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Bizarre behavior in Dealey Plaza


Lee Forman
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Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

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You have to click on some of the GIFs to start them running. Once again, the Dorman frames, following the headshot. What's so significant about that corner, and is it in any way related to the Man and Child seen hiding within a few feet away, moments earlier? Why watch the Motorcade from behind a bush?

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You have to click on some of the GIFs to start them running. Once again, the Dorman frames, following the headshot. What's so significant about that corner, and is it in any way related to the Man and Child seen hiding within a few feet away, moments earlier? Why watch the Motorcade from behind a bush?

The man in the blue shirt and the person(s) in the upper corner seem to be moving in unison...almost like their sudden movements are choreographed.

Looks pretty bizarre to me.

Chuck

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Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Thank you for your work on this.

The woman falling backwards, then suddenly righting herself and stepping forward, looks pretty strange to me. It happens in the space of perhaps 5-6 frames?

I really don't know what to make of the situation there.

Chuck

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The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Hi Chuck,

I disagree with your conclusion that there is not a rifle. In Z175 my interpretation is that I can see the shoulder bit of a rifle catch a bit of sunlight. In the frame, from the middle of the shadow, diagonally to left below. As well as there is a individual standing next to the shadow in the bushes. His head is not visible because of the leafs in front.

Apart from the obvious questions asked as before, there may be additional stuff pointing that direction.

For this I captured a frame showing the shirt of JFK. And ask you to check autopsy's for your own findings.

My interpretation, as shown, that the lumps on Kennedy's shoulder are bullets. See image below.

As bullets, I used WC-CE399 twice. You can blame me for that. But fits nice, I think.

I consider the chance of two bullets fired, to end up neatly next to one another, expremely slim ("Slim is my middle name."). Yet that is what I believe to see. If I look at the foto regarding Kennedy's back, measuring the entrance hole, I can see two bullet-paths from the spine leading to that top shoulder, and even cross one another. ( I only describe, I was born in 1970 )

I think the direction clearly shows leading back to that corner.

A couple of things I can clearly observe from the shirt image. The blood is dark red and lots on the shoulder. Meaning Kennedy was not fatally struck when the injury occured. Dead men do not bleed. Blood gathering in the wound, before heart stops beating.

As Kennedy falls into Jackie's lap, and she lays her hand on his right shoulder, the wound must have burst on the shoulder-side. This soakes the shoulder path of the shirt horizontally (to the neck). Otherwise (Kennedy is still sitting up) , more of the blood would stream down. That part of the shirt is easier to colour since it consists of one layer of fabric. The shoulder has more layers.

If the wounds happened after Z313 it would not bleed that much, in addition to the impossible angle of course.

I can rule out blood from the head, because of the jacket covering, and the colour. Kennedy fell to the left after 313. He did not take his jacket off his shoulder from what I could see, before Z313.

With regard to the bullet I used in the picture. I think it is not a coincidence they fit so nicely. Along the trajectory they do not meet dense objects, yet fired. A watertank-shot would result in less damage, anything else would result in more (cotton, sand etc.).

Because of the short distance (cannot miss ..... ) I consider the use of bullets with less powder would be very much desired for that corner. Since they do not leave an exit hole, nice small entrance wound (for normal autopsy's) easier to remove (for X-ray), and the drop of the bullet is not much over 5-10 meter.

In addition to that, the sound would be quite differend to a fully load bullet.

I think they tried to shoot simultaneous (not Miss) on que. Everybody in the crowd pointing somewhere else. Security confused. Ferrie's plan initially.

I am going far for this one. I think WC CE-399 and HSCA CE-399 had a collision inside Kennedy, where the upcoming bullet pushed (torqued) the led to one side, and chipping off a bit of the copper casing on the other side, what ended up in the tip of HSCA CE-399. Like I said far...... :lol:

There are some huge problems with other theories on CE-399. The amound of deforming (or lack of). A bullet is always weigh-centred both horizontal and vertical for a stable trajectory. A bullet with that much more led to one side would wobble in flight. Not very useful.

The loss of copper at the base, according to someone in the military, is usually only seen when hitting something like hard wood. But then the tip does not match, would be curled back. Turning it into a very magic bullet. Apart from the difference in shape and size between the WC's, and HSCA's CE-399.

It is easy enough to remove these bullets like a splinter before x-rays.

That the Parkland docters payed no attention to his right shoulder is very clear, because of no life threatning wound (comp. to the head).

In a sence it is equally important, to figure out why they do not show on x-rays. If it is medical ( like a pace-maker would show up for example), why remove? If it is what I say, and the shirt confirms that to me, removal would be very important, to limit the amound of guns that day. Less to investigate. Less to ignore.

But from forensic-point of view, a crucial thing. That the bullet was not fatal, doesn't make it less of a criminal act. To shoot the president. People are locked away for joking in that direction. And to me a clear proof of more bullets, rifles. Eventhough I think I refind both CE-399's, but not on Connelly.

Turning the magic-bullet-theory into a multiplying magic-bullet-theorie. Fertile bullets :lol: Odd.

Maarten

Edited by Maarten Coumans
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Thank you for your work on this.

The woman falling backwards, then suddenly righting herself and stepping forward, looks pretty strange to me. It happens in the space of perhaps 5-6 frames?

I really don't know what to make of the situation there.

Chuck

Hi Chuck - thanks for the feedback - I think it may be a mistake however to assume that this was not the location of a shooter. I have no idea, really, however it does make the Rosemary Willis Texas Monthly interview a bit more interesting, where she says a shot came from over her right(?) shoulder.

Despite ridicule, it remains my firm opinion there is another individual - which I assume is another child, crouched in the bushes there in the corner - with more characters a bit further down. I worked on that for a long time, but there simply isn't sufficent documentation available to take it much farther. Someone approaches the corner shortly after the headshot is fired and can be seen in the Dorman frames, kicking something or someone. Strange behavior considering that the President's head has just been blown into pieces in front of everyone - and also when you consider [again - sorry] that not one of the 23+ individuals standing opposite have ever been identified [save for perhaps F. Lee Mudd].

Maarten - awesome post. Keep it coming.

- lee

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The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Hi Chuck,

I disagree with your conclusion that there is not a rifle. In Z175 my interpretation is that I can see the shoulder bit of a rifle catch a bit of sunlight. In the frame, from the middle of the shadow, diagonally to left below. As well as there is a individual standing next to the shadow in the bushes. His head is not visible because of the leafs in front.

Apart from the obvious questions asked as before, there may be additional stuff pointing that direction.

For this I captured a frame showing the shirt of JFK. And ask you to check autopsy's for your own findings.

My interpretation, as shown, that the lumps on Kennedy's shoulder are bullets. See image below.

As bullets, I used WC-CE399 twice. You can blame me for that. But fits nice, I think.

I consider the chance of two bullets fired, to end up neatly next to one another, expremely slim ("Slim is my middle name."). Yet that is what I believe to see. If I look at the foto regarding Kennedy's back, measuring the entrance hole, I can see two bullet-paths from the spine leading to that top shoulder, and even cross one another. ( I only describe, I was born in 1970 )

I think the direction clearly shows leading back to that corner.

A couple of things I can clearly observe from the shirt image. The blood is dark red and lots on the shoulder. Meaning Kennedy was not fatally struck when the injury occured. Dead men do not bleed. Blood gathering in the wound, before heart stops beating.

As Kennedy falls into Jackie's lap, and she lays her hand on his right shoulder, the wound must have burst on the shoulder-side. This soakes the shoulder path of the shirt horizontally (to the neck). Otherwise (Kennedy is still sitting up) , more of the blood would stream down. That part of the shirt is easier to colour since it consists of one layer of fabric. The shoulder has more layers.

If the wounds happened after Z313 it would not bleed that much, in addition to the impossible angle of course.

I can rule out blood from the head, because of the jacket covering, and the colour. Kennedy fell to the left after 313. He did not take his jacket off his shoulder from what I could see, before Z313.

With regard to the bullet I used in the picture. I think it is not a coincidence they fit so nicely. Along the trajectory they do not meet dense objects, yet fired. A watertank-shot would result in less damage, anything else would result in more (cotton, sand etc.).

Because of the short distance (cannot miss ..... ) I consider the use of bullets with less powder would be very much desired for that corner. Since they do not leave an exit hole, nice small entrance wound (for normal autopsy's) easier to remove (for X-ray), and the drop of the bullet is not much over 5-10 meter.

In addition to that, the sound would be quite differend to a fully load bullet.

I think they tried to shoot simultaneous (not Miss) on que. Everybody in the crowd pointing somewhere else. Security confused. Ferrie's plan initially.

I am going far for this one. I think WC CE-399 and HSCA CE-399 had a collision inside Kennedy, where the upcoming bullet pushed (torqued) the led to one side, and chipping off a bit of the copper casing on the other side, what ended up in the tip of HSCA CE-399. Like I said far...... :lol:

There are some huge problems with other theories on CE-399. The amound of deforming (or lack of). A bullet is always weigh-centred both horizontal and vertical for a stable trajectory. A bullet with that much more led to one side would wobble in flight. Not very useful.

The loss of copper at the base, according to someone in the military, is usually only seen when hitting something like hard wood. But then the tip does not match, would be curled back. Turning it into a very magic bullet. Apart from the difference in shape and size between the WC's, and HSCA's CE-399.

It is easy enough to remove these bullets like a splinter before x-rays.

That the Parkland docters payed no attention to his right shoulder is very clear, because of no life threatning wound (comp. to the head).

In a sence it is equally important, to figure out why they do not show on x-rays. If it is medical ( like a pace-maker would show up for example), why remove? If it is what I say, and the shirt confirms that to me, removal would be very important, to limit the amound of guns that day. Less to investigate. Less to ignore.

But from forensic-point of view, a crucial thing. That the bullet was not fatal, doesn't make it less of a criminal act. To shoot the president. People are locked away for joking in that direction. And to me a clear proof of more bullets, rifles. Eventhough I think I refind both CE-399's, but not on Connelly.

Turning the magic-bullet-theory into a multiplying magic-bullet-theorie. Fertile bullets :lol: Odd.

Maarten

informative post, thank you, Maarten.

Edited by David G. Healy
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Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Thank you for your work on this.

The woman falling backwards, then suddenly righting herself and stepping forward, looks pretty strange to me. It happens in the space of perhaps 5-6 frames?

I really don't know what to make of the situation there.

Chuck

Hi Chuck - thanks for the feedback - I think it may be a mistake however to assume that this was not the location of a shooter. I have no idea, really, however it does make the Rosemary Willis Texas Monthly interview a bit more interesting, where she says a shot came from over her right(?) shoulder.

Despite ridicule, it remains my firm opinion there is another individual - which I assume is another child, crouched in the bushes there in the corner - with more characters a bit further down. I worked on that for a long time, but there simply isn't sufficent documentation available to take it much farther. Someone approaches the corner shortly after the headshot is fired and can be seen in the Dorman frames, kicking something or someone. Strange behavior considering that the President's head has just been blown into pieces in front of everyone - and also when you consider [again - sorry] that not one of the 23+ individuals standing opposite have ever been identified [save for perhaps F. Lee Mudd].

Maarten - awesome post. Keep it coming.

- lee

OK, you've got my interest in this area re-kindled.

I forgot to mention what it was in this area that originally caught my attention.

I was going through the z-frames one by one when I noticed that there was a rod shaped object coming out of the bush which seemed to be tracking Kennedy. As the limo moved, so, also, moved the object.

At one point there is a reddish-pinkish hue right at the end of the rod shaped object.

I thought it was curious when I realized that the red-pink hue appeared (z170-z172) when there looked to be just enough open space beween the motorcycle riders and the bystanders for "the rod", if it had been a weapon, to get a shot off at Kennedy.

Shadows don't track moving objects. Whatever it is, it is in motion, and therefore...someone must be holding it.

This shows the area in question. I believe this is Bill Miller's work. If this is your work Bill, thanks again.

Look for the rod I mentioned and you tell me if it is, or isn't, tracking the limo.

You can see in this .gif that nearly all the people in the background are moving quickly, as if they have been startled. All, that is, except for our wall sitting, pro-warren commission witness Brennan.

He looks to be frozen in time... almost as if he were sitting for a painting. He doesn't, in my opinion, act like someone witnessing the murder of the US President.

Edited by Chuck Robbins
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OK, you've got my interest in this area re-kindled.

I forgot to mention what it was in this area that originally caught my attention.

I was going through the z-frames one by one when I noticed that there was a rod shaped object coming out of the bush which seemed to be tracking Kennedy. As the limo moved, so, also, moved the object.

At one point there is a reddish-pinkish hue right at the end of the rod shaped object.

I thought it was curious when I realized that the red-pink hue appeared (z170-z172) when there looked to be just enough open space beween the motorcycle riders and the bystanders for "the rod", if it had been a weapon, to get a shot off at Kennedy.

Shadows don't track moving objects. Whatever it is, it is in motion, and therefore...someone must be holding it.

This shows the area in question. I believe this is Bill Miller's work. If this is your work Bill, thanks again.

Look for the rod I mentioned and you tell me if it is, or isn't, tracking the limo.

You can see in this .gif that nearly all the people in the background are moving quickly, as if they have been startled. All, that is, except for our wall sitting, pro-warren commission witness Brennan.

He looks to be frozen in time... almost as if he were sitting for a painting. He doesn't, in my opinion, act like someone witnessing the murder of the US President.

Hmmm.....well Chuck - I need to take another look myself as well. I am seeing something a bit different than what I thought before. I was under the impression that the pair - man and child, are standing in the background of the treelike shrub in that location - Man in the rear, arms raised. It appears that I was mistaken.

Took another look - possible scenario? z194 crop.

Croft, Kounas, Linda and Rosemary Willis are identifiable.

The strange uniform / dress doesn't throw me - I'll go with a boy over a girl for the child hiding behind that plant [no offense Jack].

I'll take a boy for the one by the fountain with his hand up to his ear?, and the one atop the wall of the fountain, who is hidden from our view.

I'll guess on a boy for the one in the corner at the bushes.

No clue if the figures there at the bushes to the right of the corner are men or not.

The man in black standing back there does not appear to have been identified.

Linda Willis is looking in the totally opposite direction - which adds to the intrigue.

- lee

Edited by Lee Forman
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Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Thank you for your work on this.

The woman falling backwards, then suddenly righting herself and stepping forward, looks pretty strange to me. It happens in the space of perhaps 5-6 frames?

I really don't know what to make of the situation there.

Chuck

Hi Chuck - thanks for the feedback - I think it may be a mistake however to assume that this was not the location of a shooter. I have no idea, really, however it does make the Rosemary Willis Texas Monthly interview a bit more interesting, where she says a shot came from over her right(?) shoulder.

Despite ridicule, it remains my firm opinion there is another individual - which I assume is another child, crouched in the bushes there in the corner - with more characters a bit further down. I worked on that for a long time, but there simply isn't sufficent documentation available to take it much farther. Someone approaches the corner shortly after the headshot is fired and can be seen in the Dorman frames, kicking something or someone. Strange behavior considering that the President's head has just been blown into pieces in front of everyone - and also when you consider [again - sorry] that not one of the 23+ individuals standing opposite have ever been identified [save for perhaps F. Lee Mudd].

Maarten - awesome post. Keep it coming.

- lee

OK, you've got my interest in this area re-kindled.

I forgot to mention what it was in this area that originally caught my attention.

I was going through the z-frames one by one when I noticed that there was a rod shaped object coming out of the bush which seemed to be tracking Kennedy. As the limo moved, so, also, moved the object.

At one point there is a reddish-pinkish hue right at the end of the rod shaped object.

I thought it was curious when I realized that the red-pink hue appeared (z170-z172) when there looked to be just enough open space beween the motorcycle riders and the bystanders for "the rod", if it had been a weapon, to get a shot off at Kennedy.

Shadows don't track moving objects. Whatever it is, it is in motion, and therefore...someone must be holding it.

This shows the area in question. I believe this is Bill Miller's work. If this is your work Bill, thanks again.

Look for the rod I mentioned and you tell me if it is, or isn't, tracking the limo.

You can see in this .gif that nearly all the people in the background are moving quickly, as if they have been startled. All, that is, except for our wall sitting, pro-warren commission witness Brennan.

He looks to be frozen in time... almost as if he were sitting for a painting. He doesn't, in my opinion, act like someone witnessing the murder of the US President.

Here's frames 165-185 approx. larger size if it helps.

http://70.95.198.200:4944/JFK/

chris

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Thanks to some coverage of the areas, you can follow a man and a child [boy?] as the motorcade approaches the Plaza. You can first see them in the Martin Film, in the garden area of the North Peristyle, where the man appears to carry the struggling child close the stairs and release him or her. In the Bell film you can follow the child as it continues ahead of the man. In the Dorman, you can watch as the child seems to be moving quite rapidly, and then is off the record. In the Zapurder, you can see the child and the man, and they appear to be hiding in the bushes.

This child is running ahead of Rosemary Willis - yet it may be that the child stops short as their paths cross. The pair remain behind the bushes, at the area of the stairs, for the duration of the coverage available in the Zapruder.

They are of course unidentified.

Why would they watch the motorcade from an area in which they would be partly concealed and have foliage partially obscuring their view?

Following the headshot, [which Dorman fails to capture, allegedly - just another amateur film maker] we can see Dorman returning to this location. Rosemary Willis stands there, watching the activity that is taking place. Two men turn to watch. The lady in blue - seen earlier in the Dorman [the one with the large camera that Rosemary almost appears to be following], is approaching the corner area rapidly. There are only a few frames. There is a man, and he appears to be heading toward the corner of the wall at the bushes - it seems as if he is kicking something.

There's nothing at all available anywhere that I am aware of concerning an incident that may have taken place here - directly following the shooting, which would have garnered the attention of so many witnesses nearby.

What transpired in this area? Is it related to the man and the boy we saw earlier? Why doesn't Rosemary Willis mention it? Her Father?

Very bizarre.

Thanks to Don Roberdeau for use of his blank plat. I tried to figure something close to the range of sight - it's an approximation.

Some of the supporting stuff, hopefully in chronological order - if not, it will come up reversed.

I think I may have used 'boy' instead of 'child' - no way of knowing - my error.

Martin Frame.

Bell Frame.

Dorman Frame.

Zapruder Frame [184]

GIFs.

Martin film. Partly stabilized. I didn't bother doing Bell.

These posts all seem to be adding to one another - oh well.

Zapruder and Dorman, somewhat stabilized.

Zapruder - you can see the man and the child behind Rosemary Willis.

The area in question is one which caught my attention as well.

Your compilation has answered some questions I had regarding the unusual movement/actions seen in the Z frames. I had wrongly supposed the area to be one where shots may have originated.

The opposing views clearly show there to be no rifle being fired from that area behind the bush as I had previously suggested.

Thank you for your work on this.

The woman falling backwards, then suddenly righting herself and stepping forward, looks pretty strange to me. It happens in the space of perhaps 5-6 frames?

I really don't know what to make of the situation there.

Chuck

Hi Chuck - thanks for the feedback - I think it may be a mistake however to assume that this was not the location of a shooter. I have no idea, really, however it does make the Rosemary Willis Texas Monthly interview a bit more interesting, where she says a shot came from over her right(?) shoulder.

Despite ridicule, it remains my firm opinion there is another individual - which I assume is another child, crouched in the bushes there in the corner - with more characters a bit further down. I worked on that for a long time, but there simply isn't sufficent documentation available to take it much farther. Someone approaches the corner shortly after the headshot is fired and can be seen in the Dorman frames, kicking something or someone. Strange behavior considering that the President's head has just been blown into pieces in front of everyone - and also when you consider [again - sorry] that not one of the 23+ individuals standing opposite have ever been identified [save for perhaps F. Lee Mudd].

Maarten - awesome post. Keep it coming.

- lee

OK, you've got my interest in this area re-kindled.

I forgot to mention what it was in this area that originally caught my attention.

I was going through the z-frames one by one when I noticed that there was a rod shaped object coming out of the bush which seemed to be tracking Kennedy. As the limo moved, so, also, moved the object.

At one point there is a reddish-pinkish hue right at the end of the rod shaped object.

I thought it was curious when I realized that the red-pink hue appeared (z170-z172) when there looked to be just enough open space beween the motorcycle riders and the bystanders for "the rod", if it had been a weapon, to get a shot off at Kennedy.

Shadows don't track moving objects. Whatever it is, it is in motion, and therefore...someone must be holding it.

This shows the area in question. I believe this is Bill Miller's work. If this is your work Bill, thanks again.

Look for the rod I mentioned and you tell me if it is, or isn't, tracking the limo.

You can see in this .gif that nearly all the people in the background are moving quickly, as if they have been startled. All, that is, except for our wall sitting, pro-warren commission witness Brennan.

He looks to be frozen in time... almost as if he were sitting for a painting. He doesn't, in my opinion, act like someone witnessing the murder of the US President.

Here's frames 165-185 approx. larger size if it helps.

http://70.95.198.200:4944/JFK/

chris

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Here's frames 165-185 approx. larger size if it helps.

http://70.95.198.200:4944/JFK/

chris

Hey Chris!

Is that your work? Impressive. Any chance of getting the next frames in an animated sequence? Looks like we are back where we were once before - I'm still a bit stuck - is it one ore two persons in the area behind the bush at the stairs?

Using Robin's z202 again - cropped at the area of interest. Man in black at left. If we assume he is the one we see running behind the boy in the Martin, Bell and Dorman - then there should only be one individual in the neighborhood of the bushes at the stairs? Does this look right? Is it possible that there are still 2 individuals in the location of the tree? The movement seems to suggest it, but I can't get a handle on it.

- lee

Edited by Lee Forman
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