Smoke, mirrors and misdirection.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

1, The Walker shooting.

Biggest indicator that a high level plot to assassinate Kennedy was in the works at least eight months before Dallas. Here, in one fell swoop, is what the Walker "incident" was meant to introduce, and establish.

1, That Oswald is capable of murdering in cold blood, or for a political reason.

2, That the murder will not be face-to- face, but from a place of concealement.

3, That he will flee the site on foot, leaving the murder weapon hidden.

4, That he will "tidy his affairs" beforehand in case of capture.

It also establishes.

5, The rifle used in the attempt on Walker, is the same as used on Kennedy.

6, That Marina will, at least at first, lie, or keep quite about Lee's murderous tendencies.

7, That she knows lee owns the Carcano, and has for months before the assassination, thus giving him time to practice.

8, That he had also made threats against Richard Nixon, amoungst others, that only Marina's pleading prevented.

9, That Oswald plotted alone, and in secrecy, with little indication to others, and that these plots ended with explosive violence.

10, That George Demohrenschildt, and Wife knew Oswald owned the carcano, and imediately suspected oswald of the attempt on Walkers life.

Quite a list, nothing could have been better designed to prove Oswalds ability to carry out the assassination, and lie about it afterwards, this is about as damaging an indightment of Oswalds credibility as it is possible to imagine, so good in fact that it reeks of a controlling hand, early character assassination and motive establishment.

So what about the evidence presented to the Warren Commission, first the pictures, five in all, showing the rear of Walkers house, and the nearby railtrack, and apparently taken by a camera the DPD linked too Oswald. The Commissioner's believed this showed the reconnaissance stage of a plot to murder Walker. So what kind of recon, is it that involves hanging around, outside the home of your intended target, taking photo's in broad daylight, which can be of no more practical use to you than a quick scout around, and then, to compound the error, not destroying the physical evidence after, but rather to leave them lying around when for all he knew the police where about to come knocking.

Then there is the note. According to Marina, Oswald left a note for her on the night of the attack. This finally turns up, inside a book ten days after the assassination, the W/C claimed it represented the work of someone who expected to be either killed, or captured, it was also claimed to be in Oswalds handwritting. Marina further claimed that Oswald returned home at approx 11-30 in a very aggitated state, and informed her he had used the rifle to shoot at Walker, but was unsure whether he had hit him or not. She further claimed, that at her insistance Oswald had shown her all his plans around the Walker shooting, then destroyed them, all except HIS NOTE TO HER, AND THE RECONNAISSANCE PHOTO'S.How convieniant. This is, to say the least psychlogically inconsistant, one either destroys incriminating evidence, or one does not. The other glaring inconsistancy is that according to Marina, Oswald destroyed the evidence at her urging, yet when asked why she did not insist that he also destroy the two most incriminating pieces of evidence, she claims she cant remember. again, how convieniant.

Please post any evidence of foward planning you have. I shall post on the De mohrenschildt's next.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Stephen Turner

[J. Raymond Carroll]

1, The Walker shooting.

It also establishes.

5, The rifle used in the attempt on Walker, is the same as used on Kennedy.

Sorry I don't have the source handy, but is it not the case that the police initially reported that the bullet dug out of Walker's wall was Steel-Jacketed, whereas the Carcano fired copper-jacketed bullets. From what I recall, the Walker bullet only became copper-jacketed AFTER the assassination.

How does that fact (assuming it is a fact) fit into your theory?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Raymond, I believe-going on memory-that the Police initialy said the bullet was too damaged to positively ID, but later changed their minds. I will do some digging and try to verify this.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

From "The Kennedy conspiracy" by Anthony Summers.

[/color]"The weekend after the incident, the Oswalds had unexpected visitors-their friends the de mohrenschildts. Soon after arriving George allegedly made a shattering remark. He asked Oswald, How is it that you missed General Walker? there was a shocked silence, and according to de Mohrenschildt himself, Oswald "sort of shrivered....made a peculiar face....changed expression" Marina said much the same thing, Oswald, she said "Became almost speechless"and then someone changed the subject. One odd aspect of of this story is the alleged nature of Oswalds reaction. It suggests Oswald was thrown visibly off balance by the remark. A few nights earlier, when he arrived home after the Walker attempt, he had been hughly agitated. Yet months later, when challanged by a Policeman within moments of allegedly killing the President of the United States, Oswald was to behave very differently. According to officer Baker and another witness(truly) he would seem normal, calm and collected, and did not change his expression at all- just a minute or so after supposedly seeing his bullet explode in Kennedy's head. And there are more problems with Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts stories.

Marina's evidence suggested Jeanne de Mohrenschildts had first observed the rifle in a cupboard while being shown around the appt a few days before the Walker incident. Yet Jeanne said she saw the rifle for the first time during the visit after the shooting, mentioned it within minutes to her Husband, and this lead directly to him-"with his sence of humour"-making the extraordinary remark suggesting Oswald had been the Walker gunman. Is it possible that after the shooting, at a time when she and her Husband were supposedly doing all they could to cover up the crime, Marina readily opened up the door allowing Jeanne to see the rifle? That improbablity aside, Marina and the de Mohrenschildts have come up with conflicting dates for the occasion Jeanne saw the rifle. After the assassination, in an interview with State dept officials, the de Mohrenschildts claimed the gun incident had occured as early as Autumn the previous year. If another Jeanne version is right, then she saw the rifle in the cupboard on a day it was supposedly still buried somewhere near Walkers house. If the Walker case had ever come to Court, a defence counsel would have played up such flaws in the testimony. He would also have exploited an armory of other inconsistencies."

[William O'Neil]

Ask yourself how Oswald knew where Walker would be in the house, when he took the pictures of his would -be firing location pointing toward the window? When Os (supposedly) was casing the house and taking these photo's, Walker was on the "Midnight Ride" tour, and hadn't been home in weeks........

Bill

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Ask yourself how Oswald knew where Walker would be in the house, when he took the pictures of his would -be firing location pointing toward the window? When Os (supposedly) was casing the house and taking these photo's, Walker was on the "Midnight Ride" tour, and hadn't been home in weeks........

Bill

Very true William, As I stated in the opening post, why go to the trouble, and potential risk of exposure that taking photos involves, when they will be of no use to you what-so-ever on the day. Whoever took those photos, their only value was to the W/C in establishing previous activities. Not to mention the scratched out car number plate.

[Antti Hynonen]

Stephen Turner Posted Yesterday, 06:00 PM

From "The Kennedy conspiracy" by Anthony Summers.

[/color]"The weekend after the incident, the Oswalds had unexpected visitors-their friends the de mohrenschildts. Soon after arriving George allegedly made a shattering remark. He asked Oswald, How is it that you missed General Walker? there was a shocked silence, and according to de Mohrenschildt himself, Oswald "sort of shrivered....made a peculiar face....changed expression" Marina said much the same thing, Oswald, she said "Became almost speechless"and then someone changed the subject. One odd aspect of of this story is the alleged nature of Oswalds reaction. It suggests Oswald was thrown visibly off balance by the remark. A few nights earlier, when he arrived home after the Walker attempt, he had been hughly agitated. Yet months later, when challanged by a Policeman within moments of allegedly killing the President of the United States, Oswald was to behave very differently. According to officer Baker and another witness(truly) he would seem normal, calm and collected, and did not change his expression at all- just a minute or so after supposedly seeing his bullet explode in Kennedy's head. And there are more problems with Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts stories.

Marina's evidence suggested Jeanne de Mohrenschildts had first observed the rifle in a cupboard while being shown around the appt a few days before the Walker incident. Yet Jeanne said she saw the rifle for the first time during the visit after the shooting, mentioned it within minutes to her Husband, and this lead directly to him-"with his sence of humour"-making the extraordinary remark suggesting Oswald had been the Walker gunman. Is it possible that after the shooting, at a time when she and her Husband were supposedly doing all they could to cover up the crime, Marina readily opened up the door allowing Jeanne to see the rifle? That improbablity aside, Marina and the de Mohrenschildts have come up with conflicting dates for the occasion Jeanne saw the rifle. After the assassination, in an interview with State dept officials, the de Mohrenschildts claimed the gun incident had occured as early as Autumn the previous year. If another Jeanne version is right, then she saw the rifle in the cupboard on a day it was supposedly still buried somewhere near Walkers house. If the Walker case had ever come to Court, a defence counsel would have played up such flaws in the testimony. He would also have exploited an armory of other inconsistencies."

Excellent thread. Stephen, you raise excellent questions which reinforce the circumstances relating to how Oswald was set up.

There are many inconsistencies (although minor) in the testimonies of Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt as well as Marina Oswald's as it relates to the Walker incident, the rifle and the backyard photos.

Stephen Turner Posted Yesterday, 06:27 PM

QUOTE(William O'Neil @ Sep 21 2006, 07:03 PM)

Ask yourself how Oswald knew where Walker would be in the house, when he took the pictures of his would -be firing location pointing toward the window? When Os (supposedly) was casing the house and taking these photo's, Walker was on the "Midnight Ride" tour, and hadn't been home in weeks........

Bill

Very true William, As I stated in the opening post, why go to the trouble, and potential risk of exposure that taking photos involves, when they will be of no use to you what-so-ever on the day. Whoever took those photos, their only value was to the W/C in establishing previous activities. Not to mention the scratched out car number plate.

As far as I know, the number plate on that photo was initially intact (as can be seen on a photo of collected evidence, taken at DPD), this implies that the number was scratched out whilst the evidence was in the custody of the DPD.

It was also within the DPD that a Minox camera turned into a Minox light meter on the list of evidence. Not to mention that the Tippit murder site bullets went from Auto .38 to revolver .38, and Officer Poe's markings on the shells disappeared also. But that's another thread....

[Guest Stephen Turner]

1, The Walker shooting.

It also establishes.

5, The rifle used in the attempt on Walker, is the same as used on Kennedy.

Sorry I don't have the source handy, but is it not the case that the police initially reported that the bullet dug out of Walker's wall was Steel-Jacketed, whereas the Carcano fired copper-jacketed bullets. From what I recall, the Walker bullet only became copper-jacketed AFTER the assassination.

How does that fact (assuming it is a fact) fit into your theory?

After some searching, The ballistics evidence is to say the least troubling, and almost certainly flawed, if not actively rigged:The bullet that was removed from Walkers house was severly damagedby inpacting both a window frame, and lodging in a wall. The Committee firearms panel could not say whether it had been fired from the Carcano, however, it was claimed that a later neutron activation analysis indicated that it was LIKELY a 6.5-mm Mannlicher-Carcano bullet. That said, however, if the shooting was an attempt to show Oswald was capable of cold blooded murder, and the Carcano the chosen weapon in the upcomming attempt on the Presidents life, what other bullets are the conspritors going to use.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

.

Excellent thread. Stephen, you raise excellent questions which reinforce the circumstances relating to how Oswald was set up.

There are many inconsistencies (although minor) in the testimonies of Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt as well as Marina Oswald's as it relates to the Walker incident, the rifle and the backyard photos.

Thanks Antti, More on Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts from Mr Summers.

After the assassination, Marina's statements about her Husbands use of his rifle were ludicrously inconsistent. Two weeks after the tragedy she told the FBI she-"had never seen Oswald pratice with his rifle, or any other firearm, and he had never told her he was going to pratice-"She repeated this four times in a series of different interviews, adding that she had never seen Oswald practice with the rifle in Dallas or anywhere else. months later( months spent with various agents of the federal Government) she changed her story, saying he had trained with the rifle. She referred to an occasion in January 1963 when she had seen him cleaning the rifle, and he had mentioned he had been practicing that day. That was a bad slip-the rifle was not even ordered till two months later! By 1978, when she gave sworn testimony to Congress, Marina was saying that he used to clean his gun once a week and went out "quite often"to practice.

According to the de Morenschildts, describing their visit after the Wakler incident, both Oswald, and his Wife were just bursting to tell them how Lee liked going target shooting, Jeanne quoted marina as saying of Oswalds outings with the Baby that-" He goes in the park and shoots at leaves and things, the official report left out that gem-and no wonder. Nor was there any mention of the fact that, just as no ammunition was found amoung Oswalds effects, nor were any pull through cords, or other weapon cleaning equipment.

SEE ANYTHING GREEN?

[Antti Hynonen]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 09:34 AM

.

Excellent thread. Stephen, you raise excellent questions which reinforce the circumstances relating to how Oswald was set up.

There are many inconsistencies (although minor) in the testimonies of Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt as well as Marina Oswald's as it relates to the Walker incident, the rifle and the backyard photos.

Thanks Antti, More on Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts from Mr Summers.

After the assassination, Marina's statements about her Husbands use of his rifle were ludicrously inconsistent. Two weeks after the tragedy she told the FBI she-"had never seen Oswald pratice with his rifle, or any other firearm, and he had never told her he was going to pratice-"She repeated this four times in a series of different interviews, adding that she had never seen Oswald practice with the rifle in Dallas or anywhere else. months later( months spent with various agents of the federal Government) she changed her story, saying he had trained with the rifle. She referred to an occasion in January 1963 when she had seen him cleaning the rifle, and he had mentioned he had been practicing that day. That was a bad slip-the rifle was not even ordered till two months later! By 1978, when she gave sworn testimony to Congress, Marina was saying that he used to clean his gun once a week and went out "quite often"to practice.

According to the de Morenschildts, describing their visit after the Wakler incident, both Oswald, and his Wife were just bursting to tell them how Lee liked going target shooting, Jeanne quoted marina as saying of Oswalds outings with the Baby that-" He goes in the park and shoots at leaves and things, the official report left out that gem-and no wonder. Nor was there any mention of the fact that, just as no ammunition was found amoung Oswalds effects, nor were any pull through cords, or other weapon cleaning equipment.

SEE ANYTHING GREEN?

Quite so.

Oswald must have also hidden the rifle after the Walker incident into the ground without slipping on a gun case or any type of cover. Must be a very reliable weapon if you can go ahead and hide it somewhere outside for 3 days, not own any rifle cleaning equipment, and then continue to use the rifle without problems....

And where was Mr. DeMohrenschildt when he asked Lee whether he shot at Walker? Check all 3 testimonies, you will find 3 different versions, including hollering the question from the staircase to sitting on the couch etc.

And how many backyard photos did Marina acknowledge taking, first one, then two. It turns out some 5-6 were taken.....

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 09:34 AM

.

Excellent thread. Stephen, you raise excellent questions which reinforce the circumstances relating to how Oswald was set up.

There are many inconsistencies (although minor) in the testimonies of Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt as well as Marina Oswald's as it relates to the Walker incident, the rifle and the backyard photos.

Thanks Antti, More on Marina, and the de Mohrenschildts from Mr Summers.

After the assassination, Marina's statements about her Husbands use of his rifle were ludicrously inconsistent. Two weeks after the tragedy she told the FBI she-"had never seen Oswald pratice with his rifle, or any other firearm, and he had never told her he was going to pratice-"She repeated this four times in a series of different interviews, adding that she had never seen Oswald practice with the rifle in Dallas or anywhere else. months later( months spent with various agents of the federal Government) she changed her story, saying he had trained with the rifle. She referred to an occasion in January 1963 when she had seen him cleaning the rifle, and he had mentioned he had been practicing that day. That was a bad slip-the rifle was not even ordered till two months later! By 1978, when she gave sworn testimony to Congress, Marina was saying that he used to clean his gun once a week and went out "quite often"to practice.

According to the de Morenschildts, describing their visit after the Wakler incident, both Oswald, and his Wife were just bursting to tell them how Lee liked going target shooting, Jeanne quoted marina as saying of Oswalds outings with the Baby that-" He goes in the park and shoots at leaves and things, the official report left out that gem-and no wonder. Nor was there any mention of the fact that, just as no ammunition was found amoung Oswalds effects, nor were any pull through cords, or other weapon cleaning equipment.

SEE ANYTHING GREEN?

Quite so.

Oswald must have also hidden the rifle after the Walker incident into the ground without slipping on a gun case or any type of cover. Must be a very reliable weapon if you can go ahead and hide it somewhere outside for 3 days, not own any rifle cleaning equipment, and then continue to use the rifle without problems....

And where was Mr. DeMohrenschildt when he asked Lee whether he shot at Walker? Check all 3 testimonies, you will find 3 different versions, including hollering the question from the staircase to sitting on the couch etc.

And how many backyard photos did Marina acknowledge taking, first one, then two. It turns out some 5-6 were taken.....

In 1967,de Mohrenschildt declared he had come into into possession of some fresh evidence about Oswald, in the form of those never ending photographs, he said, that while sorting through luggage that had been left in storage he had discovered yet another photo of Oswald in his backyard, on the back were two insciptions, one, which examiners claimed was in Oswalds handwritting read-" To my friend George from Lee Oswald, and dated 5/iv/63, the date must refer to 5th April 1963, but writen in a way that Europians write the date, not Americans who normally write the month first, and the day second. In researching literally dozens of documents written by Oswald not one example could be found of a date writen like the one on the back of the photo.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

2, The Hidell alias.

Of all the many misdirections, coincidences, and just plain strangeness, the Hidell alias is one of the most perplexing. The Warren Commission's statement on this matter was quite simply untrue:"Investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the name Hidell, or names similar to it.....Diligent search has has failed to reveal any persons in Dallas, or New Orleans by that name."If fact their own files contained a statement by a John Rene Heindel, in which he says: "Whilst in the marine Corps, I was often referred to as Hidell-pronounced so as to rhyme with Rydell:""This was a nickname-not merely a mispronounciation." Heindell also said that he had served in the marines with Oswald, and had both been stationed at Asugi, in Japan, and further that he had lived in New Orleans, where Oswald was born, and had spent the Summer of 1963 there...All of this was, apprantly, of no interest to Earl Warren and his merry band.

If as many believe Oswald had some connection, how ever low level, to American Intelligence it in all probability began at Atsugi, where both Oswald, and Heindel were stationed, and which was also an operational base for the CIA. Heindell was never called to testify to either the W/C, or the HSCA, yet according to DPD testimony, and army draft card in "Hidells" name was found in Oswalds wallet (which one?) after his arrest, yet this is not made public until the next afternoon,after a mail order for the rifle, in that name is discovered.

[Antti Hynonen]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 11:15 AM

2, The Hidell alias.

Of all the many misdirections, coincidences, and just plain strangeness, the Hidell alias is one of the most perplexing. The Warren Commission's statement on this matter was quite simply untrue:"Investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the name Hidell, or names similar to it.....Diligent search has has failed to reveal any persons in Dallas, or New Orleans by that name."If fact their own files contained a statement by a John Rene Heindel, in which he says: "Whilst in the marine Corps, I was often referred to as Hidell-pronounced so as to rhyme with Rydell:""This was a nickname-not merely a mispronounciation." Heindell also said that he had served in the marines with Oswald, and had both been stationed at Asugi, in Japan, and further that he had lived in New Orleans, where Oswald was born, and had spent the Summer of 1963 there...All of this was, apprantly, of no interest to Earl Warren and his merry band.

If as many believe Oswald had some connection, how ever low level, to American Intelligence it in all probability began at Atsugi, where both Oswald, and Heindel were stationed, and which was also an operational base for the CIA. Heindell was never called to testify to either the W/C, or the HSCA, yet according to DPD testimony, and army draft card in "Hidells" name was found in Oswalds wallet (which one?) after his arrest, yet this is not made public until the next afternoon,after a mail order for the rifle, in that name is discovered.

Ah yes, the timing of the releasing of evidence is crucial...

[JL Allen]

I remember Marina testified that she had accused Lee of using the Hidell alias because it sounded like "Fidel". I never felt that her insinuation was a grounds for anything substantive. Recently, I found this document - an application for employment for GOLDRING's. On it, Lee lists his last employment as being active duty with the USMC - and indicates he had one other part-time job, previous - as a shoe salesman during the Easter holidays in 1959. At the bottom, Lee lists as one of his references a GEORGE HIDELL - who lived at 705 Polk Street and was a college student. I condensed some of the wasted space on the application to reduce the size of the file.

Edited September 25, 2006 by JL Allen

[Ryan Crowe]

7, That she knows lee owns the Carcano, and has for months before the assassination, thus giving him time to practice.

For years now ive been asking this question and so has Al Carrier, where in the hell are his cleaning supplies? where is his extra ammo? Oswald is suppose to own two guns, yet no extra ammo around, no cleaning swabs, solvents, bore brushes, cleaning rods.

A Marine with a dirty rifle makes about as much sense as Oswald pulling the trigger.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Ryan Crowe