Order in the Courts!

[Jack White]

Ashton...the graphic you posted is clearly in error. Elm Street and Main Street are both 40 feet wide. You can see by the scale that the streets do not match that scale.

Jack

Then an apparently popular and meticulously drawn schematic of Dealey is in error, too.

Here's what I uploaded:

Here's the same image with the schematic overlaid, ghosted to about 40%:

The original scale from the schematic is placed directly above the scale on the drawing. I can see maybe a smidge of wriggle room between the two scales—but to me it's close enough for government work (and I use that last phrase with malice aforethought).

As another check I overlaid a Google satellite image, and it also seems to check out—although the resolution, current size of trees, and stark shadows made that difficult to see an exact correlation. Still, the buildings and major features certainly seemed to align, including the streets and sidewalks. (It's impossible to show the two images overlaid, and I ain't up for any animations. Anybody who cares can do it themselves.)

If you have a better or more accurate reference than that schematic, point me to it and I'll give a heads up to the person who sent the drawing to me.

Ashton

Yes...that is Robert Cutler's famed Computers and Automations map. I noticed about

twenty years ago that the scale is DOUBLE SIZE and have been telling people for years,

but it keeps getting circulated with the wrong scale. I have posted the original many times

but always write that the scale is wrong.

Jack

[Ashton Gray]

Yes...that is Robert Cutler's famed Computers and Automations map. I noticed about

twenty years ago that the scale is DOUBLE SIZE and have been telling people for years,

but it keeps getting circulated with the wrong scale. I have posted the original many times

but always write that the scale is wrong.

Jack

Great, Jack. Thanks very much.

So my understanding is that the drawing is accurate, but that the scale needs to be adjusted.

I'll pass it along and I'm sure it will get corrected. If so I'll post a corrected version, and if not, I'll fix one up myself from the jpeg I have.

Ashton

[John Dolva]

one promient 'deception corrected'.

the conspiracy IS the conspiracy

Edited August 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[Antti Hynonen]

Ashton,

Have you seen Don Roberdeau's plat?

This you may find useful aswell.

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

[John Dolva]

The base image is an oblique aerial photo, so the top of the buildings are 'off'. At street level the matches are more precise.

[Ashton Gray]

one promient 'deception corrected'.

Erm, not for me.

You went all inscrutable and esoteric, John. While pithiness is next to sphinxliness, clarity tends to work gooder.

Asthon

[John Dolva]

maybe, yes, I just find it a bit frustrating (as someone who has an interest in the south side of the plaza, where some interesting things definitely did happen) how in the general lore (understandable I suppose), it's as if the southern half is non-existent. I think some are quite happy for it to remain so. Behind the official story and the 'official' conspiracy' story is a more comprehensive, inclusive story, IMO, generally neglected or discounted in such a way as to make a wholistic approach difficult.

Edited August 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[Ashton Gray]

maybe, yes, I just find it a bit frustrating (as someone who has an interest in the south side of the plaza, where some interesting things definitely did happen) how in the general lore (understandable I suppose), it's as if the southern half is non-existent. I think some are quite happy for it to remain so. Behind the official story and the 'official' conspiracy' story is a more comprehensive, inclusive story, IMO, generally neglected or discounted in such a way as to make a wholistic approach difficult.

Thanks for the elucidation. I don't disagree at all.

Swinging it all back around to the original topic, first, here is one of the photos I posted earlier for reference to the color coding:

I have several questions still unanswered in this thread that I don't feel like or have the time to go back and collect verbatim, but if memory serves me they essentially boil down to:

1. Did Sheriff Decker clear the County Courts building (RED ARROW) right after shots were fired by ordering all the Sheriff department personnel out into the field?

2. Has there never, in all these years, been any accounting whatsoever for who was in (or on) that building (and/or its annex), and where each person was at the time of the murder?

The number of locations in (and on) that building for apparently clear shots at the points of impact seem, to me, to be abundant. I'm still trying to wrap what wits I might have around its seeming non-existence in all the literature, except as a place where Decker had witnesses rounded up and interviewed, apparently all in one relatively limited location in the rather vast complex.

Ashton

Edited August 8, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[John Dolva]

you're welcome

__________

I understand the fifth floor of the red building (not to be confused by the castle type red building nicknamed 'old red' next to it) contained cells.

On the roof are (were) watertanks. One witness (Sittzman?) thought shots were from a building with water tank on roof.

Between the records building and the County court is a connecting structure (green) with a few of openings in it. I wonder if a shot from there could result in a kind of reverbration described as 'firecrackers'?

Edited August 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[Steve Thomas]

Ashton,

1. Did Sheriff Decker clear the County Courts building (RED ARROW) right after shots were fired by ordering all the Sheriff department personnel out into the field?

Here is a transcript of what Sheriff Decker broadcast over Channel 2 of the Dallas Police Department at 12:30 from Chief Curry's lead car:

"Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there."

Here is what was broadcast by the Sheriff's Department dispatcher at 12:30:40:

"Stand by 1. All units and officers in the vicinity of the station report to the railroad track area, just north of Elm. Report to the railroad track area just north of Elm."

Hope that helps.

Steve Thomas

[Ashton Gray]

Ashton,

1. Did Sheriff Decker clear the County Courts building (RED ARROW) right after shots were fired by ordering all the Sheriff department personnel out into the field?

Here is a transcript of what Sheriff Decker broadcast over Channel 2 of the Dallas Police Department at 12:30 from Chief Curry's lead car:

"Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there."

Here is what was broadcast by the Sheriff's Department dispatcher at 12:30:40:

"Stand by 1. All units and officers in the vicinity of the station report to the railroad track area, just north of Elm. Report to the railroad track area just north of Elm."

Hope that helps.

Steve Thomas

Good God.

Ashton

[Ashton Gray]

Is there anyone in the forum living in or near Dallas who knows how to, can, and will create a panoramic view of Dealey Plaza from the same location where Zapruder stood? I don't mean one with the level of zoom he had; I mean one made with a wider angle approximating this shot:

With a tripod-mounted camera a series of still images can be taken with panning, and there is software that will "stitch" these together into a single wide panorama of the scene and correct for lens distortions. I have the software but don't have the images. If I were in or near Dallas I'd do it in a heartbeat, getting everything from the Houston-Elm corner to the overpass. I wouldn't give a damn about the TSBD or Dal-Tex buildings (they've been done to death), but I'd sure keep the three buildings above in the frame, plus the Post Office building across the plaza, plus the far knoll.

I'd also love to see still images taken from each known or closely approximated impact point with the camera aimed at the County Courts building (RED ARROW)—something that, as far as I know, has never been done. I realize that the trees that would be in those shots are much larger now, but by comparison with older photos I think much could be learned.

I also realize the above is a tall order, and I only propose it in the hopes that there's someone who might take an interest and have the know-how to pull it off.

Ashton

[Jack White]

Ashton...been there, done that.

The original is much bigger, but too big to attach here.

Jack

[Ashton Gray]

Ashton...been there, done that.

The original is much bigger, but too big to attach here.

Astounding piece of work, Jack. I shudder to contemplate the effort. Thanks for posting it.

Wouldn't it now be wonderful to get one of these done, since this technology is available:

Quicktime VR Panoramas

There are lots of examples down the page that open full screen.

Ashton

Edited August 10, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[David G. Healy]

Ashton...been there, done that.

The original is much bigger, but too big to attach here.

Jack

much, MUCH bigger...