Ku Klux Klan

[John Dolva]

''when ex-General Walker led the riots at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962, and he did this on behalf of Governor Ross Barnett.'' - really. Who did Barnett do this on the behalf of?

As we read in the definitive book on the Ole Miss riots, American Insurrection (2000) by William Doyle, we encounter the nonsense that Ross Barnett, woh had already made deals with JFK to admit James Meredith into Ole Miss, was nevertheless seduced into grand-standing before the Mississippi public in every speech of that period, insisting that he would never, ever back down to the demands of the Civil Rights movement. - Barnett was merely staying the same but was forced by the secret taping by RFK to (by the Kennedys) to accept that he should stand aside without Kennedy's Enforcers unholstering their weapons.

"Edwin Walker in Texas was a great fan of Ross Barnett, and believed every lie that Barnett told the public on the radio and television. So Walker, in respect of Barnett, went on the radio himself, and called for "ten thousand strong from every State in the Union" to join him in Jackson, Mississippi, for a convoy up to Oxford, Mississippi, to confront the Federal Troops that JFK would assign to protect James Meredith as he registered and walked from class to class at Ole Miss." - the Kennedys pulled a fast one and he was neutered. "beilieved every lie? really.

Walker counted on Barnett to keep his word to the public -- but that was not to be. Mississippi Highway Patrol Chief, Colonel T.B. Birdsong, was stopping all cars with out-of-state license plates, and confiscating all weapons (to be returned upon leaving Mississippi). This put a severe damper on Walker's plans for insurrection. - no, the HP were letting Walkers troops through the best they could while they could. The damper was again them being outfoxed by the Kennedys. They treated it as war and were awake and focused throughout the event, as it unfolded with Katzenbach their main on the ground enforcer. This ensured Alabama and The Bull event following was a walkover.

'' the only weapons held by the thousands of protestors on Walker's (and supposedly Ross Barnett's) side were bricks from a nearby construction site, and an old tractor and an old fire truck. - Have you read Doyles book???

when JFK gave his famous Civil Rights speech of 11 June 1963, animosity was at a fever pitch when the very next day, Byron de la Beckwith would shoot Medgar Evers in the back, right in the driveway of Medgar Evers' own home, in front of his wife and children. - no, Within hours just past midnight. Evers had been watching the speech with a bunch of others. He was described as unusually apprehenmsive and withdrawn. The he went home and was shot.

So I do not deny -- in fact I openly affirm -- Walker's political actions from 1962-1964 were dominated by racist elements.

However, I must also point out the fact that Walker did not publicize the fact that he offered comfort to Beckwith. Because when the Warren Commission asked ex-General Edwin Walker where he was in early 1964, he said only that he was "on a trip". He would not boast of -- or breathe a word of -- his contact with Beckwith in that period. - It was in the papers. It was Public. Who really thought or wanted it to not be part of the WC statements?

The involvement of racist elements in the killing of JFK is increasingly apparent to me, in the context of the history of JFK's enemies. The Civil Rights era was the most heated and deadly domestic arena of politics in 1963. The assassination of Medgar Evers on 12 June 1963 prefigured the assassination of JFK on 22 November 1963. - Yup.

[Paul Trejo]

really. Who did Barnett do this on the behalf of?

.

- Barnett was merely staying the same but was forced by the secret taping by RFK to (by the Kennedys) to accept that he should stand aside without Kennedy's Enforcers unholstering their weapons.

- the Kennedys pulled a fast one and he was neutered.

- "beilieved every lie? really.

- no, the HP were letting Walkers troops through the best they could while they could. The damper was again them being outfoxed by the Kennedys. They treated it as war and were awake and focused throughout the event, as it unfolded with Katzenbach their main on the ground enforcer. This ensured Alabama and The Bull event following was a walkover.

'' the only weapons held by the thousands of protestors on Walker's (and supposedly Ross Barnett's) side were bricks from a nearby construction site, and an old tractor and an old fire truck. - Have you read Doyles book???

when JFK gave his famous Civil Rights speech of 11 June 1963, animosity was at a fever pitch when the very next day, Byron de la Beckwith would shoot Medgar Evers in the back, right in the driveway of Medgar Evers' own home, in front of his wife and children. - no, Within hours just past midnight. Evers had been watching the speech with a bunch of others. He was described as unusually apprehenmsive and withdrawn. Then he went home and was shot.

- It was in the papers. It was Public. Who really thought or wanted it to not be part of the WC statements?

John, I'll answer by the numbers:

(1) Ross Barnett acted on behalf of his constituency in Mississippi -- largely the White Citizens' Councils and the KKK.

(2) Edwin Walker (by his own words to his students as overheard by the AP cub reporter) was unaware that Ross Barnett had made a deal. He thought it was Birdsong who made the deal.

(3) According to Doyle's book, Barnett made a deal with JFK and then he backed out of it. He did not stay the same -- he waffled. JFK held this over his head (because their agreement was taped). JFK threatened to give the news media Barnett's agreement with the Kennedys, and this terrified Barnett.

(4) I have no idea where you got the notion that Edwin Walker was neutered when he was incarcerated in the Springfield Hospital for the insane. It's not historical.

(5) According to Doyle's book, the Mississippi Highway Patrol was confused about events, because they were whiplashed from their KKK orientation to a new orientation as Federalized. Some of them walked out. But Birdsong made it plain that he was not going to disobey the Governor's direct order -- confiscate weapons. They did not let rifles through, officially, according to Doyle.

(6) I read Doyle's book carefully, John. There were rifles that arrived on the riot scene, but they were from the local KKK, and not from the out-of-state KKK, as far as Doyle could determine.

(7) I stand corrected, sort of -- although Medgar Evers was officially shot on 12 June 1963, it was in the wee hours in the morning. Thus, one might also say that Medgar Evers was shot late at night on 11 June 1963. BTW, Evers pleaded with the NAACP to temporarily ease up on their pressure on the KKK, because he lived in Mississippi, and he knew he was a target. The NAACP did not ease up.

(8) The Walker handshake with Beckwith was in local Mississippi papers. It was not national news. And FYI the time period was part of the Warren Commission statements in the context of questioning about Warren Reynolds, who had been shot around that time. Walker was asked when he met with Reynolds. Walker said it was several days after Reynolds was shot, and specifically because Reynolds was shot. So Walker was asked where he was during those several days (i.e. why didn't he contact Reynolds sooner). Walker replied that he was "on a trip". That was his trip to Mississippi to shake Beckwith's hand with Ross Barnett -- but he wouldn't say so.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

really. Who did Barnett do this on the behalf of?

.

- Barnett was merely staying the same but was forced by the secret taping by RFK to (by the Kennedys) to accept that he should stand aside without Kennedy's Enforcers unholstering their weapons.

- the Kennedys pulled a fast one and he was neutered.

- "beilieved every lie? really.

- no, the HP were letting Walkers troops through the best they could while they could. The damper was again them being outfoxed by the Kennedys. They treated it as war and were awake and focused throughout the event, as it unfolded with Katzenbach their main on the ground enforcer. This ensured Alabama and The Bull event following was a walkover.

'' the only weapons held by the thousands of protestors on Walker's (and supposedly Ross Barnett's) side were bricks from a nearby construction site, and an old tractor and an old fire truck. - Have you read Doyles book???

when JFK gave his famous Civil Rights speech of 11 June 1963, animosity was at a fever pitch when the very next day, Byron de la Beckwith would shoot Medgar Evers in the back, right in the driveway of Medgar Evers' own home, in front of his wife and children. - no, Within hours just past midnight. Evers had been watching the speech with a bunch of others. He was described as unusually apprehenmsive and withdrawn. Then he went home and was shot.

- It was in the papers. It was Public. Who really thought or wanted it to not be part of the WC statements?

John, I'll answer by the numbers:

(1) Ross Barnett acted on behalf of his constituency in Mississippi - largely the White Ciizens' Councils and the KKK. - Have you looked into the Southern intelligence Network and the Roles of the various Sovereignty VCommissions through the south.? Concentrate on the role of the Louisiana Sovereignty Commission and the Leaders of it.

(2) Edwin Walker (by his own words to his students as overheard by the AP cub reporter) was unaware that Ross Barnett had made a deal. He thought it was Birdsong who made the deal. - uhu

(3) According to Doyle's book, Barnett made a deal with JFK and then he backed out of it. He did not stay the same -- he waffled. JFK held this over his head (because their agreement was taped). JFK threatened to give the news media Barnett's agreement with the Kennedys, and this terrified Barnett. - only into accepting stepping aside with Kennedy's enforcers not unholstering. Then on to Beckwith. Terrified? I doubt it.

(4) I have no idea where you got the notion that Edwin Walker was neutered when he was incarcerated in the Springfield Hospital for the insane. It's not historical. - The insurrection was neutered.

(5) According to Doyle's book, the Mississippi Highway Patrol was confused about events, because they were whiplashed from their KKK orientation to a new orientation as Federalized. Some of them walked out. But Birdsong made it plain that he was not going to disobey the Governor's direct order -- confiscate weapons. They did not let rifles through, officially, according to Doyle. - yes, officially. So? Officially JFK was killed by a lone nut. Officially cop's don't lie.

(6) I read Doyle's book carefully, John. There were rifles that arrived on the riot scene, but they were from the local KKK, and not from the out-of-state KKK, as far as Doyle could determine. - Doyle describes out of towners as given instructions on how to pass.

(7) I stand corrected, sort of -- although Medgar Evers was officially shot on 12 June 1963, it was in the wee hours in the morning. Thus, one might also say that Medgar Evers was shot late at night on 11 June 1963. BTW, Evers pleaded with the NAACP to temporarily ease up on their pressure on the KKK, because he lived in Mississippi, and he knew he was a target. The NAACP did not ease up.

(8) The Walker handshake with Beckwith was in local Mississippi papers. It was not national news. And FYI the time period was part of the Warren Commission statements in the context of questioning about Warren Reynolds, who had been shot around that time. Walker was asked when he met with Reynolds. Walker said it was several days after Reynolds was shot, and specifically because Reynolds was shot. So Walker was asked where he was during those several days (i.e. why didn't he contact Reynolds sooner). Walker replied that he was "on a trip". That was his trip to Mississippi to shake Beckwith's hand with Ross Barnett -- but he wouldn't say so. - nor was he asked to say.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

(1) Have you looked into the Southern intelligence Network and the Roles of the various Sovereignty VCommissions through the south.? Concentrate on the role of the Louisiana Sovereignty Commission and the Leaders of it.

(3) "JFK threatened to give the news media Barnett's agreement with the Kennedys, and this terrified Barnett." - only into accepting stepping aside with Kennedy's enforcers not unholstering. Then on to Beckwith. Terrified? I doubt it.

(4) The insurrection was neutered.

(5) But Birdsong made it plain that he was not going to disobey the Governor's direct order -- confiscate weapons. They did not let rifles through, officially, according to Doyle. - yes, officially. So? Officially JFK was killed by a lone nut. Officially cop's don't lie.

John, once again by the numbers:

(1) I haven't yet researched the Southern intelligence Network, nor the roles of the various Sovereignty Commissions through the South. I appreciate the valuable citation, and I will make a stronger effort to read up on them.

(1.1) I will concentrate particularly on the role of the Louisiana Sovereignty Commission and its leaders. Again, I appreciate your insight into this question.

(3) I do agree with you that Barnett tried to manipulate JFK with every breath he took. This is how he got into trouble with JFK, because JFK was a far better manipulator. If JFK had given CBS, NBC and ABC news his tape-recordings of Ross Barnett making a deal with JFK, that would have been the end of Barnett's career in the South -- and Barnett could have become endangered by his own constituency. That's what terrified Barnett (according to Doyle). Yet Barnett never gave up trying to manipulate JFK. JFK and RFK agreed that the Federal Troops would not use bullets -- and they really wanted to at times, because they took a serious beating from bricks, bottles, rocks and molotov cocktails.

(3.1) John, you seem to suggest that Barnett planned the Beckwith attack on Medgar Evers -- and I have no proof one way or the other. Barnett surely tried to manipulate the KKK and the White Citizen's Councils, and it seems they manipulated him better in the long run. I think that Barnett was personally offended by Evers' victory over him at Ole Miss, so I can see your assessment of motivation.

(4) Oh, I see, you were using 'neutered' as a metaphor. OK.

(5) About BIrdsong, it is plain that Doyle portrays him as waffling -- and also as unwilling to go along with JFK's plan -- but Doyle also portrays Birdsong as finally relenting. I can easily see that he would have averted his eyes if there was "bureaucratic resistance" to the plan -- and I can even seen the likelihood that the Mississippi Highway Patrol, almost most all of whom were members of the KKK or of White Citizens' Councils, would secretly disobey their Federal Orders. I think that's obvious. Still, Doyle portrays Birdsong as reluctantly compliant with the JFK deal that Barnett made.

In conclusion, I will make a new effort today to research the Lousiana Sovereignty Commission and its leaders.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited February 14, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

BTW, Evers pleaded with the NAACP to temporarily ease up on their pressure on the KKK, because he lived in Mississippi, and he knew he was a target. The NAACP did not ease up.

What?

Yes, this is expounded in the latest book by James Meredith, A Mission from God (2012). It was co-authored by William Doyle.

Best regards,

--Paul

[Paul Trejo]

Sorry, it was the image of the early 1960s NAACP being asked "to temporarily ease up on their pressure on the KKK" that threw me. But as long as there's a source for it we're in good shape.

Right, Daniel, because Meredith's point was that Medgar Evers had increasing premonitions that he was going to die.

Evers knew that the NAACP was making tremendous strides in 1963, thanks to recent Federal Court decisions, and he believed the South was not ready for such an upsurge in changes for Black rights. He heard the speeches given by the Massive Resistance to US Civil Rights, and they were impassioned, suffering, like a fighter on the ropes.

Evers grew up in the South. He knew the people. He knew that if the NAACP did not throw the white-supremacists a bone from time to time, that they would act out. Evers knew how much they could take. He was certain he was going to be killed very soon -- and he was.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Well no doubt the NAACP were always a pushy bunch, especially in the 60s, trying to impose their will and stuff. So it would've been nice if they could throw white supremacists a bone from time to time, but clearly an organization like that with that kind of power and not being from the South and not understanding southerners was not going to let anything stand in the way of them fulfilling their dark agenda -- ultimate global domination.

Well, that's right, Daniel. No doubt that paranoid type of thinking sounds bizarre to us in the early 21st century, but a half-century ago we should not be surprised to witness people thinking that way. The NAACP seems like a courteous group of people to us today -- and no doubt they were always courteous (otherwise, they could hardly have been as successful as they have been). However, reading speeches by Strom Thurmond back in the 1950's, one gets the idea that the NAACP were a bunch of wild savages.

Medgar Evers lived with this sort of prejudice his entire life. It was not a small thing in Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and North Carolina, although it was a small thing in California where I grew up. In Southern California we had outspoken white-supremacists, but there were very few, and widely regarded as nutty and not at all as Christian, which was the culture (and remains so).

Also, Black Americans were not seen as a major social problem where I grew up. The Watts riots got lots of news coverage, but aside from a few isolated incidents, race was not a news item. Probably this is because the population of Black Americans in Southern California was about 10%.

The case is different in the Deep South. First, the population of Black Americans in the Deep South is often 50% in many counties, and up to 80% in some counties. In those counties where the population of Black Americans is the highest, that is precisely where the loudest and most persistent white-supremacists lived. They regularly elected white-supremacists to high office, including Congress and the Senate. They regularly used the "N" word, not only at home, but also in public places and even in high-office.

Medgar Evers was profoundly aware of all this. He could see the paranoia rise in his home town. He knew he was about to be killed. And he was.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Mr. Trejo, you're so literal-minded it's almost no fun to use irony, sarcasm, satire, etc etc when replying. But I thank you for educating me on the sociological background and important distinctions of this here race relations in the USA stuff.

Now you're saying that what you wrote and matter-of-factly introduced, apparently as the gist of what you gathered from reading the mature James Meredith -- that the NAACP was in any position to "pressure" or "ease pressure on" the KKK/white supremacists in the early 1960s -- is not your own idea or formulation of how you see things but is instead one of those examples of "that paranoid type of thinking" which characterized bigots of that era (1950s-60s)? If that's correct I suppose it's progress, because in my own literal-minded way I read your statements as your own perspective on things and now only wish you had prefaced what you had to say with something like, "this is how 'they' (racists, bigots, etc) viewed things." That way I wouldn't have gotten confused and started thinking you were merely one of those conservative historical revisionist types, wanting to encourage people to think of the NAACP in that era being "problematic," "stirring things up," etc -- wielding too much power, in effect, and causing so much bad blood among all of God's children in the American South.

Daniel,

You mean...you were being sarcastic?

--Paul

Edited February 20, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

(1) Have you looked into the Southern intelligence Network and the Roles of the various Sovereignty VCommissions through the south.? Concentrate on the role of the Louisiana Sovereignty Commission and the Leaders of it.

...

Well, John, it appears as though I will need to buy a vowel. I have looked high and low for a book about the Lousiana Sovereignty Commission (aka. Louisiana State Sovereignty Commission) and found nothing anywhere.

There is no entry in Wikipedia about it. There is no chapter in any history book about it.

There is, however, a wonderous web site about the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission, and they display some correspondence that they held with the Lousiana Sovereignty Commission in the 1960's -- but it is sparse and mostly useless.

So I contacted the State of Louisiana, specifically in their Department of Archives and History. They told me that their archives are tiny compared with the Mississippi, and they could find very, very little -- next to nothing about it, aside from a few invoices and memos about scheduled meetings. Some of the names on the memos included John Deere, Jack Gould, John Satterfield and Earle Johnston, but I found nothing important written by these men.

Oddly, in the whole internet, the most active thread on the Sovereignty Commission in general is the thread that you started back in 2006, as I recall. Goldwater's name came up as an exploiter of this sort of group.

The most interesting character, IMHO, was Louis W. Hollis, evidently the national leader of the Sovereignty Commission, who wrote that screed with which you opened your old thread, namely, the FIVE POINT ACTION PROGRAM. I did enjoy reading that article -- it is substantial.

I also tend to favor your theory -- that the people who could write such inflammatory rhetoric about Black Americans, so openly and so shamelessly, would be the prime candidates to carry out Executive Action violence against JFK.

This corresponds with my budding theory that names ex-General Edwin Walker -- who was very close to Ross Barnett and various White Citizen Council groups, and who lived in Dallas and who also believed that RFK was out to kill him.

So -- I'm interested in finding out more -- not speculation, but hard historical documents. Yet I could not find out, as you suggested, the names of the leaders of the Louisiana State Sovereignty Commission. Where did you find that information?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

It is, as has been pointed out before, that there is a surpriing lack of info available re the LSC and much of that in the MSC files. I found when studying the various SC's through the south that the LSC seems to have been a HQ. One can approach a Walker connecton through the Shreveport (Councilor) articles and through the papers from the LSC. Interestingly Banister was promoted for employment by the MSC by a head of the LSC in 64, shortly after that he was dead (heart attack). I wish I had direct access to what's likely available in the US re this, but alas no. I think the connections and the gaps are suggestive and worth persuing.

[Paul Trejo]

It is, as has been pointed out before, that there is a surpriing lack of info available re the LSC and much of that in the MSC files. I found when studying the various SC's through the south that the LSC seems to have been a HQ. One can approach a Walker connecton through the Shreveport (Councilor) articles and through the papers from the LSC. Interestingly Banister was promoted for employment by the MSC by a head of the LSC in 64, shortly after that he was dead (heart attack). I wish I had direct access to what's likely available in the US re this, but alas no. I think the connections and the gaps are suggestive and worth persuing.

John, where did you find any papers from the LSC? The MSC has letters to the LSC, but nothing much from the LSC.

Also, would those Shreveport Councilor articles that mention Walker appear at a time before the JFK assassination? Where did you find those? If you aren't using US archives, what resources are you using, may I ask?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited February 23, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

You need to scrub through the files, Paul. I spent months, if not a year and more jumping around, checking names, going off on tangents, trying different name spellings, nicknames, folder names. Some stuff even isn't indexed. (Interestingly P. Bush is hidden in the corner of the statement by Thurmond re the Walker Senate Committee on Muzzling the Military but isn't indexed.), Play with the indexing in the urls.

I can't remember which issues of the Councilor was there. I focused on the one just after.(the assassination)

[Paul Trejo]

You need to scrub through the files, Paul. I spent months, if not a year and more jumping around, checking names, going off on tangents, trying different name spellings, nicknames, folder names. Some stuff even isn't indexed. (Interestingly P. Bush is hidden in the corner of the statement by Thurmond re the Walker Senate Committee on Muzzling the Military but isn't indexed.), Play with the indexing in the urls.

I can't remember which issues of the Councilor was there. I focused on the one just after.(the assassination)

John, your thread on the KKK resonates with the more recent thread on the KKK and JFK by Terri Williams. She says she knows who killed JFK -- although she can't tell anybody the name (even though he's dead) because his friends are still living. But she is willing to say that he was first and foremost a member of the KKK.

Well -- we can't verify a name that we don't have -- but if we give Terri Williams the benefit of the doubt, we can still check out the secondary characteristics of her story. For one thing, she said that Guy Banister came to her home town to recruit KKK members to train at the Lake Pontchartrain paramilitary training grounds to invade Cuba in 1963. Cuban Exiles were training there, along with Minutemen, and Guy Banister wanted some young KKK supporters there, too.

All these groups operated with the philosophy of the John BIrch Society (a variation on the philosophy of the late Senator Joseph McCarthy, i.e. that Communists had infiltrated Washington DC). For the John Birch Society and their followers, the Communists had already taken over Washington DC and the State Department -- and FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK had all been Communists.

For this reason, JFK was supporting race-mixing in Mississippi's Ole Miss University (30 September 1962) -- because for the South, race-mixing was Communist.

Also, JFK had banned all underground paramilitary training camps preparing for another raid on Cuba -- because for the South, JFK was a Communist who secretly supported the USSR and Cuba.

Because JFK angered the extreme rightists in the USA so much -- the rightists became so united that they could hold their noses and draft boys from the KKK to get involved in the struggle. Now this became a grass-roots movement -- well funded from many sources.

Once this occurred, the underground element of the rightists -- guided by Guy Banister -- would take all these threats against JFK to the next level -- In Dallas.

The one person that makes all these pieces fit together is Roscoe White -- he was a Minuteman, a John BIrcher, a member of the KKK, a supporter of the White Citizens' Council, and was also a policeman with the Dallas Police Department. He was in Dallas on 22 November 1962. His son, Ricky, says his father confessed to killing JFK on his deathbed. His wife also admitted this.

Finally, Ron Lewis, author of the 1993 book, Flashback: The Untold Story of Lee Harvey Oswald, relates that in the summer of 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald told him personally that Roscoe White was going to kill JFK in Dallas in November.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

Which 'my thread on the KKK? Anyway, I think it is very important that people get a full appreciation of the race war in the USofA. I have to revise a previous statement re Emmett Till being a trigger for the modern Civil Rights Movement.

Ultimately it's all about money. The Unionising of the Pullman porters is more likely the sort of event that really got things going as the Status Quo came to realise that the essence of Communism is about Working Class Unity in the face of Capitalism. Communism always has a place in those struggles and is always the most dangerous idea to the Status Quo.

I wouldn't necessarily place Banister at the center of things.

I have no interest in Roscoe White.

edit typo

Edited February 25, 2013 by John Dolva

[Norman T. Field]

For a deeper understanding of the south, segregation and their society, may I suggest the book,

"The Warmth of Other Suns"?

You won't regret it.