JFK vs. The Federal Reserve

[Dawn Meredith]

Cliff: Yes my good "sister" pal Terry Mauro was quite alive on 11/22/63- she was 18. I am certain she would not mind me answering this question for her. And I am equally cetain she'll be pleased that you think her forum pic portrays her as not yet born in '63. I can assure you-having just seen her a few weeks ago- that this pic is a recent one.

Dawn

[Terry Mauro]

"That's funny, the film of the assassination was suppresed for almost 12 years."

Well guess what, wiseass? We didn't have to see the actual film to be traumatized that day.

"I guess Rockefeller/Morgan wanted to bring the nation to its knees in the

MID-SEVENTIES...?"

Well, you know what else, asshole? I started questioning the WCR, from the minute those crude sketches came out in The New York Times in June 1964. I shouldn't EVEN have to reiterate the same words I've repeated countless times [on other threads and on other forums] of what exactly was going through my mind, nor the distinct feeling that came over me of how MY OWN xxxxING

GOVERNMENT WAS LYING TO ME, and I was nineteen years old at that time.

"Well, Rocky was VP by that time, so maybe these guys *are* that prescient..."

You're pissing in the wind, Varnell.

And what audio of the assassination are you refering to?

You know something, Varnell? You are really barking up the wrong tree when you attempt to take me on. THE AUDIO I WAS REFERRING TO happened to be the first accounts coming in over a CBS News Bulletin, at 2:00 PM [after my mother had dropped me off from just having had the first half of my wisdom teeth surgery done] and I was lying on the couch in our living-room waiting for her to come back from the Rexall Drugstore with antibiotics and Demerol. I jumped up off the couch and couldn't move my mouth to talk, cry, or scream out. The people in Manhattan were thunderstruck and went into a state of shock, just like what happened during 9/11. It was bi-partisan in reaction, Democrats and Republicans, alike. We thought a bomb was going to be dropped on us by Russia. We felt naked, vulnerable, panicked, and depressed ALL AT THE SAME TIME! You see, this was being felt, TELEVISED, observed, and IN YOUR FACE, right at the hub, the nerve center, the heartbeat, of the Western World, NOT in some po-dunk place like Petaluma, for chrissakes! This was broadcast on a scale so massive and monumental in scope, that if you think for one minute it wasn't intended to be psychologically crippling to a nation, then your ability to use your reasoning faculties leaves alot to be desired.

Therefore, when you deride my explanation or description of MAXIMUM EFFECT believe me when I tell you, this country DID NOT NEED TO VIEW THE ZAPRUDER CARTOON, in order to experience what MAXIMUM EFFECT felt like. WE xxxxING LIVED IT! We were forced to stand by and watch our brothers, boyfriends, and husbands be marched off to a place that had never even fired a xxxxing shot at us!!! And for what? JFK said he would be bringing the boys back home by the beginning of '64. I didn't have to worry about my boyfriend get shipped out to Laos. That's what they called the place, back then, LAOS. And then, right there on a sunny day on some downtown street in Big D, at HIGH NOON, my dreams as well as a whole generation's were blown to smithereens just as sure as if we'd been standing there watching it, ourselves. And then, after what they tried to palm off on us with the WCR, I just knew at the tender age of nineteen that I would never be safe again, that I would never be able to trust a government official to tell me the truth, ever again. And, one by one they began to murder what was left of our heroes, and more and more body bags began arriving back home.

If you don't think this country is run by the corporate, military, financial houses that were built upon the backs of plebes, immigrants, slaves, and indentured servants who dug their oil wells, milled their steel, mined their coal, laid their tracks, slaughtered the Native Americans inhabiting the property they eminent domained under the guise of their Manifest Destiny. And, if you don't think that this power structure deals in the trade of WAR for the primary and sole reason other than to make a buck for themselves, and to hell with what they consider to be an expendable supply of lower and middle-class human beings. Then, go on and continue to delude yourself into thinking it was as cut and dry as, CUBA DID IT. Because, it only serves to confirm how dumb you truly are.

How come I could figure this out by 1968? And, all the while I had been thinking that the REAL REASON they had our sorry asses over there in SEA was because they wanted to extract all the tin, and titanium, not to protect South Viet Namese from the Viet Cong. Silly me! Then, come to find out, it was for the heroin and opium, all along. How stupid of me? Oil, tin, titanium, heroin, cocaine...what the hell, it's all a commodity to be sold on the market, and on The Stock Market, at that. And, who gets to pocket all that change?

"Were you alive on 11/22/63, Terry? (Your photo indicates you were not)."

You've got yourself a case of hoof 'n' mouth disease, Varnell.

"The only visual this 8 year old in Petaluma CA saw was a picture of Kennedy

on the cover of the local newspaper. As I recall vividly, the one aspect of

that weekend following the assassination that most sticks in my mind, is

that there was nothing on television and I spent that weekend bored

out of my mind."

Well, what can one expect from someone who hadn't even reached the "age of reason" by that time? You should've been outside playing baseball, or football, or doing your chores if you lived on a farm.

"Oswald getting shot by Ruby -- maybe "they" thought that would traumatize

the nation. Otherwise, that has to be the weakest psy-op ever attempted.

Taking people's regularly scheduled entertainment away for a weekend led

to the war in Vietnam?....not so much."

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

[Ashton Gray]

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

Terry, how can we coax you out of your shell?

Ashton

[Cliff Varnell]

"That's funny, the film of the assassination was suppresed for almost 12 years."

Well guess what, wiseass? We didn't have to see the actual film to be

traumatized that day.

You claimed it was done for maximum visual effect.

The reason liberal Republicans whack a moderate Democratic President

was to create maximum visual effect?

You're making this up out of your own fevered imagination.

"I guess Rockefeller/Morgan wanted to bring the nation to its knees in the

MID-SEVENTIES...?"

Well, you know what else, asshole?

Yes, Neo-Con queen?

I started questioning the WCR, from the minute those crude sketches came out in The New York Times in June 1964. I shouldn't EVEN have to reiterate the same words I've repeated countless times [on other threads and on other forums]of what exactly was going through my mind, nor the distinct feeling that came over me of how MY OWN xxxxING

GOVERNMENT WAS LYING TO ME, and I was nineteen years old at that time.

Big deal.

Ruby whacked Oswald and my old man said the US government was behind the whole

thing. He was a Kennedy liberal from Arkansas, my Pop. Of course, we lived about 50

miles north of San Francisco and enjoyed a fresher view of world and national affairs

than those poor souls back east who were kept in the dark and fed xxxx.

It's true. When the MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE was pulled off the market after

the Kennedy assassination, there was only one TV station in the country that

broadcast it: KTVU Oakland.

There's always been a freer flow of information in the San Francisco Bay Area.

"Well, Rocky was VP by that time, so maybe these guys *are* that prescient..."

You're pissing in the wind, Varnell.[

To maximum visual effect.

And what audio of the assassination are you refering to?

You know something, Varnell? You are really barking up the wrong tree when you attempt to take me on.

This is a fight you picked. I made a collegial argument that a powerful cabal

within the National Security state murdered Kennedy and for that you accused

me of being a lamebrained Langley whore, or words to that effect.

Well, I think you're a Neo-Con shill givin' the Texas perps a pass, so there.

THE AUDIO I WAS REFERRING TO happened to be the first accounts coming in over a CBS News Bulletin, at 2:00 PM [after my mother had dropped me off from just having had the first half of my wisdom teeth surgery done] and I was lying on the couch in our living-room waiting for her to come back from the Rexall Drugstore with antibiotics and Demerol. I jumped up off the couch and couldn't move my mouth to talk, cry, or scream out. The people in Manhattan were thunderstruck and went into a state of shock, just like what happened during 9/11. It was bi-partisan in reaction, Democrats and Republicans, alike. We thought a bomb was going to be dropped on us by Russia.

Yeah, we didn't have that problem out West. We're not given to such hysterical

over-reaction...Given the tenor of your posts...I take it you've never recovered.

We felt naked, vulnerable, panicked, and depressed ALL AT THE SAME TIME! You see, this was being felt, TELEVISED, observed, and IN YOUR FACE, right at the hub, the nerve center, the heartbeat, of the Western World, NOT in some po-dunk place like Petaluma, for chrissakes! This was broadcast on a scale so massive and monumental in scope, that if you think for one minute it wasn't intended to be psychologically crippling to a nation, then your ability to use your reasoning faculties leaves alot to be desired.

They could have achieved the same result without the elaborate ambush.

Therefore, when you deride my explanation or description of MAXIMUM EFFECT

I deride your claim that the assassination was done to maximum visual effect.

You're inventing things because you have a weak argument. Weak arguments

always tend to ad hominem.

believe me when I tell you, this country DID NOT NEED TO VIEW THE ZAPRUDER CARTOON, in order to experience what MAXIMUM EFFECT felt like. WE xxxxING LIVED IT! We were forced to stand by and watch our brothers, boyfriends, and husbands be marched off to a place that had never even fired a xxxxing shot at us!!! And for what? JFK said he would be bringing the boys back home by the beginning of '64. I didn't have to worry about my boyfriend get shipped out to Laos. That's what they called the place, back then, LAOS. And then, right there on a sunny day on some downtown street in Big D, at HIGH NOON, my dreams as well as a whole generation's were blown to smithereens just as sure as if we'd been standing there watching it, ourselves. And then, after what they tried to palm off on us with the WCR, I just knew at the tender age of nineteen that I would never be safe again, that I would never be able to trust a government official to tell me the truth, ever again. And, one by one they began to murder what was left of our heroes, and more and more body bags began arriving back home.

My brother volunteered for 'Nam. My Pop told me never to ask him about it, it wasn't

to be discussed, period. My first cousin didn't come back with all the same parts that

he took over there.

So the LAST thing I need from some stuck up New York clown is a xxxxING LECTURE

ABOUT VIETNAM.

I'm done with you.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

Terry, how can we coax you out of your shell?

Ashton

Ashton, care to explain why the Parkland docs immediately performed a

trach on a guy with a big hole in the back of his head but no throat wound?

Just curious...

[Terry Mauro]

"That's funny, the film of the assassination was suppresed for almost 12 years."

Well guess what, wiseass? We didn't have to see the actual film to be

traumatized that day.

You claimed it was done for maximum visual effect.

The reason liberal Republicans whack a moderate Democratic President

was to create maximum visual effect?

You're making this up out of your own fevered imagination.

"I guess Rockefeller/Morgan wanted to bring the nation to its knees in the

MID-SEVENTIES...?"

Well, you know what else, asshole?

Yes, Neo-Con queen?

I started questioning the WCR, from the minute those crude sketches came out in The New York Times in June 1964. I shouldn't EVEN have to reiterate the same words I've repeated countless times [on other threads and on other forums]of what exactly was going through my mind, nor the distinct feeling that came over me of how MY OWN xxxxING

GOVERNMENT WAS LYING TO ME, and I was nineteen years old at that time.

Big deal.

Ruby whacked Oswald and my old man said the US government was behind the whole

thing. He was a Kennedy liberal from Arkansas, my Pop. Of course, we lived about 50

miles north of San Francisco and enjoyed a fresher view of world and national affairs

than those poor souls back east who were kept in the dark and fed xxxx.

It's true. When the MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE was pulled off the market after

the Kennedy assassination, there was only one TV station in the country that

broadcast it: KTVU Oakland.

There's always been a freer flow of information in the San Francisco Bay Area.

"Well, Rocky was VP by that time, so maybe these guys *are* that prescient..."

You're pissing in the wind, Varnell.[

To maximum visual effect.

And what audio of the assassination are you refering to?

You know something, Varnell? You are really barking up the wrong tree when you attempt to take me on.

This is a fight you picked. I made a collegial argument that a powerful cabal

within the National Security state murdered Kennedy and for that you accused

me of being a lamebrained Langley whore, or words to that effect.

Well, I think you're a Neo-Con shill givin' the Texas perps a pass, so there.

THE AUDIO I WAS REFERRING TO happened to be the first accounts coming in over a CBS News Bulletin, at 2:00 PM [after my mother had dropped me off from just having had the first half of my wisdom teeth surgery done] and I was lying on the couch in our living-room waiting for her to come back from the Rexall Drugstore with antibiotics and Demerol. I jumped up off the couch and couldn't move my mouth to talk, cry, or scream out. The people in Manhattan were thunderstruck and went into a state of shock, just like what happened during 9/11. It was bi-partisan in reaction, Democrats and Republicans, alike. We thought a bomb was going to be dropped on us by Russia.

Yeah, we didn't have that problem out West. We're not given to such hysterical

over-reaction...Given the tenor of your posts...I take it you've never recovered.

We felt naked, vulnerable, panicked, and depressed ALL AT THE SAME TIME! You see, this was being felt, TELEVISED, observed, and IN YOUR FACE, right at the hub, the nerve center, the heartbeat, of the Western World, NOT in some po-dunk place like Petaluma, for chrissakes! This was broadcast on a scale so massive and monumental in scope, that if you think for one minute it wasn't intended to be psychologically crippling to a nation, then your ability to use your reasoning faculties leaves alot to be desired.

They could have achieved the same result without the elaborate ambush.

Therefore, when you deride my explanation or description of MAXIMUM EFFECT

I deride your claim that the assassination was done to maximum visual effect.

You're inventing things because you have a weak argument. Weak arguments

always tend to ad hominem.

believe me when I tell you, this country DID NOT NEED TO VIEW THE ZAPRUDER CARTOON, in order to experience what MAXIMUM EFFECT felt like. WE xxxxING LIVED IT! We were forced to stand by and watch our brothers, boyfriends, and husbands be marched off to a place that had never even fired a xxxxing shot at us!!! And for what? JFK said he would be bringing the boys back home by the beginning of '64. I didn't have to worry about my boyfriend get shipped out to Laos. That's what they called the place, back then, LAOS. And then, right there on a sunny day on some downtown street in Big D, at HIGH NOON, my dreams as well as a whole generation's were blown to smithereens just as sure as if we'd been standing there watching it, ourselves. And then, after what they tried to palm off on us with the WCR, I just knew at the tender age of nineteen that I would never be safe again, that I would never be able to trust a government official to tell me the truth, ever again. And, one by one they began to murder what was left of our heroes, and more and more body bags began arriving back home.

My brother volunteered for 'Nam. My Pop told me never to ask him about it, it wasn't

to be discussed, period. My first cousin didn't come back with all the same parts that

he took over there.

So the LAST thing I need from some stuck up New York clown is a xxxxING LECTURE

ABOUT VIETNAM.

I'm done with you.

*******************************************************

"The reason liberal Republicans whack a moderate Democratic President

was to create maximum visual effect?"

Liberal Republicans did not orchestrate, produce, or direct this coup.

"I deride your claim that the assassination was done to maximum visual effect."

Audio/visual for maximum effect = the first bulletin reports coming in over the news wires and being broadcast via the only visual form of media at that time, television which if you had been paying attention, but I don't hold that against you due to your young age, at the time the event took place. And thank God, for your youth, which helped to insulate you from the horror of it all, to a certain extent.

I, for one, will always carry in my heart and mind, the sound of "Hail To The Chief" being played as a dirge, the picture of his horse, riderless with the boots turned backward, John-John playing with a toy and Jackie pulling him back to her side, while JFK's coffin was being wheeled by on a casson, and John-John saluting to it, like the Marines surrounding him and his family were. Jackie standing there with her tear-stained face covered in widows' weeds.

I. for one, will never completely recover from watching a President, whom I loved and admired, and was going to vote for in the following year, because he held the hopes of a generation, who had been promised by our fathers, that we would never be forced to fight in another war like they had, in order to preserve democracy, because they had taken care of that for us. We were forging a New Frontieer that focussed on world peace, space exploration, civil rights for all people, a war on poverty, not on human beings. A de-escalation of our involvement in the Laos/Viet Nam conflict [which is what they referred to it as, back then, a conflict. This was no cut and dry "Pearl Harbor", or "Dachau, Aushwitz, Bergen-Belsen"], and a nuclear disarmament treaty with the U.S.S.R. The Peace Corps was sending our best and brightest to the far corners of the world, giving us the opportunity to live among other cultures, that we might learn and exchange ideas, forge common bonds with people from vastly different walks of life.

"Well, I think you're a Neo-Con shill givin' the Texas perps a pass, so there."

I'd bitch-slap you, if I wasn't laughing so hard at you! I'm more of a Socialist, or a Communist [in some peoples' minds], if anything. To label me a "Neo-con" just goes to show you how wrong you really are. I'm not giving the Tejas perps any xxxxing pass, whatsoever. I'm just labelling them for the lackeys they really were, and still are, for their REAL BOSSES, the Rockefeller/Morgan trusts.

"This is a fight you picked. I made a collegial argument that a powerful cabal

within the National Security state murdered Kennedy and for that you accused

me of being a lamebrained Langley whore, or words to that effect."

You accused me of being "hostile." That "powerful cabal" within the National Security state you're referring to, happens to have a face. It's the people who run and own Wall Street. The 3 L's you named were merely the Generals of the High Command employed by them, to do THEIR bidding, secure their financial holdings, make sure their investments are being carried out, protected, and policed above and beyond what any foreign country's domestic interests might be concerned with [and inspite of], by way of paying off and installing puppet regimes and dictatorships who'll guarantee to turn over whatever resources that foreign country might possess that may be the target of interest of that "powerful cabal," or "Anglo-American power structure," as I prefer to call it.

"My brother volunteered for 'Nam. My Pop told me never to ask him about it, it wasn't

to be discussed, period. My first cousin didn't come back with all the same parts that

he took over there.

I've lost many who died there, unnecessarily, and FOR NOTHING!!! And, I'm truly, and sincerely sorry from the bottom of my heart, for what happened to your cousin over there [i'm not being snide, when I state this]. I also have a few colleagues of mine who served over there, who'll never be the same for having witnessed and lived through what they had to, in the line of duty. And, I live with one who can never, and will never, talk about it openly, to this day.

So the LAST thing I need from some stuck up New York clown is a xxxxING LECTURE

ABOUT VIETNAM.

I wasn't over there, but I lived it every single day [in LIVING COLOR], and I'm still living with the effects of it, as well as tending to the "casualties of the mind" that came back from it, and happen to cross my path during my workday, in my chosen profession.

"...and for that you accused me of being a lamebrained Langley whore, or words to that effect."

In your perception, I may have accused you of being a Lamebrained Whore [or words to that effect]. But, I distinctly do not recall associating you with Langley. Now, on the otherhand, since you seemed to have brought it up, yourself. Do you harbor any form of misplaced guilt somewhere in the back of your mind? If so, then all I have to say to that is the proverbial, "If the shoe fits..."

I'm done with you."

Ditto. [There I go, again.]

BORN IN THE U.S.A.

Words and music by Bruce Springsteen

Born down in a dead man's town

The first kick I took was when I hit the ground

You end up like a dog that's been beat too much

'Til you spend half your life just covering up

[chorus:]

Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

I got in a little hometown jam

And so they put a rifle in my hands

Sent me off to Vietnam

To go and kill the yellow man

[chorus]

Come back home to the refinery

Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"

I go down to see the V.A. man

He said "Son don't you understand"

[chorus]

I had a buddy at Khe Sahn

Fighting off the Viet Cong

They're still there, he's all gone

He had a little girl in Saigon

I got a picture of him in her arms

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary

Out by the gas fires of the refinery

I'm ten years down the road

Nowhere to run, ain't got nowhere to go

I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Terry Mauro

[Mark Knight]

Obviously Mr. Varnell lived in a VERY different world than I did in 1963. I was a 9 year old kid, a Cub Scout, and I was proud of America and its president and what the nation stood for. One of the first things we did in Mrs. Broglin's 3rd grade class the year before was to learn the names of all the members of President Kennedy's cabinet.

On November 22, 1963, my 4th grade class was enjoying a post-lunch recess when a friend who'd just emerged from a trip to the restroom inside the building came running up, breathless, shouting that President Kennedy had been shot. We all called him a xxxx, but he insisted that when he passed the principal's office, he'd seen Mr. Crowley standing in front of the black-and-white TV there with tears coming down his face.

We returned to class after recess, and a short time later the intercom in the classroom crackled to life.

"May I have your attention, please? The President is dead...I repeat, the President is dead..," Mr Crowley announced, his voice trailing off.

We were dismissed early from classes, just as soon as they could round up the school bus drivers. As our bus drove through town, I saw more Civil Defense vehicles on streetcorners than I'd ever seen in my life. The thought that the country might be under nuclear attack was an overriding concern. I spent that evening and the next 3 days glued to the television, a witness to the history that was being made. The casket being unloaded at Andrews, and LBJ's brief speech there...the crowds filing into the Capitol Rotunda as the President's body lay in state...powerful images, all.

Three days after the President of the United States was gunned down on an American street, watching DeGaulle and Adenauer and the other foreign heads of state walking in the funeral procession, relatively unprotected...that was a strong image...John-John's salute...the lighting of the flame...

Maybe all of this escaped Mr. Varnell's notice. But where I live, the nation spent an entire weekend in shock and sorrow, and the MAXIMUM VISUAL EFFECT was Jackie still wearing that dress, stained with her husband's blood and brains, when she got off the plane at Andrews AFB. Sorry you missed that detail, Mr. Varnell.

Not trying to jump into Terry's fight; I just wanted to demonstrate, Mr. Varnell, that there were some of us nearly the same age as you whose whole world was jarred by the events of November 22, 1963,to an extent much greater than simply pouting after discovering that Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear and Fred Flintstone wouldn't be on TV that afternoon or evening.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Mark Knight

[Dawn Meredith]

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

Terry, how can we coax you out of your shell?

Ashton

So agreed! Poor Terry, just a shy, retiring schoolmarm...

Dawn

[Terry Mauro]

Obviously Mr. Varnell lived in a VERY different world than I did in 1963. I was a 9 year old kid, a Cub Scout, and I was proud of America and its president and what the nation stood for. One of the first things we did in Mrs. Broglin's 3rd grade class the year before was to learn the names of all the members of President Kennedy's cabinet.

On November 22, 1963, my 4th grade class was enjoying a post-lunch recess when a friend who'd just emerged from a trip to the restroom inside the building came running up, breathless, shouting that President Kennedy had been shot. We all called him a xxxx, but he insisted that when he passed the principal's office, he'd seen Mr. Crowley standing in front of the black-and-white TV there with tears coming down his face.

We returned to class after recess, and a short time later the intercom in the classroom crackled to life.

"May I have your attention, please? The President is dead...I repeat, the President is dead..," Mr Crowley announced, his voice trailing off.

We were dismissed early from classes, just as soon as they could round up the school bus drivers. As our bus drove through town, I saw more Civil Defense vehicles on streetcorners than I'd ever seen in my life. The thought that the country might be under nuclear attack was an overriding concern. I spent that evening and the next 3 days glued to the television, a witness to the history that was being made. The casket being unloaded at Andrews, and LBJ's brief speech there...the crowds filing into the Capitol Rotunda as the President's body lay in state...powerful images, all.

Three days after the President of the United States was gunned down on an American street, watching DeGaulle and Adenauer and the other foreign heads of state walking in the funeral procession, relatively unprotected...that was a strong image...John-John's salute...the lighting of the flame...

Maybe all of this escaped Mr. Varnell's notice. But where I live, the nation spent an entire weekend in shock and sorrow, and the MAXIMUM VISUAL EFFECT was Jackie still wearing that dress, stained with her husband's blood and brains, when she got off the plane at Andrews AFB. Sorry you missed that detail, Mr. Varnell.

Not trying to jump into Terry's fight; I just wanted to demonstrate, Mr. Varnell, that there were some of us nearly the same age as you whose whole world was jarred by the events of November 22, 1963,to an extent much greater than simply pouting after discovering that Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear and Fred Flintstone wouldn't be on TV that afternoon or evening.

**********************************************

With all my heart, THANK YOU, Mark.

[Terry Mauro]

Spoken from the standpoint of a true idiot.

Terry, how can we coax you out of your shell?

Ashton

So agreed! Poor Terry, just a shy, retiring schoolmarm...

Dawn

**************************************************

"So agreed! Poor Terry, just a shy, retiring schoolmarm..."

Now Dawnie, Honey let's not confuse the Cliff Varnell's of this world into believing I'm some sort of derelict school teacher out to indoctrinate their children or grandchildren with my "Neo-con" rhetoric of mis/dis-info. I'm a Nuclear Medicine Technologist, as you well know. Where else would I be encountering those "casualties of the mind" I referred to in the course of a workday, in my profession.

We've got to keep the record straight here. Especially, on something I'm so adamantly involved in, and feel so strongly about. Sorry to be so serious about this, but I have to be. I choose to be. But, I still love you regardless, because I know that YOU KNOW exactly what I'm talking about. You were there, too.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Terry Mauro

[Dawn Meredith]

Obviously Mr. Varnell lived in a VERY different world than I did in 1963. I was a 9 year old kid, a Cub Scout, and I was proud of America and its president and what the nation stood for. One of the first things we did in Mrs. Broglin's 3rd grade class the year before was to learn the names of all the members of President Kennedy's cabinet.

On November 22, 1963, my 4th grade class was enjoying a post-lunch recess when a friend who'd just emerged from a trip to the restroom inside the building came running up, breathless, shouting that President Kennedy had been shot. We all called him a xxxx, but he insisted that when he passed the principal's office, he'd seen Mr. Crowley standing in front of the black-and-white TV there with tears coming down his face.

We returned to class after recess, and a short time later the intercom in the classroom crackled to life.

"May I have your attention, please? The President is dead...I repeat, the President is dead..," Mr Crowley announced, his voice trailing off.

We were dismissed early from classes, just as soon as they could round up the school bus drivers. As our bus drove through town, I saw more Civil Defense vehicles on streetcorners than I'd ever seen in my life. The thought that the country might be under nuclear attack was an overriding concern. I spent that evening and the next 3 days glued to the television, a witness to the history that was being made. The casket being unloaded at Andrews, and LBJ's brief speech there...the crowds filing into the Capitol Rotunda as the President's body lay in state...powerful images, all.

Three days after the President of the United States was gunned down on an American street, watching DeGaulle and Adenauer and the other foreign heads of state walking in the funeral procession, relatively unprotected...that was a strong image...John-John's salute...the lighting of the flame...

Maybe all of this escaped Mr. Varnell's notice. But where I live, the nation spent an entire weekend in shock and sorrow, and the MAXIMUM VISUAL EFFECT was Jackie still wearing that dress, stained with her husband's blood and brains, when she got off the plane at Andrews AFB. Sorry you missed that detail, Mr. Varnell.

Not trying to jump into Terry's fight; I just wanted to demonstrate, Mr. Varnell, that there were some of us nearly the same age as you whose whole world was jarred by the events of November 22, 1963,to an extent much greater than simply pouting after discovering that Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear and Fred Flintstone wouldn't be on TV that afternoon or evening.

Mark:

Great post. I was a bit older on that horrible day. Fourteen. Living in Quincy MA. with relatives. Our 8th grade homeroom teacher summoned us to our class with the news that the president had been shot. No details. One memory at school stands out- a few dumb boys joking that "Kennedy croaked". I ran home, praying that there would be positive news. He just COULD NOT die. He was only 43 years old. He had been my hero since I was nine or ten. Even before the election he was covered in my little hometown in Springhill, Nova Scotia. My dad hated Catholics so naturally was no fan of JFK and we had huge fights about this. I think, as kids, we could see the hope he offered this nation and the world. He defined idealism. His wit was remarkable. Compare JFK's press conferences to the current moron in the White House. Actually does W even HAVE press conferences? One of my best friends referred to him (W) the other evening as "almost retarded". I agree completely.

Cliff, I have another good pal here in Austin who is also a member of this forum, Richard Bartholomew, and he was younger than you, but was hit as hard by this event as were Terry, Mark and I. You are in the minority. Most of America was very shaken by this murder; this coup. And we have not ever recovered. Some of us never will.

Unless we somehow achieve justice.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Obviously Mr. Varnell lived in a VERY different world than I did in 1963. I was a 9 year old kid, a Cub Scout, and I was proud of America and its president and what the nation stood for. One of the first things we did in Mrs. Broglin's 3rd grade class the year before was to learn the names of all the members of President Kennedy's cabinet.

On November 22, 1963, my 4th grade class was enjoying a post-lunch recess when a friend who'd just emerged from a trip to the restroom inside the building came running up, breathless, shouting that President Kennedy had been shot. We all called him a xxxx, but he insisted that when he passed the principal's office, he'd seen Mr. Crowley standing in front of the black-and-white TV there with tears coming down his face.

We returned to class after recess, and a short time later the intercom in the classroom crackled to life.

"May I have your attention, please? The President is dead...I repeat, the President is dead..," Mr Crowley announced, his voice trailing off.

We were dismissed early from classes, just as soon as they could round up the school bus drivers. As our bus drove through town, I saw more Civil Defense vehicles on streetcorners than I'd ever seen in my life. The thought that the country might be under nuclear attack was an overriding concern. I spent that evening and the next 3 days glued to the television, a witness to the history that was being made. The casket being unloaded at Andrews, and LBJ's brief speech there...the crowds filing into the Capitol Rotunda as the President's body lay in state...powerful images, all.

Three days after the President of the United States was gunned down on an American street, watching DeGaulle and Adenauer and the other foreign heads of state walking in the funeral procession, relatively unprotected...that was a strong image...John-John's salute...the lighting of the flame...

Maybe all of this escaped Mr. Varnell's notice. But where I live, the nation spent an entire weekend in shock and sorrow, and the MAXIMUM VISUAL EFFECT was Jackie still wearing that dress, stained with her husband's blood and brains, when she got off the plane at Andrews AFB. Sorry you missed that detail, Mr. Varnell.

Not trying to jump into Terry's fight; I just wanted to demonstrate, Mr. Varnell, that there were some of us nearly the same age as you whose whole world was jarred by the events of November 22, 1963,to an extent much greater than simply pouting after discovering that Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear and Fred Flintstone wouldn't be on TV that afternoon or evening.

Mark:

Great post. I was a bit older on that horrible day. Fourteen. Living in Quincy MA. with relatives. Our 8th grade homeroom teacher summoned us to our class with the news that the president had been shot. No details. One memory at school stands out- a few dumb boys joking that "Kennedy croaked". I ran home, praying that there would be positive news. He just COULD NOT die. He was only 43 years old. He had been my hero since I was nine or ten. Even before the election he was covered in my little hometown in Springhill, Nova Scotia. My dad hated Catholics so naturally was no fan of JFK and we had huge fights about this. I think, as kids, we could see the hope he offered this nation and the world. He defined idealism. His wit was remarkable. Compare JFK's press conferences to the current moron in the White House. Actually does W even HAVE press conferences? One of my best friends referred to him (W) the other evening as "almost retarded". I agree completely.

Cliff, I have another good pal here in Austin who is also a member of this forum, Richard Bartholomew, and he was younger than you, but was hit as hard by this event as were Terry, Mark and I. You are in the minority. Most of America was very shaken by this murder; this coup. And we have not ever recovered. Some of us never will.

Unless we somehow achieve justice.

Dawn

[Cliff Varnell]

Obviously Mr. Varnell lived in a VERY different world than I did in 1963.

Obviously, Mr. Knight didn't read what I wrote.

I spoke of the events of the weekend -- Saturday and Sunday -- as regards to the

VISUAL impact of the assassination.

Terry claimed that the reason JFK was murdered in the manner he was because

it was a psy-op designed for maximum visual effect.

I say it was a murder designed to indict Castro and provide a rationale

for the invasion of Cuba.

Several members of this forum have done break-through research on

this subject -- Larry Hancock and Rex Bradford. Gerald McKnight's

must-read work on the WC cover-up BREACH OF TRUST also leads in

this direction, as McKnight himself speculates.

I hope this clarifies the context of the discussion.

But please, continue...

I was a 9 year old kid, a Cub Scout, and I was proud of America and its president and what the nation stood for. One of the first things we did in Mrs. Broglin's 3rd grade class the year before was to learn the names of all the members of President Kennedy's cabinet.

On November 22, 1963, my 4th grade class was enjoying a post-lunch recess when a friend who'd just emerged from a trip to the restroom inside the building came running up, breathless, shouting that President Kennedy had been shot. We all called him a xxxx, but he insisted that when he passed the principal's office, he'd seen Mr. Crowley standing in front of the black-and-white TV there with tears coming down his face.

We returned to class after recess, and a short time later the intercom in the classroom crackled to life.

"May I have your attention, please? The President is dead...I repeat, the President is dead..," Mr Crowley announced, his voice trailing off.

We were dismissed early from classes, just as soon as they could round up the school bus drivers. As our bus drove through town, I saw more Civil Defense vehicles on streetcorners than I'd ever seen in my life. The thought that the country might be under nuclear attack was an overriding concern. I spent that evening and the next 3 days glued to the television, a witness to the history that was being made. The casket being unloaded at Andrews, and LBJ's brief speech there...the crowds filing into the Capitol Rotunda as the President's body lay in state...powerful images, all.

And how would those images have differed if Kennedy had died in his sleep?

Please, Mr. Knight, perhaps you can explain why these powerful images

would have been any less powerful if Kennedy had died of apparent "natural

causes."

Would our grief have been less?

Would the shock to the nation been less?

No. He had his brains blown out in a public square in a obviously

conspiratorial manner because the plotters had more to their agenda

than merely ending JFK's life, or so I'll argue.

Three days after the President of the United States was gunned down on an American street, watching DeGaulle and Adenauer and the other foreign heads of state walking in the funeral procession, relatively unprotected...that was a strong image...John-John's salute...the lighting of the flame...

And how did the manner of his death affect the above?

Maybe all of this escaped Mr. Varnell's notice.

It has obviously escaped Mr. Knight's notice that the two days he is discussing

are the Friday JFK was shot and the Monday he was buried -- and I specifically

was refering to the weekend, which is, in The City where I live, on Saturday and

Sunday.

Maybe they do it differently where Mr. Knight lives.

But where I live, the nation spent an entire weekend in shock and sorrow, and the MAXIMUM VISUAL EFFECT was Jackie still wearing that dress, stained with her husband's blood and brains, when she got off the plane at Andrews AFB. Sorry you missed that detail, Mr. Varnell.

Are you claiming that that image was shown over and over and over on TV?

No. That's not how they did it in those days. Maybe you are attributing the

modern 24-hour news practice of showing the same images over and over

to the events of Eleven Twenty Two.

[

Not trying to jump into Terry's fight; I just wanted to demonstrate, Mr. Varnell, that there were some of us nearly the same age as you whose whole world was jarred by the events of November 22, 1963,to an extent much greater than simply pouting after discovering that Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear and Fred Flintstone wouldn't be on TV that afternoon or evening.

Except I wasn't talking about that afternoon or evening.

And if you think the major networks broadcast gruesome images

of Jackie's dress over and over for MAXIMUM EFFECT you've

mis-remembered.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Cliff Varnell

[Dawn Meredith]

No. He had his brains blown out in a public square in a obviously

conspiratorial manner because the plotters had more to their agenda

than merely ending JFK's life, or so I'll argue.

I agree. I think Vince Salandria summed it up best to Gaeton Fonzi. If you have Fonzi's book, The Last Investigation, Salandria's words are on page 29. In part:

" The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear: 'We are in control and no one-not the President, not Congress, nor any elected official-no one can do anything about it' ".

Sadly, those words are as true today as they were that winter of 1975 when Vince Salandria spoke them to Fonzi.

This was not merely the murder of one man who happened to be president; this was the murder of all that he stood for, tried to do, would have done. Imagine, if there had been no Viet Nam? Just that one issue alone. All the dead, walking wounded, lives destroyed. For dope and greed. The sort of things war is always about.

I am deeply ashamed of this country and fear the path the Neo-Cons have taken it in.

Dawn

[Cliff Varnell]

Terry,

I think you could make a stronger argument that it was a psy-op

designed for MINIMUM visual effect.

By pre-empting all regular programming that weekend (Saturday

and Sunday) it left people to stew in their grief with less to take

their minds off it.

I think Mr. Knight's recollections are telling because he doesn't

include any memories of Saturday and Sunday.