in the words of the FBI, "consistent with arsenic poisoning."

Another theory is that Napoleon got arsenic in his system from arsenic-containing wallpaper in the house where he lived on St. Helena. However, it would seem to me that the measurable arsenic discovered in his hair would have been more than the former emperor could have taken in through his pores from just being around arsenic-containing wallpaper.

Chris

Edited March 12, 2006 by Christopher T. George

[Pat Speer]

I wasn't aware though that Mesa Verde was built like a defensive fort-like structure. I have long wanted to go there, and hope to still do so, so you may know more than I do about that possibility. I would also suggest though that, knowing the National Park Service as I do, the "new" NPS ranger story (assuming other rangers are giving out the same "revised" story) might show a bending to political correctness and even to the trend in which current tribes have claimed ownership of artifacts, or making a local tribe feel as if it has an interest in these ancient structures.

Chris

FWIW, the people at Mesa Verde lived on top of the Mesa for almost their entire time there. They only moved into the cliff dwellings for the last 100-200 years. Most of the dwellings were fairly inaccessible. They believe people climbed to the top from Spruce House on a large tree. Similarly, Balcony House had a narrow trail from the top, culminating in a very narrow entrance into the house. This entrance was made progressively smaller, to the point that today you have to crawl on your belly for 10 feet or so just to get into the house. The thinking ten years ago was that the various dwellings were in conflict with one another. The thinking today is that there wasn't war between the people as much as there was a concern for theft. As their soil became depleted, food was harder to come by and the ab ility to protect what food they had became more and more important to the various communities. At least that's what Ranger Duff said.

As far as the different tribes claiming their heritage... As I remember the Zunis have always insisted they were the descendants, and the Navajo have never claimed they were the descendants. Apparently, the word Anasazi in Navajo means "ancient ones" or "enemies of my ancestors." The Navajo have never claimed the Anasazi were their ancestors, even though several Navajo communities were built on the ruins of the "ancient ones".

[Christopher T. George]

I wasn't aware though that Mesa Verde was built like a defensive fort-like structure. I have long wanted to go there, and hope to still do so, so you may know more than I do about that possibility. I would also suggest though that, knowing the National Park Service as I do, the "new" NPS ranger story (assuming other rangers are giving out the same "revised" story) might show a bending to political correctness and even to the trend in which current tribes have claimed ownership of artifacts, or making a local tribe feel as if it has an interest in these ancient structures.

Chris

FWIW, the people at Mesa Verde lived on top of the Mesa for almost their entire time there. They only moved into the cliff dwellings for the last 100-200 years. Most of the dwellings were fairly inaccessible. They believe people climbed to the top from Spruce House on a large tree. Similarly, Balcony House had a narrow trail from the top, culminating in a very narrow entrance into the house. This entrance was made progressively smaller, to the point that today you have to crawl on your belly for 10 feet or so just to get into the house. The thinking ten years ago was that the various dwellings were in conflict with one another. The thinking today is that there wasn't war between the people as much as there was a concern for theft. As their soil became depleted, food was harder to come by and the ab ility to protect what food they had became more and more important to the various communities. At least that's what Ranger Duff said.

As far as the different tribes claiming their heritage... As I remember the Zunis have always insisted they were the descendants, and the Navajo have never claimed they were the descendants. Apparently, the word Anasazi in Navajo means "ancient ones" or "enemies of my ancestors." The Navajo have never claimed the Anasazi were their ancestors, even though several Navajo communities were built on the ruins of the "ancient ones".

Hi Pat

Many thanks for that additional fascinating information about Mesa Verde. I would think it is natural for local indigenous people to believe their ancestors created the cliff dwellings, which is what you say the Zunis claim though the Navajos do not. It would be interesting to know for sure. I wonder if there is any way DNA could help to determine that, if, for example, DNA could be obtained from any bones at Mesa Verde?

Chris