Items from the assassination that eat at me!

[Scott G. Edwards]

Of course you already know that I take issue with the idea of a lone gunman being able to fire off a minimum of three shots in 6-8 seconds with an obsolete and decrepid bolt action rifle with accuracy!

The second item that eats away at me is C399 AKA The magic Bullet, if you really give this item some thought the people who pulled this crime off must have thought about even this item because it is an almost perfect bullet and it is claimed to have passed through two bodies including bones and fell out on a streatcher in Parkland Hospital, I think not! This bullet was fired either into cotton wadding or a water trap and it was never going to be evidence of a shot going through two bodies, it (IMHO) was really only left on that gurney simply to link the shooting to Oswalds Rifle, further more because this bullet is so close to perfect how could a bullet be fired without any damage? as I said above it was fired into wadding or water which means to me that some good candidates would be in the Law Enforcement catagory.

There are some real inconsistancies in what actually took place that day and what the reality is, there were at least three shots that hit inside the Lincoln that day, where are the rest of the three? Why wasn't Dealey Plaza and the surrounding buildings all locked down and a perimiter set up so that nobody leaves or enters the area until Law Enforcement is satisfied that they have apprehended the shooter/s after all this was the murder of the single most powerful man in the World!

What happened to the Press? I think that in most cases there is a press vehicle proceeding the Presidents car which usually have some kind of video footage being taken during motorcades, why not on that day?

For a guy who was accused of shooting the President, Oswald was a pretty cool individual, it is my opinion that he thought that the people he was in cahoots with would be able to get him out of this situation, only not the way they did...

The questions continue and the answers are few and far between, but seek the truth we must!

Scott

[John Dolva]

Of course you already know that I take issue with the idea of a lone gunman being able to fire off a minimum of three shots in 6-8 seconds with an obsolete and decrepid bolt action rifle with accuracy!

The second item that eats away at me is C399 AKA The magic Bullet, if you really give this item some thought the people who pulled this crime off must have thought about even this item because it is an almost perfect bullet and it is claimed to have passed through two bodies including bones and fell out on a streatcher in Parkland Hospital, I think not! This bullet was fired either into cotton wadding or a water trap and it was never going to be evidence of a shot going through two bodies, it (IMHO) was really only left on that gurney simply to link the shooting to Oswalds Rifle, further more because this bullet is so close to perfect how could a bullet be fired without any damage? as I said above it was fired into wadding or water which means to me that some good candidates would be in the Law Enforcement catagory.

There are some real inconsistancies in what actually took place that day and what the reality is, there were at least three shots that hit inside the Lincoln that day, where are the rest of the three?

......

Why wasn't Dealey Plaza and the surrounding buildings all locked down and a perimiter set up so that nobody leaves or enters the area until Law Enforcement is satisfied that they have apprehended the shooter/s after all this was the murder of the single most powerful man in the World!

........

What happened to the Press? I think that in most cases there is a press vehicle proceeding the Presidents car which usually have some kind of video footage being taken during motorcades, why not on that day?

For a guy who was accused of shooting the President, Oswald was a pretty cool individual, it is my opinion that he thought that the people he was in cahoots with would be able to get him out of this situation, only not the way they did...

The questions continue and the answers are few and far between, but seek the truth we must!

Scott

The murder of Tippit perhaps?

[Antti Hynonen]

John Dolva Posted Yesterday, 06:13 AM

QUOTE(Scott G. Edwards @ May 1 2006, 06:54 AM)

Of course you already know that I take issue with the idea of a lone gunman being able to fire off a minimum of three shots in 6-8 seconds with an obsolete and decrepid bolt action rifle with accuracy!

The second item that eats away at me is C399 AKA The magic Bullet, if you really give this item some thought the people who pulled this crime off must have thought about even this item because it is an almost perfect bullet and it is claimed to have passed through two bodies including bones and fell out on a streatcher in Parkland Hospital, I think not! This bullet was fired either into cotton wadding or a water trap and it was never going to be evidence of a shot going through two bodies, it (IMHO) was really only left on that gurney simply to link the shooting to Oswalds Rifle, further more because this bullet is so close to perfect how could a bullet be fired without any damage? as I said above it was fired into wadding or water which means to me that some good candidates would be in the Law Enforcement catagory.

There are some real inconsistancies in what actually took place that day and what the reality is, there were at least three shots that hit inside the Lincoln that day, where are the rest of the three?

......

Why wasn't Dealey Plaza and the surrounding buildings all locked down and a perimiter set up so that nobody leaves or enters the area until Law Enforcement is satisfied that they have apprehended the shooter/s after all this was the murder of the single most powerful man in the World!

........

What happened to the Press? I think that in most cases there is a press vehicle proceeding the Presidents car which usually have some kind of video footage being taken during motorcades, why not on that day?

For a guy who was accused of shooting the President, Oswald was a pretty cool individual, it is my opinion that he thought that the people he was in cahoots with would be able to get him out of this situation, only not the way they did...

The questions continue and the answers are few and far between, but seek the truth we must!

Scott

The murder of Tippit perhaps?

Occurred some 45 minutes after the Dealey Plaza shots.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

1, The "curtain rods" that nobody but frazier, and his sister sees Oswald with.

2, The speed with which Oswald got from the snipers nest to the rest room.

3, The ease with which he left the TSBD.

4, The multiple early descritions of rifles found in, and on the TSBD.

5, the Secret service agents in D/P that never were.

6, the confiscated films, that were never returned to their owners, or produced in evidence.

7,THE ZAPRUDER FILM.

8, the rush up the grassy knoll, and smoke witnessed at the same.

9,The late night S/S drinking session, in fact the whole performance of certain S/S agents.

10, The whole Tippet farago.

11, The whole Texas theater farago.

12,The fact that not one word of the interegation was taped.

13,The Raleigh phone call.

14, The Dealy Plaza "Looky-Likeys"

15, JACK RUBY..............

Just a select few of my own personel favorites..Steve.

[Jim Hackett II]

I would add the excuses the world has been handed as "investigations" by the US Government.

WC and HSCA to be more specific.

This state or states of affairs emphasizes the role of the independent political researcher in knowing what we do know and can prove about cover-ups. I think many deserve a round of applause and a dash of recognition for those efforts.

Some individuals in the research arena DO NOT. Some turned, some are driven by something other than a desire for networking and furtherance of knowledge and dissemination of that knowledge.

Some rip off the work of others and seemingly think nothing is amiss in that situation. Some refuse to consider or even acknowledge another's time and effort for reasons not publicly known.

However the postive effects of independent researchers work is that both the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations were brought forth as replies to interest of the American and Global public in unanswered questions about the death of the 35th President.

Because the "investigations" produced more cover-ups cannot be blamed on the efforts of the independent researchers - we all Americans as Americans have to accept that predicament. We let it stand and didn't hold the Govt.'s feet to the fire to secure honest answers.

Why should we have to wait for authors to expose the connections to the MIICC from players in Dallas in 1963? Why can't the US Government do its job representing the interests of We the People?

The last straw or two for me personally has been the complete ignoring of the HSCA's formal request of the Dept. of Justice to investigate the areas left untouched and unresolved questions in the murder of the President by the DOJ under RReagan.

Too sleepy to have noticed the request of Congress expressing the will of We the People? Nothing new for the GOP in that.

Witness the GHW BU$H ignoring the JFK Act until it was no longer in his power for him to halt the LAW all the while passing out pardons to Iran-Contra CRIMINALS before he was disempowered in 1993. Same old junk.

Parallel the son today reclassifying materials. How the heck can we know if we are holding reclassified materials today? Wait for Blackwater Security punks to snatch us away in the night to some Halliburton built underground Gitmo? In AmeriKKKa it is legal now.

Questions re the 911 Fables? The new boss in the same as the old bosses.

Neither party has any effective answers. More lies and more cover up and non denial denials to follow I bet. Simply put We the People are too gullible and too intimidated to be able to seek redress of grievance. That exact thing is my second pet peeve aluded to above.

However I would ask the Americans to go Vote today in the Primary. I did. You Should.

If allowed a third, it would be the sometimes expressed lack of respect for another's views in the research community. Agreement isn't the issue, disagreeing agreeably is. Attacking a position without sliding down the slippery slope to slander, name calling and inneundo is not that difficult is it?

Not for most human beings I know.

That is my long winded post about things about the JFK murder and attending issues that bother me.

Jim

Edited May 2, 2006 by Jim Hackett II

[Guest John Gillespie]

Scott

___________________________

{"There are some real inconsistancies in what actually took place that day and what the reality is, there were at least three shots that hit inside the Lincoln that day..."}

Scott,

For me, it has been shown satisfactorily that there were at least four and probably five: JFK got hit three times (throat, back and head); Connally twice(rib, wrist). Groden's DVDs and other researchers' works have broken this down extremely well.

{"I think that in most cases there is a press vehicle proceeding the Presidents car which usually have some kind of video footage being taken during motorcades, why not on that day?"}

This particular question is an example of why I come here. GREAT question, which I for one have not considered, which begs another question as to why this whole arrangement - or lack of it - was not thoroughly examined.

Thanks,

JG

Edited May 2, 2006 by John Gillespie

[Guest John Gillespie]

1, The "curtain rods" that nobody but frazier, and his sister sees Oswald with.

2, The speed with which Oswald got from the snipers nest to the rest room.

3, The ease with which he left the TSBD.

4, The multiple early descritions of rifles found in, and on the TSBD.

5, the Secret service agents in D/P that never were.

6, the confiscated films, that were never returned to their owners, or produced in evidence.

7,THE ZAPRUDER FILM.

8, the rush up the grassy knoll, and smoke witnessed at the same.

9,The late night S/S drinking session, in fact the whole performance of certain S/S agents.

10, The whole Tippet farago.

11, The whole Texas theater farago.

12,The fact that not one word of the interegation was taped.

13,The Raleigh phone call.

14, The Dealy Plaza "Looky-Likeys"

15, JACK RUBY..............

Just a select few of my own personel favorites..Steve.

_____________________________

The Essentials; thanks, Stephen...I want to add, as others will of course, at least one more - one that has bugged ME no end: how did the team members on the Sixth Floor get out of the building? This has not been postulated to a sufficient degree anywhere of which I'm aware. I'm talking about a serious breakdown.

Regards, JG

[Jim Root]

I too am bugged by the magic bullet but find myself intrigued by both sides of the argument.

On the one hand you have a bullet that is in remarkably good condition dispite the damage that the Warren Commission claims that it did. Put this together with the fact that the excellent condition of this "magic bullet" allows for a balistic match with "Oswald's" weapon and you have the basis for a "lone nut" conclusion that was accepted by the Warren Commission. This bullet is said to have created four entry and three exit wounds in two victims, rather remarkable (and I think everyone agrees with that statement of remarkable).

On the other hand, accepting that multiple shooters or multiple shots created the same entry and exit wounds ascribed to the "magic bullet" would prove a conspiracy, there are some questions that still have not been answered in a satisfactory way for myself.

If we accept that the magic bullet "was really only left on that gurney simply to link the shooting to Oswalds Rifle" the conspirators would need to have had knowledge of and planned for a logical explanation of where the "magic bullet" was to have come from.

This is what bugs me, the thigh wound to John Connelly. The depth of this wound is about the same length as the "magic bullet" that was retrieved at the hospital as was the shape of the wound a match to that bullet. The wound showed that it had entered from above and behind which makes sense because entering from the front or the sides of the vehicle would have been impossible (the windshield and door frame would have prevented this bullet from entering from any other direction). Above and behind would place the bullet in a path to explain, at least, the entry and exit wound to Connelly's back and nipple area (and provide for an explanation of the wrist wounds).

Either the conspirators new in advance that this wound would exist (which would explain where the "magic bullet" came from) or we must accept the potential that a bullet that is consistant with the thigh wound (where no bullet was extracted from) could have fallen from Connelly's body and ended up on the gurney.

We must also be willing to place persons involved in the conspiracy at the hospital to place the "magic bullet" on the gurney as well as attendents and doctors in the emergency room with Connelly that would remove a bullet that would be extracted from the thigh wound and then make that bullet disappear (requiring multiple conspirators to be assigned and placed to accomplish this duel task).

I do not argue for or against multiple shooters here (I leave open that possibility), all I wish to add to this discussion is to open a dialogue on how the conspirators would have fore knowledge of the thigh wound, where (and how) the bullet that made the thigh wound disapeared to (as well as when) after the wound was made and where that bullet would have had to travel from before it entered Connelly's thigh.

Jim Root

Edited May 2, 2006 by Jim Root

[Mark Stapleton]

The fact that this matter isn't being debated in the mainstream media bugs me. They know the official story is a fallacy and it was officially confirmed by the HSCA with a finding of "probable conspiracy".

I'm alluding to the media owners. The media's silence can't be chalked up to National Security because the Cold War and the Soviet Union are gone, so what's the reason for the cone of silence? With all the information now available, evidence of complicity is emerging from surprising places. Why doesn't the media publicly campaign to have all official records made available, so further progress can be made? They like public campaigns: Iraq, Law and Order, the urgent necessity of globalisation, the War on Drugs (some of their best work) and 'Spot the Communist' to name just a few.

I interpret the media's silence as meaning the true story isn't in the public interest. They've obviously discussed the matter when making this decision. They don't want to go there. But there's no way the public can know if it's in the public interest until the public knows what occured in Dallas, who was involved and, for that matter, what was the media's excuse? Of course, all these answers are in the public interest. How can the media argue against it in a free and democratic society? That's what America is--according to the media.

[Pat Speer]

This is what bugs me, the thigh wound to John Connelly. The depth of this wound is about the same length as the "magic bullet" that was retrieved at the hospital as was the shape of the wound a match to that bullet. The wound showed that it had entered from above and behind which makes sense because entering from the front or the sides of the vehicle would have been impossible (the windshield and door frame would have prevented this bullet from entering from any other direction). Above and behind would place the bullet in a path to explain, at least, the entry and exit wound to Connelly's back and nipple area (and provide for an explanation of the wrist wounds).

Jim Root

Jim, you've let yourself get caught up in some of the LN nonsense. The bullet that entered Connally's thigh basically bounced off. No bullet lodged there. I believe it's Dr. Gregory who described this wound as tangential. There was no surgery required. They just stitched up the opening. In short, there's no reason to believe that the magic bullet had anything to do with that wound. The NAA analysis of the magic bullet, moreover, showed that it was almost certainly not the bullet to go through Connally's wrist. If anything, CE399 was the bullet that created Kennedy's back wound.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Pat Speer

[Bruce Cormier]

Mark, if YOU had blown -- or acquiesced in a government cover-up of -- THE biggest story domestically in the 20th century, would you be drawing attention to the subject? For anyone with any professional pride, this has to be a matter of great shame.

Further, one could have a robust debate on whether journalists, or politicians, or bureaucrats or more prideful and arrogant as a group. When have you last heard a major media outlet confess, "we were wrong by embracing a fantasy hook, line and sinker" -- much less acknowledge that on a matter of such consequence?

Finally, this is a "profession" that couldn't even press pertinent questions on phantom WMD's in Iraq. And you expect them to make a meaningful contribution resolving the very quagmire they created here, 4 decades after the fact? That these people claim special status as guardians of democracy is a sick joke.

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark, if YOU had blown -- or acquiesced in a government cover-up of -- THE biggest story domestically in the 20th century, would you be drawing attention to the subject? For anyone with any professional pride, this has to be a matter of great shame.

Further, one could have a robust debate on whether journalists, or politicians, or bureaucrats or more prideful and arrogant as a group. When have you last heard a major media outlet confess, "we were wrong by embracing a fantasy hook, line and sinker" -- much less acknowledge that on a matter of such consequence?

Finally, this is a "profession" that couldn't even press pertinent questions on phantom WMD's in Iraq. And you expect them to make a meaningful contribution resolving the very quagmire they created here, 4 decades after the fact? That these people claim special status as guardians of democracy is a sick joke.

Bruce,

Yes, the mainstream media have a lot to lose. I'm optimistic that the internet will diminish their hold on the public agenda and ultimately pressure them into facing the issue. What an interesting journey that would be.

[Ryan Crowe]

Im still wondering why not ONE bit of cleaning equipment (rods) (solvents) (cleaning patches)etc. nor extra ammo were found in Oswalds possessions....

[Jim Root]

This is what bugs me, the thigh wound to John Connelly. The depth of this wound is about the same length as the "magic bullet" that was retrieved at the hospital as was the shape of the wound a match to that bullet. The wound showed that it had entered from above and behind which makes sense because entering from the front or the sides of the vehicle would have been impossible (the windshield and door frame would have prevented this bullet from entering from any other direction). Above and behind would place the bullet in a path to explain, at least, the entry and exit wound to Connelly's back and nipple area (and provide for an explanation of the wrist wounds).

Jim Root

Jim, you've let yourself get caught up in some of the LN nonsense. The bullet that entered Connally's thigh basically bounced off. No bullet lodged there. I believe its Dr. Gregory who described this wound as tangential. There was no surgery required. They just stitched up the opening. In short, there's no reason to believe that the magic bullet had anything to do with that wound. The NAA analysis of the magic bullet, moreover, showed that it was almost certainly not the bullet to go through Connally's wrist. If anything, this bullet would be the bullet to create Kennedy's back wound.

Pat

You are dealing with my point. It is the "tangential" wound that allows for the "magic bullet" to be found. Without it there is not a logical explanation of where the bullet came from that the Warren Commission could use to explain Connolly's thigh wound while at the same time tying the bullet to an Oswald owned rifle. Once again I am not dealing with how many shots were fired or from where, I am only dealing with the fact that something caused that thigh wound and nothing was recovered, except for the "magic bullet" on the stretcher which then is used to account for the "tangential" thigh wound and tie a rifle to Oswald.

This circle brings me back to my problem, "How did the conspirators know that that thigh wound would exist before the assassination occured?" How were the conspirators prepared to "plant" the "magic bullet" which would then provide for an explanation of where the thigh wound, which hadn't yet occured, would have come from? We cannot have it both ways. If a bullet was planted on the strectcher where did the Connolly bullet go, which we can assume was intact, that created the "tangential" thigh wound? If the stretcher bullet is the Connolly thigh wound bullet, it was fired by the Carcano rifle recovered from the 6th floor which is, at a minimum, the rifle attributed to Oswald's ownership.

Without an intact bullet being found that could explain the Connolly thigh wound, we would all be screaming that the conspirators had gotten rid of that bullet. We would be postulating that an intact bullet could have conclusivly proved or disproved, by balistics, if "Oswald's" rifle had fired the shots on Nov. 22nd.

Instead we have an intact bullet which can be used to explain the "tangential" thigh wound and the ballistics but as believers in conspirators we seem forced to find a way to explain that bullet away without question why we must do that.

A remarkable piece of planning on the part of the consirators, wouldn't you agree? Perhaps a key piece in the coverup is taking a key piece of evidence and making everyone believe that it cannot be a key piece of evidence. Something any good lawyer would do. Something John J. McCloy had a great deal of experience in when dealing with the German governments coverup of the Black Tom affair. Interesting that the same person would be on the Warren Commission to provide us with the same type of evidence that could be so easily questioned.

Is this all necessary to prove a conspiracy? Or is it a distraction that is keeping us from the truth (I believe that McCloy would enjoy this)? If Oswald were a shooter we need not explain away that bullet. Perhaps by focusing on that possibility we could find the actual conspirators that would have been in a position to use Oswald as a shooter and we may then become much closer to discovering the truth. 40+ years of trying to explain away that bullet has not gotten us any closer. Perhaps we should reexamine our approach.

Jim Root

[John Dolva]

Jim, while looking at another matter I came across a detailed contemporary account of the missing 3 civil rights workers of 1964. Part of this multipage document described how the police fed information they gathered from informants to citicens who had access to coroners and 'doctors' (who'd forgotten their oaths). At times there would be pre kill conferences about the best ways to dispose of bodies.

There was one unofficial autopsy of the black civil rights worker which found that contrary to official autopsy many bones were shattered, pulped. For example a bullet to the wrist turns out to be a chain bashing. This unexpected and attempted obfuscation was uncovered by a dc surgeon appointed by the mother. In the circumstances, they, in the end could not deny her this autopsy. The wc surgeon was watched by 3 local doctors, coroners etc who stonyfaced watched the manipulation of the yoiung mans limbs which obviously put a lie to the official autopsy, made no comments and the washington doctor left in disgust.

Elsewhere in the document gunshot wounds to other 'uppity negroes' become heart attacks.

What I'm getting at is that the procedures and people were in place in the south at that time to do what today seems incredible. An arrogant closed society with a long historyof deceit. The assassination coincides with the beginning of the dismantling of this. Things changed but I'm not surprised should it be shown that doctors and other personnell were involved in some way, even to the point of preplanning.