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JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts


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Bill, I'm assuming your message was directed to me.

This is a yes or no question, and please respond to it: Do you have FileMaker Pro or not?

If your answer is "no," you never will open the FileMaker Pro database file I uploaded.

NO, I DON'T HAVE FILEMAKER PRO.

BUT IT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT REX BRADFORD HAS IT, AS HE IS WRESTLING WITH MARY FERRELL'S ULTIMATE TIMELINE AT THE MOMENT, AND ANY JFK ASSASSINATION TIMELINE THAT DOES NOT FIGURE HER INFO ISN'T WORTH DOING.

....I vow that when and if I have something of note, I will on this, but I can't seem to get across the fact that I simply do not have the time to invest in it. I'm already over two weeks behind my own self-imposed deadlines on getting a series I started in the Watergate forum finished because of demands on my existence. I try to get by this forum when I can, but only then get to a handful of threads that are of interest to me.

If there's anything I actually can do to be of help, I am happy to within the constraints that I absolutely must deal with.

Ashton

ASHTON, INDEED, TIME IS SHORT, LIFE IS SWEET AND WE ARE LIMITED TO WHAT WE CAN DO.

IF SOMEONE WHO DOES HAVE FILEMAKER PRO, AND DOES DOWNLOAD THE JFK TIMELINE, AND DOES ASSIMULATE IT WITH THE OTHER FIVE OR SIX KNOWN EXTANT TIMELINES, IT WOULD BE OF GREAT ASSISTANCE TO ALL JFK ASSASSINATION RESEARCHERS, WHATEVER THEIR AREA OF INTEREST.

I WILL PERSONALLY AWARD SUCH A PERSON WITH A FEATHER FOR THEIR YANKEE DOODLE CAP,

BK

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  • 2 months later...

I know of a number of JFK Assassination Chronologies/Timelines -

Thanks. Yes. I've seen them. In fact, they are one of the primary motivations for my having created this thread and uploaded the database file. It's why I said in my introductory message:

  • People putting them together will say something happened in "1961," or maybe as localized as "October 1961," and leave it at that, when the precise date is absolutely crucial to any hope of actual understanding how it relates to other events.
    That's why this database format is such a merciless time machine: it is self-correcting as it grows, and it refuses to take any vague broad-stroke generalities about time. Things happen at specific points in time. There are relationships between events that often remain completely occluded and invisible until the correct sequences of events and their time relationships are identified.

Ashton Gray

Kuddos to Rex Bradford for scanning and posting Mary Ferrell's massive and detailed chronologies at the Mary Ferrell archive web site, Maryferrell.org

There are eight volumes, one to 1959, others post 1959, one for just 11/22/63, another for Mexico City, and post 11/22/63. Hundreds and hundreds of pages. Alot of good information that has yet to be mined.

I would like someone who has a copy of the CD ROM Chronolgy LANCER sells, to compare this with what Rex has scanned and posted. Does anybody have the LANCER digital version?

Thanks again to Rex, what a guy!

Bill Kelly

Edited by William Kelly
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

In a thread where it was off-topic, Bill Kelly posted the following, directed at me:

And when I said that a Joint Chronology Project should be undertaken to combine all known JFK assassination chronolgies into one computer program, I didn't expect some small group of annonymous teckies doing it, and selectively feeding us back packaged information - I expected the entire program to be shared by everybody.

What you said or didn't say has no bearing whatsoever on a database timeline that a group of people have been doing at their own expense, on their own initiative, in their own time for something like ten years, with invested volunteered man-hours running probably into the tens of thousands.

You and everybody else in the world were provided free of all strings, right here in this thread in the very first message, with the exact same database template that they have been using for years for a variety of timelining purposes not directly related to the JFK assassination, but certainly to Watergate (and so to the JFK assassination indirectly by the invidious connections we all know exist).

In the JFK Joint Chronology Timeline Project topic you started, I posted the exact fields necessary to convert any other format of timeline/chronology for import into the database template that these people are using, and in every case and opportunity—starting with this thread before you began the JFK Joint Chronology Timeline Project topic—I have urged a coordinated effort to collect and compile existing JFK assassination chronology materials into the kind of complete and reconciled timeline database without which this case will never be solved.

Six months ago, when John Simkin was seeking my participation in a project related to the JFK assassination, I said I would be more than happy to participate on any basis, with the one condition that provisions were made for at least a minimal accurate timeline to be done first. Everything went silent.

As you well know, I made every good faith effort, through your coordination, to make it possible for the Mary Ferrell foundation to import her chronological materials into this lean, mean database machine, and invested considerable time that I didn't have at the time trying to facilitate that, or, failing their own industry at it, to have them supply ASCII versions of the materials with my promise to find somebody and some way to get that data converted to the necessary date and data formats and imported into that database machine. The line went dead as a hammer.

I've said right here in this thread (last message, first forum page) that some acquaintances of mine—who freely supplied the database template in the first place—have turned their attention to devoting their own time, without the slightest compensation, to doing what they can to start to incorporate specific JFK assassination data into their version of the timeline—which already contained over 10,000 entries wholly unrelated to the JFK assassination. Their personal privacy choices happen to be none of your business, and none of my business.

Since I first posted the database template, I've a few gotten periodic updates of the populated database with JFK-related entries, but mainly text exports of relevant parts of it germane to JFK assassination, and when and as I can, and as soon as I can, I have posted every bit of it that I felt had probative significance.

And you want to complain about that?

Well, here's the sure solution I offer to everybody who wants to piss and moan about anything I post: You and your high horse both stop reading my posts.

There. That's simple enough, isn't it?

Meanwhile, I'll go right on posting what I have available to me that I think is relevant, and I will go right on contributing what I can to their generous efforts, in the hopes that one day—despite the apathy of this "research community" on this particular matter—a comprehensive JFK timeline will be done and can be segregated and exported in full in a variety of formats.

And I'll leave you with this little story that some people's mommas should have read them when they were still in diapers:

  • The Little Red Hen
    The little red hen found a seed.
    It was a wheat seed.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will plant the seed?"
    The pig said, "Not I."
    The cat said, "Not I."
    The dog said, "Not I."
    The little red hen said, "I will."
    And she did.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will cut the wheat?"
    The pig said, "Not I."
    The cat said, "Not I."
    The dog said, "Not I."
    The little red hen said,
    "I will then."
    And she did.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will thresh the wheat?"
    The pig said, "Not I."
    The cat said, "Not I."
    The dog said, "Not I."
    The little red hen said,
    "I will then."
    And she did.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will grind the wheat?"
    The pig said, "Not I."
    The cat said, "Not I."
    The dog said, "Not I."
    The little red hen said,
    "I will then."
    And she did.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will bake the bread?"
    The pig said, "Not I."
    The cat said, "Not I."
    The dog said, "Not I."
    The little red hen said,
    "I will then."
    And she did.
    The little red hen said,
    "Who will eat the bread?"
    The pig said, "I will."
    The cat said, "I will."
    The dog said, "I will."
    The little red hen said,
    "You shall not eat the bread.
    I will eat it."
    And she did.

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray
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In a thread where it was off-topic, Bill Kelly posted the following, directed at me:
And when I said that a Joint Chronology Project should be undertaken to combine all known JFK assassination chronolgies into one computer program, I didn't expect some small group of annonymous teckies doing it, and selectively feeding us back packaged information - I expected the entire program to be shared by everybody.

What you said or didn't say has no bearing whatsoever on a database timeline that a group of people have been doing at their own expense, on their own initiative, in their own time for something like ten years,....

And you want to complain about that?

Well, here's the sure solution I offer to everybody who wants to piss and moan about anything I post: You and your high horse both stop reading my posts.

There. That's simple enough, isn't it?

Meanwhile, I'll go right on posting what I have available to me that I think is relevant, and I will go right on contributing what I can to their generous efforts, in the hopes that one day—despite the apathy of this "research community" on this particular matter—a comprehensive JFK timeline will be done and can be segregated and exported in full in a variety of formats.

And I'll leave you with this little story that some people's mommas should have read them when they were still in diapers:

Ashton

Ashton, it wasn't so much of a complaint as a pinch - and I would have thought you'd have thicker skin by now. You and their participation is appreciated, no need to rehash the situation. I'll just have to wait until I can upgrade my toys to play.

I must have missed the ditty.

Here's one from my hit list:

Some say it was radiation, some say there was acid on the microphone,

Some say a combination that turned their hearts to stone,

But whatever it was, it drove them to their knees.

Oh, Legionnaire's disease.

I wish I had a dollar for everyone that died within that year,

Got 'em hot by the collar, plenty an old maid shed a tear,

Now within my heart, it sure put on a squeeze.

Oh, that Legionnaire's disease.

Granddad fought in a revolutionary war, father in the War of 1812,

Uncle fought in Vietnam and then he fought a war all by himself,

But whatever it was, it came out of the trees.

Oh, that Legionnaire's disease.

dotclear.gif

Legionnaires Disease - Bob Dylan.

Copyright © 1981 Special Rider Music

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Gentlemen,

I have posted my thoughts on the topic in the online seminars section.

Let me just say that the programme that Ashton describes costs about $300, unless it is viewable on the free demo version, which I will find out soon enough.

Also, I have found another timeline compiled by a man named Peter Vea, who has/had something to do with the ARRB, someone is selling his timeline of ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Peter-Vea-Index-JF...1QQcmdZViewItem

John

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Also, I have found another timeline compiled by a man named Peter Vea, who has/had something to do with the ARRB, someone is selling his timeline of ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Peter-Vea-Index-JF...1QQcmdZViewItem

That someone is of course James Tague. He currently has 572 items for bid or sale on eBay about the JFK assassination.

One can get an autographed copy of Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman for $500.

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Also, I have found another timeline compiled by a man named Peter Vea, who has/had something to do with the ARRB, someone is selling his timeline of ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Peter-Vea-Index-JF...1QQcmdZViewItem

That someone is of course James Tague. He currently has 572 items for bid or sale on eBay about the JFK assassination.

One can get an autographed copy of Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman for $500.

What a steal. I have attempted to contact Noel Twyman to ask whether he would agree to make 'Bloody Treason' available online for free or as an e-book for $10 or so. The exortionate prices being charged for books like this is ridiculous and gives new researchers no chance to view some of the most important research in recent years.

John

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Ashton, it wasn't so much of a complaint as a pinch - and I would have thought you'd have thicker skin by now.

Bill, it was just a pinch back. :rolleyes:

I'll just have to wait until I can upgrade my toys to play.

I realize the Filemaker Pro format is limited to those who have that program. I think the same fields can be set up in pretty much any spreadsheet or database program (I haven't had any time to subject this to real-world tests, though, and am strapped by my own technical and program-owning limitations).

Also, I've tried to negotiate just getting the entire populated database uploaded somewhere as-is in a variety of formats that could then be imported into any database or spreadsheet program, but as I understand it there are complications with that, e.g., the database containing entire news and magazine articles (obtained from NEXIS and other sources) that are copyrighted works, only some of which have also been reduced to non-copyrighted abstracts.

Another complication is the way the date fields work so "circa" dates can be included for day and month. I don't even know the technical details of exactly how that works, except that "c." notations can be put into the day and month fields, and that all then gets munched in some kind of calculation that outputs the full date as a text string with the "c." notations. :hotorwot

The short story of what I know is that efforts are being made to:

  1. get the existing database timeline populated with more specific JFK-related data as fast as possible,
  2. exclude certain non-related and copyrighted data entries while leaving all, e.g., CIA-related entries, and,
  3. get it all into as many exportable accessible formats as possible and make those public in some fashion.

It is a gargantuan task, though, with no resources except sweat equity.

One hopeful note: there are some things in the works that might result in the database timeline being ported over to MS Access format soon, which may or may not make it accessible by more people.

Ashton

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I've said right here in this thread (last message, first forum page) that some acquaintances of mine—who freely supplied the database template in the first place—have turned their attention to devoting their own time, without the slightest compensation, to doing what they can to start to incorporate specific JFK assassination data into their version of the timeline—which already contained over 10,000 entries wholly unrelated to the JFK assassination.....
The short story of what I know is that efforts are being made to:
  1. get the existing database timeline populated with more specific JFK-related data as fast as possible,
  2. exclude certain non-related and copyrighted data entries while leaving all, e.g., CIA-related entries, and,
  3. get it all into as many exportable accessible formats as possible and make those public in some fashion.

It is a gargantuan task, though, with no resources except sweat equity.

Ashton, do you know if your acquaintances that are working on the JFK timeline are using this source?

http://www.ciajfk.com/timeline.html

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The timeline you posted, Ashton, is apparently no longer up at the site it once was. When you have a moment, can it be reposted there or elsewhere?

Thanks for letting me know, Peter. I'm going to try to get it set up this weekend somewhere more permanent.

Ashton

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Ashton, do you know if your acquaintances that are working on the JFK timeline are using this source?

http://www.ciajfk.com/timeline.html

I don't know, Michael. Several people are inputting each from different sources, and I don't know exactly what's being used. I've seen entries sourced from the Warren Commission documents, HSCA, Weberman, State Department, CIA Historical Review FOIA documents, and lots of others but don't recall seeing that specifically cited. I'll pass it along as a suggestion.

Ashton

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  • 10 years later...

I have heard mention of a seemingly important Time-Line project that was undertaken by forum members. Is this that project? I'll have to read through again in order to find out if I have missed a link for it. Does anyone have info on this Time-Line?

 

 

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 Post from this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/8629-john-simkin-cia-agent/&page=3

 

Ashton Gray wrote, on Nov. 24, 2006

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).

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