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A bit off-topic but of interest...


Jack White
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What does the above reply have to do with the original post? Other than to make an unprovoked attack on another forum member I mean?

JWK

***************

If it was an attack it was certainly not unprovoked, but it's not an attack, just a statement of facts. Apparently you find it all right for Mr. White to discredit Mrs. Baker with no backup whatsoever. But you charaterize my post as an "attack"? That speaks volumes.

The fact that you don't seem to find the picture interesting, speaks more volumes.

Mark

I just failed to see what Jack's work on "Badgeman" had to do with the original post. Nothing at all. So why bring it up unless you wanted to degrade or discredit Jack's personal opinion, which he has a right to express. If you don't agree with his (or anyone else's) opinion on a topic, state your reasons and keep it within the topic. Don't bring up something totally unrelated.

I wish this forum had an anti-hijacking policy. It could sure use it.

As for my take on the subject, I agree with Jack in that Karr was so involved in the case, that he has made an attempt to put himself into the case by claiming guilt. Too bad it turned out that way, and the DNA didn't match. Her real killer is still out there.

There are two schools of thought as to how deeply Ms. Baker was involved, but it’s not worth getting upset because you and Jack aren’t in the same camp on this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

JWK

I told my girlfriend on day one that Karr probably couldn't afford airfare home, or, that he would write a book later to make his kiddie-porn crime pay off in the long run. He was obviously, to me at least, NOT involved in Jon-Benet's death.

His motivation is still questionable in my mind.

I realize this is not directly topic related...but...

I have one question I hope someone will have an answer to.

When did the "DNA in the panties" enter into the evidence?

I can recall no such animal in my memories of the initial event.

We Americans buy into so much B.S. We (Americans in general) truly are a pathetic bunch at times.

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What does the above reply have to do with the original post? Other than to make an unprovoked attack on another forum member I mean?

JWK

***************

If it was an attack it was certainly not unprovoked, but it's not an attack, just a statement of facts. Apparently you find it all right for Mr. White to discredit Mrs. Baker with no backup whatsoever. But you charaterize my post as an "attack"? That speaks volumes.

The fact that you don't seem to find the picture interesting, speaks more volumes.

Mark

I just failed to see what Jack's work on "Badgeman" had to do with the original post. Nothing at all. So why bring it up unless you wanted to degrade or discredit Jack's personal opinion, which he has a right to express. If you don't agree with his (or anyone else's) opinion on a topic, state your reasons and keep it within the topic. Don't bring up something totally unrelated.

I wish this forum had an anti-hijacking policy. It could sure use it.

As for my take on the subject, I agree with Jack in that Karr was so involved in the case, that he has made an attempt to put himself into the case by claiming guilt. Too bad it turned out that way, and the DNA didn't match. Her real killer is still out there.

There are two schools of thought as to how deeply Ms. Baker was involved, but it’s not worth getting upset because you and Jack aren’t in the same camp on this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

JWK

I told my girlfriend on day one that Karr probably couldn't afford airfare home, or, that he would write a book later to make his kiddie-porn crime pay off in the long run. He was obviously, to me at least, NOT involved in Jon-Benet's death.

His motivation is still questionable in my mind.

I realize this is not directly topic related...but...

I have one question I hope someone will have an answer to.

When did the "DNA in the panties" enter into the evidence?

I can recall no such animal in my memories of the initial event.

We Americans buy into so much B.S. We (Americans in general) truly are a pathetic bunch at times.

There are two sets of DNA...neither of which

trace to JonBenet or her family.

1. A spot of blood in her panties (no semen)

2. Epidermis samples under her fingernails.

This has been well known for a long time.

Jack

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What does the above reply have to do with the original post? Other than to make an unprovoked attack on another forum member I mean?

JWK

***************

If it was an attack it was certainly not unprovoked, but it's not an attack, just a statement of facts. Apparently you find it all right for Mr. White to discredit Mrs. Baker with no backup whatsoever. But you charaterize my post as an "attack"? That speaks volumes.

The fact that you don't seem to find the picture interesting, speaks more volumes.

Mark

I just failed to see what Jack's work on "Badgeman" had to do with the original post. Nothing at all. So why bring it up unless you wanted to degrade or discredit Jack's personal opinion, which he has a right to express. If you don't agree with his (or anyone else's) opinion on a topic, state your reasons and keep it within the topic. Don't bring up something totally unrelated.

I wish this forum had an anti-hijacking policy. It could sure use it.

As for my take on the subject, I agree with Jack in that Karr was so involved in the case, that he has made an attempt to put himself into the case by claiming guilt. Too bad it turned out that way, and the DNA didn't match. Her real killer is still out there.

There are two schools of thought as to how deeply Ms. Baker was involved, but it’s not worth getting upset because you and Jack aren’t in the same camp on this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

JWK

I told my girlfriend on day one that Karr probably couldn't afford airfare home, or, that he would write a book later to make his kiddie-porn crime pay off in the long run. He was obviously, to me at least, NOT involved in Jon-Benet's death.

His motivation is still questionable in my mind.

I realize this is not directly topic related...but...

I have one question I hope someone will have an answer to.

When did the "DNA in the panties" enter into the evidence?

I can recall no such animal in my memories of the initial event.

We Americans buy into so much B.S. We (Americans in general) truly are a pathetic bunch at times.

There are two sets of DNA...neither of which

trace to JonBenet or her family.

1. A spot of blood in her panties (no semen)

2. Epidermis samples under her fingernails.

This has been well known for a long time.

Jack

Thank you Jack.

The type of blood would have included/excluded karr before he was ever returned to the states if authorities had cared to check.

I'm sure DNA samples could have been done from Thailand as well.

The whole scene was probably an effort designed to divert attention away from something truly important.

Just my opinion....

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Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

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Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

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[quote name='William Kelly' date='Sep 5 2006, 08:44 PM' post='74059']

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

Bill,

Judyth has paystubs from Reily Coffee putting her in proximity to LHO in NO the summer of '63. This was not a big company, and it is difficult not to acknowledge that the two at least knew each other. They also started the same day. In addition, Judyth has a book she says Lee gave her that has been shown by two doc specialists (one for 60 minutes and one in Holland hired by Wim Dankbaar) to have LHO's handwriting in it. This opens the possibility that they had a personal relationship. Judyth's credentials to Sherman et al and the get-Castro plot are less-well defined (also in a more clandestine climate), but do include photos and news articles about her work with mice, passion for finding a cure for cancer, inducing cancer in mice and also learning advanced lab procedures at Roswell Park, etc. So, were there a rogue lab in NO in the summer of '63, Judyth would have been an ideal candidate to run it.

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Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

I studied Judyth's "documentation" for about six months when she

was on the DellaRosa forum. Her ONLY documentation was a pay

stub from Reily's during the relevant time. Not a single thing that

tied her directly to LHO.

Jack

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Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

I studied Judyth's "documentation" for about six months when she

was on the DellaRosa forum. Her ONLY documentation was a pay

stub from Reily's during the relevant time. Not a single thing that

tied her directly to LHO.

Jack

Well, Jack, you have just made my point for me by acknowledging that Judyth has documentation putting her in NOLA at the same time as LHO, working at Reily. You cannot say the same for Karr, can you?

However, rather than acknowledging Judyth's documentation at Reily, you appear to be comfortable minimizing it. The pay stubs do exist, though. Nothing is going to change that, or the fact that your comparison is flawed.

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Pamela,

may I ask you something ?

According to Judyths sister Lynda this is what Judyth told her

after the assassination, I think in (late) 1964.

Quote:

You told me that you had a love affair with a man who was trying to help our country and he was involved in very secret and covert activities for our country.

You said you met him when Bobby left you all alone after you were married and you fell in love with each other.

End of quote

Source:

http://groups.google.de/group/alt.conspira...cafe91f44243781

Might I point out the relevant part of this and ask you how this

supports or disproves Judyths claim, that she met Lee Harvey Oswald in New

Orleans before !!! she married Robert Baker ?

I mean in the context of what she did tell us about how and when they met during all those years since 1999.

The relevant parts reads:

"You said you met him ... after !!! you were married"

Please notice that she, Lynda, didn't write "continued to meet", she wrote "met after".

IMO this is, if one takes Lynda as a credible wittness the way Judyth and Martin take her,

proof that Judyth did change her story, but I would like to hear your opinion.

Here are the relevant dates as I remember them, could be a day off though:

First Baker Oswald encounter in a New Orleans post office was on April 26th 1963

Marriage date Judyth with Robert A. Baker was on May 2nd 1963

The mail from Lynda to Judyth was forwarded by Judyth herself to others and that part of Lyndas recollection was never disputed by Judyth as far as I know.

Btw. it is quite likely that you also have that original mail from Judyth, you might want to check just to be sure the information is in fact originaly coming from Lynda through Judyth.

Edited by Dave Weaver
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Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

I studied Judyth's "documentation" for about six months when she

was on the DellaRosa forum. Her ONLY documentation was a pay

stub from Reily's during the relevant time. Not a single thing that

tied her directly to LHO.

Jack

Well, Jack, you have just made my point for me by acknowledging that Judyth has documentation putting her in NOLA at the same time as LHO, working at Reily. You cannot say the same for Karr, can you?

However, rather than acknowledging Judyth's documentation at Reily, you appear to be comfortable minimizing it. The pay stubs do exist, though. Nothing is going to change that, or the fact that your comparison is flawed.

Nobody has denied the Reily/New Orleans part of her story.

For years I saw John Connally on the streets of downtown

Fort Worth when he was the attorney for Sid Richardson;

but that does not make me a witness to the assassination.

Being in the same town is NOT EVIDENCE.

Karr CONFESSED to a terrible crime; he had to be considered

a suspect. Karr and Judyth apparently suffer from Munchausen

by Proxy, in the opinion of some mental health experts.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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[quote name='Dave Weaver' date='Sep 5 2006, 10:31 PM' post='74065']

Pamela,

may I ask you something ?

According to Judyths sister Lynda this is what Judyth told her

after the assassination, I think in (late) 1964.

Quote:

You told me that you had a love affair with a man who was trying to help our country and he was involved in very secret and covert activities for our country.

You said you met him when Bobby left you all alone after you were married and you fell in love with each other.End of quote

I tend to look objectively rather than narrowly at Judyth's statements. Here, she may have been saying that she met LHO prior to her marriage to Robert, but fell in love with LHO after Robert left her alone in NO.

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Sure Pamela,

could be, is possible, must be ment that way etc. etc.,

if that helps you.

But you are wrong if you think that I do or did look narrowly

at anything coming from Judyth or her wittnesses.

I did and do look closely,not only in Judyths case,

and that without any outside interference I might add.

Big difference IMO.

You have an open mind aproach, that's not different than mine,

what differs it seems is, that I am faster in recognizing let

alone accepting that Judyth has made her love affair with

Lee up, for whatever reason.

Why, well the book is out now, and as some out there, including me,

have expected, it doesn't live up to the claims made in regard

of proof, and remember, she said she can proof everything she

claims.

Does she, in your opinion ?

We have the pay stubs, what else do we have ?

Sure it is a good read if you're into fiction books, but Moby Dick is much better IMO.

Edited by Dave Weaver
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Sure Pamela,

could be, is possible, must be ment that way etc. etc.,

if that helps you.

But you are wrong if you think that I do or did look narrowly

at anything coming from Judyth or her wittnesses.

I did and do look closely,not only in Judyths case,

and that without any outside interference I might add.

Big difference IMO.

You have an open mind aproach, that's not different than mine,

what differs it seems is, that I am faster in recognizing let

alone accepting that Judyth has made her love affair with

Lee up, for whatever reason.

Why, well the book is out now, and as some out there, including me,

have expected, it doesn't live up to the claims made in regard

of proof, and remember, she said she can proof everything she

claims.

Does she, in your opinion ?

We have the pay stubs, what else do we have ?

Sure it is a good read if you're into fiction books, but Moby Dick is much better IMO.

Excuse me? If Judyth 'made up' her personal relationship with LHO, how did she get a copy of a book of his with his writing in the margins? How were she and Lee seen on more than one occasion by Anna Lewis?

In addition, you are apparently comfortable minimizing Judyth's proximity to LHO at Reily as well. I am not.

Jack,

How you can be comfortable trying to make a comparison between Judyth who has documentation connecting her to LHO in NO in the summer of '63 and Karr who has no documentation placing him in Boulder in Dec. of '96?

Hi Pam,

What's the documentation again, connecting hr to LHO in NO in the summer of '63?

Thanks,

BK

I studied Judyth's "documentation" for about six months when she

was on the DellaRosa forum. Her ONLY documentation was a pay

stub from Reily's during the relevant time. Not a single thing that

tied her directly to LHO.

Jack

Well, Jack, you have just made my point for me by acknowledging that Judyth has documentation putting her in NOLA at the same time as LHO, working at Reily. You cannot say the same for Karr, can you?

However, rather than acknowledging Judyth's documentation at Reily, you appear to be comfortable minimizing it. The pay stubs do exist, though. Nothing is going to change that, or the fact that your comparison is flawed.

Nobody has denied the Reily/New Orleans part of her story.

For years I saw John Connally on the streets of downtown

Fort Worth when he was the attorney for Sid Richardson;

but that does not make me a witness to the assassination.

Being in the same town is NOT EVIDENCE.

Karr CONFESSED to a terrible crime; he had to be considered

a suspect. Karr and Judyth apparently suffer from Munchausen

by Proxy, in the opinion of some mental health experts.

Jack

Well, then I'm relieved that you didn't just try to deny the Reily/NOLA part of Judyth's story by attempting to make a blanket comparison between her and Karr. :o

Rather than examine Judyth's statements about the get-Castro plot in an objective manner it seems you prefer to fall to the fallacy of the appeal to unnamed 'authorities'.

Are you aware that Judyth is making statements that are new to the research community because there is as yet no definition? Are you aware that Garrison intended to arrest Dr. Alton Ochsner as well as Clay Shaw? Are you aware of the various experiments that had been taking place on prisoners and patients since the 50's injecting them with live cancer cells? If not, how much orientation do you have to her statements?

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Most of Judyth's "statements" can be traced to well known

books, or cannot be "proved". However I have not seen

her book, so I do not know her latest tales. She offered

NOTHING evidentiary re her acquaintance with LHO,

except HER WORD.

Her claims about a high school student and high school

dropout being chosen by the CIA to do cancer research

are ludicrous; the CIA has geniuses at their disposal

at Ft. Detrick; why would they pick two uneducated kids?

She posted for about a year on Rich's forum. I found

nothing which could not be traced to some book or other.

Or some things were clearly made up, like planning

a honeymoon in Cancun...when it did not exist in 1963.

Her mental aliment took her brief acquaintaince with

an Oswald at Reily's and ballooned it into a fantasy

novel. She didn't even know which LHO she knew,

Lee or Harvey. Attached are two LHO photos. Which

is the one she knew?

Jack

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