Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nellie's roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Bill I have a copy of the December 14, 1963 issue of the Saturday Evening Post and have scanned the Miller photo in full size. It appears that the foot of the secret service agent is caught on the anntena of the limo, you can clearly see it, but in looking at other photos the anntena apears to be on the other side (bloody limo seat photo) I don't understand. I would like to post it but the scan is too large to post, or even e-mail, I'm working on shrinking there size without losing quality. Has anyone noticed the anntena I'm talking about. Email me the photo - the larger the file - the better. Send to ... imsjle@aol.com That is whats being called the Yarborough photo image and its the best version I have seen as far as clarity and there is no doubt that it is a foot. There are several reasons for saying this. One is that the underside of the forefoot of the shoe sole shows its slight upward curve. The sunlit shoes well on the side of the leather show and doesn't expand like in the poorer quality versions. Lastly, the underside of what some believe to be the hand is illuminated by sunlight and if this were a hand, then the underside of the fingers would also be sunlit. There are also shade marks on the oher side of what has been said to be a hand, thus it is impossible then to say the fingers are shaded because both sides of the hand cannot be shaded. In other words, whether the illusion appears to be a closed fist or a open hand - if the palm is sunlit, then the fingers on the same side must also be sunlit. And yes, what is seen as the shadow of the seat by some does not look that way in the good pprint. The difference in lightness and dark is that the leather sides of the shoe has a high reflective capibility, while the soles are dark and cannot reflect light in the same fashion. Bill Nellie's roses. That's the light reflecting off of Nellie's hair, Jack. I might also add that it has nothing to do with Connally's head. Bill Miller Edited July 13, 2006 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 That cannot be the limo antenna...which is way back IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRUNK! What you are seeing IMO is the antenna on a flanking motorcycle. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) That cannot be the limo antenna...which is way back IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRUNK!What you are seeing IMO is the antenna on a flanking motorcycle. Jack Wrong again, Jack .......... there is no cycle directly beyond Clint Hill in the Miller photo - the cycle is behind the rear drivers side of the car. The anntena can be seen in the Croft photo. Bill Miller Edited July 13, 2006 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The position of the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Antennas. Edited July 13, 2006 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Not Nellie's hair...her yellow roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The better photo shifts my opinion closer to the shoe. The more pixels to look at lessens the appearance of fingers, so that may have been a a result of pixelbleed, the heel may be worn, (my heels always wear down more one side than the other). Not conclusive enough though. A color version would probably be conclusive. I think Bill's right about Jackies hat, what I thought was the hat looks more like the far seat edge. I'd really like to find out in detail what exactly is the overall contours of the limo in that area, it changes a lot and there is some kind of SS hand grip on the inside of the chrome strip just there. The chrome strip starts off at both ends as a upside down 'U', and goes through changes. JL Allen makes a good attempt to look at that area. The near side antenna is an interesting thing, I wonder of Clint may have snapped it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Antennas. No, Jack .... it was Floyd Stephens who thought the foot of Clint Hill may be hooked around the antenna, which he later changed that position - please pay closer attention. In post #199 - I drew an arrow to the antenna on the drivers side of the car and said that it was the anntena seen beyond Hill in the Miller photo. By the way, the antennas were retractable. They were down when JFK entered the plaza and came up when the radio was in use on the way to the hospital. Bill Miller Not Nellie's hair...her yellow roses. Yes, Jack ... Nellie's roses can be seen in the Zapruder film, but we were talking about the Miller photo and it being Connally who was sitting up. Below are some better images of Nellie's roses. Bill Miller Edited July 13, 2006 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Edited July 13, 2006 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The hand of outstretched Clint Hill in the speeding limo photo angles back into the car at the top knuckle. The upper joints of the fingers traverse the elevated base for the optional "bubbletop" and then descend almost perpendicularly where they leave shadows on the triangular chrome strip. The base for the bubbletop is 2 or three inches wide - and the space between the bubbletop base and the triangular chrome strip is almost the width of the rearview mirror. The distance vertically from the flat surface of the bubbletop base down to the tip of the triangular chrome strip is another couple of inches. The length of the joint between the top two knuckles of a man's hand is approximately equal to the combined length of the lower two segments. The entire length of the fingers is approximately equal to the distance from the top knuckles to the wrist. This hand is way out of proportion - recalling to mind Oswald's "13-inch head". Where are Hills fingertips? Tablesaw accident? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Allen Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 What's your point? You think Hill's fingers are too SHORT? (page 12, post #170) Believe me, they are not. Even if they descend straight down from the bubbletop shelf, which is what you seem to be implying - they are still freakishly long. Even to span the shelf and bend straight down the fingers would need to be at least 5 or 6 inches long because the length of the middle fingers bending down is about the same as as the part of the fingers traversing the shelf. To reach out to the chrome strip - we must add in the width of the rearview mirror. And, what is your explanation for the small, soup-bowl shaped shadows beneath each finger on the triangular chrome strip which is at least several inches from edge of the shelf's base and has no other shaded areas appearing on it in that vicinity? I think it is bad artwork - done by someone who didn't realize the great distance between the chrome strip and the bubbletop base. Can you post something that illustrates your position with regard to what you think we are looking at? The depiction of this hand and it's fingers definitely arouses questioning - but, hardly that the fingers are too short and missing their "tips". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) What's your point? You think Hill's fingers are too SHORT? (page 12, post #170) Believe me, they are not. Even if they descend straight down from the bubbletop shelf, which is what you seem to be implying - they are still freakishly long. Even to span the shelf and bend straight down the fingers would need to be at least 5 or 6 inches long because the length of the middle fingers bending down is about the same as as the part of the fingers traversing the shelf. To reach out to the chrome strip - we must add in the width of the rearview mirror. And, what is your explanation for the small, soup-bowl shaped shadows beneath each finger on the triangular chrome strip which is at least several inches from edge of the shelf's base and has no other shaded areas appearing on it in that vicinity? I think it is bad artwork - done by someone who didn't realize the great distance between the chrome strip and the bubbletop base. Can you post something that illustrates your position with regard to what you think we are looking at? The depiction of this hand and it's fingers definitely arouses questioning - but, hardly that the fingers are too short and missing their "tips". Not bad art, simply bad deductions on your part. The fingers don't appear to be even close to the second chrome strip but rather just resting on the down slope from the bubble top ledge. You dont see the fingertips because they are hidden by the top edge of the lower chome strip. Too long, I dont think so. More like a silly CT's run amuck. Shadow? What shadow? None there. A reflection from Hill knuckles...yes. Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection and all that rot ya know. And yes the angles do work. Like I said eariler, buy a clue because dude you are clueless. Entertaining stuff though, I'm lmao. Edited July 13, 2006 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A good original might show the cufflinks holding together the gap in the sleeve seen in Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A good original might show the cufflinks holdingtogether the gap in the sleeve seen in Miller. Uh, if thats a shirt cuff it is turned at least 1/2 a turn from where it should be, which would be BEHIND HILLS FOOT! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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