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Your "X" is the northbound entrance ramp onto Stemmons from Elm.

Just out of range at the top of the photo, it merges with northbound

Stemmons left lane. I do not know the exact Corham location, but

it was on the opposite side of Stemmons, facing the southbound

side of the freeway service road, probably quickly after the Elm

entrance ramp.

Jack

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a CONTEXT consideration...

The questioning has been roughly proceeding LINEARLY. There is some forward and back but it's basically linear.

From Clint's testimony::

Mr. SPECTER. And how were you able to identify that there was a policeman there?

Mr. HILL. He was wearing the uniform--presumably a policeman.

Mr. SPECTER. What color uniform was it?

Mr. HILL. I think it was blue of some shade.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you identify it at that time as being of the identical color which other, Dallas policemen were wearing whom you had observed in the area?

Mr. HILL. That's correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward- that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. In time or--

Mr. SPECTER. Time and distance.

Mr. HILL. Distance, I have no idea.

Mr. SPECTER. How about time?

Mr. HILL. I would say roughly 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything as you were proceeding from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off." Between there and the hospital she just said, "Jack, Jack, what have they done to you," and sobbed.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

Mr. SPECTER. Now, was there any other comment you heard Special Agent Kellerman make?

Mr. HILL. Not that I recall.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Special Agent Greer say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Was Governor Connally conscious?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; he was.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Governor Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did President Kennedy say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

Comment:::: "What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most."

This is one of the minor digressions

Then back to the timeline::

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

:: "...as you moved forward?" As YOU moved forward.

Backtracking in the testimony to get the CONTEXT::

"Mr. HILL. Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left.

Mr. SPECTER. Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us?

Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there."

This is the 'moving forward' by Clint. As this was not delved into by Specter, it's not enough to state definitely that Clint has not finished his 'moving forward, and has his foot inside by " It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?"

__________

following all this comes a shift to Parkland, wit some monor backtracking, but largely following the linear style::

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?

Mr. HILL. I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.

Mr. SPECTER. What action, if any, did you take to shield the President's body?

Mr. HILL. I kept myself above the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the trip to Parkland.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you do anything with your coat upon arrival at Parkland Hospital to shield the President?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I removed it and covered the President's head and upper chest.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you observe as to Governor Connally's condition on arrival at Parkland?

Mr. HILL. He was conscious. There was a large amount of blood in the lower abdominal area. He was helped from the automobile to the stretcher, and I do not recall him saying anything, but I know that he was conscious. He was wheeled immediately into, I think, emergency room No. 2.

Mr. SPECTER. And who was removed first from the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. How long after the President's car arrived at Parkland Hospital did medical personnel come to the scene to remove the victim?

Mr. HILL. Seconds. They were there when we were there almost--almost simultaneously with the arrival.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know where President Kennedy was taken in the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I accompanied he, and Mrs. Kennedy to the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, tell us what you did at the hospital from the time of arrival on, please.

Mr. HILL. I went into the emergency room with the President, but it was so small, and there were so many people in there that I decided I had better leave and let the doctors take care of the situation. So I walked outside;

Edited by John Dolva
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I suspect Lifton has caused the Lone Neuter camp and the pro Moorman 5 camp in particular a bit of angst, Why [my opinion]? If the Moorman 5 doesn't match up with Z-313 +/- a frame or two, the Zapruder film, more than likely is altered.

Moorman's photo matches Z315.6 ... I believe Moorman said she took her photo upon hearing a shot. Does not 2.6 seconds sound about right considering a bullet travels 3x faster than sound and then Moorman has to react so to take her photo? I think so.

The street/grass issue is relevant in some minds because the Z-film shows Moorman on the south of Elm Street in-field grass, Jack's study claims she, Mary was on Elm street at the time she took the photo... IF she took the photo from the street (as some think) she SHOULD appear in the street on Zapruder frame 313 and earlier, she isn't.

Jack's study shows Moorman's camera lens height to be 4" lower than a Dallas Motorcycles windshield, however, the camera in Moorman's photo is elevated above those 58" tall DPD cycles shields. Either Moorman's camera took that photo with Mary's arms raised over her head or Jack's study was in error, as usual. Moorman, herself, has told Mark Oakes that Jack's claim is silly and that she was in the grass over the curb when she took her photo. Moorman's photo showing her camera looking downward over those DPD cycles windshields supports Mary saying she was in the grass, which BTW is supported by all the remaining films and photos taken at that time.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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a CONTEXT consideration...

The questioning has been roughly proceeding LINEARLY. There is some forward and back but it's basically linear.

From Clint's testimony::

Mr. SPECTER. And how were you able to identify that there was a policeman there?

Mr. HILL. He was wearing the uniform--presumably a policeman.

Mr. SPECTER. What color uniform was it?

Mr. HILL. I think it was blue of some shade.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you identify it at that time as being of the identical color which other, Dallas policemen were wearing whom you had observed in the area?

Mr. HILL. That's correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward- that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. In time or--

Mr. SPECTER. Time and distance.

Mr. HILL. Distance, I have no idea.

Mr. SPECTER. How about time?

Mr. HILL. I would say roughly 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything as you were proceeding from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off." Between there and the hospital she just said, "Jack, Jack, what have they done to you," and sobbed.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

Mr. SPECTER. Now, was there any other comment you heard Special Agent Kellerman make?

Mr. HILL. Not that I recall.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Special Agent Greer say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Was Governor Connally conscious?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; he was.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Governor Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did President Kennedy say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

Comment:::: "What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most."

This is one of the minor digressions

Then back to the timeline::

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

:: "...as you moved forward?" As YOU moved forward.

Backtracking in the testimony to get the CONTEXT::

"Mr. HILL. Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left.

Mr. SPECTER. Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us?

Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there."

This is the 'moving forward' by Clint. As this was not delved into by Specter, it's not enough to state definitely that Clint has not finished his 'moving forward, and has his foot inside by " It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?"

__________

following all this comes a shift to Parkland, wit some monor backtracking, but largely following the linear style::

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?

Mr. HILL. I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.

Mr. SPECTER. What action, if any, did you take to shield the President's body?

Mr. HILL. I kept myself above the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the trip to Parkland.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you do anything with your coat upon arrival at Parkland Hospital to shield the President?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I removed it and covered the President's head and upper chest.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you observe as to Governor Connally's condition on arrival at Parkland?

Mr. HILL. He was conscious. There was a large amount of blood in the lower abdominal area. He was helped from the automobile to the stretcher, and I do not recall him saying anything, but I know that he was conscious. He was wheeled immediately into, I think, emergency room No. 2.

Mr. SPECTER. And who was removed first from the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. How long after the President's car arrived at Parkland Hospital did medical personnel come to the scene to remove the victim?

Mr. HILL. Seconds. They were there when we were there almost--almost simultaneously with the arrival.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know where President Kennedy was taken in the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I accompanied he, and Mrs. Kennedy to the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, tell us what you did at the hospital from the time of arrival on, please.

Mr. HILL. I went into the emergency room with the President, but it was so small, and there were so many people in there that I decided I had better leave and let the doctors take care of the situation. So I walked outside;

Could this get on-topic again please?

The instability Hill experienced on the last left turn before Parkland could be lessened by having the leg hooked as suggested. IOW he doesn't state why he is unstable then except because of a high speed left turn. Given a triangilation of contact focii as a stable configuration. With the foot inside the Limousine at this point, the distance between points of contact is reduced or the number of contact points (3 to 2) is reduced. This is unstable.

_

is the address of the CORHAM building known?

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It seems Hill hooked his foot over the door in order to climb into the compartment ("as he moved forward"). There's nothing indicating he held this pose for more than a second.

Does anyone have the 11-29 issue of Time? Someone tore the pages out of the one at my local library. I'm curious what the Miller photo in Time looked like. Please post it if you have it.

By the way, the drawn-in foot version of the photo posted in comparison to the Yarborough Exhibit came from the Archives of the Miami Herald.

Edited by Pat Speer
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It seems Hill hooked his foot over the door in order to climb into the compartment ("as he moved forward"). There's nothing indicating he held this pose for more than a second.

Does anyone have the 11-29 issue of Time? Someone tore the pages out of the one at my local library. I'm curious what the Miller photo in Time looked like. Please post it if you have it.

By the way, the drawn-in foot version of the photo posted in comparison to the Yarborough Exhibit came from the Archives of the Miami Herald.

You are cracking me up Pat! Say, have you tried to see it YOU can get your foot into the same position as Hills yet or are you still waiting for someone to do it for you?

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This other picture has a leg which seems fishy, also. A knee-joint is not like a shoulder's ball-joint. The leg can't go through the seat - and can't go into the trunk. It seems it could only bend along the length and angle of the backseat - but the angle is too extreme. Contorting both legs at the same time into the positions displayed seems impossible.

I can only post two or three photos before my "global space" is used up. Needed to reclaim this space to post another picture.

Edited by JL Allen
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It seems Hill hooked his foot over the door in order to climb into the compartment ("as he moved forward"). There's nothing indicating he held this pose for more than a second.

Does anyone have the 11-29 issue of Time? Someone tore the pages out of the one at my local library. I'm curious what the Miller photo in Time looked like. Please post it if you have it.

By the way, the drawn-in foot version of the photo posted in comparison to the Yarborough Exhibit came from the Archives of the Miami Herald.

You are cracking me up Pat! Say, have you tried to see it YOU can get your foot into the same position as Hills yet or are you still waiting for someone to do it for you?

I have tried, and failed miserably. To put one's foot in such a position one needs to turn one's right leg inwards to such an extent that it makes facing forwards impossible. Evidently, you believe one's knee can rotate as well as bend. I await your re-enactment.

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I have tried, and failed miserably. To put one's foot in such a position one needs to turn one's right leg inwards to such an extent that it makes facing forwards impossible. Evidently, you believe one's knee can rotate as well as bend. I await your re-enactment.

Ah BS! It is not that hard to do and whether you can do it or not is not as important as Clint Hill being able to do it. And if you couldn't do it, did you ask someone else nearby you to try it? I have never seen so much time wasted over stupid stuff that should have been settled long ago by applying a little common sense and a minute bit of effort. As riddled with arthritis from chemotherapy as I am - i just got up and walked over to an armchair and did just what Hill is seen doing in Miller's photo. If I see you in Dallas again ... I will be happy to take less than three seconds and show you how its done. By the way, the knee isn't rotated - its the hip.

Bill Miller

Lightening the chroma and introducing pseudocolor

clearly shows Hill's thigh, knee, and lower leg.

Jack

Jack - your post number 128 and 129 are so ridiculous that I can only say that the only thing you have done is show why you shouldn't even be looking at this stuff. Below is a rough example of how Hill got his foot over the side of the limo ... Hill took that posture so he could use his left hand and right foot for leverage to keep from losing his balance and to stay centered over the Presidential couple as the limo made high speed turns and manuevers as it raced to the Hospital.

post-1084-1152559412_thumb.jpg

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Bill, please show us how Hill could have his right knee turned to the left but his waist and upper torso turned to his right as in the photo. I tried it and failed. Please post a picture demonstrating how it's done so I can be exposed as an uncoordinated clod.

Edited by Pat Speer
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It seems Hill hooked his foot over the door in order to climb into the compartment ("as he moved forward"). There's nothing indicating he held this pose for more than a second.

Does anyone have the 11-29 issue of Time? Someone tore the pages out of the one at my local library. I'm curious what the Miller photo in Time looked like. Please post it if you have it.

By the way, the drawn-in foot version of the photo posted in comparison to the Yarborough Exhibit came from the Archives of the Miami Herald.

You are cracking me up Pat! Say, have you tried to see it YOU can get your foot into the same position as Hills yet or are you still waiting for someone to do it for you?

I have tried, and failed miserably. To put one's foot in such a position one needs to turn one's right leg inwards to such an extent that it makes facing forwards impossible. Evidently, you believe one's knee can rotate as well as bend. I await your re-enactment.

Uh..the leg also rotates at the hip and the foot rotates at the ankle. I've no problem getting into this position...but hey lets forget all of that and why don't you or ANYONE tell us just what might be hanging over the lower chrome strip....because it has to be something and its no shadow or reflection. You guys are trying to skip thisd vital piece of information.

Dolva failed...how about you? Or White? Maybe Healy will offer an opinion! LOL!

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Uh..the leg also rotates at the hip and the foot rotates at the ankle. I've no problem getting into this position...but hey lets forget all of that and why don't you or ANYONE tell us just what might be hanging over the lower chrome strip....because it has to be something and its no shadow or reflection. You guys are trying to skip thisd vital piece of information.

Dolva failed...how about you? Or White? Maybe Healy will offer an opinion! LOL!

I ask again. Quit theorizing about it. Post a picture simulating Hill's position. I can't do it. When I turn my leg far enough to the left to get my foot over the side of the couch, my trunk turns to my left as well.

As stated, it doesn't really matter to me if it was a foot or a hand or a towel, for that matter. The point is that the object in the photo was clearly re-drawn to look like Kennedy's foot BEFORE the AP could possibly have known or suspected it was ANYONE'S foot. They were wrong. It was not Kennedy's foot. If, by chance, it turned out to be Hill's foot then that's just their dumb luck.

P.S. Craig, do you believe, as Bill, that Hill's black socks appear white in the picture? Does that make sense to you? I'm not arguing either way, but that just seems strange.

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