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Craig Roberts: Kill Zone


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Hello Tom

I interpret what Craig is really saying a liitle differently than do you.

I feel that Craig is approaching this from the standpoint that a logical and staight thinking sniper would, if he knew that he and his spotter,

realized that this mission was to both kill and stay alive and free from capture.

The only two things in the mind of such a professional should be blended into one. " From what position am I most likely to acquire a kill that will also allow me a reasonable probability of escape and evasion". I don't do "suicide"!

In my opinion, the North or South knoll areas would best allow this. It would also allow the possibility of two attempted shots, which should not be necessary with the well skilled shooter and the proper weapon.

Ideally, diversionary sounds from the opposite directions would be greatly desirable for both a second possible shot attempt and a better chance for escape.

Even if one is determined to believe that Oswald was a lone gunman, we must not forget that this happened during lunch break. Nothing would have prevented Oswald from leavng the TSBD, retrieving his "pre hidden" weapon, and have had both a better field of fire while being in a much stronger position to escape.

I was never a sniper, however logic would convince me that the 6th floor did not best support my mission....or desire to continue living.

With the only "possible" change being that I could have chosen either knoll.

Charlie Black

Well!

There was one in Havanna who was set in position to terminate Fidel Castro in this exact manner.

JFK had been fully advised of the potential threat from such an event.

And lastly, since I just shared it with someone else, the two films of JFK in the New Orleans, Library of JFK's visit there on May 4th, 1962, which includes film of his motorcade through New Orleans, certainly make good "training" films.

ANY position which was LATERAL to the target would have required LATERAL TRACKING of the target as it moved across the field of fire at an unknown speed.

Plus the "Drop" in grade elevation of Elm St. would have required a continous vertical sighting compensation incorporated in with the lateral tracking movement.

Anyone who thinks this is easy knows little, other than perhaps having shot birds with shotguns.

This would have been the absolutely worst position and there is no way that one could take such a position and assume that no pedestians/parade watchers/ Motorcycle cops alongside,etc would not also be in the vicinity.

I truly do not know exactly what, if anything, it will take to convince supposedly rational thinking persons that witness's, as a whole, observed all of the shots fired from the TSDB, as well as having witnessed the shooter there.

The "second best" shooting would have been as the limo approached the TSDB, and if one "assumes" planned shooting then this provided the opportunity for one to "take" this shot in the event that there were SS Agents riding on the back of the Limo which would have blocked any shot when the limo was on Elm St.

The position was the ABSOLUTE BEST under all conditions; insured that an open shot at JFK could be achieved, compensated for the variables of SS Agents possibly being on the back of the car, provided a "high" shot in which the sound would be difficult to utilize in locating the firing position.

ALL of which makes it the IDEAL position!

And, although the shooter (from the sixth floor) no doubt had a decent shot at JFK as he approached the turn off Houston St. onto Elm St., this shot was not taken.

Instead, the "wait" until the Presidential Limo was in the absolutely IDEAL location, going away slowly downhill, with NO SS DETAIL personnel standing on the back bumper and blocking the view.

All of which is either one hell of a coincidence, or the signs of extremely well planning by personnel who knew far more than LHO should have known regarding these aspects of target acquisition and termination.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Orleans Library:

President John F. Kennedy

Visit to New Orleans, Motorcade, student's Signs, Highway Lined with People, St. Charles Ave. Crowds, JFK Speaks.

May 1962

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An excellent "training" film!

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Hello Tom

I interpret what Craig is really saying a liitle differently than do you.

I feel that Craig is approaching this from the standpoint that a logical and staight thinking sniper would, if he knew that he and his spotter,

realized that this mission was to both kill and stay alive and free from capture.

The only two things in the mind of such a professional should be blended into one. " From what position am I most likely to acquire a kill that will also allow me a reasonable probability of escape and evasion". I don't do "suicide"!

In my opinion, the North or South knoll areas would best allow this. It would also allow the possibility of two attempted shots, which should not be necessary with the well skilled shooter and the proper weapon.

Ideally, diversionary sounds from the opposite directions would be greatly desirable for both a second possible shot attempt and a better chance for escape.

Even if one is determined to believe that Oswald was a lone gunman, we must not forget that this happened during lunch break. Nothing would have prevented Oswald from leavng the TSBD, retrieving his "pre hidden" weapon, and have had both a better field of fire while being in a much stronger position to escape.

I was never a sniper, however logic would convince me that the 6th floor did not best support my mission....or desire to continue living.

With the only "possible" change being that I could have chosen either knoll.

Charlie Black

Well!

There was one in Havanna who was set in position to terminate Fidel Castro in this exact manner.

JFK had been fully advised of the potential threat from such an event.

And lastly, since I just shared it with someone else, the two films of JFK in the New Orleans, Library of JFK's visit there on May 4th, 1962, which includes film of his motorcade through New Orleans, certainly make good "training" films.

ANY position which was LATERAL to the target would have required LATERAL TRACKING of the target as it moved across the field of fire at an unknown speed.

Plus the "Drop" in grade elevation of Elm St. would have required a continous vertical sighting compensation incorporated in with the lateral tracking movement.

Anyone who thinks this is easy knows little, other than perhaps having shot birds with shotguns.

This would have been the absolutely worst position and there is no way that one could take such a position and assume that no pedestians/parade watchers/ Motorcycle cops alongside,etc would not also be in the vicinity.

I truly do not know exactly what, if anything, it will take to convince supposedly rational thinking persons that witness's, as a whole, observed all of the shots fired from the TSDB, as well as having witnessed the shooter there.

The "second best" shooting would have been as the limo approached the TSDB, and if one "assumes" planned shooting then this provided the opportunity for one to "take" this shot in the event that there were SS Agents riding on the back of the Limo which would have blocked any shot when the limo was on Elm St.

The position was the ABSOLUTE BEST under all conditions; insured that an open shot at JFK could be achieved, compensated for the variables of SS Agents possibly being on the back of the car, provided a "high" shot in which the sound would be difficult to utilize in locating the firing position.

ALL of which makes it the IDEAL position!

And, although the shooter (from the sixth floor) no doubt had a decent shot at JFK as he approached the turn off Houston St. onto Elm St., this shot was not taken.

Instead, the "wait" until the Presidential Limo was in the absolutely IDEAL location, going away slowly downhill, with NO SS DETAIL personnel standing on the back bumper and blocking the view.

All of which is either one hell of a coincidence, or the signs of extremely well planning by personnel who knew far more than LHO should have known regarding these aspects of target acquisition and termination.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Orleans Library:

President John F. Kennedy

Visit to New Orleans, Motorcade, student's Signs, Highway Lined with People, St. Charles Ave. Crowds, JFK Speaks.

May 1962

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An excellent "training" film!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did not go to the head of the class!

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Craig Roberts & Carlos Hathcock (both scratch shooter's) have stated that they could not have duplicated the alleged shooting feat.

I don't believe that L H Oswald (at best a low hanicap shooter) was capable of the alleged shooting feat.

Tom where were you on the day of the assassination?

Chris Brown.

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Hello Tom

I interpret what Craig is really saying a liitle differently than do you.

I feel that Craig is approaching this from the standpoint that a logical and staight thinking sniper would, if he knew that he and his spotter,

realized that this mission was to both kill and stay alive and free from capture.

The only two things in the mind of such a professional should be blended into one. " From what position am I most likely to acquire a kill that will also allow me a reasonable probability of escape and evasion". I don't do "suicide"!

In my opinion, the North or South knoll areas would best allow this. It would also allow the possibility of two attempted shots, which should not be necessary with the well skilled shooter and the proper weapon.

Ideally, diversionary sounds from the opposite directions would be greatly desirable for both a second possible shot attempt and a better chance for escape.

Even if one is determined to believe that Oswald was a lone gunman, we must not forget that this happened during lunch break. Nothing would have prevented Oswald from leavng the TSBD, retrieving his "pre hidden" weapon, and have had both a better field of fire while being in a much stronger position to escape.

I was never a sniper, however logic would convince me that the 6th floor did not best support my mission....or desire to continue living.

With the only "possible" change being that I could have chosen either knoll.

Charlie Black

Well!

There was one in Havanna who was set in position to terminate Fidel Castro in this exact manner.

JFK had been fully advised of the potential threat from such an event.

And lastly, since I just shared it with someone else, the two films of JFK in the New Orleans, Library of JFK's visit there on May 4th, 1962, which includes film of his motorcade through New Orleans, certainly make good "training" films.

ANY position which was LATERAL to the target would have required LATERAL TRACKING of the target as it moved across the field of fire at an unknown speed.

Plus the "Drop" in grade elevation of Elm St. would have required a continous vertical sighting compensation incorporated in with the lateral tracking movement.

Anyone who thinks this is easy knows little, other than perhaps having shot birds with shotguns.

This would have been the absolutely worst position and there is no way that one could take such a position and assume that no pedestians/parade watchers/ Motorcycle cops alongside,etc would not also be in the vicinity.

I truly do not know exactly what, if anything, it will take to convince supposedly rational thinking persons that witness's, as a whole, observed all of the shots fired from the TSDB, as well as having witnessed the shooter there.

The "second best" shooting would have been as the limo approached the TSDB, and if one "assumes" planned shooting then this provided the opportunity for one to "take" this shot in the event that there were SS Agents riding on the back of the Limo which would have blocked any shot when the limo was on Elm St.

The position was the ABSOLUTE BEST under all conditions; insured that an open shot at JFK could be achieved, compensated for the variables of SS Agents possibly being on the back of the car, provided a "high" shot in which the sound would be difficult to utilize in locating the firing position.

ALL of which makes it the IDEAL position!

And, although the shooter (from the sixth floor) no doubt had a decent shot at JFK as he approached the turn off Houston St. onto Elm St., this shot was not taken.

Instead, the "wait" until the Presidential Limo was in the absolutely IDEAL location, going away slowly downhill, with NO SS DETAIL personnel standing on the back bumper and blocking the view.

All of which is either one hell of a coincidence, or the signs of extremely well planning by personnel who knew far more than LHO should have known regarding these aspects of target acquisition and termination.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Orleans Library:

President John F. Kennedy

Visit to New Orleans, Motorcade, student's Signs, Highway Lined with People, St. Charles Ave. Crowds, JFK Speaks.

May 1962

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An excellent "training" film!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did not go to the head of the class!

I'm a little confused.

Are you agreeing with or arguing against Mr. Roberts critique of the shooting as alleged by the WC?

A simple yes I agree or no I don't agree would be easiest for me to understand. All the extra words tend to

confuse me.

My opinion, which was not asked for, is that I cannot discount a combat experienced and trained sniper's determination of what is possible.

Please forgive my punctuation and grammer. English was not my best subject in school.

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Chuck

I absolutely agree. Tho my or Tom's opinion may have "some" merit, the "expert testimony" of a proven combat sniper should hold the same degree of weight as would be given an acclaimed medical professional, in their prognosis of a medical condition.

Since the "professional" opinion of an ex military sniper definitely does not side with the government position of 43 years, I feel that his thoughts should be given the utmost weight......unless of course one is to believe that Craig's testimony was "purchased" by "rich conspiracy theorists" !

Not to be sacrilegious, but unless an emmisary of God was sighting that Carcano for Oswald.... I feel the shots were undoable by Lee as well as most humans on this earth.

I feel that of all the controversy associated with this case, the belief that LHO made those shots with that rifle, is the most absurd. My opinion only, but considering that no one else has done this with a moving target, on a declining grade at varying speeds....with a weapon even much better than the M.C........why would anyone even dream this absurdity.

I feel that the belief that LHO as the single assassin of JFK, should have stopped diverting research and dicussion on these forums many years ago. EVERYTHING is wrong with the supposition that

LHO fired those killing shots. Literally EVERYTHING

Until most are willing to free themselves of the RELIGION of the Zapruder films virgin birth and of Lee Harvey Oswalds inhuman skills with a rifle, this will no doubt never end....as it has been so planned. I refer to these two aspects of the case as "Religion" for a very sound reason. They are "both based on Faith alone" !

Charlie Black

Charlie Black

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Craig Roberts & Carlos Hathcock (both scratch shooter's) have stated that they could not have duplicated the alleged shooting feat.

I don't believe that L H Oswald (at best a low hanicap shooter) was capable of the alleged shooting feat.

Tom where were you on the day of the assassination?

Chris Brown.

1. I was working in Athens, Ohio.

2. Neither Carlos Hathcock nor Craig Roberts (not unlike everyone else on this forum), ever bothered to find out that the WC was not telling the truth and facts.

The shooting scenario, as outlined by the WC, with the Z312/313 headshot being the last shot would be an excellent and difficult feat of shooting.

But then again, I was never dumb enough to believe this, just as I never believed in "THE SHOT THAT MISSED" as defined by the WC.

So, do I agree that the shooting sequence as stated by the WC would be difficult??

Most assuredly.

Was this the actual shooting sequence??

Most assuredly not?

Am I dumb enough to stick my foot in my mouth about the impossiblity of shots without first finding out what the true facts are????

Hopefully not.

Are others???

Most assuredly!

Anyone who sticks their foot in their mouth based on something that the WC has stated, really neads a reality check!

Lastly, all that anyone has ever looked at was LHO's relatively "marginal" shooting ability, which represent and overall shooting score for 5 shooting stations. Which resulted in his "Marksman" qualification.

As former USMC personnel, I would have at least expected these persons to have recognized that the markmanship award is an "overall/average" score.

Kind of like having someone with a PHD in History, and then making him take five separate tests which would include History/ Advanced Math/English/Philosophy/ Government.

And, thereafter awarding a ranking on his knowledge of history, based on his overall average score of ALL subjects in which tested.

Just for your information, they have started such "Teacher Testing" programs in several states, and so many of the teachers were failing in subjects outside their field of study that they started cheating on the tests in order to maintain their jobs.

LHO consistantly fired in the upper ranges of EXPERT in 3 out of the five firing stations during rangefire qualification.

These stations were where he had a fixed firing position/stable firing platform.

In the two stations where he had to "free-hand", he completely failed one long range qualification and barely passed the second station.

These two lower shooting grades degraded his overall score down to the "Marksman" range.

In addition, the wind speed had more than doubled during one of these stations, and LHO was constantly making sighting adjustments in an attempt to compensate for this increase in lateral wind speed.

Attempting to establish a "windage" corretion during rangefire qualification is a lost cause.

And, his shooting score reflects it.

Wanna bet exactly how many others virtually failed this firing station on that given day and at that given time??

I would further point out that of the three stations in which LHO achieved the high grades (expert), the ranges were at 200 yards/300 yards/& 500 yards.

The third shot fired in Dealy plaza was just a few feet short of the 100 yard range.

Anyone who tells you that LHO never demonstrated the marksmanship ability to achieve the shooting, did not bother to do their homework.

Either in his shooting ability, as well as the actual shooting sequence.

Now!

Take the TRUE shooting sequence to any qualified individual and ask them for a "second opinion".

Personally, I have never liked "rigged test" questions, and was taught to present ALL of the facts and pertinent information, in event that I expected the student to be able to give a correct and appropriate response to the question.

Want the name of a current day TOP GUN Sniper to check it out with???

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Besides duty as a Marine Vietnam sniper, Craig Roberts was a sniper and helicopter pilot

for the Tulsa police department SWAT team until retirement, and now teaches snipers.

I'd say that is pretty current expertise.

You fail to mention what is commonly called "buck fever", which Roberts discusses in

detail. Before Oswald fired his shots, HOW MANY HUMAN BEINGS HAD HE PREVIOUSLY

KILLED? Firing at paper targets is easy compared to having a person's head in the

crosshairs.

Jack

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Tom,

I vaguely recall reading your posts over at Lancer a few years back. Your theories confused me then, and confuse me now. If I understand what you're saying (and that's no sure thing), you think that Oswald fired all the shots from the TSBD, but the Warren Report was a complete fraud. Okay....How can you think something is a total fraud while believing that their most important (and really only significant) conclusion is correct?

You can't be serious about the witnesses seeing the shots being fired from the TSBD. Those who reportedly saw someone in the sixth floor window saw more than one person, and neither looked like Oswald. Only youngster Amos Euins and Howard Brennan reported seeing a single man there. Brennan is the only witness who "idenfitied" Oswald but his testimony is ridiculous, and Ian Griggs has shown very clearly that he never made any such identification. This is old, old stuff, but the majority of witnesses reported shots from the Grassy Knoll area. It's obvious in all the photos and films taken right after the assassination, when witnesses and police officers are rushing up the knoll. Only Marion Baker, apparently, initially went to the TSBD. As for the shooting itself, again- old, old stuff. Oswald was never more than a mediocre marksman, and there was no credible evidence that he spent any time firing weapons as a civilian. His supposedly easy feat has never been duplicated, even by some of the top sharpshooters in the country. But then again, now Max Holland is claiming that Oswald had 11 seconds to fire his shots, so who knows? Maybe Oswald started firing at JFK when the motorcade was on Houston Street.

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Besides duty as a Marine Vietnam sniper, Craig Roberts was a sniper and helicopter pilot

for the Tulsa police department SWAT team until retirement, and now teaches snipers.

I'd say that is pretty current expertise.

You fail to mention what is commonly called "buck fever", which Roberts discusses in

detail. Before Oswald fired his shots, HOW MANY HUMAN BEINGS HAD HE PREVIOUSLY

KILLED? Firing at paper targets is easy compared to having a person's head in the

crosshairs.

Jack

Well then why not give him a call, present him with the true facts of the shooting sequence and then see if he is still willing to stick his foot in his mouth.

Why not tell him the FACTS about LHO's shooting ability????

Why not tell him the FACTS about the shooting sequence???

Why not tell him the FACTS about the vehicle speed?????

Why not tell him that he has 5.9 seconds from the first shot to the second Shot, and then see exactly what difference that makes.

If he still says how hard it is, then I have some young teenagers down here in S. Mississippi who can explain to him the lack of difficulty.

As to the "buck fever" aspect! I did not mention it because it is as much myth as is the multiple assassin scenario.

And for all that I know, LHO may have pulled the trigger on Evers as well as any number of the other unsolved civil rights shootings which occurred throughout Louisiana and Mississippi.

You operate under some misguided concept that everyone has some reluctance to shoot another human being.

NOT SO!

If one can feel lack of compassion for Bambi as they blow his head off, then the same can be felt for any human being who could be shot just as easily and with the same lack of compassion.

If the "buck fever" aspect as well as shooting paper targets only, held true, then it would not be too likely that very many of our military servicemen would have ever been able to shoot their enemy in wartime, due to "Buck Fever" and having shot only paper targets.

Grasp another straw Jack!

LHO TOTALLY possessed the shooting ability!

His Rangefire Qualification fully demonstrates that!

Distance wise, it was a simple shot.

The longest shot was only 295 feet.

LHO had fired in the upper ranges of expert at ranges of 200 ft./300 ft./ & 500 ft, when firing from a stable platform.

Time wise, he had approximately 5.9 seconds from the first shot to the secnd shot/aka Z312/313 headshot. Thereafter, the only difficulty rating was the "snap-shot" which occured after the Z313 head shot, as it was an almost immediate reload,aim,fire.

So tell us Jack: Exactly why was it that you accepted the WC's storyline that Z313 was the last shot fired?

Did you believe "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"?

Or better yet, have you actually even bothered to read much of what is stated throughout the WC and the statements of those witnesses who have all along told which shot was which?

Let's see! You believed and passed along the "SIX GROOVE BULLET", which is a crock of BS!

You believed an passed along the "SLING SWIVEL" story, when in fact it is merely the reversal of the sling swivel to the opposite side of the weapon, with the weapon tilted slightly when photographed.

Bill Miller has shot holes in 99.9% of everything which you come up with by the "AMAZING KRESGIN" method of photograpic analysis.

Stated simply Jack, you have been completely left behind by the bus and immediately became lost into the rabbit holes of multiple assassins, etc; due primarily to your own lack of conducting proper research; lack of thinking for yourself; accepting what others claimed without any verification; and who knows what other

aspects of impaired judgement.

Therefore, it would serve little purpose to attempt to debate facts with you, as you have no facts.

You, Personally, have obviously never conducted any separate and distinctive research and therefore, not unlike many, just jump onto any bandwagon which comes by that suits whatever your pre-concieved concept of the assassination is/was.

Lastly, even in your proclaimed expertise of photo analysis, you are so far behind that it is completely amazing to me that you can even convince yourself that you know something.

If you knew anything about photographic analysis, then you would know the importance of "Hard-Hat" man, as well as have long ago demonstrated as well as explained the "Road Sign" problem.

Not to mention the problems which surround the Altgens (Z255) photo as compared with the WC re-enactment photo.

All of which demonstrates to me personally that you can not even look at photographs and resolve the issues and conflicts which the photographs present.

So excuse me if I do not pay a great deal of attention to anything which you have to say on the subject matter of the JFK assassination.

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Tom,

Your long, rambling posts can't hide the fact that you know nothing about the basic facts of this case. Oswald "totally possessed the ability" as a shooter? You can make any statement you want, but expect others to take you to task when you say something as absurd as that. Oswald barely qualified, by one point, for the lowest of the three categories the Marines use to assess shooting skills. That was his last known assessment, and as there is no reason (or evidence) to suggest he practiced shooting regularly and thus became a much better shot by November of 1963, our best guess has to be that he was, in the words the Marine Corps. officially used to describe his ability in a letter to Mark Lane, "a rather poor shot." That is the state of the evidence.

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Tom,

Your long, rambling posts can't hide the fact that you know nothing about the basic facts of this case. Oswald "totally possessed the ability" as a shooter? You can make any statement you want, but expect others to take you to task when you say something as absurd as that. Oswald barely qualified, by one point, for the lowest of the three categories the Marines use to assess shooting skills. That was his last known assessment, and as there is no reason (or evidence) to suggest he practiced shooting regularly and thus became a much better shot by November of 1963, our best guess has to be that he was, in the words the Marine Corps. officially used to describe his ability in a letter to Mark Lane, "a rather poor shot." That is the state of the evidence.

Have you checked out his rangefire qualification records?

Did you understand them? (under the assumption that you at least researched the matter for yourself)

There is most certainly someone posting here that knows nothing!

Those who even have a desire to resolve which, hopefully will study up on USMC Marksmanship and then also spend the time to review the shooting ability of LHO at each of the 5 rangefire stations at which he had to fire during qualification.

Based on my review, I would be willing to put LHO's shooting at three of those stations up against the shooting ability of Craig Roberts and/or Carlos Hathcock during their initial rangefire qualification.

Lastly, the USMC is the only branch of the service that even requires the 500-yard rangefire qualification. One of the stations which LHO did poorly at from the unsupported position.

Had LHO been firing US Army Rangefire Qualification, his shooting would have placed him in the upper range of qualification as an EXPERT, and he would have worn the EXPERT rifleman's qualification badge. And, his record would have stated that he was an EXPERT marksman.

So, tell us all that you know about LHO's shooting ability and exactly what source you utilized.

Personally, I utilized his official rangefire qualification record.

Surely, you did not utilize one of those rumor/innuendo/hearsay/half-truth/BS stories as repeated around the campfire.

Mr. SPECTER - Based on what you see of Mr. Oswald's marksmanship capabilities from the Marine Corps records which you have before you, Major Anderson, how would you characterize him as a marksman?

Major ANDERSON - I would say that as compared to other Marines receiving the same type of training, that Oswald was a good shot, somewhat better than or equal to--better than the average let us say. As compared to a civilian who had not received this intensive training, he would be considered as a good to excellent shot.

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Tom,

It's a well-known fact that Oswald barely qualified for the lowest category of ranked shooters in the Marine Corps., by a single point, the last time he was tested. That's what I'm using as my evidence. Long before you or I thought of researching this case, critic Mark Lane got the Marine Corps. to asknowledge, in a widely published letter to him, that Oswald's score indicated "a rather poor shot." It doesn't get any clearer than that. What "records" are you talking about? If someone barely making the lowest grade of marksmen during his Marine Corps. duty was capable of a shooting feat that some of the country's highest-ranked sharpshooters never could duplicate, then imagine how skilled the marksmen in the middle ranking of Oswald's unit must have been! The testimony you quoted was easily offset by Oswald's fellow marine Nelson Delgado's WC testimony, in which he expressed his opinion that Oswald was a terrible shot, and was the subject of much ridicule among his buddies because of his constant "maggie's drawers." I suppose next you'll tell us all what a wonderful weapon the Mannlicher Carcano was. BTW, in as brief a post as possible, please explain your conspiracy theory/Oswald as lone assassin theory about the JFK assassination. I can't be the only one who's interested.

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Tom,

I vaguely recall reading your posts over at Lancer a few years back. Your theories confused me then, and confuse me now. If I understand what you're saying (and that's no sure thing), you think that Oswald fired all the shots from the TSBD, but the Warren Report was a complete fraud. Okay....How can you think something is a total fraud while believing that their most important (and really only significant) conclusion is correct?

You can't be serious about the witnesses seeing the shots being fired from the TSBD. Those who reportedly saw someone in the sixth floor window saw more than one person, and neither looked like Oswald. Only youngster Amos Euins and Howard Brennan reported seeing a single man there. Brennan is the only witness who "idenfitied" Oswald but his testimony is ridiculous, and Ian Griggs has shown very clearly that he never made any such identification. This is old, old stuff, but the majority of witnesses reported shots from the Grassy Knoll area. It's obvious in all the photos and films taken right after the assassination, when witnesses and police officers are rushing up the knoll. Only Marion Baker, apparently, initially went to the TSBD. As for the shooting itself, again- old, old stuff. Oswald was never more than a mediocre marksman, and there was no credible evidence that he spent any time firing weapons as a civilian. His supposedly easy feat has never been duplicated, even by some of the top sharpshooters in the country. But then again, now Max Holland is claiming that Oswald had 11 seconds to fire his shots, so who knows? Maybe Oswald started firing at JFK when the motorcade was on Houston Street.

Well!

Hope that you are young and have another 40+ years in which to chase mythological beings.

As for myself, I am getting pretty old, never chased such beings, and have no intention of doing so for 1 year or 40 more years.

so who knows? Maybe Oswald started firing at JFK when the motorcade was on Houston Street.

1. The first show was fired at what would be (according to known Z-film) frame 204/206 of the film.

2. The second shot was fired at approximately Z312, with impact at Z313.

3. The third shot was fired and impacted approximately 30 feet farther down Elm St. just as the Presidential limousine came to James Altgens position.

So, since I have no mouse in my pocket, I guess that leaves me as being the only one that knows.

(besides those of the US Secret Service, the FBI, the WC, and a few others)

Now, the ONLY problem being:

According to Z-film timing, there would not have been sufficient time for LHO/virtually anyone to achieve the Z312/313 shot and then fire the Carcano again in the approximately 1.9 seconds of elapsed time between the second shot aka 312/313 and the last shot down in front of James Altgens.

Therefore, this would leave only three alternatives:

1. The hypothesis is incorrect (which it is not)

2. There was in fact a second shooter from behind (which there was not)

3. There has been some "hanky panky" with the Z-film in which the Presidential Limousine was made to appear to be going faster than it actually was during this 30-foot distance from the headshot at Z312/313 to the Altgens position.

Take your pick, and I might add that only one has the capability of leading one to the final solution.

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Mr. SPECTER - What is your occupation or profession, sir?

Major ANDERSON - I am a major in the U.S. Marine Corps.

Mr. SPECTER - How long have you been in the Marine Corps.

Major ANDERSON - Twenty-six years 3 months.

Mr. SPECTER - Of what do your current duties consist?

Major ANDERSON - I am assistant head of the Marksmanship Branch, Headquarters Marine Corps.

Major ANDERSON - I have been working in marksmanship training for approximately 18 years. I am a distinguished rifle shot in the Marine Corps, master rifle shot, National Rifle Association of America.

Mr. SPECTER - Would you outline briefly the qualifications or tests which must be achieved in order to qualify as a distinguished shot?

Major ANDERSON - A man must have acquired a minimum of 30 points from winning medals in certain specified high-caliber matches. To win these points he must have placed among the top 10 percent of the nondistinguished shooters participating in the match. By winning a gold medal he can earn 10 points. By winning a silver medal he can earn eight points. By winning a bronze medal he can win six points.

Mr. SPECTER - And what qualifications must be displayed to obtain the classification as master of the National Rifle Association of America?

Major ANDERSON - You have to fire in a minimum number of National Rifle Association sponsored matches.

(Discussion off the record.)

Major ANDERSON - I want to correct the record.

Mr. SPECTER - Proceed to do so.

Major ANDERSON - I am a master with the pistol in the National Rifle Association. I am not classified with the rifle.

Mr. SPECTER - And does your classification as a distinguished marksman apply to the rifle?

Major ANDERSON - To the rifle, yes.

Major ANDERSON - In my opinion this is not a particularly difficult shot, and that Oswald had full capabilities to make this shot.

Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a document marked as Commission Exhibit No. 902, which characterizes what was believed to have been the shot which struck President Kennedy in the head at a distance from rifle in window to the President of 265.3 feet, with the photograph through rifle scope identified on the document being the view which the marksman had of the President at the time the President was struck in the head, and I ask you again for an opinion as to the ease or difficulty of that shot, taking into consideration the capabilities of Mr. Oswald as a marksman, evidenced by the Marine Corps documents on him.

Major ANDERSON - I consider it to be not a particularly difficult shot at this short range, and that Oswald had full capabilities to make such a shot.

(Discussion off the record.) Mr. SPECTER - May the record show that we have been off the record because Mr. Rankin stepped out, but we will proceed now to complete the deposition since he hasn't returned at this time.

Major Anderson, assume if you will that there were three shots fired by the assassin with a Mannlicher- Carcano rifle in a time span of 4.8 to 5.6 seconds. Would that speed of firing be within the capabilities of Mr. Oswald based upon the information as to his markmanship ability from the Marine Corps records?

Major ANDERSON - Yes, sir; it would.

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Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession or occupation, please?

Sergeant ZAHM. Master sergeant.

Mr. SPECTER. And in what branch of the service are you?

Sergeant ZAHM. U.S. Marine Corps.

Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been in the Marine Corps, Sergeant Zahm?

Sergeant ZAHM. Eighteen years.

Mr. SPECTER. Of what do your current duties consist?

Sergeant ZAHM. I am the NCO in charge of the Marksmanship Training Unit Armory at the Marksmanship Training Unit in the Weapons Training Battalion Marine Corps School, Quantico, Va.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you had an opportunity to examine the documents identified as Commission Exhibit No. 239 and Exhibit No. I to Major Anderson's deposition, Sergeant Zahm?

Sergeant ZAHM. Yes; I have.

Mr. SPECTER. Based on the tests of Mr. Oswald shown by those documents, how would you characterize his ability as a marksman?

Sergeant ZAHM. I would say in the Marine Corps he is a good shot, slightly above average, and as compared to the average male of his age throughout the civilian, throughout the United States, that he is an excellent shot.

Mr. SPECTER. So you would have expected a man of Oswald's capabilities at a distance of 265.3 feet to strike the President someplace aiming at him under those circumstances?

Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And within the range of where you would expect him to hit him, would that include the President's head?

Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And how would you characterize that shot with respect to whether it was difficult or not difficult?

Sergeant ZAHM. I consider it still an easy shot, a little more difficult from the President's body position and increase in distance of approximately 40 feet, but I still consider it an easy shot for a man with the equipment he had and his ability.

Mr. SPECTER. Assuming that there were three shots fired in a range of 4.8 to 5.6 seconds, would that speed of firing at that range indicated in the prior questions be within Mr. Oswald's capabilities as a marksman?

Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.

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Charlie & Chuck I agree.

IMO the alleged shooting feat is the key. I'm of the opinion that it was impossible.

In 43 years no test has come close to matching the alleged shooting feat.

I have read through most of Toms reply's on this subject and I still don't know what his opinion is on a lone shooter.

I have discussed the STB with Dave VP via 'E' mail I don't agree with his conclusions, however he explained his position to me clearly and I respect his opinion.

Tom any chance of a simple yes or no answer with regard to the lone gunman position?

Chris Brown.

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