Garland /Redbird Airport

[William Plumlee]

In case anyone feels they would like to research an event and establish facts in place of speculations/ there is an 88 year old pilot/ flight instructor from Dallas White Rock Aviation who has never been interviewed who, however, rebembers the "Dallas Flight" and the details of the Garland and Red Bird airport and John Rosellie being at Garland Texas the morning of the assassination.

He remembers a 'Dave Ferris who has over the years become known as "Dave Ferrie" because some have wanted the record to show this. However, If this old bold pilot/ flight instructor was ever interviewed various speculations from the so called "experts" and their well researched books and movies would have to be re written and their books re-done because of what this man knows and can prove.. However, this interview will never happen, because the JFK matter has become a 'Cash Cow' for profit, speculations in place of truth. .., a profit ego venture for many so called experts in the JFK research field. The whole JFK investigation has become a cash crow envoirment.., entertainment and ego in the name of research looking for truth. Its really sad.

[Lee Forman]

In case anyone feels they would like to research an event and establish facts in place of speculations/ there is an 88 year old pilot/ flight instructor from Dallas White Rock Aviation who has never been interviewed who, however, rebembers the "Dallas Flight" and the details of the Garland and Red Bird airport and John Rosellie being at Garland Texas the morning of the assassination.

He remembers a 'Dave Ferris who has over the years become known as "Dave Ferrie" because some have wanted the record to show this. However, If this old bold pilot/ flight instructor was ever interviewed various speculations from the so called "experts" and their well researched books and movies would have to be re written and their books re-done because of what this man knows and can prove.. However, this interview will never happen, because the JFK matter has become a 'Cash Cow' for profit, speculations in place of truth. .., a profit ego venture for many so called experts in the JFK research field. The whole JFK investigation has become a cash crow envoirment.., entertainment and ego in the name of research looking for truth. Its really sad.

Hello Mr. Plumlee.

What was the story on Redbird again? Who was the pilot revving the engines and where was the plane heading? Did Ferrie use more than one plane do you know? Did he have occassion to fly to various locations across the US?

I'd gladly interview the individual in question - however, what more can he add aside from having seen the plane? Does he know the details of the flight plan? Pilot, passengers, etc?

- lee

[James Richards]

In case anyone feels they would like to research an event and establish facts in place of speculations/ there is an 88 year old pilot/ flight instructor from Dallas White Rock Aviation who has never been interviewed who, however, rebembers the "Dallas Flight" and the details of the Garland and Red Bird airport and John Rosellie being at Garland Texas the morning of the assassination.

He remembers a 'Dave Ferris who has over the years become known as "Dave Ferrie" because some have wanted the record to show this. However, If this old bold pilot/ flight instructor was ever interviewed various speculations from the so called "experts" and their well researched books and movies would have to be re written and their books re-done because of what this man knows and can prove.. However, this interview will never happen, because the JFK matter has become a 'Cash Cow' for profit, speculations in place of truth. .., a profit ego venture for many so called experts in the JFK research field. The whole JFK investigation has become a cash crow envoirment.., entertainment and ego in the name of research looking for truth. Its really sad.

Tosh,

Is the guy you refer to, T.M. Smith? He was known as Smitty. Did a stint as a pilot for the Royal Canadian Air Force during WW2. He also wrote a book called 'Multi-Engine Rating'.

If so, I have tried to track him down without luck.

James

Edited June 8, 2006 by James Richards

[William Plumlee]

In case anyone feels they would like to research an event and establish facts in place of speculations/ there is an 88 year old pilot/ flight instructor from Dallas White Rock Aviation who has never been interviewed who, however, rebembers the "Dallas Flight" and the details of the Garland and Red Bird airport and John Rosellie being at Garland Texas the morning of the assassination.

He remembers a 'Dave Ferris who has over the years become known as "Dave Ferrie" because some have wanted the record to show this. However, If this old bold pilot/ flight instructor was ever interviewed various speculations from the so called "experts" and their well researched books and movies would have to be re written and their books re-done because of what this man knows and can prove.. However, this interview will never happen, because the JFK matter has become a 'Cash Cow' for profit, speculations in place of truth. .., a profit ego venture for many so called experts in the JFK research field. The whole JFK investigation has become a cash crow envoirment.., entertainment and ego in the name of research looking for truth. Its really sad.

Tosh,

Is the guy you refer to, T.M. Smith?

James

http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=48198

xxx

In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (Cee Cee)

Plumlee: "..I took flying lessons at White Rock Aviation in 1953. "Smitty" was my flight instructor. I soloed at White Rock in June of 53. Dave Ferris and I used to fly the old 'underpowered' Steerman with its Continual 220 engine that Pappy Reeves (I think owned) The Devil's Speedway was racing a "figure 8" type race and I would forward slip my J-3 Cub over the track and land on the dirt strip at White Rock. I worked as a engine rebuild mech at Southwest Airmotive night shift Dallas love Field as a young lad of 14-15 while going to Alex W Spence Jr.High in Dallas. I also refueled aircraft at Dallas Aero Service and cleaned the hanger when I was 14. I would wash the airplanes and clean the windows for free rides in the Loadstar C-60's. I remember when an American Airline DC-4 I think crashed into Dallas Aviation School next to Dallas Aero Service. I went and poked around the weckage. I think this was about 1949 or 50 (could have been as early as 1948. I used to ride my bike to love Field from north Dallas and play in the old WW-2 B-17's aircraft parked at Henery Seal Aviation. Years later I became a pilot for Riddle Airlines of Miami and also with Inter-Mountain, Midland, SAT and a host of other government funded airlines of the sixties. In 1963 I flew into Red Bird airport from Garland airport on the day Kennedy was assassinated. ..".

xxx

Posted By: Shaun Braley <sbraley@flamingduck.com>

Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 5:54 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (William Plumlee)

Is this the same Smitty (T.M. Smith) who's still around giving Practical Tests, these days? I've never met the guy but he's a legend around Addison Airport.

xxx

Posted By: Shaun Braley <sbraley@flamingduck.com>

Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 10:42 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (William Plumlee)

Here's a comment someone made about Smitty on the AOPA forums:

On my multi-instrument ride, a local guy named Smitty took me up in the Baron. He's got to be in his eightys, humble guy, met me for some ground work before we flew in his office. Behind him was a bunch of WWII memoribilia. I asked about it, he flew with the American Expeditionary Force in England; before that with the English--American Volunteer Group. Like a living history book. Walked to the plane with two cushions so he could reach the controls. Excellent stick and rudder guy that had me do exactly what he was supposed to. No problems. He did make a couple suggestions which were spot on.

Sound like your instructor?

xxx

Posted By: William Plumlee <wplumlee2006@yahoo.com>

Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 8:26 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (Shaun Braley)

"...IT COULD BE. I HAVE NOT SEE HIM IN OVER FIFTY YEARS. SOMETIME BACK WHEN I WAS AT RED BIRD AIRPORT I WAS TOLD HE WAS STILL AROUND AND ACTIVE IN AVIATION. THEY SAID HE LIVE NEAR FORNEY TEXAS. I WAS GOING TO LOOK HIM UP BUT I RAN OUT OF TIME. I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM OR TALK TO HIM IF HE IS THE "SMITTY' WHO SOLOED ME AT WHITE ROCK IN 1953. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE. I WAS KNOW AROUND WHITE ROCK AIRPORT AS BOBBY PLUMLEE...".

Background:

previous plumlee quote: "... This person (TA Smitty Smith) was interviewed many years ago by federal authorites. He was my flight instructor in 1953 at White Rock Aviation in Dallas at White Rock. He at one time talked about that day but was made a fool and his reputation was tarnished because of what he said. His story has been hush-hushed by the experts because it never fit into their FASCTs??. When he was available nobody asked him about Garland or Ferris or Roselli? They did not want to know.., it interfered with thier speculations and "first hand" knowledge. For years he had the Operation records for Garland Airport and supplied copies to federal investigators. Somehow they got lost. DA.

There is no way anyone can prove Roselli was in Dallas.... not even me. I have said that many times.... he could have been there for other reasons for all I know. He had been there in the spring of 63. It could have been a timing thing what I have said and anyone who knows how those OPS worked understands what that means.... In spite of what some think or might have said, I do not really care what the main stream thinks about the Plumlee/Roselli tale. I never came forward trying to prove anything. I have no motive. I kind of got SUCKED into this whole forty year plus thing by federal investigators of long ago. I do not do books or TV for money, nor care much for those who do.

However, I do know enough to know this whole JFK thing has never been looked into from the right direction. I do know when various valid leads did or have surfaced an effort has been made to plug the source and tarnish the record and their facts. Its a real circle jurk. That is the way it is suppose to be. If its not written about or recordered in a book today... then it never happened... Right? We'll leave it at that for the next twenty years.

Even if I supplied documentation, pictures, and solid proof and facts at this late date they would not be accepted. This whole toxic JFK is all for entertainment for those who have nothing better to do than stroke their eggos and add in their eyes value to their net worth. I can't really be of help in any way. Just pissing in the wind. (Good title for a project "The JFK Assassination ; Just Pissing in the Wind".

Don't you have any faith in our government? Oswald did it all by his self/// case closed.... get over it.... ".

link:

http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=48198

xxx

Edited June 8, 2006 by William Plumlee

[John Dolva]

William, I'm wondering if this could be the guy who introduced some new thinking to a pre battle of britain RAF based on his China AVGexperience? Is this the AVG tigers you are talking about?

(sorry to see not just you, but Al, Harry and Gerry having scaled down involvement, much appreciated when it still happens though, and all the best whatever goes)

Edited June 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[James Richards]

Tosh,

Is the guy you refer to, T.M. Smith? He was known as Smitty. Did a stint as a pilot for the Royal Canadian Air Force during WW2. He also wrote a book called 'Multi-Engine Rating'.

If so, I have tried to track him down without luck. (Me)

A bit more on T.M. Smith.

Over the years he worked for Texas Airmotive, Big D Aviation Corp, Wings Inc, was a prominent instructor for foreign students, won the 'Flight Instructor of the Year' award in 1972, and was the chief pilot for advanced training at the 'Airport Flying School' at Addison Airport.

I did have an address for him but he seems to have moved on from there.

FWIW.

James

[William Plumlee]

Tosh,

Is the guy you refer to, T.M. Smith? He was known as Smitty. Did a stint as a pilot for the Royal Canadian Air Force during WW2. He also wrote a book called 'Multi-Engine Rating'.

If so, I have tried to track him down without luck. (Me)

A bit more on T.M. Smith.

Over the years he worked for Texas Airmotive, Big D Aviation Corp, Wings Inc, was a prominent instructor for foreign students, won the 'Flight Instructor of the Year' award in 1972, and was the chief pilot for advanced training at the 'Airport Flying School' at Addison Airport.

I did have an address for him but he seems to have moved on from there.

FWIW.

James

Thanks James. I am sure thats him. I worked for Dallas Aero Service and Southwest Airmotive at Love Field. At one time Smitty taught (for a short time in 1949} at Dallas Aviation School just before the DC-6 flight 157 crashed into its hanger. Then I think he went to White Rock Aviation and worked for Pappy Reeves. Also "Toots" Womack had an operation at Love Field and I think Smitty worked for him for awhile, part time. Smitty is a very interesting person. I hope he is still around. Why, if I may ask, did you want to find him?

[James Richards]

Why, if I may ask, did you want to find him? (Tosh Plumlee)

I got a tip that T.M. Smith (Smitty) and another pilot by the name of M.T. Goble had the inside word on a flight out of Dallas that was related to the assassination. I have not been able to contact either man.

Did you ever cross paths with a guy named Warren Maupin?

James

[William Plumlee]

Why, if I may ask, did you want to find him? (Tosh Plumlee)

I got a tip that T.M. Smith (Smitty) and another pilot by the name of M.T. Goble had the inside word on a flight out of Dallas that was related to the assassination. I have not been able to contact either man.

Did you ever cross paths with a guy named Warren Maupin?

James

The name Warren Maupin is familar but I cannot place it. You know what happens when I speculate.

The Flight out of Dallas was said to have been made by Dave (aka David) Ferris (not Dave Ferrie) as per Dave Ferris himself as told to other pilots around the Dallas area, including Smitty, shortly after the assassination. Smitty was one of these pilots, as I recall, who tried to correct the mistake to Garrison investigators and federal people for the HSCA. I am not sure of all the details, but it was well known around White Rock and Garland who the pilot was that flew a charter out of Dallas that day. However, over the years the Dave Ferrie story has stuck and cannot be undone. At one time a flight plan was released to investigators which stated 'Ferrie" It was proved false ( so I was told by FBI Denver) The flight plan was from a stack of new federal flight plan forms which came from Garland airport (as per form dates of 1963 found on lower bottom of FAA forum (aka the old CAB of the fifties)

I have reason to believe that Dave Ferris flew someone out of Dallas Red Bird that day.., not Dave Ferrie. Ferris was a charter pilot in those days working out of Red Bird and White Rock.., if my memory serves me right he flew a 'Commache' type aircraft. There were two a red and white and blue and white. I used to have pictures of Ferris standing next to these aircraft at Red Bird next to the Hughes hanger. These pictures were burned in the house fire in Grant Colo in August 7th of 1981 (referenced Rocky Mountain News article by Tim Mc Govern) There is more drama to the JFK if the pilot is the infamous Dave Ferrie rather than an unknown Dave Ferris. It sells better.

[James Richards]

I have just gotten off the phone after having a very pleasant conversation with T.M. Smith (Smitty). He is a true gentleman and was most eager to be of assistance.

Smitty was unable to remember any specific details regarding the day JFK was killed. He did say that he had flown out of Garland and did witness AF1 on its approach to Love Field. He heard about the shooting when he arrived back at Garland.

Smitty said he was not interviewd by the FBI and was not aware of any suspicious activity. He doesn't recall the names John Roselli and David Ferris, but he does know a Larry Ferris who became a Captain at Delta.

I have spoken with Larry Hancock about this and we feel that this should be put to bed. We don't believe Smitty (even though he is a sprightly 85) is in a position to recall events of some 43 years ago.

Cheers,

James

Edited June 9, 2006 by James Richards

[William Plumlee]

I have just gotten off the phone after having a very pleasant conversation with T.M. Smith (Smitty). He is a true gentleman and was most eager to be of assistance.

Smitty was unable to remember any specific details regarding the day JFK was killed. He did say that he had flown out of Garland and did witness AF1 on its approach to Love Field. He heard about the shooting when he arrived back at Garland.

Smitty said he was not interviewd by the FBI and was not aware of any suspicious activity. He doesn't recall the names John Roselli and David Ferris, but he does know a Larry Ferris who became a Captain at Delta.

I have spoken with Larry Hancock about this and we feel that this should be put to bed. We don't believe Smitty (even though he is a spritely 85) is in a position to recall events of some 43 years ago.

Cheers,

James

The name David Lawrence Ferris... Delta airman records. Dave passed away a few years back. Papa Reeves of White Rock Aviation's son is still around and it is said remembers something about Garland and Smitty. However, its been "put to bed" as far as I am concerned.

Here is a photo of the Stearman -220 that Dave Lawrence and I used to fly at White Rock/Garland. The old flight log still existed as of 1974 shortly before White Rock was closed down. Ferris's father owned this aircraft for awhile I think... Ya'll have a good one.... write when you find work....

PHOTO http://www.airfields-freeman.com/TX/Airfie...E.htm#whiterock

A circa-1972 photo by Ken Adwan of a Stearman at White Rock.

Ken recalled, "The Stearman was one of the old airplanes… at the back of the airport.

However, unlike many of the old planes at that end of the field, it was very airworthy when this picture taken.”

Russell Bowen recalled, “The Stearman belonged to a fellow named Mott Walters; he had two of them, a black & red one."

Edited June 9, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Mark Knight]

I tried an alternate spelling, and came up with this:

Captain Larry Farris Cited For Outstanding Service

RELEASE #96.44H

September 30, 1996

Captain Larry Farris Cited by Air Line Pilots Association for Outstanding Service

WASHINGTON, D.C.---Captain Larry Farris, a Delta Air Lines pilot based in Dallas, Tx., has been awarded the Presidential Citation for Outstanding Service in air safety from the Air Line Pilots Association.

The award was given for Farris' two decades of service to promote aviation safety. It was presented at ALPA's annual Air Safety Forum on Aug. 21 in Washington, D.C.

A 33 year Delta pilot, Captain Farris currently flies the Boeing 757 and 767 jetliners. He is chairman of ALPA's Dangerous Goods Committee, which deals with the transport of hazardous materials on aircraft. He also is chairman of the Dangerous Goods Committee of the International Federation of Air Line Pilots Associations. Because of his many years of work in this area, he is viewed as one of the preeminent experts in this field.

Born in Sweetwater, Tex., Farris attended North Texas University and served 8 years in the Air Force Reserves. He and wife, Karen, have three children.

The Air Line Pilots Association is the national labor union representing most commercial airline pilots and is the industry's leading aviation safety advocate. It represents 45,000 airline pilots at 38 air carriers.

###

ALPA CONTACTS: John Mazor, Bob Flocke (703) 481-4440

Same guy??

Edited June 9, 2006 by Mark Knight

[John Dolva]

" the American Expeditionary Force in England; before that with the English--American Volunteer Group. "

Should this be the BEF, not the AEF (which may be a WWI group), also the EAVG:: the AVG in other words Chennaults Tigers?

If so, of course other questions of interest may be directed at Smitty.

[James Richards]

Same guy?? (Mark Knight)

I believe that's him, Mark.

In the early 1960's, Farris was with Texas Airmotive.

FWIW.

James