Jump to content
The Education Forum

A Couple of Questions for Tosh


Recommended Posts

Tosh,

I may be rehashing some issues that have been discussed, but will ask anyway.

In reviewing FBI files on you concerning Johnny Roselli, it appears in at least one of the memos that you approached the Phoenix Office with concerns about Roselli's well-being, two days before he was declared missing. Maybe I am reading it all wrong, but if not, could you explain?

Secondly, we'll move ahead a couple of decades and I have a question regarding Kiki's murder. Are you aware if he was in possession of hard docs naming persons within the government involved in an ongoing narcotics distribution network, at the time of his death. And if so, are you aware of who the docs named and did you see them?

I am going to D.C. later in the week and will be gone for a week or so. If I don't see your reply before I leave, I will either respond on the road or get back to you when I get back. You can also e-mail me with a response if you would prefer.

(For all of those who went up the hill)

Thanks,

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For anyone interest in Roselli, who has just recently got into researching the JFK assassination, following are a few links to the actual FBI pages with their date and file location numbers. This is about one third of the total pages released in 1981 and 1991, pertaining to the Roselli/Plumlee FBI Phoenix file.

The FBI has two different sets of documents on Plumlee which contradict each other.

At the time 1976-78 it was important that the real story behind Roselli's disappearance and murder not be known. That was the reason for two different sets of files. A close look at these files will show a form of "tampering with the record" or whitness, during that time frame:

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9396.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi1.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi2.PDF note: one documents says "... money taken by Agents...". While another FBI documents sats ".. only an old pair of binoculars was found...".

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi3.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi4.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi5.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi6.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi7.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi8.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9n.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9o.PDF

Edited by William Plumlee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tosh,

I may be rehashing some issues that have been discussed, but will ask anyway.

In reviewing FBI files on you concerning Johnny Roselli, it appears in at least one of the memos that you approached the Phoenix Office with concerns about Roselli's well-being, two days before he was declared missing. Maybe I am reading it all wrong, but if not, could you explain?

Secondly, we'll move ahead a couple of decades and I have a question regarding Kiki's murder. Are you aware if he was in possession of hard docs naming persons within the government involved in an ongoing narcotics distribution network, at the time of his death. And if so, are you aware of who the docs named and did you see them?

I am going to D.C. later in the week and will be gone for a week or so. If I don't see your reply before I leave, I will either respond on the road or get back to you when I get back. You can also e-mail me with a response if you would prefer.

(For all of those who went up the hill)

Thanks,

Al

fm tosh plumlee;

AL:

Following is PART TWO of you question. PART ONE in reference to Roselli will follow after this section on KI KI because of the length of my reply.

The following KI KI material , as you know, is still a real "touchy" matter, perhaps more so than the Roselli or the Kennedy assassination. Various sections of that whole KI Ki affair are still CIA classified as of today. However, some of the names are found embedded within Senator Kerry's investigations of old. Most of the details of those top secret UC operatives still hold the "classified secret-- committee sensitive", classifications as of today: Its for those reason I hold back to some degree. I'm sure you understand.

However, bare with me and I will "tip-toe" through the mine fields on this and try to put into perspective the KiKI information as I know it. I did receive field reports and had discussed most of this with Scott and a few others before and after his death and that of KI Ki's.

(reference Security advisor Bill Holden for Senator Hard and Senator Gary Hart, as well as the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, during the years of1983-88)

After KiKi's death, I was told at the time, " it would be best for me if I just, 'moved along to other matters'.

PART TWO OF YOUR QUESTION: KI KI

reference"... http://www.phoenixarchives.com/express/1991/0591/13-06.pdf

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf

DEA Mexico OPS: These documents make reference to "Guatemalan Guerrillas" training at a ranch owned by Drug Lord CARO- Quintero in Vera Crus, Mexico. It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rico. DEA Agent Enrique Camarena (KIKI) and his pilot found out about this operation known as "The CIA Thing" and were killed because of this knowledge. Plumlee and other American undercover pilots had flown into this ranch many times as reported in various sections within these documents and other news media leaks in Mexico and America. The operation was known as "AMSOG" and, as reported to Senator Gary Hart and his Senate investigators in early 1983, was an "illegal" smuggling operation through Mexico into the United States, supported by the US Military, Panama Southern Command. ".

Background information concerning above:

Within the Special Agent Wayne Schmidt and Hector Berrellez declassified "SECRET" documents (from above link) contains the first indication of what Ki Ki had found out through a CIA undercover pilot, "Scott Wheeler", who was later ed murdered at a drug run airstrip in Central America known as, "Poco Solo". Scott had infiltrated the Ochoa/Escobar cartel through "Setco Aviation" and was reporting back to CIA and DEA through his "Case Officer" "Deno Fernande's". He had given KiKi and the Mazatlan DEA copies of documents and notes that alleged CIA involvement in drug smuggling for the contra resupply network. I had copies received from Scott that I gave to the Arizona Tri-State Drug Task Force, through the Phoenix Organized Crime Task Force. (Sgt Ed Salem.., now ret and Sgt. Harry Hawkins.., also retired.

note: Scott Wheller was be-headed at Poco Solo because of a "Black book" with names and places he had recoded. He kept his notes in this book secreted in his boot. When he was about to leave on a flight from Poco Solo to the United States through Mexico, and had recorded details of operation " Overflight " in his book, he was approached by two of Carro Quintero and Ochoa's hit men and executed at the Poco airstrip. He had already past information to KI KI on two or three other occasions. This was the beginning of KI KI and his pilot "Alvarez" (?) demise.

Scott' headless body was loaded in his "Areocommander" type aircraft and flown through Mexico back into the United States. Scott and his aircraft were abandon not far from Eagle Pass Texas. A warning note to the DEA was attached to the body.

The DEA, Miami received full reports before and after this affair from Scott and other field operational personal of the time. However, these reports were "tampered" with and some withheld in part by persons unknown within the south Florida DEA/CIA (???)

This information was also past to a Mexican reporter who was working on drug corruption in and through Merico and the United States southwest region which involved CIA "Black" operations of the time. This reporter (Manuel Buendia Tellegiros)) was also murdered. (as noted within the DEA Berrellez document)

When the DEA Mexico Mazatlan and Guadalajara DEA offices ( from-Ki Ki's office) requested information they had received from military CIA operatives in the field-- and the AMSOG region including Scott Wheeler's information to Ki Ki and Guadalajara DEA and ask for help and information from the Mexican government on those arrested, a set up (fake raid by the Mexican DFS) was launched where a "shoot out" with other Mexican federal authorities was staged at a ranch north east of Guadalajara. Over forty innocent Mexican agents and civilians were massacred. Information was planted at the site to throw DEA investigations in other directions. Shortly after, KiKi's body and that of his pilot were found not far from this ranch. It was evident they had been move there after being murdered at another place in Mexico a few days before.

References:

Shaggy Wallace DEA retired and Jammie ?? also retired and Michale Levine DEA also retired. Sgt. Ray Lamberson aid to Senator Berry Goldwater's security detail Arizona Department of Public Safety, retired. John Winner and Dick McCall Senator Kerry's staff investigators of 1990.

I hope this helps in some way. Good to hear from you . Thanks, Tosh

Edited by William Plumlee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tosh,

I may be rehashing some issues that have been discussed, but will ask anyway.

In reviewing FBI files on you concerning Johnny Roselli, it appears in at least one of the memos that you approached the Phoenix Office with concerns about Roselli's well-being, two days before he was declared missing. Maybe I am reading it all wrong, but if not, could you explain?

Secondly, we'll move ahead a couple of decades and I have a question regarding Kiki's murder. Are you aware if he was in possession of hard docs naming persons within the government involved in an ongoing narcotics distribution network, at the time of his death. And if so, are you aware of who the docs named and did you see them?

I am going to D.C. later in the week and will be gone for a week or so. If I don't see your reply before I leave, I will either respond on the road or get back to you when I get back. You can also e-mail me with a response if you would prefer.

(For all of those who went up the hill)

Thanks,

Al

Al:

Here is..,

PART ONE OF YOUR QUESTION . reference: Roselli/ Plumlee FBI files

I was asked to report the information I had and my concerns about my safety and that of Roselli to the local Phoenix FBI by Senator Berry Goldwater's security staff and the Phoenix Organise Crime Task Force. Because of my past associations with Rosellie and his previous testimony to the Senate and the fact information had been obtained that Rosellie was being called back to the committee again; it was felt that I should tell them (FBI) why I was concerned for his and my safety. I had been told by Johney Farentello in Florida, and othes in Florida, that Rosellie would never make it back to Washington to testifie.., nor would I. This was told to my associates in law enforcement and to various Senate investigative committes of the time.

I was concern that I was going to be ask to report to the Committee and that is the reason I was talking with various Senators. If you notice the first meeting with the FBI was two or three days before Roselli was even reported missing. The FBI noted that I later said Roselli was the person I was refering to on the earlier meetings. Take notice that when they later came to my home in Phoenix (after Roselli's body had been found) they( the FBI) wanted me to tell them everthing I knew about Roselli. If I had never mention Rosellie to them or told them who I was concerned about... then why did they come asking me about what all I knew about Roselli's activites after his body had been found. Its in the record. I took two lie detector test and past both. One from the FBI and one from the Phoenix Organize Crime detail.

The documentation was slanted by the FBI that I made all the contacts with them... However I was instructed to make those first contacts by local law enforcement.., and I might add that I was asked by the FBI to come back two or three more times to discuss the Roselli matters. I might add also that I was working Mexico UC operations with the Arizona Tri -State Drug Task Force, chaired by then Gov. Bruce Babbit at the time and it was important that my actitives not be known or compromised.

It is said that I approached the FBI thus being the source of the information on the released documentation invalid.... therefore the documentation means nothing because it was after the fact, so they said. This was told to two Senate investigators who some years later ask me about the Roselli/Plumlee FBI 62 and CIA 105 files. Sometime after 1998 the FBI released another 225 pages concerning my activities through FOIA completely different than the FOIA released to Barnard Fenesterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981.

As a result nothing was done to stop the killing of Roselli and others around that time. A few years later another similar Ops would result in the death of three good men. Scott Wheeler, KiKi Camaranda, and his pilot Alverez concerning the Drug War known as "The CIA Thing". Hope this helps clear a few things. Its very dangerous even today going in this direction. ..., even more dangerous that the JFK matter. I hope you understand.

Tosh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tosh,

I may be rehashing some issues that have been discussed, but will ask anyway.

In reviewing FBI files on you concerning Johnny Roselli, it appears in at least one of the memos that you approached the Phoenix Office with concerns about Roselli's well-being, two days before he was declared missing. Maybe I am reading it all wrong, but if not, could you explain?

Secondly, we'll move ahead a couple of decades and I have a question regarding Kiki's murder. Are you aware if he was in possession of hard docs naming persons within the government involved in an ongoing narcotics distribution network, at the time of his death. And if so, are you aware of who the docs named and did you see them?

I am going to D.C. later in the week and will be gone for a week or so. If I don't see your reply before I leave, I will either respond on the road or get back to you when I get back. You can also e-mail me with a response if you would prefer.

(For all of those who went up the hill)

Thanks,

Al

Al:

Here is..,

PART ONE OF YOUR QUESTION . reference: Roselli/ Plumlee FBI files

I was asked to report the information I had and my concerns about my safety and that of Roselli to the local Phoenix FBI by Senator Berry Goldwater's security staff and the Phoenix Organise Crime Task Force. Because of my past associations with Rosellie and his previous testimony to the Senate and the fact information had been obtained that Rosellie was being called back to the committee again; it was felt that I should tell them (FBI) why I was concerned for his and my safety. I had been told by Johney Farentello in Florida, and othes in Florida, that Rosellie would never make it back to Washington to testifie.., nor would I. This was told to my associates in law enforcement and to various Senate investigative committes of the time.

I was concern that I was going to be ask to report to the Committee and that is the reason I was talking with various Senators. If you notice the first meeting with the FBI was two or three days before Roselli was even reported missing. The FBI noted that I later said Roselli was the person I was refering to on the earlier meetings. Take notice that when they later came to my home in Phoenix (after Roselli's body had been found) they( the FBI) wanted me to tell them everthing I knew about Roselli. If I had never mention Rosellie to them or told them who I was concerned about... then why did they come asking me about what all I knew about Roselli's activites after his body had been found. Its in the record. I took two lie detector test and past both. One from the FBI and one from the Phoenix Organize Crime detail.

The documentation was slanted by the FBI that I made all the contacts with them... However I was instructed to make those first contacts by local law enforcement.., and I might add that I was asked by the FBI to come back two or three more times to discuss the Roselli matters. I might add also that I was working Mexico UC operations with the Arizona Tri -State Drug Task Force, chaired by then Gov. Bruce Babbit at the time and it was important that my actitives not be known or compromised.

It is said that I approached the FBI thus being the source of the information on the released documentation invalid.... therefore the documentation means nothing because it was after the fact, so they said. This was told to two Senate investigators who some years later ask me about the Roselli/Plumlee FBI 62 and CIA 105 files. Sometime after 1998 the FBI released another 225 pages concerning my activities through FOIA completely different than the FOIA released to Barnard Fenesterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981.

As a result nothing was done to stop the killing of Roselli and others around that time. A few years later another similar Ops would result in the death of three good men. Scott Wheeler, KiKi Camaranda, and his pilot Alverez concerning the Drug War known as "The CIA Thing". Hope this helps clear a few things. Its very dangerous even today going in this direction. ..., even more dangerous that the JFK matter. I hope you understand.

Tosh

Reply was made to Tosh through private messaging and thread can now be closed without exception.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tosh,

I may be rehashing some issues that have been discussed, but will ask anyway.

In reviewing FBI files on you concerning Johnny Roselli, it appears in at least one of the memos that you approached the Phoenix Office with concerns about Roselli's well-being, two days before he was declared missing. Maybe I am reading it all wrong, but if not, could you explain?

Secondly, we'll move ahead a couple of decades and I have a question regarding Kiki's murder. Are you aware if he was in possession of hard docs naming persons within the government involved in an ongoing narcotics distribution network, at the time of his death. And if so, are you aware of who the docs named and did you see them?

I am going to D.C. later in the week and will be gone for a week or so. If I don't see your reply before I leave, I will either respond on the road or get back to you when I get back. You can also e-mail me with a response if you would prefer.

(For all of those who went up the hill)

Thanks,

Al

Al:

Here is..,

PART ONE OF YOUR QUESTION . reference: Roselli/ Plumlee FBI files

I was asked to report the information I had and my concerns about my safety and that of Roselli to the local Phoenix FBI by Senator Berry Goldwater's security staff and the Phoenix Organise Crime Task Force. Because of my past associations with Rosellie and his previous testimony to the Senate and the fact information had been obtained that Rosellie was being called back to the committee again; it was felt that I should tell them (FBI) why I was concerned for his and my safety. I had been told by Johney Farentello in Florida, and othes in Florida, that Rosellie would never make it back to Washington to testifie.., nor would I. This was told to my associates in law enforcement and to various Senate investigative committes of the time.

I was concern that I was going to be ask to report to the Committee and that is the reason I was talking with various Senators. If you notice the first meeting with the FBI was two or three days before Roselli was even reported missing. The FBI noted that I later said Roselli was the person I was refering to on the earlier meetings. Take notice that when they later came to my home in Phoenix (after Roselli's body had been found) they( the FBI) wanted me to tell them everthing I knew about Roselli. If I had never mention Rosellie to them or told them who I was concerned about... then why did they come asking me about what all I knew about Roselli's activites after his body had been found. Its in the record. I took two lie detector test and past both. One from the FBI and one from the Phoenix Organize Crime detail.

The documentation was slanted by the FBI that I made all the contacts with them... However I was instructed to make those first contacts by local law enforcement.., and I might add that I was asked by the FBI to come back two or three more times to discuss the Roselli matters. I might add also that I was working Mexico UC operations with the Arizona Tri -State Drug Task Force, chaired by then Gov. Bruce Babbit at the time and it was important that my actitives not be known or compromised.

It is said that I approached the FBI thus being the source of the information on the released documentation invalid.... therefore the documentation means nothing because it was after the fact, so they said. This was told to two Senate investigators who some years later ask me about the Roselli/Plumlee FBI 62 and CIA 105 files. Sometime after 1998 the FBI released another 225 pages concerning my activities through FOIA completely different than the FOIA released to Barnard Fenesterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981.

As a result nothing was done to stop the killing of Roselli and others around that time. A few years later another similar Ops would result in the death of three good men. Scott Wheeler, KiKi Camaranda, and his pilot Alverez concerning the Drug War known as "The CIA Thing". Hope this helps clear a few things. Its very dangerous even today going in this direction. ..., even more dangerous that the JFK matter. I hope you understand.

Tosh

Reply was made to Tosh through private messaging and thread can now be closed without exception.

Al

Thanks Al. Got your message. I will not be posting or responding to questions on any Forums anymore. Of course thats No big loss! You take care and keep up the good work. If I can help in your research you know I will..... "CIP"-- Keep In Touch.., Your friend Tosh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Al. Got your message. I will not be posting or responding to questions on any Forums anymore. Of course thats No big loss! You take care and keep up the good work. If I can help in your research you know I will..... "CIP"-- Keep In Touch.., Your friend Tosh

Tosh,

Sorry to hear that you will not be posting anymore. I strongly feel you can make sense out of this for all of us and should reconsider. There have been many victims of government operations whether it be their direct actions or their failures, and you are definately one of them. I have always considered myself an historian as I believe that history repeats itself and we should learn from our past. You have a direct insight into our past whether it be 1963 or the early eighties, and we should respect what you have to offer and learn from it.

In my many years of research and service, I have came across very few whom I consider as valuable as you in regards to a window of our past and asset to learning the truth. There are many who will attack you and that should only motivate you greater into providing the answers to the questions of serious researchers and new learners in order to keep this flame burning.

I will get off my soapbox now as I will be leaving for DC tommorrow.

Take care my friend and always remember those who have went up the hill and never came back. Also those who have had to live with their roles in it.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...
Thanks Al. Got your message. I will not be posting or responding to questions on any Forums anymore. Of course thats No big loss! You take care and keep up the good work. If I can help in your research you know I will..... "CIP"-- Keep In Touch.., Your friend Tosh

------------------------

[Al Carrier quote:]

Tosh,

Sorry to hear that you will not be posting anymore. I strongly feel you can make sense out of this for all of us and should reconsider. There have been many victims of government operations whether it be their direct actions or their failures, and you are definitely one of them. [...] You have a direct insight into our past whether it be 1963 or the early eighties, and we should respect what you have to offer and learn from it.

In my many years of research and service, I have came across very few whom I consider as valuable as you in regards to a window of our past and asset to learning the truth. There are many who will attack you and that should only motivate you greater into providing the answers to the questions of serious researchers and new learners in order to keep this flame burning. [...]

Al [unquote]

----------------------

__________________________________

I agree with Al. Unfortunately, an over-jealous, newbie-at-the-time, self-righteous "member" of The Forum once-too-often tried to bear-bait Mr. Plumlee with a laundry list of asinine, loaded questions intended to get him to "incriminate himself," and unfortunately succeeded only in getting him to call him/her a "@#$%!" (and leave)... Too bad.

--Thomas

__________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...