Henry Rybka

[Brendan Slattery]

Your rejection of my work without reading it is also insulting. Here I spend two years of my life working on something so that people like you can have informed opinions,

Then by all means, please post it.

[Mark Knight]

Mr. Slattery, if you will return to Pat Speer's post #27 on this thread, and refer to the fine print at the bottom of the post, you should find a link to his work. Had you read his entire post, calling your attention to this link would have been unnecessary, as you would've known that his work IS posted, and where.

You're welcome.

[Brendan Slattery]

Mr. Slattery, if you will return to Pat Speer's post #27 on this thread, and refer to the fine print at the bottom of the post, you should find a link to his work. Had you read his entire post, calling your attention to this link would have been unnecessary, as you would've known that his work IS posted, and where.

You're welcome.

Stalker.

[Mark Knight]

Stalker.

If you ran into a foul-mouthed, belligerent, ignorant drunk at your local bar or pub and after a few minutes it became clear that any efforts on your part to reason with him or debate with him were fruitless and would only serve to induce him to become nastier and nastier.....and it was also apparent that the drunk actually enjoyed seeing you get irritated at his behavior....... at what point would you dispense with the conversation, walk away, and let him puke all over himself?

Just a rhetorical, metaphorical question.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

I would suggest that as this thread ceased to be about Mr Rybka about 30 posts ago that you either cease posting here, or return it to the original topic. As I said, just a suggestion.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

i'll give you some evidence,if the secret service had done their job that day,11/22/63 would be a footnote in history as the day of a foiled assassination attempt.....Palamara's work speaks for itself,i'm a huge fan.... you discount the uncovered Chicago and Miami plots against JFK, in the previous weeks prior to Dallas, as if they never happened and imply that Dallas was a routine trip in regards to security....

I have implied no such thing, I find the drinking session the night before to be dereliction of duty of the highest order, heads should have rolled. I just dont find the Rybka incident to be particularly suspicious. If you wish to discuss the Miami, and Chicago attempts please start a seperate thread. Steve.

[Blair Dobson]

i suggest a mass banning and soon.

And yeah since this interesting thread has gone to the dogs;

does anyone know if Posners mother still washes his clip on moustache?

I mean Posner lives in his parents basement so.....I thought some of the Lone Nutters might know for sure...

I guess star trek conventions got boring for Posner.

I LOVED the Vince "lawyer......need we say more than lawyer" Bugeyedloser references...

He would write a book about nail clippings if it made him a buck.

Another "Honest lawyer" with a heart of gold...

This thread is gold.

Grow up.

Dobson

Edited June 9, 2006 by Blair Dobson

[Guest Stephen Turner]

as you say Daniel, but while Brendans's first post may have been a little abrasive it was, at least from my point of view, on the money, anybody disagreeing with it should have attempted rebuttal. Mr Slattery's motives are his own, and his standpoint is "in puris naturalibus" If he chooses not to read Pats fine work then he is the loser, if he chooses not to engage with said presentation then members will judge him accordingly. I just dont see the point in clogging up threads with pointless invictive. Regards, Steve.

[Mark Wilson]

i'll give you some evidence,if the secret service had done their job that day,11/22/63 would be a footnote in history as the day of a foiled assassination attempt.....Palamara's work speaks for itself,i'm a huge fan.... you discount the uncovered Chicago and Miami plots against JFK, in the previous weeks prior to Dallas, as if they never happened and imply that Dallas was a routine trip in regards to security....

I have implied no such thing, I find the drinking session the night before to be dereliction of duty of the highest order, heads should have rolled. I just dont find the Rybka incident to be particularly suspicious. If you wish to discuss the Miami, and Chicago attempts please start a seperate thread. Steve.

Chicago,Miami,Dallas, they're all relevant when discussing JFK's security...Rybka's reaction,imo,can only be described as defiant to Robert's order to fall back.

[Ron Ecker]

Rybka's reaction,imo,can only be described as defiant to Robert's order to fall back.

I don't understand why it "can only be described" that way. If I were Rybka, and I were assigned to ride the right running board of the follow-up car, and turned around and saw there was no place for me to get on the running board, as the car was going by me and Roberts was telling me to get on, I would tell Roberts to go to hell too.

I think there was security stripping in Dallas that day, but I don't think this incident had anything demonstrable to do with it. If you want something demonstrable, count the motorcycles and their positions escorting the limo in Dealey Plaza. Whose idea was that?

[Mark Knight]

On the Emory Roberts thread, Mr. Slattery made a very well-reasoned post regarding Henry Rybka and Secret Service protection. In fairness to Mr. Slattery, and in case you missed it on the other thread, I'm taking the liberty of cutting and pasting it below:

[Or view it here , on post #4.]

It's obvious by now that I don't put much stock in the "Rybka left behind" polemic, but the subject of agents on the bumpers is an interesting one. After perusing a number of still photographs, I'm curious as to what conditions had to me met to warrant placing agents on the rear of the car.

Houston, 1962: normal crowds, no bumper agents

Berlin, 1963: dense crowds, agents on bumpers

Honolulu, 1963: dense crowds, no bumper agents

Tampa, 1963: relatively light crowds, agents on bumper

San Antonio, Nov 21 1963: light crowds, no bumper agents

The Tampa motorcade occurred three days before Dallas. Crowds were light, and the city didn't have nearly the same reputation as Dallas. Nevertheless, agents were placed on the bumpers. If Tampa, why not Dallas? Or for that matter, San Antonio? That's the question that's never been answered to my satisfaction. Dallas was the city everyone was worried about, yet the security looked like something you'd see in Des Moines. There's a rumor floating that Kennedy requested that agents not ride the bumpers anymore. If so, Clint Hill didn't get the memo, since he left the QM three separate times that day. Does anyone seriously believe he would deliberately defy an executive order? My theory: the SS made it up. After all, dead men like JFK tell no tales--nor can they contradict you.

As for the vid narrator ascribing nefarious intent to Roberts, well, that's just beyond the pale. These guys have been wracked with guilt for years, and the dead can no longer defend themselves. SS incompetence + Kennedy's arrogance got him killed, nothing more.

Rybka: is that a smile on his face? Doesn't look too outraged to me.

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Edited June 9, 2006 by Mark Knight

[Brendan Slattery]

The real issue was the open car. Had the first shot hit Kennedy in the head, agents on the bumpers would have been rendered useless. But Kennedy was a press-the-flesh kinda guy, so he took his chances (in private and public). Even if Rybka had hopped aboard the QM, the odds that he and he alone would have instantaneously recognized the shots and raced past John Ready to the limo in time to cover JFK are a million to one.

[Ron Ecker]

I guess I'm misinterpreting what is happening at Love Field, and what happened in the motorcade.

I have always assumed that Rybka and Hill were running alongside the limo as it was pulling away at Love Field and the crowd that was there, at which point they would hop aboard the running boards of the follow-up car. They were not going to get on the back of the limo and ride it all the way to the Trade Mart.

During the motorcade agents would leave the follow-up car and get on the back of the limo only when the crowd became dense around the limo. Hill did this three or four times. Otherwise they would stay on the follow-up car, exactly as they did in Dealey Plaza, where the crowd had thinned out and the motorcade was basically over.

I assume Roberts rose up in the car as it was leaving Love Field to tell Rybka and Hill to come on and hop aboard. Rybka turned to hop aboard, and there was nowhere to hop. He got hopping mad.

I imagine Rybka probably stayed mad at times for the rest of his life, since getting crowded off the running board that day prevented him from witnessing at Dealey Plaza one of the turning points in history.

[Mark Wilson]

Rybka's reaction,imo,can only be described as defiant to Robert's order to fall back.

I don't understand why it "can only be described" that way. If I were Rybka, and I were assigned to ride the right running board of the follow-up car, and turned around and saw there was no place for me to get on the running board, as the car was going by me and Roberts was telling me to get on, I would tell Roberts to go to hell too.

I think there was security stripping in Dallas that day, but I don't think this incident had anything demonstrable to do with it. If you want something demonstrable, count the motorcycles and their positions escorting the limo in Dealey Plaza. Whose idea was that?

Ron,i watched it a few more times,keeping in mind your thinking that there was no room on the running board being the source of Rybka's reaction and i would respectfully disagree because Rybka is throwing his arms up in the air as he begins to turn around and if you notice,towards the end of the clip, the agent on the back of the running board gets in the back seat, leaving plenty of room on the board....

I imagine Rybka probably stayed mad at times for the rest of his life, since getting crowded off the running board that day prevented him from witnessing at Dealey Plaza one of the turning points in history.

Or he died knowing he was the only man that could've saved Kennedy's life,only, if he'd be allowed to do his job.

[Brendan Slattery]

FROM : ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts, The White House Detail.

U. S. Secret Service

November 29, 1963.

SUBJECT: Schedule of events prior to and after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas on Friday November 22, 1963.

11:25 a.m. The President and Mrs. Kennedy with members of the Presidential Party departed Carswell A.F.B., Texas via USAF 26,000 (Jet, also known as AF 1) enroute to Love Field, Dallas, Texas.

The following members of the United States Secret Service were aboard this aircraft. ASAIC Roy T. Kellerman, in charge of White House Detail for the Texas trip, SA Clinton Hill in charge of Mrs. Kennedy's security, SA William Greer Presidential driver, ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts, in charge of 8 am-4 p.m. shift, with SA's John Ready, Donald Lawton and William McIntyre. SA John O'Leary was also aboard AF 1. Special Agent Glen Bennett of the 8 a.m.-4 p.m. shift arrived Dallas, Texas aboard USAF 6970.

11:40 a.m. Presidential Plane arrived Love Field, Dallas, Texas, which was five minutes late according to schedule, as we were due there at 11:35 a.m.

After the usual greeting of approximately 20 people, upon deplaning, the President and Mrs. Kennedy walked to roped off area and shook hands with a number of the assembled persons gathered there, and autographed a few papers and pamphlets. I accompanied the President, as well as other Special Agents while he greeted the people. The President and Mrs. Kennedy returned to their car.

11:55 a.m. The President (right rear seat), Mrs. Kennedy (left rear seat) Governor John Connally (of Texas) (right jump seat) Mrs. Connally (left jump seat) ASAIC Roy T. Kellerman front seat, with SA William Greer driving, (SS car 100 X--top removed) departed Love Field.

SA Donald Lawton of 8 a.m.-4 p.m. shift remained at Love Field with SA Warner and Rybka to set up security for the President's departure for Bergstrom AFB, Austin, Texas. The Presidential aircraft was due to depart Dallas at 2:35 p.m.

The following persons departed Love Field in Secret Service Follow-up car, 679 X and were located in and on running boards of car as follows:

ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts--front seat--operating radio.

SA Samuel Kinney--driving (did an excellent job)

Mr. Kenneth O'Donnell, Appointment Secretary to the President, left jump seat.

Mr. David Powers, Presidential Aide, right jump seat.

SA Glen Bennett, left rear seat.

SA George Hickey, right rear seat (manning AR-15 (rifle)

SA Clinton Hill, left running board, front.

SA William Mclntyre, left running board, behind Hill.

SA John D. Ready, right running board, front.

SA Paul Landis, right running board behind Ready.

Note: On shift report for Nov. 22, 1963, I listed SA Rybka as riding in center of rear seat, which was in error, as he was not in car. As mentioned above, he remained at Love Field.

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It would help if we had a SS duty roster for Nov 22 which states who should have been where. I strongly doubt Rybka was assigned to the QM, but maybe the document will prove me wrong.