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De Mohrenschildt - did we get the truth?


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The official story regarding George de Mohrenschildt's death is that he placed a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Having seen many shotgun victims over the years, I have to say that what we see below doesn't resemble any of those in the slightest.

I have spoken with Ryan Crowe about this and he agrees. IMO, this looks more like the work of a couple of .22's.

If anyone has a viewpoint here, I would love to hear it.

James

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I have to agree.

Now more than ever I doubt the story we were told.

IMO that is no shotgun wound and moreso for a wound to the mouth/head at slose enough range to be a suicide.

.22s I would find likely too.

I wonder what Mr. Al Carrier would think as I bet he would have more than an opinion as I do.

Jim

See how they lie.

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I have to agree.

Now more than ever I doubt the story we were told.

IMO that is no shotgun wound and moreso for a wound to the mouth/head at slose enough range to be a suicide.

.22s I would find likely too.

I wonder what Mr. Al Carrier would think as I bet he would have more than an opinion as I do.

Jim

See how they lie.

I've seen some photos of him somewhere before, but they were color. Are we even sure this is him?

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According to death investigation report, an autopsy was performed by Palm Beach County medical examiner Dr. Gabino Cuevas, who determined that the only wound was in the left side of the roof of the mouth, with pellets from the shotgun shell traveling upward front to back and right to left.

My natural naivete (I believed the Warren Commission for some 20 years) thus leads me to conclude that it was suicide, or that in any case the wound was inflicted by a shotgun blast in the mouth. The alternative would seem to be either that the death investigation report was falsified, or that Dr. Cuevas could be bought off by government agents who had just murdered someone.

It is also apparent from the report that the posted photo is indeed of De Mohrenschildt:

“After photographs were taken of the body from all directions, the deceased was placed in an upright position for examination of any wounds. Once this was done, writer observed a blackening of both eyes and blood was coming from the mouth, nose, and ear. No signs of injury were noted on the face or head; however, the jaw appeared to be fractured, and the left side of the face was sunken, indicating that the wound was possibly in the mouth.”

http://jfkassassination.net/death2.txt

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Thanks everyone for your responses.

I call tell you that it is definitely the Baron. I have posted some color images in the past.

There is no way his injuries are the result of a point blank shotgun blast. The damage caused would be utter devastation to bone and tissue.

FWIW.

James

Edited by James Richards
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Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

The book is somewhat disorganized and not terribly easy to follow, especially vis-a-vis references and sources. I also don't know anything about the author.

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

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Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • THe White Russian had a healthy appetite for life, his travels around the world during the Cold War were legend, he filmed in the Amazon, walked across the Yucatan........healthy guy, like John Paul I.........
  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • there was no blast when the witness expired
  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • rapping the knuckles
  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • tape reproduction marks
  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • The Baron was weird, but not suicidal in the late 1970s during the House investigation
  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • A 20 gauge shotgun blast at close range should have exit wounds
  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).
    If Tony Curtis married Mary Farrell his son in law would be Will Farrell, says Rip taylor

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • good material
  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

Significant texas dynasty material

Haroldson Hunt and Clint Murchison are in my copy of C Wright Mills "POWER ELITE" from 1956.......

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

Best to all ___

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Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

Coincidences is one way to look at it. Another way is to say that the world was fast closing in on him. Fonzi's calling card that day may have been the last straw.

FWIW Fonzi believes it was suicide.

I go back to the autopsy by Dr. Cuevas. I did a web search to see what I could find out about him. I found nothing that would compare Cuevas to the clown who did the autopsy on Vince Foster without bothering with x-rays (though he initially claimed x-rays were taken) because the machine wasn't working. I found that Cuevas wrote a letter that helped or may help (not clear which) get a man (Paul Scott) released from Death Row for a murder he didn't commit. I also found a post on a forum by a doctor who thinks Cuevas is an American hero. I can't tell for sure if he praises Cuevas so highly because he came in and cleared some medical group of criminality, or whether he came in and covered the criminality up. Here's the post FWIW:

From minarcik at gate.net Wed Oct 3 20:54:56 2001

From: minarcik at gate.net (minarcik)

Date: Wed Feb 2 11:50:05 2005

Subject: PATHO-L Tribute to a living legend!

Message-ID: <3BBBCF7F.86E159F@gate.net>

We have, from time to time, on this forum, given praise to former

colleagues, and people we have known and admired and used as role models

in pathology, most of which were honest gentlemen with integrity. The

older I get, the tougher it seems to meet new ones.

However, I would like to single out a living legend who some of you may

know, and I'll tell you why I am singling out this true giant of a hero.

His name is Gabino Cuevas. He has been at Bethesda Memorial Hospital in

Boynton Beach Florida for many years. He has been a CAP regional

inspector for Florida and the Caribbean, and if you live in Florida,

"Gabby" has probably put the pinch on you to go out and inspect a lab

every now and then. If he really likes you, you may get a free trip to

Puerto Rico.

Recently, Gabby stepped into a situation which no New York firefighter

would ever be brave enough to step into. He agreed to perform the

Pathology peer review for a hospital with a nuclear time fuse, just

waiting to go off. In the midst of a 60-agent FBI investigation

regarding lab billing issues, a hospital who lost their CAP and JCAHO

accreditation, a threatened "billion" (yes, billion) dollar lawsuit

regarding pathology cases, more than a dozen lawsuits from its own

pathologists and medical staff (including 2 suits from its own MEC), two

Sunday prime time exposes by CNN, a front page expose by the Wall Street

Journal, and a Board of Trustees which most staff doctors believe will

eventually be in prison, Dr. Cuevas charged in like Ghostbusters and

made a HUGE difference in the whole bizarre scenario. Our pathologists

and medical staff are using the word "hero" on a regular basis to

describe him. In this world of lost credibility and lost integrity, Dr.

Cuevas, imho, stands as truly the most brave and credible and

respectable pathologist I have ever known. He makes Eliot Ness look

"Touchable". I hope you all get the chance to meet him someday. Is there

a way we can recommend him to the CAP for some kind of an award? Does

congress give medals for this kind of thing? All of the CAP politicos

and paper pushers and toadies had left us for dead. Gabby gave us back

our lives and our self respect.

One thing he discovered, after all the baloney we hear and fantasize and

rationalize about peer review, is that about 8% of routine pathology

signout cases will be disagreed upon by a fair and competent peer

pathologist, which he is, but will not result in significantly changed

patient management. The percentage of CSD's (Clinically Significant

Discrepancies) remains to be be determined, but may well be in the 1-2%

range that the Ackerman text refers to.

Without trying to sound like a Budweiser commercial, my greatest respect

goes to this true American hero! All my colleagues and our entire

medical staff agree!

John R. Minarcik, MD

http://www.mailman.srv.ualberta.ca/piperma...001-October.txt

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Hi Greg,

Nice to hear from you again.

I know a researcher who has a copy of that tape. I am trying to convince him to convert it into a format which can be placed at the forum so we can all hear it.

It is as described.

James

Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

The book is somewhat disorganized and not terribly easy to follow, especially vis-a-vis references and sources. I also don't know anything about the author.

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

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Hi Greg,

Nice to hear from you again.

I know a researcher who has a copy of that tape. I am trying to convince him to convert it into a format which can be placed at the forum so we can all hear it.

It is as described.

James

Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

The book is somewhat disorganized and not terribly easy to follow, especially vis-a-vis references and sources. I also don't know anything about the author.

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

No exit wound?

For comparison, an actual "intraoral shotgun wound" wound may be viewed here:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/InstantWebPage

James, thank you for raising this issue.

Allan

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Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

Coincidences is one way to look at it. Another way is to say that the world was fast closing in on him. Fonzi's calling card that day may have been the last straw.

FWIW Fonzi believes it was suicide.

I go back to the autopsy by Dr. Cuevas. I did a web search to see what I could find out about him. I found nothing that would compare Cuevas to the clown who did the autopsy on Vince Foster without bothering with x-rays (though he initially claimed x-rays were taken) because the machine wasn't working. I found that Cuevas wrote a letter that helped or may help (not clear which) get a man (Paul Scott) released from Death Row for a murder he didn't commit. I also found a post on a forum by a doctor who thinks Cuevas is an American hero. I can't tell for sure if he praises Cuevas so highly because he came in and cleared some medical group of criminality, or whether he came in and covered the criminality up. Here's the post FWIW:

From minarcik at gate.net Wed Oct 3 20:54:56 2001

From: minarcik at gate.net (minarcik)

Date: Wed Feb 2 11:50:05 2005

Subject: PATHO-L Tribute to a living legend!

Message-ID: <3BBBCF7F.86E159F@gate.net>

We have, from time to time, on this forum, given praise to former

colleagues, and people we have known and admired and used as role models

in pathology, most of which were honest gentlemen with integrity. The

older I get, the tougher it seems to meet new ones.

However, I would like to single out a living legend who some of you may

know, and I'll tell you why I am singling out this true giant of a hero.

His name is Gabino Cuevas. He has been at Bethesda Memorial Hospital in

Boynton Beach Florida for many years. He has been a CAP regional

inspector for Florida and the Caribbean, and if you live in Florida,

"Gabby" has probably put the pinch on you to go out and inspect a lab

every now and then. If he really likes you, you may get a free trip to

Puerto Rico.

Recently, Gabby stepped into a situation which no New York firefighter

would ever be brave enough to step into. He agreed to perform the

Pathology peer review for a hospital with a nuclear time fuse, just

waiting to go off. In the midst of a 60-agent FBI investigation

regarding lab billing issues, a hospital who lost their CAP and JCAHO

accreditation, a threatened "billion" (yes, billion) dollar lawsuit

regarding pathology cases, more than a dozen lawsuits from its own

pathologists and medical staff (including 2 suits from its own MEC), two

Sunday prime time exposes by CNN, a front page expose by the Wall Street

Journal, and a Board of Trustees which most staff doctors believe will

eventually be in prison, Dr. Cuevas charged in like Ghostbusters and

made a HUGE difference in the whole bizarre scenario. Our pathologists

and medical staff are using the word "hero" on a regular basis to

describe him. In this world of lost credibility and lost integrity, Dr.

Cuevas, imho, stands as truly the most brave and credible and

respectable pathologist I have ever known. He makes Eliot Ness look

"Touchable". I hope you all get the chance to meet him someday. Is there

a way we can recommend him to the CAP for some kind of an award? Does

congress give medals for this kind of thing? All of the CAP politicos

and paper pushers and toadies had left us for dead. Gabby gave us back

our lives and our self respect.

One thing he discovered, after all the baloney we hear and fantasize and

rationalize about peer review, is that about 8% of routine pathology

signout cases will be disagreed upon by a fair and competent peer

pathologist, which he is, but will not result in significantly changed

patient management. The percentage of CSD's (Clinically Significant

Discrepancies) remains to be be determined, but may well be in the 1-2%

range that the Ackerman text refers to.

Without trying to sound like a Budweiser commercial, my greatest respect

goes to this true American hero! All my colleagues and our entire

medical staff agree!

John R. Minarcik, MD

http://www.mailman.srv.ualberta.ca/piperma...001-October.txt

Hi Ron,

Interesting article. Certainly being in the middle of all this would cause a degree of strain. And I believe that DeM also received a round of shock treatments, indicating some mental issues if true. Certainly there have been more stable individuals that have committed suicide and perhaps DeM did also.

But I think questions do arise because of the convenient timing of the event and because the death image of the Baron and the apparent minimal damage to his head are curious. I know next to nothing about wounds and ballistics, but for a shotgun blast to the head at point-blank range, I guess I would expect to see more damage. I would certainly defer to the opinions of more qualified individulas, such as James and Ryan on that.

Greg

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Hi Greg,

Nice to hear from you again.

I know a researcher who has a copy of that tape. I am trying to convince him to convert it into a format which can be placed at the forum so we can all hear it.

It is as described.

James

Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

The book is somewhat disorganized and not terribly easy to follow, especially vis-a-vis references and sources. I also don't know anything about the author.

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. ;)

Hi James,

That certainly would be valuable (although the sound of his daughter(?) discovering the body would be disturbing).

Can you describe in a little more detail what led you to question the shotgun suicide explanation? Is it simply a matter of the degree of damage? It certainly would be interesting to see a photo of the back of his head or any autopsy photos/x-rays.

Greg

Hi James,

In reading some information Bruce Campbell Adamson published in "Oswald's Closest Friend: The George DeMohrenschildt Story", I came accross some interesting items:

  • The last person to see DeM alive was a maid in the house. She witnessed him eating lunch (toast and coffee) roughly an hour before he allegedly killed himself. Apparently he didn't want to go on to the next life on an empty stomach.

  • THe White Russian had a healthy appetite for life, his travels around the world during the Cold War were legend, he filmed in the Amazon, walked across the Yucatan........healthy guy, like John Paul I.........
  • Neither the maid nor the cook heard a shotgun blast.

  • there was no blast when the witness expired
  • Apparently Adamson has heard the recording of the gunsot that is on the tape. He states that its not very loud and that it sounds like someone slapping a ruler down on a desk.

  • rapping the knuckles
  • Adamson also claims that several "beeps" can be heard on the tape. He has identified the beeps as coming from the home's security system as people enter and exit. Of course, these could simply be a result of the comings and goings of the staff.

  • tape reproduction marks
  • The shotgun was a 20-gauge with a 28" double-barrel.

  • Epstein said DeM seemed fine at the end of their interview session and did not appear to be under any stress. The maid in the house stated that old George was acting somewhat "mad" that afternoon however, allegedly muttering the word "pussy" over and over again in reference to a cat that didn't really exist.

  • The Baron was weird, but not suicidal in the late 1970s during the House investigation
  • There was no exit wound, which seems odd at point-blank range. But perhaps someone more educated in such matters can comment on the liklihood of this.

  • A 20 gauge shotgun blast at close range should have exit wounds
  • Mary Ferrell's granddaughter married George's grandson, Curtis Lee Taylor (now if Curtis were related to Max Taylor, we'd really have something- but alas, he is not).
    If Tony Curtis married Mary Farrell his son in law would be Will Farrell, says Rip taylor

  • Adamson states that Barry Goldwater and Walter Jenkins belonged to the same 999th Air Force Reserve Squadron. He also claims that Jenkins set up two meetings (4/18/63 and 5/20/63) between DeM and LBJ.

  • good material
  • Ruth Forbes Paine (Ruth Hyde Paine's mother) lived on the same street as Prescott Bush in 1924.

Significant texas dynasty material

Haroldson Hunt and Clint Murchison are in my copy of C Wright Mills "POWER ELITE" from 1956.......

Given DeMohrenschildt's ties to George Bush (the then DCI), Oswald, and the Intelligence community, its certainly an ironic coincidence that he committed suicide just as he was being interviewed for a book on Oswald, working on a manuscript for his own book, and about to be called to testify before the HSCA. Yep, sure are a lot of coincidences when it comes to this case. :lol:

Best to all ___

Is that Shanet Clark I hear? Good to see you back in the mix Shanet!

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I know next to nothing about wounds and ballistics

Greg,

Neither do I, and like you must defer to others. I'm on the fence on this. If it was murder, it would seem to be an inside job (involving not only entrance and exit in broad daylight but someone who knew where the shotgun was located in the house), and corruption of the medical examiner, the detective who witnessed the autopsy, and the person(s) who wrote the death investigation report (none of whom, as I recall, express any surprise or curiosity about the absence of an exit wound).

Ron

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an interest to those knowing baalistics would be the cartridge:

"The weapon, when examined, was found to be a .20-gauge Ithaca

double-barrel shotgun, Serial Number 6114893. The right chamber

contained an empty Western Number 9 shot .20-gauge shotgun shell. The

left chamber contained a live shotgun shell of Number 9 shot, also

made by Western. The weapon measured forty-four-and-one-half

inches(441/2") in length and twenty-eight inches (28") from the tip of

the barrel to the trigger. This weapon was later processed for the

presence of latent fingerprints; however, none were developed, largely

due to the heavy concentration of blood on the barrel and stock of the

weapon.

Further, writer was advised by Mrs. Tilton that this shotgun was

hers and that she kept the same next to her bed and extra shells in a

night stand also next to her bed. In this night stand writer

collected a box containing twenty-one shotgun shells, all of which

were Western AA Number 9 shot."

the gunshot is on tape at 2.21

bodu found slumped forward with face pointing down.

blood observed dripping after 2.55

body still in position after 4.25

the flow of blood on face seems to indicate face was not always downwards while blood was still not congealed.

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Hi James,

That certainly would be valuable (although the sound of his daughter(?) discovering the body would be disturbing).

Can you describe in a little more detail what led you to question the shotgun suicide explanation? Is it simply a matter of the degree of damage? It certainly would be interesting to see a photo of the back of his head or any autopsy photos/x-rays. (Greg Wagner)

Hi Greg,

It was indeed the photographs which made me curious as to the official explanation.

Here is a contact sheet showing the death scene images. It is clear that the back of the Baron's head remained in tact. Another curious aspect is the amount of blood that has pooled on the floor. Again, this doesn't seem to jibe with the apparent wound to the head. Could this scene have been staged?

As to Gabino Cuevas, he wrote the following in 1997. I post this purely as a curiosity.

I truly believe it will be within the next 1 to 5 years, closer to 1

than to 5 actually. The Pope's visit will bring unparalleled numbers of

foreign (i.e., mostly free) press, as well as many pilgrims. Little by little,

the Cuban people's eyes are being opened to the lies they have lived with all

these years. Things such as "free" medicine and education are being exposed for

the sham that they are. It's sad to say, but the educational level of Cuban

refugees (e.g., Livan Hernandez) is dreadful. Chusmeria is the national norm.

What a shame for these last 40 years.

Political motivations aside, anyone can be got to, even the most honest of men. This view I don't believe to be cynical but realistic.

FWIW.

James

Edited by James Richards
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