Return to Roscoe White

[Alan Espy]

As a caveat, I am a newcomer to the boards and, although I have had an avid interest in the subject matter for 30 years, am a novice in this area compared to most who roam here. With that as a predicate, I would like to venture a few thoughts. While a rookie on the boards I have worked for nearly 24 years as a civil trial lawyer and am used to evaluating witnesses and evidence.

Roscoe White. In all the reading I have done on him I cannot escape the conclusion that he was involved somehow. While the credibility of the story was hurt (perhaps fatally) early by the greed of those seeking to capitalize on it, there are many aspects of this story which i find compelling.

1. White shows up at the Dallas PD at an opportune time. He does not, to my knowledge, have any prior experience in law enforcement. His position is as some sort of photgrapher. He would seem like a convenient plant in that postion if "the conspirators" needed someone inside DPD.

2. White stayed at the DPD for less than two years after the assassination.

3. The Mandarin cables seem highly suspicous to say the least. While I have read where they too were forgeries, I have never seen a "scientific" or "expert" explanation that they were forgeries. If the Mandarin cables were legit, it is pretty obvious White was involved in some sinister business.

4. The White/Oswald connection in the USMC while not conclusive of anything, is certainly conspicuous given that White turns up at the Dallas PD in late 1963 (and subsequently in possession of mystery backyard photos).

5. White's wife, Geneva, just happens to be working for Ruby during this relevant time period. (At this point the coincidences are becoming to great for me to ignore.)

6. White's wife has indicated that during the mid 60's White was frequently making unexplained trips to different places, particularly New Orleans.

7. Gerry Hemming, who I gather from these boards is both an eccentric sort and someone who knows a great deal about what was going on back in 1963, was quoted in the Texas Monthly article on the White affair, that he remembered White trying to sell him some rifles on a trip to Dallas in 1963 when Hemming was trying to raise money for Cuban exiles.

8. The disinformation machine seemed to go into overdrive when the White story broke in 1990.

All of these factors suggest to me a "where there is smoke, there is fire" scenario with White. Of course I can understand the scepticism some may have given the forged diary and the "fishy" green book. It would seem that those trying so hard to capitalize on the story "screwed the pooch" at some point.

I am interested in other's opinions about why the story is a hoax or has some validity.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Alan Espy

[Guest Mark Valenti]

All of these factors suggest to me a "where there is smoke, there is fire" scenario with White. Of course I can understand the scepticism some may have given the forged diary and the "fishy" green book. It would seem that those trying so hard to capitalize on the story "screwed the pooch" at some point.

I am interested in other's opinions about why the story is a hoax or has some validity.

Other Dallas cops stayed on the force for a much shorter period of time after the assassination. Harry Olsen, for one major example. And Harry actually knew Jack Ruby and had indirect connections to LHO as well.

The Roscoe White story fell apart when his promoters made claims they could not back up with hard evidence. They referenced the existence of items which they never produced.

There's no prima facie evidence for anything other than heresay. White's family realized they had a potential to make money if they created a fantastic story. They didn't anticipate being hit with so many questions they couldn't explain. The story exploded and everyone scattered like the wind.

[Jack White]

As a caveat, I am a newcomer to the boards and, although I have had an avid interest in the subject matter for 30 years, am a novice in this area compared to most who roam here. With that as a predicate, I would like to venture a few thoughts. While a rookie on the boards I have worked for nearly 24 years as a civil trial lawyer and am used to evaluating witnesses and evidence.

Roscoe White. In all the reading I have done on him I cannot escape the conclusion that he was involved somehow. While the credibility of the story was hurt (perhaps fatally) early by the greed of those seeking to capitalize on it, there are many aspects of this story which i find compelling.

1. White shows up at the Dallas PD at an opportune time. He does not, to my knowledge, have any prior experience in law enforcement. His position is as some sort of photgrapher. He would seem like a convenient plant in that postion if "the conspirators" needed someone inside DPD.

2. White stayed at the DPD for less than two years after the assassination.

3. The Mandarin cables seem highly suspicous to say the least. While I have read where they too were forgeries, I have never seen a "scientific" or "expert" explanation that they were forgeries. If the Mandarin cables were legit, it is pretty obvious White was involved in some sinister business.

4. The White/Oswald connection in the USMC while not conclusive of anything, is certainly conspicuous given that White turns up at the Dallas PD in late 1963 (and subsequently in possession of mystery backyard photos).

5. White's wife, Geneva, just happens to be working for Ruby during this relevant time period. (At this point the coincidences are becoming to great for me to ignore.)

6. White's wife has indicated that during the mid 60's White was frequently making unexplained trips to different places, particularly New Orleans.

7. Gerry Hemming, who I gather from these boards is both an eccentric sort and someone who knows a great deal about what was going on back in 1963, was quoted in the Texas Monthly article on the White affair, that he remembered White trying to sell him some rifles on a trip to Dallas in 1963 when Hemming was trying to raise money for Cuban exiles.

8. The disinformation machine seemed to go into overdrive when the White story broke in 1990.

All of these factors suggest to me a "where there is smoke, there is fire" scenario with White. Of course I can understand the scepticism some may have given the forged diary and the "fishy" green book. It would seem that those trying so hard to capitalize on the story "screwed the pooch" at some point.

I am interested in other's opinions about why the story is a hoax or has some validity.

Alan...welcome to the fray! Your eight points and comments are on the nose

in my opinion. I believe Roscoe was involved in some peripheral way in the

assassination. I believe he may have fabricated and posed for the backyard

photos. I believe that an intelligence agency placed him within the DPD for

some purpose. I am closer to some of the principals than most researchers,

and have discussed the Roscoe affair at length with Ricky White, Larry Howard

and J. Gary Shaw. There is much that has NOT been made public. There has

been much disinformation. There were "agents" who infiltrated the JFK-AIC

to steal information and disrupt the story. And Ricky and Matsu did everything

all wrong in trying to strike it rich. Then four of the five principals presenting

the news conference suddenly met untimely deaths.

Ricky is a sincere guy, and believes everything he says. Some things he says

have been distorted and twisted. I hope that someday his father's story

will come out. It needs vigorous investigation.

Thanks for your input.

Jack

Edited September 26, 2006 by Jack White

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Jack,

If there is more info it's vitally important that someone releases it. Otherwise I think most people could eventually come to the conclusion I reached, which is that while Roscoe White's story is fascinating and peripherally touched many historic elements, it all seemed like a scam. If it is not a scam and there is indeed solid evidence yet to be revealed, I'd be the first in line to admit I was wrong.

MV

[Jack White]

Jack,

If there is more info it's vitally important that someone releases it. Otherwise I think most people could eventually come to the conclusion I reached, which is that while Roscoe White's story is fascinating and peripherally touched many historic elements, it all seemed like a scam. If it is not a scam and there is indeed solid evidence yet to be revealed, I'd be the first in line to admit I was wrong.

MV

The only people left who can tell the story are Ricky, and J. Gary Shaw.

As most know, Gary retired from researching after Larry Howard, Joe

West, Bud Fensterwald and Larry Ray Harris all died untimely deaths

in the same time frame, not long after the Ricky news conference, in

which the five were the principal presenters of the Roscoe story. Gary

got the message.

Jack

[Alan Espy]

Jack,

If there is more info it's vitally important that someone releases it. Otherwise I think most people could eventually come to the conclusion I reached, which is that while Roscoe White's story is fascinating and peripherally touched many historic elements, it all seemed like a scam. If it is not a scam and there is indeed solid evidence yet to be revealed, I'd be the first in line to admit I was wrong.

MV

The only people left who can tell the story are Ricky, and J. Gary Shaw.

As most know, Gary retired from researching after Larry Howard, Joe

West, Bud Fensterwald and Larry Ray Harris all died untimely deaths

in the same time frame, not long after the Ricky news conference, in

which the five were the principal presenters of the Roscoe story. Gary

got the message.

Jack

Jack-any chance we could get Ricky White into this forum to discuss things?

[Michael Hogan]

I am closer to some of the principals than most researchers,

and have discussed the Roscoe affair at length with Ricky White, Larry Howard

and J. Gary Shaw. There is much that has NOT been made public. There has

been much disinformation. There were "agents" who infiltrated the JFK-AIC

to steal information and disrupt the story. And Ricky and Matsu did everything

all wrong in trying to strike it rich. Then four of the five principals presenting

the news conference suddenly met untimely deaths.

The only people left who can tell the story are Ricky, and J. Gary Shaw.

As most know, Gary retired from researching after Larry Howard, Joe

West, Bud Fensterwald and Larry Ray Harris all died untimely deaths

in the same time frame, not long after the Ricky news conference, in

which the five were the principal presenters of the Roscoe story. Gary

got the message.

Jack, it seems you could tell a lot of the story, should you ever choose to. At this point in your life, do you still have any fears for your personal safety?

Mike

[Jack White]

I am closer to some of the principals than most researchers,

and have discussed the Roscoe affair at length with Ricky White, Larry Howard

and J. Gary Shaw. There is much that has NOT been made public. There has

been much disinformation. There were "agents" who infiltrated the JFK-AIC

to steal information and disrupt the story. And Ricky and Matsu did everything

all wrong in trying to strike it rich. Then four of the five principals presenting

the news conference suddenly met untimely deaths.

The only people left who can tell the story are Ricky, and J. Gary Shaw.

As most know, Gary retired from researching after Larry Howard, Joe

West, Bud Fensterwald and Larry Ray Harris all died untimely deaths

in the same time frame, not long after the Ricky news conference, in

which the five were the principal presenters of the Roscoe story. Gary

got the message.

Jack, it seems you could tell a lot of the story, should you ever choose to. At this point in your life, do you still have any fears for your personal safety?

Mike

I do not know the full story. J. Gary Shaw and Ricky are not talking.

I do not know much more than is publicly known, but the JFK-AIC

talked to many witnesses and did much research which has never

been made public.

I know nothing FIRST-HAND, so I am not in danger.

Jack

[Brian Smith]

I read the Great Zapruder Film Hoax, and your observations on the similarities in shape between "Oswald's" chin in the backyard photos, and the shape of White's chin in photos taken around the same time, were eye opening to say the least.

[Dawn Meredith]

Jack,

If there is more info it's vitally important that someone releases it. Otherwise I think most people could eventually come to the conclusion I reached, which is that while Roscoe White's story is fascinating and peripherally touched many historic elements, it all seemed like a scam. If it is not a scam and there is indeed solid evidence yet to be revealed, I'd be the first in line to admit I was wrong.

MV

The only people left who can tell the story are Ricky, and J. Gary Shaw.

As most know, Gary retired from researching after Larry Howard, Joe

West, Bud Fensterwald and Larry Ray Harris all died untimely deaths

in the same time frame, not long after the Ricky news conference, in

which the five were the principal presenters of the Roscoe story. Gary

got the message.

Jack

I remember the huge story in the local paper here in Austin when the Roscoe White story first broke. Back in the day when Earl Golz was still writing. It certainly seemed to have a lot of fire to me. Then all the deaths. I met Larry Howard's widow in Dallas in 97 and she was pretty convinced her husband had been killed. The number of deaths following that story was staggering. All young men too, comparatively speaking.

Tx has more than its share of weirdness when it comes to who killed Jack Kennedy. I always said they did it in Dallas because they COULD.

Redneck, oil rot to the core. JFK was not to the liking of the right wing in Dallas. Peace was not on their agenda.

Dawn

[Wim Dankbaar]

Roscoe White is indeed an interesting figure.

Although I believe that Ricky's story cannot be accurate as a whole, I believe that the Roscoe White's story has been "debunked" as a "hoax" without proper justification.

Beverly Oliver (the babushka lady) asserts that she encountered Patrick Dean and Roscoe White on the parking lot behind the picket fence.

Also, the third backyard photograph of Oswald was retrieved from Roscoe White's possesions.

Then we have the irrefutable connection to Jack Ruby (f.e. picture of Ruby with Geneva White) .

Mike Browloh showed me a picture of Dallas police officers, including White, looking up to the Schoolbook depository.

Maybe someone has that picture to post here?

So there is little doubt he was on duty at the crimescene that day, and certainly no doubt he joined the Dallas Police in october 1963.

There's also evidence he knew Lee Harvey Oswald, not only in Dallas, but from a more distant past in the Marines. Tosh Plumlee is one of those who has information on that:

A: Roscoe White was at the radar complex and jungle warfare training in Honolulu and that's where I first met him. When I say met him...I would have never, never have picked Roscoe White and my feelings, it's a tragedy of what happened to Roscoe White's life. He was an operative. He was military intelligence. Basically, I think he was a good man. This other investigation a few years ago that came out...that however that went...the sensationalism of that was done very poorly because what it has done nowadays has totally discredited Roscoe White as being a military operative. The fact that Oswald and Roscoe White, the radar complex, and jungle warfare training, and Nagshead, North Carolina and all these things......

Q: When was the last time you saw Roscoe White?

A: The last time I saw Roscoe White was over in Honolulu and that was about '59. I had no liaison with White, you know, after that. I wasn't even aware that he was possibly in the Plaza until some researchers indicated that to me by pictures and I identified him as working at the radar complex from pictures that researchers had shown me stating he was in Dallas.

Q: Are you saying that you saw Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald together?

A: Not together, at the same place and the same time. There was a ship that went over with White and a bunch of Marines and I can't remember the name of that particular ship, and I think that Oswald was on board that ship.

So it is at least remarkable that Roscoe White has remained such an anonymous figure in the official investigations.

Wim

[Wim Dankbaar]

Roscoe White is indeed an interesting figure.

Although I believe that Ricky's story cannot be accurate as a whole, I believe that the Roscoe White's story has been "debunked" as a "hoax" without proper justification.

Beverly Oliver (the babushka lady) asserts that she encountered Patrick Dean and Roscoe White on the parking lot behind the picket fence.

Also, the third backyard photograph of Oswald was retrieved from Roscoe White's possesions.

Then we have the irrefutable connection to Jack Ruby (f.e. picture of Ruby with Geneva White) .

Mike Browloh showed me a picture of Dallas police officers, including White, looking up to the Schoolbook depository.

Maybe someone has that picture to post here?

So there is little doubt he was on duty at the crimescene that day, and certainly no doubt he joined the Dallas Police in october 1963.

There's also evidence he knew Lee Harvey Oswald, not only in Dallas, but from a more distant past in the Marines. Tosh Plumlee is one of those who has information on that:

A: Roscoe White was at the radar complex and jungle warfare training in Honolulu and that's where I first met him. When I say met him...I would have never, never have picked Roscoe White and my feelings, it's a tragedy of what happened to Roscoe White's life. He was an operative. He was military intelligence. Basically, I think he was a good man. This other investigation a few years ago that came out...that however that went...the sensationalism of that was done very poorly because what it has done nowadays has totally discredited Roscoe White as being a military operative. The fact that Oswald and Roscoe White, the radar complex, and jungle warfare training, and Nagshead, North Carolina and all these things......

Q: When was the last time you saw Roscoe White?

A: The last time I saw Roscoe White was over in Honolulu and that was about '59. I had no liaison with White, you know, after that. I wasn't even aware that he was possibly in the Plaza until some researchers indicated that to me by pictures and I identified him as working at the radar complex from pictures that researchers had shown me stating he was in Dallas.

Q: Are you saying that you saw Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald together?

A: Not together, at the same place and the same time. There was a ship that went over with White and a bunch of Marines and I can't remember the name of that particular ship, and I think that Oswald was on board that ship.

So it is at least remarkable that Roscoe White has remained such an anonymous figure in the official investigations.

Wim

[Jack White]

Roscoe White is indeed an interesting figure.

Although I believe that Ricky's story cannot be accurate as a whole, I believe that the Roscoe White's story has been "debunked" as a "hoax" without proper justification.

Beverly Oliver (the babushka lady) asserts that she encountered Patrick Dean and Roscoe White on the parking lot behind the picket fence.

Also, the third backyard photograph of Oswald was retrieved from Roscoe White's possesions.

Then we have the irrefutable connection to Jack Ruby (f.e. picture of Ruby with Geneva White) .

Mike Browloh showed me a picture of Dallas police officers, including White, looking up to the Schoolbook depository.

Maybe someone has that picture to post here?

So there is little doubt he was on duty at the crimescene that day, and certainly no doubt he joined the Dallas Police in october 1963.

There's also evidence he knew Lee Harvey Oswald, not only in Dallas, but from a more distant past in the Marines. Tosh Plumlee is one of those who has information on that:

A: Roscoe White was at the radar complex and jungle warfare training in Honolulu and that's where I first met him. When I say met him...I would have never, never have picked Roscoe White and my feelings, it's a tragedy of what happened to Roscoe White's life. He was an operative. He was military intelligence. Basically, I think he was a good man. This other investigation a few years ago that came out...that however that went...the sensationalism of that was done very poorly because what it has done nowadays has totally discredited Roscoe White as being a military operative. The fact that Oswald and Roscoe White, the radar complex, and jungle warfare training, and Nagshead, North Carolina and all these things......

Q: When was the last time you saw Roscoe White?

A: The last time I saw Roscoe White was over in Honolulu and that was about '59. I had no liaison with White, you know, after that. I wasn't even aware that he was possibly in the Plaza until some researchers indicated that to me by pictures and I identified him as working at the radar complex from pictures that researchers had shown me stating he was in Dallas.

Q: Are you saying that you saw Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald together?

A: Not together, at the same place and the same time. There was a ship that went over with White and a bunch of Marines and I can't remember the name of that particular ship, and I think that Oswald was on board that ship.

So it is at least remarkable that Roscoe White has remained such an anonymous figure in the official investigations.

Wim

I am once again in agreement with Wim!

Another apparent connection between Roscoe and LHO is this photo allegedly

found by DPD in LHO belongings at Paine's.

In the center of the photo, taken somewhere in far east, possibly Philippines,

is someone, hands on hips, who is identical to Roscoe White.

The photo is dated May 59, and alleged to be made with the LHO Imperial

Reflex.

Jack

[Wim Dankbaar]

I am once again in agreement with Wim!

**********

Maybe we'll agree on everything one day!

Gary Mack and Dave Perry were instrumental in shoving Roscoe White under the carpet in the eyes of the public.

Wim

[Jack White]

Roscoe White is indeed an interesting figure.

Although I believe that Ricky's story cannot be accurate as a whole, I believe that the Roscoe White's story has been "debunked" as a "hoax" without proper justification.

Beverly Oliver (the babushka lady) asserts that she encountered Patrick Dean and Roscoe White on the parking lot behind the picket fence.

Also, the third backyard photograph of Oswald was retrieved from Roscoe White's possesions.

Then we have the irrefutable connection to Jack Ruby (f.e. picture of Ruby with Geneva White) .

Mike Browloh showed me a picture of Dallas police officers, including White, looking up to the Schoolbook depository.

Maybe someone has that picture to post here?

So there is little doubt he was on duty at the crimescene that day, and certainly no doubt he joined the Dallas Police in october 1963.

There's also evidence he knew Lee Harvey Oswald, not only in Dallas, but from a more distant past in the Marines. Tosh Plumlee is one of those who has information on that:

A: Roscoe White was at the radar complex and jungle warfare training in Honolulu and that's where I first met him. When I say met him...I would have never, never have picked Roscoe White and my feelings, it's a tragedy of what happened to Roscoe White's life. He was an operative. He was military intelligence. Basically, I think he was a good man. This other investigation a few years ago that came out...that however that went...the sensationalism of that was done very poorly because what it has done nowadays has totally discredited Roscoe White as being a military operative. The fact that Oswald and Roscoe White, the radar complex, and jungle warfare training, and Nagshead, North Carolina and all these things......

Q: When was the last time you saw Roscoe White?

A: The last time I saw Roscoe White was over in Honolulu and that was about '59. I had no liaison with White, you know, after that. I wasn't even aware that he was possibly in the Plaza until some researchers indicated that to me by pictures and I identified him as working at the radar complex from pictures that researchers had shown me stating he was in Dallas.

Q: Are you saying that you saw Roscoe White and Lee Harvey Oswald together?

A: Not together, at the same place and the same time. There was a ship that went over with White and a bunch of Marines and I can't remember the name of that particular ship, and I think that Oswald was on board that ship.

So it is at least remarkable that Roscoe White has remained such an anonymous figure in the official investigations.

Wim

I am once again in agreement with Wim!

Another apparent connection between Roscoe and LHO is this photo allegedly

found by DPD in LHO belongings at Paine's.

In the center of the photo, taken somewhere in far east, possibly Philippines,

is someone, hands on hips, who is identical to Roscoe White.

The photo is dated May 59, and alleged to be made with the LHO Imperial

Reflex.

Jack

Comparison of known photo of Roscoe with the pic "taken by LHO" indicates

that "LHO took a photo of Roscoe". Also note the CHIN in both photos looks

like the chin in the backyard photos.

Jack

Edited September 27, 2006 by Jack White