Steve Thomas Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Three men came to the home of Sylvia Odio. Two were Hispanic and the third she identified as Lee Oswald. The two Hispanics used the names Leopoldo and Angelo. In a May 5, 1964 letter from SS Agent Rowley to J. Lee Rankin, Rowley describes a 4/30/64 interview SS Inspector Kelley had with Reverend Walter McChann. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...341&relPageId=2 In this letter, Rowley said that at Kelley's urging, McChann called Sylvia Odio to get the names of the men who visited her home. According to McChann, while she could not identify Leopoldo, she identified the second Hispanic man as someone named Eugenio Cisneros. see page 6 of this letter. I didn't know if this was widely known. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Three men came to the home of Sylvia Odio. Two were Hispanic and the third she identified as Lee Oswald.The two Hispanics used the names Leopoldo and Angelo. In a May 5, 1964 letter from SS Agent Rowley to J. Lee Rankin, Rowley describes a 4/30/64 interview SS Inspector Kelley had with Reverend Walter McChann. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...341&relPageId=2 In this letter, Rowley said that at Kelley's urging, McChann called Sylvia Odio to get the names of the men who visited her home. According to McChann, while she could not identify Leopoldo, she identified the second Hispanic man as someone named Eugenio Cisneros. see page 6 of this letter. I didn't know if this was widely known. Steve Thomas Hmm, interesting, thanks for that Steve..I had always understood that Ms Odio claimed not to know the identity of any of the men who visited her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Three men came to the home of Sylvia Odio. Two were Hispanic and the third she identified as Lee Oswald.The two Hispanics used the names Leopoldo and Angelo. In a May 5, 1964 letter from SS Agent Rowley to J. Lee Rankin, Rowley describes a 4/30/64 interview SS Inspector Kelley had with Reverend Walter McChann. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...341&relPageId=2 In this letter, Rowley said that at Kelley's urging, McChann called Sylvia Odio to get the names of the men who visited her home. According to McChann, while she could not identify Leopoldo, she identified the second Hispanic man as someone named Eugenio Cisneros. see page 6 of this letter. I didn't know if this was widely known. Steve Thomas Interesting Steve - as per NARA [7 hits, 6 of them 1961].. CISNEROS ROGELIO AKA EUGENIO DIAZ ROGELIO CISNEROS, NAME DE GUERRE EUGENIO, PACIN ORIGINATOR : CIA FROM : [No From] TO : NO. 77 TITLE : MFR: DR. MIRO CONSIDERS SUPPORT OF EUGENIO (CISNEROS) OF MRP TO BE DANGEROUS. DATE : 11/28/1961 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : MENDOZA CLASSIFICATION : SECRET RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/14/1998 COMMENTS : JFK64-67 : F9 : 1998.10.14.07:49:29:750128 : CABLE AND INFORMATION REPORT: SUBJECT - 1. UNIFICATION OF THE MRP WITH THE ALPHA 66 AND THE SFNE. 2. POSSIBLE ACTION IN CUBA BY ALPHA 66 AND SFNE MRP = Movimiento Revolucionario del Pueblo More on the MRP and it's merge with Alpha 66 and SFNE [El Segundo Frente Nacional del Escambray - The Second National Front of the Escambray] here... http://cuban-exile.com/doc_351-375/doc0358.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I can't figure out why the subject of that one document would be 'Mendoza.' ORIGINATOR : CIA FROM : [No From] TO : NO. 77 TITLE : MFR: DR. MIRO CONSIDERS SUPPORT OF EUGENIO (CISNEROS) OF MRP TO BE DANGEROUS. DATE : 11/28/1961 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : MENDOZA CLASSIFICATION : SECRET RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/14/1998 COMMENTS : JFK64-67 : F9 : 1998.10.14.07:49:29:750128 http://www.jfklancer.com/mobconnections.html In March 1961, the State Department pressured FRD leaders to accept the Movimento Revolutionario del Pueblo (MRP), headed by Manuel Ray Rivero, into the FRD. The inclusion of Ray's group into the alliance of Cuban exiles was reportedly also "terribly important to the White House," which wanted to broaden the political base of the FRD. In an effort to attract Ray and his group into the FRD, ... Dr Jose Miro Cardona was elected its new president. Dr Miro Cardona was a former Havana jurist who broke with Castro after serving him as his first Prime Minister. [vol 10, pg 57] ....[Manuel Ray Rivero had been appointed by Castro as] Minister of Public Works in February 1959. .... Ray's tenure in Castro's government was short lived. He was relieved of his official position in November 1959. No definite reason for this sudden move has been documented but, according to one source, Ray did not leave Castro because of ideological or policy discrepancies, but rather because of a personality clash with Castro's Miniter of Labor, who almost shot Ray after a stomy cabinet meeting. .... For whatever reason, Ray did permit his name to be associated with the Castro regime until May 1960, when he formed the Revolutionary Movement of the People (MRP). .... Having waited until May 1960 to organize his resistance group, Ray was criticized as being suspiciously tardy to the anti-Castro movement. Charges of "Fidelism without Fidel" were made against him and the MRP because of their leftist ideologies. .... A [uS Government] officer who met with Ray in November 1960 noted that his political posture was "doubtful" as far as US Government acceptance was concerned, and a further assessment portrayed Ray as so far "left in his thinking that he would be as dangerous to US interests as Castro." Some prominent Cubans also expressed negative opinions about Ray, among them Dr Jose Miro Cardona, president of the FRD. Miro opposed Ray because he considered his program too Marxist and declared Ray was bitterly anti-American as well as probably totalitarian in his thinking. .... Although aware of his controversial political philosophy, attempts were continued to recruit Ray to join the FRD, because the White House and State Department pushed for his inclusion. Ray received full operational approval as a "political asset" on February 7, 1961. [ibid, pp 137-138] [unquote] After the formation of this new alliance, Kennedy now approved the invasion of Cuba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I can't figure out why the subject of that one document would be 'Mendoza.'ORIGINATOR : CIA FROM : [No From] TO : NO. 77 TITLE : MFR: DR. MIRO CONSIDERS SUPPORT OF EUGENIO (CISNEROS) OF MRP TO BE DANGEROUS. DATE : 11/28/1961 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : MENDOZA CLASSIFICATION : SECRET RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/14/1998 COMMENTS : JFK64-67 : F9 : 1998.10.14.07:49:29:750128 http://www.jfklancer.com/mobconnections.html In March 1961, the State Department pressured FRD leaders to accept the Movimento Revolutionario del Pueblo (MRP), headed by Manuel Ray Rivero, into the FRD. The inclusion of Ray's group into the alliance of Cuban exiles was reportedly also "terribly important to the White House," which wanted to broaden the political base of the FRD. In an effort to attract Ray and his group into the FRD, ... Dr Jose Miro Cardona was elected its new president. Dr Miro Cardona was a former Havana jurist who broke with Castro after serving him as his first Prime Minister. [vol 10, pg 57] ....[Manuel Ray Rivero had been appointed by Castro as] Minister of Public Works in February 1959. .... Ray's tenure in Castro's government was short lived. He was relieved of his official position in November 1959. No definite reason for this sudden move has been documented but, according to one source, Ray did not leave Castro because of ideological or policy discrepancies, but rather because of a personality clash with Castro's Miniter of Labor, who almost shot Ray after a stomy cabinet meeting. .... For whatever reason, Ray did permit his name to be associated with the Castro regime until May 1960, when he formed the Revolutionary Movement of the People (MRP). .... Having waited until May 1960 to organize his resistance group, Ray was criticized as being suspiciously tardy to the anti-Castro movement. Charges of "Fidelism without Fidel" were made against him and the MRP because of their leftist ideologies. .... A [uS Government] officer who met with Ray in November 1960 noted that his political posture was "doubtful" as far as US Government acceptance was concerned, and a further assessment portrayed Ray as so far "left in his thinking that he would be as dangerous to US interests as Castro." Some prominent Cubans also expressed negative opinions about Ray, among them Dr Jose Miro Cardona, president of the FRD. Miro opposed Ray because he considered his program too Marxist and declared Ray was bitterly anti-American as well as probably totalitarian in his thinking. .... Although aware of his controversial political philosophy, attempts were continued to recruit Ray to join the FRD, because the White House and State Department pushed for his inclusion. Ray received full operational approval as a "political asset" on February 7, 1961. [ibid, pp 137-138] [unquote] After the formation of this new alliance, Kennedy now approved the invasion of Cuba. If this isn't deserving of further study, then I don't know what would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Quick search under the name CISNEROS ROGELIO and this popped up.. 266)In a Miami press interview on July23, 1962,Manuel RayRivero announced the formation of the Cuban RevolutionaryJunta(JURE), an anti-Castro Cuban exile group designed tounite all thepopular splintered factions outside Cuba into an effectiveworkingorganizations.(1) Other key leaders involved in the new organizationincluded Felipe Pazos, RaulChibas, Rogelio Cisneros, Ramon Bar-quin and Justo Carrillo. (,,?) Although Ray felt the Cuban Revolu-tionary Council was no longer effective, heattempted to receive finan-cial assistance from it until JURE gainedmornentum.(3)(267) As its opening promotional salvo, JURE issued a "Declara-tion of Principles." It called forfree elections, the restoration of hu-man rights and social justice,new economic development programsand agrarian reform, breakingrelations with the Soviet bloc, restora-tion of legitimate property, proscription ofthe Communist Party andrelease of political prisoners. (4).(268) Rays group was considered an"autonomous" anti-CastroCuban group by the CIA. (5) The concept of autonomousoperationswas conceived byWalter Rostow, State Department counsel. (6) Ros-tow proposed a "tracktwo" approach to Cuban operations to parallelregular CIA-controlled Cuban teams.('f) This approach would enablefinancial aid, advice and guidance toCuban leaders such as Ray.(8)Autonomous operations were approvedJune1963 .(9)(269)The rule under which the operationsfunctioned set forth thefollowing guidelines1. Operations to be executed exclusively by Cuban nationals dedi-cated to the idea that theoverthrow of the Castro/Communist re-gime must be accomplished by Cubans inside and outside Cubaworkingin concert.2.If the effort to overthrow theCuban regime became too costlyin human lives, the United States would withdraw financial sup-port and would not consider resumption at any future date.3.All operations had to be mounted outside the territory of theUnited States.4. If ever charged with complicity. the U.S . Government wouldpublicly deny any participation in the groups activities.5. U.S. presence and direct participation would bekept at anabsolute minimum. An experienced liaison officer would be assignedto each groupto providegeneral advice, funds andmaterial support.6. No fixed time. schedule would be given to these operations.(10)(270) Possibly because of this loosely structured control over JURE,the clay-to-day activities of thegroup were closely monitored. A JT-REmember, for instance, was in frequent contact with anindividualand supplied him with a variety of confidential information aboutJURE. This source provided informationon Ray's meeting withAttorney General Robert F. Kennedy in September 1963,(11) Ray's................... nother episode on May 1964 compounded JURE's problems.Rogelio Cisneros lead obligated $50,000 of JURE money to an ElMonte, Calif., arms manufacturing company for weapons to beshipped to Florida. (514 The Revenue Division of the Treasury De-partnient considered a raid on the arms company.(55)(:383) At this point, there began a general disintegration of JUREmembership. (56) Rogelio Cisneros announced in August 1964 that hewas resigning from the organization. He contended Ray was incapableof directing both political and military activities.(57) Then anotherkey leader, Carlos Zarraga, resigned in September.(284) JURE received $75,000 during the period of October to De-cember 31, 1964. The money was intended to underwrite JURE's relo-cation of its activities outside the United States. (58) Ray's liaisonofficer noted at the time : "If Ray is successful in Cuba, he will notneed our help ; if he is not, our help won't do much good. He is honestand at least lie assumes it will be largely spent for thepurpose he wantsto achieve. Whatever May may ever say, he was treated the way heasked to be treated. We have played the game in a manner beyondreproach." (59)(2S5) JUREcontinued in existence until August 1968 (60) but wasrelatively ineffective in its latter years.(61)Submitted byGAETONJ.FONZI,Investigator.ELIZABETHJ.PALMER,Pl esearehe r. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 4 80REFERENCES(1) CIA cable, July 25, 1962.(2) CIA report, September 1962.(3) CIA dispatch, July 11, 1962.(4) Junta Revolucionaria Cabana, Declaration of Principles.(5) CIA memo.(6) Ibid.(7) Ibid.(8) Ibid .(9) Ibid.(10) Ibid.(11) CIA cable, Sept. 11, 1963.(12) CIA cable, Oct. 11, 1963.(13) CIA dispatch, Oct. 21, 1963.(14)CIA cable, Jan. 31, 1964.(15) CIA cable, Mar. 17, 1964.(16) CIA cable, Apr. 26.19G4.(17) CIA dispatch, July 22, 1963.(18) CIA cable, Aug. 15, 1962.(19) FBI file No. 97-4546, sec. 1-correlation summary,May 30, 1963, HouseSelect Committee on Assassinations, p.4 (JFK Document 005990) .(20) Ibid., item 2, p. 4.(21) U.S. Army Intelligence Report, item 9, FBI file No. 105-114543-5, JURE,No. 2215 217, Sept. 24, 1962, Subject : "JUREestablished--classified SECRET,"House Select Committee on Assassinations(JFK Document 009974) .(22) Ibid.(23) FBI file No. 10.5-114543, vol. 1. serial 46, p. 12, House SelectCommittee onAssassinations (JFK Document 009974) .(24) CIA memo, Aug. 2, 1963.(25) Ibid.(26) CIA memo, Aug. 23.1963.(27) CIA cable, Dec. 3, 1963.(28) Ibid.(291 CIA cable, Sept. 11, 1963.(30) CIA cable, Nov. 18, 1963.( .41) CIA dispatch, Dec. 13,1963.(32) Ibid.13.4) CIA cable, Dec. 3.1963.(34) Ibid.(3.5) CIA memo, Dec. 13, 1963.(36) J. F. K. Document 009005, p. 7.( .47) CIA cable, Oct. 11. 1963.(38) CIA cable, Sept. 7,1963.(39) CIA cable, Oct. 22, 1963.(40) FBI file No. 97-4546. sec. 2, pp. 3-4, House Select Committeeon Assassina-tions (JFK Document 006468) .(41)Ibid.(1,2) CIA memo.(43) CIA cable, Apr. 21, 1964.(44)Ibid.(45)CIA cable, Mar. 2f3, 1964.(46) CIA memo, Apr. 13.1964.(47) CIA cable, June 6, 1964.(l,R) CIA cable, May 20.1964.(49) CIA cable, June 3, 1964.(.50) CIA cable, Map 30, 1964.(51) CIA ealile. Jime 3.1964.(52) CIA cable, June 6, 1964.(5.4) Ibid.(:51,) CI.N, memo, 'Nlay 20, 1964.(.55) Ibid.(50) CIA cable. June 6. 1964.(57) CIA memo, Sept. 11, 1964.(58) CIA report. 1-pt. 23. 1964.( .59) CIA. document. nmlated.(60) CT.--k memo. Cent. 22.'964.(61) CIA cable, Jan. 4, 1969. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Steve, my memory will be faulty but I think this is covered at some length in the LaFontaines book. My benchmark on the FBI inquiry is that they were trying to minimize the Odio incident and even had instructions from Hoover to position her as mentally ill....they tried to get her Uncle to go along with that and he refused. So did her Doctor. Add that to the fact that she wrote her father in Cuba (before the assassination) about two unknown men who had visited her and who she was worried about and I have a difficult time accepting that she knew either of her visitors. Of course, as with how many shots came from where, there are innumerable ways to spin the Odio incident and to marginalize its significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Steve Thomas Posted Yesterday, 04:33 PM Three men came to the home of Sylvia Odio. Two were Hispanic and the third she identified as Lee Oswald. The two Hispanics used the names Leopoldo and Angelo. In a May 5, 1964 letter from SS Agent Rowley to J. Lee Rankin, Rowley describes a 4/30/64 interview SS Inspector Kelley had with Reverend Walter McChann. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...341&relPageId=2 In this letter, Rowley said that at Kelley's urging, McChann called Sylvia Odio to get the names of the men who visited her home. According to McChann, while she could not identify Leopoldo, she identified the second Hispanic man as someone named Eugenio Cisneros. see page 6 of this letter. I didn't know if this was widely known. Steve Thomas In her testimony Sylva Odio discusses 3 the three men, one of which in her mind (and her sister's mind) was Lee Oswald. The two seemed to be Mexican rather than Cuban.... Didn't these men come by twice, and only once inside the apartment? The Cisneros story smells like disinfo to me.... but since we don't know, someone better check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Didn't these men come by twice, and only once inside the apartment? Antti, I believe your refering to the phone call Sylvia recieved the next day from the two Mexican/Cuban men, from memory, "What did you think of Oswaldo, he's crazy, He says us Cubans dont have any guts, we should have shot Kennedy for the BOP" Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 Larry, Add that to the fact that she wrote her father in Cuba (before the assassination) about two unknown men who had visited her and who she was worried about and I have a difficult time accepting that she knew either of her visitors. The date of McChann's phone call with Syvia was April 30, 1964. The date of Sylvia's Warren Commission testimony was July 22, 1964. In her WC testimony, she said, "Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a man by the name of George Rodriguez Alvareda? Mrs. ODIO Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Who is he? Mrs. ODIO. He is another member of JURE. And at the time, a little after that, after December. I was more in contact with him, and I will tell you why later. They are all members of JURE here in Dallas, working hard. And so I asked him if they were sent by him, and he said, "No". And I said, "Do you know Eugeino?" This is the war name for_ _ _ _.That is his war name and everybody underground knows him as Eugenio. So I didn't mention his real name. He didn't know. Mr. LIEBELER. Who did you ask this? Mrs. ODIO. I asked these men when they came to the door--I asked if they had been sent by Alentado, became I explained to them that he had already asked me to do the letters and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Eugenio," and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Ray," and he said no. I wonder why that man's name was deleted. I wonder too if McChann or Kelley got that phone call wrong. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 According to McChann, while she could not identify Leopoldo, she identified the second Hispanic man as someone named Eugenio Cisneros. I wish I would have read Sylvia's WC testimony before I posted this. Mr. LIEBELER. So it was not Eugenio who was with Leon when those men came to your apartment? Mrs. ODIO. No; I would have known Eugenio. He was a very close friend of my family and he did underground activity with my mother and father. Mr. LIEBELER. But you did not tell him (McChann in their April 30th phone call) that you could identify the other man as Eugenio? Mrs. ODIO. That's right. Mr. LIEBELER. You did not tell him that? Mrs. ODIO. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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