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Shooter, Radioman, Spotter


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I get your point - but the shirt looks blue to me.

And so did Hudson's white cap when Zapruder filmed it from behind.

You are assuming that was Hudson. In your opinion that was Hudson.

Like this - correct?

I realize we've gone through this before - I just can't reconcile it myself. Seems to me as I stated before, we should see Hudson lying on the sidewalk in the Moorman. If the Moorman represents the front temple entry, which I believe it does, the occiput shot having been only a split second before, the final shot to the side of the head comes only within seconds after - which doesn't give Hudson time to be listening to his companion, who is already lying down.

Perhaps we can take this up elsewhere, or through email. To me the folks on the stairs are the indicator for alteration in the Moorman Polaroid, and Muchmore and Nix. That's just my opinion.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it.

Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a renactment of the scene.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.

Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?

Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?

Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.

Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot -

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do

Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

...

Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away. Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street.

- lee

post-675-1148503853_thumb.jpg

post-675-1148504900_thumb.jpg

Edited by Lee Forman
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You are assuming that was Hudson. In your opinion that was Hudson.

Like this - correct?

I realize we've gone through this before - I just can't reconcile it myself. Seems to me as I stated before, we should see Hudson lying on the sidewalk in the Moorman. If the Moorman represents the front temple entry, which I believe it does, the occiput shot having been only a split second before, the final shot to the side of the head comes only within seconds after - which doesn't give Hudson time to be listening to his companion, who is already lying down.

Perhaps we can take this up elsewhere, or through email. To me the folks on the stairs are the indicator for alteration in the Moorman Polaroid, and Muchmore and Nix. That's just my opinion.

Lee, some of the things you say are so off-the-wall that there is little hope of you ever understanding the JFK assassination ... and that is my opinion. William Hudson, Emmett's son, told me that his father showed the Moorman photo to countless family and friends over the years as he claimed the guy in the white cap is him. The idea that the Moorman photo, which was still in Mary's pocket when she took it out and allowed it to be filmed not 30 minutes after the shooting shows Emmett still standing on the steps. To suggest that Mary's photo has been altered in any way within the first 30 minutes of the assassination and while still in her possession, let alone to tamper with Hudson's image is insane ... and that is also my opinion. Maybe this link will help you in some way ... http://www.jfklancer.com/miller/mysteryman.html

By the time that Towner took his photograph after the assassination - Hudson is on the ground. I believe (from memory) that image is on page 54 of Groden's book "TKOAP".

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Hudson Look alike wearing a dark colored cap. ?

What made you believe that was Emmett Hudson, Robin? That is not Hudson. Hudson can be seen in the Nix and Muchmore films wearing a light colored cap. Furthermore, Hudson had thick white bushy hair ... also visible in Groden's book.

Bill

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"Miller" adroitly avoids the obvious by tap dancing around it.

Forget the two men in the back of the pickup and who they were.

Based on Cancellare, the bed of the pickup has been altered in

Zapruder. THE TRUCK ITSELF IS DIFFERENT. Why?

Jack

PS...also the lamppost casts a shadow in Zapruder, but not

in Cancellare. Explain that.

Oh...and what is that the driver is holding out the window

in Cancellare?

Edited by Jack White
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"Miller" adroitly avoids the obvious by tap dancing around it.

Forget the two men in the back of the pickup and who they were.

Based on Cancellare, the bed of the pickup has been altered in

Zapruder. THE TRUCK ITSELF IS DIFFERENT. Why?

Jack

Jack, on your best day you cannot BS me on my worst day.

Here is your riduculous and somewhat dishonest alteration claim concerning the truck's bed. (see below)

post-1084-1148518020_thumb.jpg

Here is the same truck, but rather than use a blurred frame - I offer a better frame of choice. Only a bone head would find it acceptable to use a film frame of poor quality to try and make an accurate observation.

post-1084-1148518192_thumb.jpg

It is common knowledge how motion and/or panning blur can effect how things are seen on film. Not only have you (JACK) been told this before many times, you consistently and purposely bypass good images to use the more pitiful film frames to make your idiotic claims. The deception doesn't appear to lie with the Zapruder film, but rather with your attempts to make things appear differently than they really are in order to salvage your credibility concerning the Zapruder film being altered. Below are some Zapruder frames showing different degrees of blurring between them ... note how the truck bed becomes clear and then fades out from normal blurring.

post-1084-1148518236_thumb.gif

Jack, Your dishonestly only exceeds your stupidity.

Bill Miller

PS...also the lamppost casts a shadow in Zapruder, but not

in Cancellare. Explain that.

Considering that all solid objects in the Plaza at that time of day should cast shadows ... maybe its your Cancellare photo that has been altered! post-1084-1148519536_thumb.gif

Edited by Bill Miller
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"Miller" adroitly avoids the obvious by tap dancing around it.

Forget the two men in the back of the pickup and who they were.

Based on Cancellare, the bed of the pickup has been altered in

Zapruder. THE TRUCK ITSELF IS DIFFERENT. Why?

Jack

PS...also the lamppost casts a shadow in Zapruder, but not

in Cancellare. Explain that.

Oh...and what is that the driver is holding out the window

in Cancellare?

The bed has not been altered, the difference you see is that the SIDEWALK is visable in the Zapruder frame due the the higher camera angle.

The lampost also cast a shadow in Chacellare, you can see it as it crosses curb. You can't see the shadow on the street BECAUSE THE CAMERA ANGLE IS TOO LOW! Photo 101 stuff here Jack and you get a failing grade.

What is the driver holding out the window...perhaps his ELBOW!

But perhaps you MIGHT be able to fool the sheep....

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Once again you prove that HONESTY is not your strong suit.

You are a disgrace to photographers everywhere....

One should give Jack credit where credit is do ... after all, it is not easy trying to find the right frame that will mask the sidewalk from being easily detectable. Then if you cannot get the right effect once you find your target frame ... you simply crop out the parts you don't want people to see. Then 'lo' and behold' you have another Zfilm alteration claim to offer to your flock.

post-1084-1148568703_thumb.jpg

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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What sidewalk?

Jack

Yeh, right Jack ... crop off the front of the truck so no one can see the sidewalk. Well, here it is again ...

post-1084-1148539364_thumb.jpg

Bill Miller

If we could dispense with the allegations of dishonesty and stupidity this thread might progress a little further.

On the issue of the pickup truck and the visibility of the sidewalk, I'm not so sure it's cut and dried. Bill, on your better frame of the Z-film it looks to me like the middle section of the 'sidewalk' ie. the middle of your three yellow arrows, might actually be the bonnet of the truck, looking somewhat shiny. It may be an illusion and I'm no photographic expert, but crop or no crop, it's a matter of interpretation. From these images, I can't tell for sure what it is. The 'sidewalk' may be partially visible but seems to lack continuity, IMO.

Edited by Mark Stapleton
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On the issue of the pickup truck and the visibility of the sidewalk, I'm not so sure it's cut and dried. Bill, on your better frame of the Z-film it looks to me like the middle section of the 'sidewalk' ie. the middle of your three yellow arrows, might actually be the bonnet of the truck, looking somewhat shiny. It may be an illusion and I'm no photographic expert, but crop or no crop, it's a matter of interpretation. From these images, I can't tell for sure what it is. The 'sidewalk' may be partially visible but seems to lack continuity, IMO.

Mark, you appear tp have missed my point altogether. It is not a matter of interpreting one single frame, but rather comparing that frame to the ones before and after it which may be clearer, thus eliminating unnecessay and poor interpretations that are misleading. This does not take an expert to do. Jack knows all of this and it is his attempt to bypass the cleaner frames to use a blurred ones to make this alteration claim is what I and others come down on him about.

The clip should be self-explanatory ...

Bill

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I appreciate "Miller" proving my point about his "sidewalk" with

his animation. As the big truck approaches from the rear, it goes

behind the pickup, BLOCKING THE VIEW OF THE SIDEWALK but

not the back of the pickup bed! Thanks!

Jack

Only the visually or mentally impaired will dispute this.

Jack

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