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TSBD Altgens Photo who's who?


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The picture that Altgens took looking directly at the front of the TSBD there is a guy standing just to the right of the stairs (our left) wearing a dark suit and a gray fodora but his face has been scratched out, when this phot first hit the streets I kind of remember that it was speculated that he was Jack Ruby.

Any thoughts about that?

Along these same lines has it ever really been varified that the guy in the doorway (Billy Lovelady) is really him and not LHO?

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The picture that Altgens took looking directly at the front of the TSBD there is a guy standing just to the right of the stairs (our left) wearing a dark suit and a gray fodora but his face has been scratched out, when this phot first hit the streets I kind of remember that it was speculated that he was Jack Ruby.

Any thoughts about that?

Along these same lines has it ever really been varified that the guy in the doorway (Billy Lovelady) is really him and not LHO?

Scott, I think the person you are talking about was holding a child and standing next to a woman (possibly his wife). What looks like a defect on the picture is the child's stocking cap .... the little puff-ball can be seen on the top of the stocking cap if you look close.

Bill

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The picture that Altgens took looking directly at the front of the TSBD there is a guy standing just to the right of the stairs (our left) wearing a dark suit and a gray fodora but his face has been scratched out, when this phot first hit the streets I kind of remember that it was speculated that he was Jack Ruby.

Any thoughts about that?

Along these same lines has it ever really been varified that the guy in the doorway (Billy Lovelady) is really him and not LHO?

I would say it's still open. That is my opinion only.

It is still my opinion that the dark complected individual on the stairs is still unidentified and does not belong there. Anyone feel free to correct me. As related to me by a former TSBD employee - the black employees tended to gather in groups, primarily so that their conversations would not be overheard by whites. That was the way of things then in Dallas, 1963. You can gather who was standing on the stairs by reading Stanton, Lovelady, Oswald and Shelley's accounts and testimony. So who is this man - since he is clearly not Norman, Givens, Williams, or Jarman? Why isn't he watching the motorcade? Is he the same man as the one we see later crossing the grass on the south side of Elm? Is he a Cuban, and an operative?

Additionally, Oswald cannot be placed anywhere in the building, except at specific times when he was seen - and even these are not concrete, IMO. Oswald was being doubled for months - why not on this day? I see nothing to suggest that Oswald lied when he was interviewed, as per the notes taken by Fritz. The individual that would then require additional scrutiny would be Bill Shelley. Even as per a post made by Gerry Hemming someplace on this forum, something to the effect that the rabbit may have popped it's head up out of the hole to see what was going on.

And none of this explains why some of the folks in the doorway, as photographed by Altgens, had their facial features deliberately removed - again, that is my opinion - I have nothing to corroborate or substantiate such a claim. The photo was apparently marred in this specific area upon it's first public release. Just another amazing and fantastical coincidence.

- lee

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Last one....it appears at a minimum 2 folks have been defaced. Just my opinion. If one was Lovelady, it would work well, again, for his having been harassed and questioned by DPD about being in two places at once - as per his Brother-in-Law.

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And none of this explains why some of the folks in the doorway, as photographed by Altgens, had their facial features deliberately removed - again, that is my opinion - I have nothing to corroborate or substantiate such a claim. The photo was apparently marred in this specific area upon it's first public release. Just another amazing and fantastical coincidence.

- lee

:PI had never heard it said before that people who were standing in shadow or being shaded from the sun were equivalent to having their images suspiciously removed. If by chance that you ever get to the 6th floor Museum ... make an appointment with Gary Mack to view some of the photos they have on file there ... you may be surprised that while these shaded areas look black on the prints we see circulated in books and such - the actual prints or high resolution scans from them are lighter and many times we can see into these shaded areas.

Bill

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And none of this explains why some of the folks in the doorway, as photographed by Altgens, had their facial features deliberately removed - again, that is my opinion - I have nothing to corroborate or substantiate such a claim. The photo was apparently marred in this specific area upon it's first public release. Just another amazing and fantastical coincidence.

- lee

:PI had never heard it said before that people who were standing in shadow or being shaded from the sun were equivalent to having their images suspiciously removed. If by chance that you ever get to the 6th floor Museum ... make an appointment with Gary Mack to view some of the photos they have on file there ... you may be surprised that while these shaded areas look black on the prints we see circulated in books and such - the actual prints or high resolution scans from them are lighter and many times we can see into these shaded areas.

Bill

Hi Bill.

I would agree after a limited fashion - I have many scans which I have done from multiple sources. Tell you what - as opposed to your suggestion, how about if I source a blow-up directly from World press? Then we can take a close look at it and determine whether or not the area is devoid of detail. We may be able to get a better view of the dark complected individual as well, which I believe would be worth the money. Thougts?

- lee

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Hi Bill.

I would agree after a limited fashion - I have many scans which I have done from multiple sources. Tell you what - as opposed to your suggestion, how about if I source a blow-up directly from World press? Then we can take a close look at it and determine whether or not the area is devoid of detail. We may be able to get a better view of the dark complected individual as well, which I believe would be worth the money. Thougts?

- lee

You can try, but you really need to view the original negative or a print made from it. While prints can be lightened, they can only offer what ever quality within the image that was there when the print was created. Many times even the setting of exposure on a negative can offer a beter view into these shaded areas.

Bill

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You guys are awsome, I knew I had found the right place to find the info I needed!

Thank you Bill for bringing the child to light I never really saw it before and suddenly since you pointed it out it really stands out now.

IMO there is a multitude of information in this one picture just waiting for us to find.

I still feel that the guy in the doorway with the half opened shirt and white tee shirt is LHO, wasn't Lovelady photographed with a wide striped shirt that he said he was wearing that day?

I can honestly see myself reading for weeks on this forum and each and every time I log in I find new items that I just can't wait to read.

Thanx to all, Scott

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"I still feel that the guy in the doorway with the half opened shirt and white tee shirt is LHO, wasn't Lovelady photographed with a wide striped shirt that he said he was wearing that day?"

Scott, I think you are perhaps confusing the photo of Lovelady from Groden's book showing Billy in a striped shirt. On the day of the assassination, Billy was photographed and/or filmed wearing a plaid shirt (red). If I come across a transparency overlay I created showing this ... I will post it for you.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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Robin - that's a vast improvement over the versions I have. It brings more light to the question of whether or not this guy may have been one of the radio coordinators - sheer speculation of course. Perhaps it is not the man walking towards us across the grass on the south side, but this guy we see from the rear in this shot [Cancellare?].

Scott - Welcome to the Forum!

- lee

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Scott, I think you are perhaps confusing the photo of Lovelady from Groden's book showing Billy in a striped shirt. On the day of the assassination, Billy was photographed and/or filmed wearing a plaid shirt (red). If I come across a transparency overlay I created showing this ... I will post it for you.

Bill

post-1084-1145659719_thumb.jpg

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Robin - that's a vast improvement over the versions I have. It brings more light to the question of whether or not this guy may have been one of the radio coordinators - sheer speculation of course. Perhaps it is not the man walking towards us across the grass on the south side, but this guy we see from the rear in this shot [Cancellare?].

Scott - Welcome to the Forum!

- lee

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Interestingly, that's a Rambler (station wagon?) on Elm behind the crowd [in Cancellare's (?) photo]. It's hard to tell whether or not someone's riding "shotgun" in it, but if so could it be LHO or a "double" or some "bad guy"?

FWIW, Thomas B)

_____________________________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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