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The Southern Half of Dealey Plaza


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Robin, I'm not sure what you are getting at. I can't help seeing a bunch of sheep flocks*. I think a lot of reactions can be correctly described by typical sheep behaviour. And that frame shows a view from slightly south of east, the middle of the eastern side, not south, of the norh-western half, so not sure of the relevance here. Could you please elaborate?

* [ http://www.sheep101.info/flocking.html "Why do sheep follow each other? "Who else are we supposed to follow? . . . the dog!" George asks......Sheep have a strong instinct to follow the leader. When one sheep decides to go somewhere, the rest of the flock usually follows, ..." (mine: the shepherd can't be ignored, whether the shepherd is a person, a gun or 'a submission to peers'.) One can readily see the subtle and not so subtle 'encouragements' everywhere to be a sheep. (No less so in the assassination research community.) Reason is not necessary. ]

Shortly after filming these 'sheep' responding to hints of something happening in the north knoll, Hughes panned across the intersection where main street enters the plaza, filming a group of 'very tall sheep' capable of seeing over tall structures and able to hear withn unerring sense of direction, as they join the courageous dash to catch whoever did what. A wonderful study in human sheepery.

In another way the need for unity is highlighted when one recognising that different people are describing different aspects of the same 'landscape', and they in no way need to be seen as reasons for disunity.

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Good question Brendan, no doubt someone has.

Whether because of a blindness induced by Pre-Judice the right areas have yet been scanned or not...?? I'd be curious of the results of a scan of the area bounded by the steps of the North Knoll, the sidewalk up to where Newmans were, and up to Zapruder and back across to the steps.

Edited by John Dolva
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I'm curious: did anyone ever sweep the green spaces with metal detectors in the immediate years after 1963?

The answer is a partial 'yes.' There is the Heminger letter, in which he found a shell casing of a 30.06 by the tree in front of the picket fence in the 70s. I don't know that anyone fully swept the lawn between Elm and Main. I can tell you that when I did a bit of checking myself, I ended up with so many hits it was almost impossible to do a thorough job in the space of a few hours. As per Heminger, you pick-up all sorts of Kennedy Assassination 'momentos.' Little flags, flattened pennies, etc. Not to mention a lot of loose change. It was suggested to me that I was wasting my time, and that the FBI would have already done it. It would be difficult to say. The metal detector of 1963 wasn't like what we have now - and finding coins like I did dated from 1963 and earlier doesn't mean anything conclusive. The coins in your pocket could date back 20 years easily. Just for fun - checking - one quarter in my pocket right now is dated 1971. I thought about trying to retrieve the 'pellet' seen by Carr? I think? Don't know that it would be anything but a waste of time.

- lee

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Wiegman::

A handful of frames, not all immediately sequential, but close, interspersed with healvily blurred ones, are of some value. one in particular shows a difference at the pillar in question. Could this be the figure that the McIntyre photo shows?

To me, the image on the overpass is clearly [if fuzzy] a figure of someone either leaning on the side and looking down or is doing something with things out of sight on the ground.

Peter, if one looks at WC Holland exhibit b,c one finds a photo of Hollands son standing on the underpass looking over the plaza. Of interest is that it is taken from above indicating that perhaps the rail is the 3 or so feet above the baselevel as indicated by William to be so for some of the rails and Holland is standing on top of this to take the photo.

This is about the height of that person indicated in both the Mcintyre photo and the Wiegman frame. IOW if these are indeed persons (or a person at all) there are a number of reasons to think it is the same one. As I see it, the person is crossing the rails from east to west, and has just started doing so.

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Robin, I've carefully looked at the photo posted. The 'pinmask' used in printing introduces artifacts that makes it difficult to differentiate the detail at pixel level, and therefore not as useful as what's already available. However I am grateful for the offer. BTW I check your site regularly, and recommend that others also do so, for the images are relevant, nicely presented and easily navigable.

Edited by John Dolva
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QUOTE:

Robin, I've carefully looked at the photo posted. The 'pinmask' used in printing introduces artifacts that makes it difficult to differentiate the detail at pixel level, and therefore not as useful as what's already available. However I am grateful for the offer. BTW I check your site regularly, and recommend that others also do so, for the images are relevant, nicely presented and easily navigable.

No problem John.

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In the McIntyre photo there is a possibility that a person is seen crossing the rails at the northern of the two pillars on the south end of the underpass.

It is also possible that this person is revealed by a difference between two frames of the Wiegman film.

It ALSO appears that this is so for the Cancellare photo.

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A closer look at the pillars for dimensions on a map or photo is not easy from here.

One might assume that the twin pillars should be of the same size. The central pillars are slightly wider, but the two at either end seem to be a slimmer pair.

If the pairs are indeed the same, and angled the same then the pillar of the southern pair should (as per perspective) be slightly narrower from Cancellares view point, It's not. It's wider. Or is it?

Another explanation, supported by the other two photos in location and time, indicate it could be a person standing close to the northern edge of the northern of the southern pair.

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Robin::"Hughes frame looking from the south towards the grassy knoll. There seems to be quite a crowd forming in the vacinity of the southern truck area."

I've been reading this again and again trying to understand, and I think I got it now.

"The southern truck area" is in fact the southern lawn where the truck is seen in so many photos and films driving up commerce street. I can understand the use of "looking from the south" and my response is too pedantic. Simialrly my overheated anticipation of dissent, seeing how so many threads are ruined by nonsense, makes me more likely to read things into what I can't readily understand. The lesson to me is to sloooww down. Think, don't react.

So, any bruises anywhere , my apologies.

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There seem to be streams of people pouring in from all directions. Looks like the potential ear witnesses in particular far far outnumber those used.

Edited by John Dolva
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QUOTE:

I've been reading this again and again trying to understand, and I think I got it now.

"The southern truck area" is in fact the southern lawn where the truck is seen in so many photos and films driving up commerce street.

Yes john.

That was exactly my meaning.

No bruises

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Robin, that's great. Is that a film frame from the man filming in front of Cancellare? What's his name and are more frames available and can you tell where to get more?

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Robin, that's great. Is that a film frame from the man filming in front of Cancellare? What's his name and are more frames available and can you tell where to get more?

John...it is from the Atkins movie.

Jack

Some of the players identified in Atkins.

Jack

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Thankyou Jack.

So, it is in color. It looks like a pretty serious camera he's holding. So presumably the quality available in the original is pretty good? How does one go about getting a hold of a copy of the film?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Robin, that's great. Is that a film frame from the man filming in front of Cancellare? What's his name and are more frames available and can you tell where to get more?

John...it is from the Atkins movie.

Jack

Some of the players identified in Atkins.

Jack

Hi Jack, and all interested.

I have the DVD, and watched it a couple of times. And every time these frames came up, I wondered wheather the pink and black spots surrounding the family Newmann could be parts of Kennedy's brain sprayed after Z313?

This I wonder, because a couple of frames later, you can see on his face, what I think to be the same stuff (brain...). Quite a distance to travel, from the middle of the road to the grass (on the down-side).

Strange as well, The family Newmann is clearly visible standing before Kennedy's head exploded in Muchmore film. But the bullet would have missed him "by a mile". Either from TSBD, DAL-TEX, grassy knoll could a bullet come to give him the need to dive for cover, just like Anthony Summers on the other side of Elm. He is sitting in Jack's picture (makes me think of Arnold's story).

Could this have anything to do with it:

This is done with photoshop (don't tell). I'm not sure how. I could only save the pic to server, and then the workstation needed a reinstall. Bommer. This frame is not from the digitized Zapruder film. (An Image Of..)

A couple of frames later you can see Anthony Summers diving to the ground. Altgens unmoved. That makes that diagonal, extra intersting I think. Anyone additional info about this?

That brings me back to the reason for this post. In the Zapruder Film short after Z313 I see a pink blob that could be tissue (close to Altgens). According to several maps the place of Harper-fragment, others place that much closer to the Tripple Underpass. Anyone a definate answer?

The reason is this. If that blob is from Kennedy's body, how did it get there? Not from the shot fired for Z313, because the accelleration (physics) would destroy it totally. Yet it is visible, and to my best judgement NOT MOVING. Anyone got idea what it is (Harper fragment???), and how it got there?

Because if Harper is further, then a diagonal bullet as described above could set that skull-fragment off in that direction. And still make Summers and The Newmann's duck for cover.

A bullet in the opposite direction, leads me back in the direction of those two trucks, on Main. And could account for additional brainmatter covering the area around the Newmann family (see above). And a life-threatning situation, in addition to the scene just in front of his eyes. And a bullet (fragment) should land north of Elm, near the Newmann's. Any news on that?

Gr. Maarten

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