Shooter, Radioman, Spotter

[Bill Miller]

And the next one, right after that, still came from the right but

not from as far back, it was up some. Still behind me, but not as

far back as the other one. And the next one that came was from the

grassy knoll and I saw the smoke coming through the trees, into the

air.... Fragments of his head ascended into the air, and from my

vision, focal point, the smoke and the fragments, you know,

everything met. I mean, there's no question in my mind what I saw or

what I heard.

Anyway, the first shot rang out. It was to the front of me,

and to the right of me, up high.

DalTex?

The second shot that I heard came

across from my right shoulder. By that time, the limousine had

already moved further down. And that shot came across my shoulder.

Peristyle Corner?

The 6th floor is to Rosemary's right and up high ... the 2nd floor of the Daltex would be lower and further back. As she is basically facing towards the Stemmons road sign after the first shot - any shot coming from low and from the direction of the Daltex building not 20 feet out into the street would sound as if it were going over Rosemary's right shoulder.

The point being is that the shrubs behind Rosemary Willis were short in height ... they are not spread apart as if someone was laying in them ... and they were also away from the wall allowing both Dorman and Zapruder a partial view over the top of them. So unless a garden nome carried out the assassination - there is simply no one in or behind the shrubs.

Bill Miller

[Lee Forman]

And the next one, right after that, still came from the right but

not from as far back, it was up some. Still behind me, but not as

far back as the other one. And the next one that came was from the

grassy knoll and I saw the smoke coming through the trees, into the

air.... Fragments of his head ascended into the air, and from my

vision, focal point, the smoke and the fragments, you know,

everything met. I mean, there's no question in my mind what I saw or

what I heard.

Anyway, the first shot rang out. It was to the front of me,

and to the right of me, up high.

DalTex?

The second shot that I heard came

across from my right shoulder. By that time, the limousine had

already moved further down. And that shot came across my shoulder.

Peristyle Corner?

The 6th floor is to Rosemary's right and up high ... the 2nd floor of the Daltex would be lower and further back. As she is basically facing towards the Stemmons road sign after the first shot - any shot coming from low and from the direction of the Daltex building not 20 feet out into the street would sound as if it were going over Rosemary's right shoulder.

That's your opinion. Unless I stand where Rosemary was standing and have some fire a few test rounds from the DalTex - which is way back behind her - I don't buy it.

The point being is that the shrubs behind Rosemary Willis were short in height ... they are not spread apart as if someone was laying in them ... and they were also away from the wall allowing both Dorman and Zapruder a partial view over the top of them. So unless a garden [g]nome carried out the assassination - there is simply no one in or behind the shrubs.

There's a nice gap there behind the hedge and the wall. I don't know about a 6' + man trying to make us of this location - I'll agree on that point. It would have had to have been someone shorter in stature.

In the meanwhile, it appears RB Cutler detailed Hicks alleged location on one of his plats. Using Roberdeau's plat, it seems that there may be a few possibles - since there are a few individuals he has detailed without identification. That being said, the area doesn't correspond to where Hicks should be, as per where Cutler has located him, on Roberdeau's plat. I drew a blue line, but too far down. It should have been at the first line on the plat - same issue - no one there on the plat. Can we find him in the z-footage?

Maybe you can answer a question for me Bill. Does the Dorman correlate to the Zapruder film? Why can't I find these people [Dorman frame] standing on the sidewalk in the z-film? This should be close to the moment of the headshot, as per Gary Mack. Is it the difference in perspective that is throwing me off? These people seem to be farther down Elm than the opening next to the fountain, right? Roberdeau doesn't detail them either.

- lee

Edited June 22, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Bill Miller]

That's your opinion. Unless I stand where Rosemary was standing and have some fire a few test rounds from the DalTex - which is way back behind her - I don't buy it.

Right, Lee ... that's what you need to do. ........ or you could talk to someone who has spoken to Rosemary like Gary Mack and see if you can hear more about what she meant when she said certain things.

There's a nice gap there behind the hedge and the wall. I don't know about a 6' + man trying to make us of this location - I'll agree on that point. It would have had to have been someone shorter in stature.

Yeh, like a garden nome for the shrubs aren't hardly 2' high.

Maybe you can answer a question for me Bill. Does the Dorman correlate to the Zapruder film? Why can't I find these people [Dorman frame] standing on the sidewalk in the z-film? This should be close to the moment of the headshot, as per Gary Mack. Is it the difference in perspective that is throwing me off? These people seem to be farther down Elm than the opening next to the fountain, right? Roberdeau doesn't detail them either.

- lee

The couple is seen below before the younger couple enters the walkway and blocks them from view.

(see below)

The woman (dark dress) is blocking the man (leaning forward in light colored jacket) who was with her from Zapruder's view IMO (see 2 red arrows). The old man is still seen under the red arrow on the right.

Bill Miller

Edited June 23, 2006 by Bill Miller

[John Dolva]

One of the first things that occured to me was a small child caught short in an emergency. On occasion a child out of nappies, is directed 'quick, it's ok, behind the bush over there'....Just a thought. I mention it because there appears to be a little child almost hidden by the two as they move towards the corner.

[Lee Forman]

One of the first things that occured to me was a small child caught short in an emergency. On occasion a child out of nappies, is directed 'quick, it's ok, behind the bush over there'....Just a thought. I mention it because there appears to be a little child almost hidden by the two as they move towards the corner.

Nice catch John.

No - this individual is present before the arrival of the motorcade.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

That's your opinion. Unless I stand where Rosemary was standing and have some fire a few test rounds from the DalTex - which is way back behind her - I don't buy it.

Right, Lee ... that's what you need to do. ........ or you could talk to someone who has spoken to Rosemary like Gary Mack and see if you can hear more about what she meant when she said certain things.

Sometimes you have to know what questions to ask sometimes in order to get the right answer.

There's a nice gap there behind the hedge and the wall. I don't know about a 6' + man trying to make us of this location - I'll agree on that point. It would have had to have been someone shorter in stature.

Yeh, like a garden nome for the shrubs aren't hardly 2' high.

It's more significant then perhaps you realize.

Maybe you can answer a question for me Bill. Does the Dorman correlate to the Zapruder film? Why can't I find these people [Dorman frame] standing on the sidewalk in the z-film? This should be close to the moment of the headshot, as per Gary Mack. Is it the difference in perspective that is throwing me off? These people seem to be farther down Elm than the opening next to the fountain, right? Roberdeau doesn't detail them either.

- lee

The couple is seen below before the younger couple enters the walkway and blocks them from view.

(see below)

The woman (dark dress) is blocking the man (leaning forward in light colored jacket) who was with her from Zapruder's view IMO (see 2 red arrows). The old man is still seen under the red arrow on the right.

Thank you for that - sincerely. So it was a difference in perspective. Any ideas as to who James Hicks might be, if he is supposed to be standing in that general area?

Bill Miller

[Lee Forman]

Bill,

As you claim to be a 'JFK Researcher,' I'm a bit nonplussed at your lack of interest.

Let's assume the hedge was 24" high in 1963, that would mean that this area of interest rises above 24 inches.

Let's speculate that the operation was compartmentalized. That means 'need to know,' individual cells, code names, aliases, planned patsies, etc. Let's just assume that what we know today is the result of some 'leaks.' In which case, it could be quite possible that one facet, one compartmentalized piece of the overall operation - has not had any occasion for 'someone talking' in 42 years. That would mean that the individuals present in Dealey Plaza, that may have provided info over the years, wouldn't even know about this part of the op - since thay had no insight.

Let's further assume that this individual has fired his underpowered FMJ - as per Camper's detail. He's left with a frangible round. Well - I like it for the occiput shot, which was followed on almost simultaneously by the front temple shot with another frangible. Maybe RB Cutler got that one right - a FMJ to Kennedy's throat from the picket fence shooter - and I am wrong for assuming it came from the Location Number 3. So then what you'd be left with is a shot using some form of explosive round to the back of Kennedy's head, in tandem with a shot coming from the front, using another explosive round. Both seeking to avoid by-standers, both seeking to avoid hitting Jackie, or anyone else in the vehicle. One result, as per other posts, a double explosion inside the head - resulting in some pieces of skull having hair attached [ref Vince Drain]. Also, I would imagine, some weakening of the back part of the skull, which was then further leveraged by the shot entering from the front.

The bizarre part about it might be that no one would be any wiser. Like a strange coincidence of fate. The shooter from the rear might be convinced that it was only his shot that did the deed - likewise the man behind the fence. That is what led me to believe the shot was timed via radio signal - but Camper doesn't have it that way. Camper has it as 'fire at will' - in which case, it would be more of a matter of the location of the by-standers and sheer irony.

Also worth considering - for a moment like this you would need something above the ordinary - extraordinary. If we consider that it was a Corsican that fired the frontal shot - these were some mean SOBs. The head vegetable - so what. We look and say, good chance on a Cuban for the TSBD and a rightwinger for the DalTex for example - well, Brigade 2056 is still very strong in the minds of many. So who would you place at the North Peristyle, if not one of these? That's something to think about.

- lee

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

As you claim to be a 'JFK Researcher,' I'm a bit nonplussed at your lack of interest.

Let's assume the hedge was 24" high in 1963, that would mean that this area of interest rises above 24 inches.

- lee

"Let's assume the hedge was 24" high in 1963, that would mean that this area of interest rises above 24 inches" .... what on earth does that mean?

Look, Lee ... I had an interest in what you said when I looked at a good Dorman and Zapruder film image and saw no one was where you were claiming them to be ... what more is there to discuss?

I wish I had my 'Death in Dealey Plaza' DVD with me because they show a good Dorman film and looking down on the area you are talking about there is nothing but a space between the wall and a perfectly intact knee high shrub.

Zapruder's elevated view also allows us to see over the shrubs. There is roughly less than 2' between those shrubs and the wall and his angle shows no one present there. What else is there to consider, Lee? That's like me saying it is possible that a sniper was standing by the tree on the South pasture and showing cross-hair views from that spot to offer effect, but when someone looks at the films showing that tree ... they find no one is there ... what other consideration is there to kick around when that happens???

Maybe we differ on this approach, but I don't consider spending a lot of time pondering the impossible as some form of a good research practice.

Bill Miller

Edited June 25, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Lee Forman]

Bill,

As you claim to be a 'JFK Researcher,' I'm a bit nonplussed at your lack of interest.

Let's assume the hedge was 24" high in 1963, that would mean that this area of interest rises above 24 inches.

- lee

"Let's assume the hedge was 24" high in 1963, that would mean that this area of interest rises above 24 inches" .... what on earth does that mean?

Look, Lee ... I had an interest in what you said when I looked at a good Dorman and Zapruder film image and saw no one was where you were claiming them to be ... what more is there to discuss?

I wish I had my 'Death in Dealey Plaza' DVD with me because they show a good Dorman film and looking down on the area you are talking about there is nothing but a space between the wall and a perfectly intact knee high shrub.

Zapruder's elevated view also allows us to see over the shrubs. There is roughly less than 2' between those shrubs and the wall and his angle shows no one present there. What else is there to consider, Lee? That's like me saying it is possible that a sniper was standing by the tree on the South pasture and showing cross-hair views from that spot to offer effect, but when someone looks at the films showing that tree ... they find no one is there ... what other consideration is there to kick around when that happens???

Maybe we differ on this approach, but I don't consider spending a lot of time pondering the impossible as some form of a good research practice.

Bill Miller

Seated flat, I measure 36" from the floor to the top of my head. I stand 6'4" normally. I still see the guy, even in the frame you have posted.

But don't trouble any more about it - I have some stuff to work on - no point in arguing it further for now.

- lee

[Bill Miller]

Seated flat, I measure 36" from the floor to the top of my head. I stand 6'4" normally. I still see the guy, even in the frame you have posted.

Lee, you think you see someone, but look down on the same spot in the Dorman film and no one is there - sorry!

Bill Miller

[Lee Forman]

Seated flat, I measure 36" from the floor to the top of my head. I stand 6'4" normally. I still see the guy, even in the frame you have posted.

Lee, you think you see someone, but look down on the same spot in the Dorman film and no one is there - sorry!

Bill Miller

You may be 100% correct Bill - for the moment when the area was initially panned over by Dorman. However, there just isn't sufficient film coverage of the area to tell what occurred there - which is why I believe Rosemary may hold the key.

Is it possible that the individual running as seen in Dorman, and from the rear in Bell film, is the same as seen later in Zapruder in this corner location? If the answer is yes, I am only one step closer - sadly. As I may have suggested before, I am only seeking to back into it. The coverage we have available is fairly useless.

My hard drive has a serious fault, and I have to ship off my pc for repairs - so I don't plan to have anything more to say for awhile here. C-YA.

- lee

[Maarten Coumans]

Hi Everyone,

Proud I present to you my first post.

This is in particular for Lee and his map on page 1, and location 1 shooter, spotter etc.

To me this position behind those branches, was my focus of attention. And like to tell what I think.

Here is my theory:

As the limo turned onto Elm the old man, pictured under the right red arrow on page 18 by Bill Miller, takes his hat off (see lower for more). Then "suddenly" frames disappear and Kennedy is turned to his right.

I believe this is when the whole stuff started, the more because Rosemary Willis definately showed reactions in the frames after.

Back to position 1 at this moment. See this pic.

And:

I have added 2 red lines showing where I can possibly see a bullet-entry coming from the left, flat trajectory.

The bullets came to a halt on top of Kennedy's shoulder, next to one another. Not visible in X-rays.

A further clue of a shooter from position 1 (Lee-map), comes from the cracked wind shield, and the damaged rearview-mirror-holder. See http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/limo.htm

I have made a picture to illustrate what I mean:

If the bullet came from Kennedy's direction, it would leave a bulletspray mainly directed downward. So can't be. Furthermore, look at the hole. The bullet drilled itself under an angle in the windshield, through fraction, changed a bit direction. And I can clearly picture the front of the bullet putted into the windshield. The back being twisted off, through torque. This way I like to match CE350 (windshield damage), with CE567 (front part), together with CE569 (as being base from same bullet), with the mirror damage. CE569 has some black smutches on it. Plastic from mirror holder? Perhaps wishfull thinking.

A couple of things made me associate Kennedy's assassination, with an attempts on DeGaulle in '62 as portrayed in Fred Zinnemann's "Day of the Jackall" (not with Bruce Willis, not at all!) at the beginning of the movie. According to Wikipedea this is a good reenactment of that hit. So looking for simularities may be a good idea.

First of all, accusations (propaganda etc), the set-up. The man taking his hat off. A police car waiting at the underpass, no matter what they say. "We were looking/shouting up the overpass, heard a shot, as we turned saw a piece of contrete spatter up from that first shot" (Superman, eyes in the back of his head). The bullet lands before the sound could reach them. What about reaction time. Rate of turn. The people in Deally plaza were unsure, yet the furthest away had already reacted before it happened. And that is it precise. They knew. Forget looking up, no way. They checked what to do. Block the road or not. Forcing Kennedy back, or to stop. Have someone walk up, and blow his brains from close-up. Could even have been a passenger in the white police-car (we will never know). Speculation of course. But in one of the Willis pics you can see a dark-skinned man reaching under his jacket halfway Elm (Samo Samo). Later he sits next to umbrellaman on sidewalk. Suppose shooter 1 shoots the driver halfway Elm. Limo stops in stead of crawling on Elm. This dark man takes 2 steps. Bang Bang close up. Is arrested. Pleads insanity, or whatever Hinckley has got. And Oliver North style gets a fat promotion. Well taken care for in prison. Or accidentally gets lynched by recht-winged activists. Reversing civil rights legislation. And damaging MLK, if not implying.

Further more, the name Permindex is often mentioned on both attacks. So was Frank Sturgis, according to James Files, head of the SAO (Secret Army Organisation) and in Deally Plaza. In France they had OAS (Organisation de l'Armée Secrète) plotting against DeGaulle. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuh, who writes this stuff.

I firmly believe the backyard foto's are an offspring of the foto taken in 1914 at Schiller's fotoshop of one of Franz-Ferdinand's assassins, in a similar pose as Oswald, including socialist newspaper. Was on a 30 min doc on assassinations on the Discovery Channell (didn't tape it, cannot find on Internet). A later episode was about Kennedy.

As the limo emerges from the underpass in Dallas, it already had passed the white police-car on the right- hand side.

His normal job would be to unblock the roads ahead, not next, or behind the president. Security glitsch no: ????.

How many security things did go right that day? Anybody? Any body? Any? None of the shooters got caught. We can still read that LHO shot Kennedy, while there is no proof whatsoever. Let allone the Ruski's. Castro would not dare, he would have been bombed (nuked) back to the stone-age. It has got to have a domestic origin. Plenty of enemies in the USA.

I wanted to keep this short...mmmm.

Hope you enjoyed reading, and found something to think about, wheather egree or not.

Gr. Maarten

Edited July 18, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Maarten Coumans]

Referring to possible bullets on the shoulder, and a possible shooter on location 1.

I would like to add to the picture showing the 2 possible bullet trajectories leading to the right shoulder. These bullets must have been modified, less gunpowder. The reason is that the path is way too short to lose that much energy, to stop at the shoulder. From assassin's point of view: At that distance, it would not make much difference for aiming. Further, it is a waste of energy, an exiting bullet. Leaves an exit wound, -evidence. And might hit a bystander, blowing the whole cover. As James Tague's wound complicated the Warren Commission's Single Bullet Conclusion.

I came across this X-ray, where I think I see a ghost image of the bullets on the shoulder, appearing as one.

I see it a little to the left of the arrow.

I would expect sollid objects as bullets to appear more clearly on X-ray.The bones come out fine. And they are less dense, but closer to the plate.

But if they are bullets, they may well have been the source for WC-CE399 and HSCA CE-399.

And a beautifull explanation why they were in such fine condition, yet fired.

I have seen a shot in ballistics gel (same density as human) and the bullet curles the fron t back, and travelled at least twice the distance as the distance neck-shoulder, as described earlier. And that was completely in the gel. The x-ray (potential) bullets only go through the surface, and perhaps some muscle. My guess, less dense, so less resistance. So should exit. And hit a bystander, unless well prepared.

Well, according to James Files. He was ordered, 2 weeks in advance, to have Wolfman manufacture special rounds for his Fireball.

According to him they changed the route at the last moment. Johnny got info from Ruby in Fort Worth. Back in Dallas Chuck takes James to the Plaza, and is asked the question. They decide on what location best for James, and what weapon. Has the loads already prepared. Would be sloppy to walk into a gunstore on the 22nd etc. Look how much effort James did to get into position. And the others must have done.

These guys are pro's, well prepared. So reducing powder in some cartridges, preparing fragible bullets, faking ID's . Is not hard at all, for these kind of guys.

Maarten.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Maarten Coumans

[Robert Howard]

Referring to possible bullets on the shoulder, and a possible shooter on location 1.

I would like to add to the picture showing the 2 possible bullet trajectories leading to the right shoulder. These bullets must have been modified, less gunpowder. The reason is that the path is way too short to lose that much energy, to stop at the shoulder. From assassin's point of view: At that distance, it would not make much difference for aiming. Further, it is a waste of energy, an exiting bullet. Leaves an exit wound, -evidence. And might hit a bystander, blowing the whole cover. As James Tague's wound complicated the Warren Commission's Single Bullet Conclusion.

I came across this X-ray, where I think I see a ghost image of the bullets on the shoulder, appearing as one.

I see it a little to the left of the arrow.

I would expect sollid objects as bullets to appear more clearly on X-ray.The bones come out fine. And they are less dense, but closer to the plate.

But if they are bullets, they may well have been the source for WC-CE399 and HSCA CE-399.

And a beautifull explanation why they were in such fine condition, yet fired.

I have seen a shot in ballistics gel (same density as human) and the bullet curles the fron t back, and travelled at least twice the distance as the distance neck-shoulder, as described earlier. And that was completely in the gel. The x-ray (potential) bullets only go through the surface, and perhaps some muscle. My guess, less dense, so less resistance. So should exit. And hit a bystander, unless well prepared.

Well, according to James Files. He was ordered, 2 weeks in advance, to have Wolfman manufacture special rounds for his Fireball.

According to him they changed the route at the last moment. Johnny got info from Ruby in Fort Worth. Back in Dallas Chuck takes James to the Plaza, and is asked the question. They decide on what location best for James, and what weapon. Has the loads already prepared. Would be sloppy to walk into a gunstore on the 22nd etc. Look how much effort James did to get into position. And the others must have done.

These guys are pro's, well prepared. So reducing powder in some cartridges, preparing fragible bullets, faking ID's . Is not hard at all, for these kind of guys.

Maarten.

The most vital thing I had to do was to create a signal plan for the operation, something that took me weeks to complete. The signal plan is the centerpiece of all

secure communication operations. It tells you what frequencies to use and when to use them. We, for example, transmitted and received on two frequencies to

make enemy interception more difficult. The signal plan also tells you in what sequence the frequencies are used, when they change and how often. In addition,

it determines what ciphers will be employed. We used an agency five-letter cipher code that is even in today almost impossible to break because it is based on

random groupings of letters, each of which is only used once. - Felix Rodriguez

[Robert Howard]

Reference has been made numerous time over the years to the gunman who is seen in one of the series of photographs taken as the motorcade, after entering Stemmon's Freeway has a car with photographers taking photos of the Kennedy limo, with a building in the background, in which a man with a rifle is standing on top of a building on the opposite side of Stemmon's Freeway. For years the only photograph I was aware of was in one of Penn Jones Forgive My Grief books. Then I discovered that Robert Groden

has what I am almost certain is the same photograph, where the sign on the building is not blurred.

If I am correct, the image in The Killing Of A President on page 45, is the same building as the blurred image in Penn Jones book, the sign states Corham.

If, I am correct this building is the Corham Artificial Flower Co., 1645 Stemmons Freeway. Telephone RI1-1073....

This has not been established beyond a shadow of a doubt, but ID'ing a building with an unidentified man with a rifle is still very important.