De Mohrenschildt - did we get the truth?

[Greg Wagner]

Hi James,

That certainly would be valuable (although the sound of his daughter(?) discovering the body would be disturbing).

Can you describe in a little more detail what led you to question the shotgun suicide explanation? Is it simply a matter of the degree of damage? It certainly would be interesting to see a photo of the back of his head or any autopsy photos/x-rays. (Greg Wagner)

Hi Greg,

It was indeed the photographs which made me curious as to the official explanation.

Here is a contact sheet showing the death scene images. It is clear that the back of the Baron's head remained in tact. Another curious aspect is the amount of blood that has pooled on the floor. Again, this doesn't seem to jibe with the apparent wound to the head. Could this scene have been staged?

As to Gabino Cuevas, he wrote the following in 1997. I post this purely as a curiosity.

I truly believe it will be within the next 1 to 5 years, closer to 1

than to 5 actually. The Pope's visit will bring unparalleled numbers of

foreign (i.e., mostly free) press, as well as many pilgrims. Little by little,

the Cuban people's eyes are being opened to the lies they have lived with all

these years. Things such as "free" medicine and education are being exposed for

the sham that they are. It's sad to say, but the educational level of Cuban

refugees (e.g., Livan Hernandez) is dreadful. Chusmeria is the national norm.

What a shame for these last 40 years.

Political motivations aside, anyone can be got to, even the most honest of men. This view I don't believe to be cynical but realistic.

FWIW.

James

It does seem to be a rather tidy scene and the intact rear portion of the victim's head seems, to a novice like me, to be quite strange.

This case illustrates rather clearly how powerful political motivations can be. And you are absolutely correct when you say that "anyone can be got to, even the most honest of men." Everyone has pressure points. Everyone. Someone looking to gain control over an individual need only to discover such pressure points- and squeeze. Of course this is something that folks in the intelligence business have always known and praticed. How many men compromised their integrity out of fear when they made, or failed to make, statements about this case? I'm certain that there are still a few folks alive today who know a great deal and would like to set the record straight, were it not for someone waiting and willing to squeeze. Their silence being the evidence that they've been "got to."

[James Richards]

I agree with you, Greg.

Doctoring a report or looking the other way is an easy thing to do when one's family comes under threat. Like you say, the ghouls know which buttons to push.

James

[Allan Eaglesham]

"Another curious aspect is the amount of blood that has pooled on the floor. Again, this doesn't seem to jibe with the apparent wound to the head."

James:

The large pool of blood may be consistent with the close-up photograph. A large amount of blood will be produced from a head wound if the heart continues to pump. The person dies from loss of blood. Greater trauma to the brain is more likely to lead directly to death (as in President Kennedy's case, for example) with less production of blood.

Allan

[James Richards]

"Another curious aspect is the amount of blood that has pooled on the floor. Again, this doesn't seem to jibe with the apparent wound to the head."

James:

The large pool of blood may be consistent with the close-up photograph. A large amount of blood will be produced from a head wound if the heart continues to pump. The person dies from loss of blood. Greater trauma to the brain is more likely to lead directly to death (as in President Kennedy's case, for example) with less production of blood.

Allan

Good point, Allan.

Thank you.

James

[Ron Ecker]

As a case to compare, Hemingway is supposed to have died the same way (shotgun in mouth). Does anyone know if there was an exit wound as one would expect?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

As a case to compare, Hemingway is supposed to have died the same way (shotgun in mouth). Does anyone know if there was an exit wound as one would expect?

Good question, and while we wait for James Richards to post a photo of Hemingway in death, here is a link to one of Hemingway in life:

http://www.mackwhite.com/HEMINGWAY_CASTRO.jpg

[John Dolva]

"Another curious aspect is the amount of blood that has pooled on the floor. Again, this doesn't seem to jibe with the apparent wound to the head."

James:

The large pool of blood may be consistent with the close-up photograph. A large amount of blood will be produced from a head wound if the heart continues to pump. The person dies from loss of blood. Greater trauma to the brain is more likely to lead directly to death (as in President Kennedy's case, for example) with less production of blood.

Allan

Good point, Allan.

Thank you.

James

The autopsy claims he died as a result of the shot entering the brain. I'm hoping a firearms expert can state whether a

'a .20-gauge Ithaca

double-barrel shotgun, Serial Number 6114893. The right chamber

contained an empty Western Number 9 shot .20-gauge shotgun shell. The

left chamber contained a live shotgun shell of Number 9 shot, also

made by Western. The weapon measured forty-four-and-one-half

inches(441/2") in length and twenty-eight inches (28") from the tip of

the barrel to the trigger.'

and the wounds are consistent.

apparently a number of lead fragments and the waddijng were removed from the wound.

If it had struck a major vessel then the following COULD occur.

There are areas of blood spatter on surrounding items. The eyes are blackened, the side of face distorted. This is consistent with explosive cavitation. (Xrays?). One thing about this particular cavitation is the direct passage to the lungs as bellows. the heart is nestled in there, so with artery vein severance in head lungs expanding and cavitation in head and resultant blow out could possibly account for divers dispersal. Further the body slumping forward to where the head is lower than the heart could with above result in large scale blood drain.

[Francesca Akhtar]

I am having problems loading some photos on the forum and the same with this one of George DM - I have no idea why. I've tried loading the page in two different browsers but what always happens is only the top half loads even if I refresh/reload the page.

Any one know why?

Thanks

[John Simkin]

The official story regarding George de Mohrenschildt's death is that he placed a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Having seen many shotgun victims over the years, I have to say that what we see below doesn't resemble any of those in the slightest.

It is very interesting that several other people who were possibly connected to the assassination of JFK died in the same way (shotgun in the mouth). For example, Phil Graham, Frank Wisner, William Pawley, etc. I assume that this is a fairly easy way to kill someone and then make it look like suicide.

[Ron Ecker]

John,

Did Graham et al have exit wounds?

This raises another question. If someone shot De Mohrenschildt and/or others to make it look like a shotgun suicide, then why not shoot him with the shotgun?

Why shoot him with something else (leaving no exit wound) and plant the shotgun?

Ron

[Jim Root]

I have seen two victims of shotgun blasts to the head, one of the persons survived his suicide attempt.

While in college I worked in a mortuary and two out of every five months we worked on coroners calls. I was called out for a shotgun suicide that was done with a 12 guage shotgun. The result was total devestation to the head. The wounds caused by a 12 guage would be very different from what would be done by a much smaller 20 gauge shotgun shell.

By coincidence I saw a person that was hospitalized after attempting suicide with a 12 guage to the mouth. Apparently he jerked the rifle stock backward which caused the barrel to go forward as he pulled the trigger. In this case he blew off his face but did not damage his brain or any other areas vital to sustaining life. In effect he missed his chance to kill himself and inflicted additional damage to his obviously low self esteem.

My simple imput here would be to say that all shotguns are not alike. A 20 guage would do nowhere near the damage of a 12 guage. Depending upon the load of the 20 guage shell (shot type and powder load) the damage would be varied as well.

Jim Root

[Guest John Gillespie]

an interest to those knowing baalistics would be the cartridge:

"The weapon, when examined, was found to be a .20-gauge Ithaca

double-barrel shotgun, Serial Number 6114893. The right chamber

contained an empty Western Number 9 shot .20-gauge shotgun shell. The

left chamber contained a live shotgun shell of Number 9 shot, also

made by Western. The weapon measured forty-four-and-one-half

inches(441/2") in length and twenty-eight inches (28") from the tip of

the barrel to the trigger. This weapon was later processed for the

presence of latent fingerprints; however, none were developed, largely

due to the heavy concentration of blood on the barrel and stock of the

weapon.

Further, writer was advised by Mrs. Tilton that this shotgun was

hers and that she kept the same next to her bed and extra shells in a

night stand also next to her bed. In this night stand writer

collected a box containing twenty-one shotgun shells, all of which

were Western AA Number 9 shot."

__________________________________________________________

When I first read the 'Net version of the Police report, my shock turned to immediate cynicism much like that Sunday morning with Mr. Ruby at center stage. Here was a rifle and shells laying about in a nearby room. Handy. Nice setup. The profile of DeM already had been put in place, what with the shock treatments, medication, etc.

Thanks for the photos, guys; first time for me.

Regards,

JG

Edited March 20, 2006 by John Gillespie

[Ryan Crowe]

One thing I was wondering was if the Baron was wearing shoes, looks like he was in his socks, where he would probably need his big toe to pull the trigger, due to barrel length....does anyone know if his sock was looked at for gun powder residue etc??? Also a 20 gauge shotgun at such a short distance would still have taken his head else where....Ive seen worse head wounds from a 410 shotgun with bird shot than what I see in this picture...

[John Dolva]

"At 1830 hours, writer proceeded with further examinations of the

deceased at the Bethesda Hospital morgue. Additional photographs were

taken of the victim, the clothing collected, and the hands were

swabbed for the possibility of obtaining gunshot residue through

neutron activation analysis. The body was fingerprinted, and palm

prints were obtained along with pubic and head hair samples. The only

wound on the body was in the left side of the roof of the mouth. The

shotgun at the scene, as already mentioned, measured forty-four inches

in length, and twenty-eight inches for the tip of the barrel to the

trigger. From the center of the victim's lip to the tip of the right

thumb measured thirty-three inches, and to the tip of the index finger

measured thirty-five inches."

link to what appears to be a fairly comprehensive set of reports (posted by Ron earlier)

http://jfkassassination.net/death2.txt