Mockingbird; alive and well

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

Tosh, no surprise to me.

I email Coral and Chardy , who follow thw Posada case, for months about Posada, Bosch and the JFK assassination. I guess their hands are tight. They never respond and refuse to report on it. Except once:

Original Message -----

From: Wim Dankbaar

To: achardy@herald.com ; ocorral@herald.com

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:01 PM

Subject: Posada responds

Gentlemen,

Since you are already working in a tandem, you could well be the new Woodward and Bernstein.

Thank you for reporting this :

Although he wouldn't answer questions about allegations he participated in several terrorist acts, he readily rejected rumors that he was in Dallas on the day John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963.

''Let me answer that,'' he told his attorney. ''I was pumping gas dressed as a lieutenant of the American Army in Fort Benning [Georgia] when that happened,'' he said. ``How was I going to be in Dallas? What's going on is that they blame me for everything.''

What a dissapointment! I had expected: "Sure I was in Dallas, I can confirm that, I was in Dealey Plaza!" But wait, that would spoil the nice treatment, as well the asylum.

Next time, you may want to ask him if he can produce a witness for his "alibi"? And it better not be his buddy Felix Rodriguez! Let's see, we have Frank Sturgis and Orlando Bosch watching TV in their Miami homes, with no witnesses, we have Johnny Roselli sound asleep in his Vegas apartment untill he was woken up to hear the news, with the FBI losing surveillance of him (apparently they forgot to check his home), and now we have Bambi pumping gas at Fort Benning? I don't blame him. After all , we have Giancana, Nicoletti, Demohrenschildt and others dead just before they were scheduled to testify. But maybe Luis remembers some of his customers at the pump that day? At least they are better stories than the changing ones of Howard Hunt and George Bush

You could also ask him if he knew Chauncey Marvin Holt. As you may know, he is the source for the "rumors".

Thanks in advance for being more alert,

Sincerely with greetings from Holland,

Wim Dankbaar

*******************

It's also rumored that columnist Jim Defede was laid off for being too honest, for example with this cartoon:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/Posada-Osama.JPG

http://journalistsfordefede.blogspot.com/

Edited October 4, 2006 by Wim Dankbaar

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

I 'll have some family business to attend to today. My son's birthday. So I will respond to Mr. Valenti in the Chauncey Holt thread tommorow. Actually I'm enjoying that discussion very much.

But meanwhile I would like to have Valenti's take on Tosh's story, if he has one. Could you respond to that, Mark?

I will also give you folks something, that I didn't aquire without cost: Lois Gibson's slide presentation on the three tramps. Completely free of charge , as is all the information on my website, the name of which I did not invent, but inherited. Still, I am of the opinion that it is appropriate to a high extent.

Wim

Edited October 4, 2006 by Wim Dankbaar

[Guest Mark Valenti]

But meanwhile I would like to have Valenti's take on Tosh's story, if he has one. Could you respond to that, Mark?

Wim

I haven't put in sufficient research time on that subject to speak with any competence. A cursory glance indicates that he was arrested for passing bad checks almost fifty years ago and within 48 hours he was confessing to Special Agents that he flew munitions to Cuba. I thought that was kind of interesting and revelatory.

There's also something from 1976 about Tosh making repeated phone calls to the Phoenix FBI office, asking to find out why they were trying to contact him. According to the report, they told him nobody was trying to contact him. Again, semi-interesting.

Tosh called them back seven or eight times, according to the record, telling them he had information, that he had tried to contact Senator Barry Goldwater, but his office had suggested he call the FBI.

He said he had spoken to the ATF (hey Wim, there's that ATF again) but they didn't believe him. He told the FBI he had received a threatening phone call but couldn’t say anything about its origin or the ID of the caller.

In a report, the FBI noted he “has a tendency to embellish his stories” though he does possess some knowledge of items that are interesting to the US.

The FBI agent apparently told him to put his thoughts down on paper in a coherent, logical way to better faciliate some kind of action. But there didn't seem to be any response at that point.

So I don't know what the real story may be. Tosh seems to be a decent guy who has seen a lot in his years. I get the impression from a surface glance that many people don't believe him, but that doesn't seem to faze him a bit.

Once again, it comes down to anecdotal evidence with a splash of official paperwork that may or may not support the thesis. We have seen this with Roscoe White, Judyth Baker and many others.

I'm not saying it's *not* true, I'm just pointing out that a plus b doesn't necessarily equal c. I think it's important to remember that. These theories pop up occasionally and are accepted as gospel by some. Some of them may BE gospel, we may actually have the real truth staring us in the face. But if it can't be proven in a court of law, it's only theory.

What is needed is hard, verifiable evidence that can irrefutably push the truth in one direction or the other. What has been collected thus far are intriguing possibilities.

MV

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Guest Mark Valenti]

The tricky thing about responding to this type of message is that there are living, breathing people who can still be affected by what's written. So if anything I wrote hit you the wrong way, it wasn't my intention. But as I mentioned to Dankbaar, after he asked me for my opnion about you, I'm not well-versed in the details. I only performed a cursory glance at some documents, which I described. My original post to Dankbaar was specifically targeted at his claim that Dallas cops believed they were talking to ATF agents, not tramps.

He changed the subject and invited me to comment on your story.

It would be great if Mr. Dankbaar could offer something to back up his ATF/tramp statement besides misdirection.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Mark Valenti

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Mark; I understand and I am not pissed. I think that one should take in all available information before a negative slant is put upon documentation and partial documentation at that.., and too, from the FBI of 1959-97. I think you are a much better researcher than that. For "sloppy research" to stand as facts as to the truefulness of an event or slant same because of some unfonded belief is not IMO the way to find the truth behind the events that led to the JFK assassination. To kill the mesenger before he can deliver the mesage is also not the way to truth. That is why Mockingbired was created many years ago. That is why JFK's secret committee was formed (the truth and INTEL was not getting to him)

Its no big deal with me so we will just move along and put this puppy to bed. Thanks for your interest. Tosh

I appreciate that very much. Lesson learned, it's important not to participate in a debate - to any degree - for which one is unprepared.

MV

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

Tosh and all, lets take a closer look at a few of Mark's comments:

In a report, the FBI noted he “has a tendency to embellish his stories” though he does possess some knowledge of items that are interesting to the US.'

Since Mark noticed and emphasized this: Does Tosh have any clue as to why the FBI would say this? Do you have a tendency to embellish your stories, Tosh?

The FBI agent apparently told him to put his thoughts down on paper in a coherent, logical way to better faciliate some kind of action. But there didn't seem to be any response at that point.

Is this true, Tosh? If so why did you not respond?

So I don't know what the real story may be. Tosh seems to be a decent guy who has seen a lot in his years. I get the impression from a surface glance that many people don't believe him, but that doesn't seem to faze him a bit.

Ah, so Mark gets the impression that many people don't believe Tosh! Based on what? Could those who do not believe Tosh here, step forward and identify themselves? Because I want to know if Mark's impression is correct!

Once again, it comes down to anecdotal evidence with a splash of official paperwork that may or may not support the thesis. We have seen this with Roscoe White, Judyth Baker and many others.

What have we seen exactly with Roscoe White, Judyth Baker and many others? That they are not believable, like Tosh, or what?

I'm not saying it's *not* true,

But Mark is certainly not saying it is true either, right?

I'm just pointing out that a plus b doesn't necessarily equal c. I think it's important to remember that. These theories pop up occasionally and are accepted as gospel by some. Some of them may BE gospel, we may actually have the real truth staring us in the face. But if it can't be proven in a court of law, it's only theory.

Man, this retoric reminds of Gary Mack: Everything is possible, but also "inconclusive". The evidence we have from official sources, like the FBI and Warren Commisssion, is "as close as we can get".

[Wim Dankbaar]

Operation Mockingbird alive and well:

http://www.tvnewslies.org/assets/images/4-...er-Cells202.jpg

Edited October 5, 2006 by Wim Dankbaar

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Wim Dankbaar]

Now Wim; I have four important question for you. They are not to challenge you

( (1) The military service number of a person we both know, was assigned to a army cpl who was killed in Sipan in 1944. I have asked you and others, if this can be explained to me. That was over two years ago that this question was asked. I first asked the question to Joe West in 1993-4 what this persons S/N was RA or US?. I did not receive a respond, or a different service number then. Sometime later I received a service number, but I was told that I had copied the wrong number (years later another number was given to me) I checked it out and I sent your other friend copies from the VA confirming the S/N that belonged to the dead army cpl; but this was not given to you at the time by your new friend.

Some people do not want me to discuss Files, but since you asked:

Tosh, first of all, I never care about being challenged, and will always answer questions within boundaries of what I am permitted to say. On the other hand I think you get very riled up when you are challenged. Do you feel challenged by me now? You are mistaken, I believe you are telling the truth about your whereabouts that day, as you know it.

You must be mixing up things in your memory. Joe West died on february 13, 1993, he was in the hospital the days before. I don't think you had contact with him in 1993. Moreover, as far as I know, Joe never covered the question about Files' military service or his serial number. Therefore it is simply impossible that you raised the question about Files' service number with Joe in 1993/94. In fact, that service number was found in the records in 1995 by John Grady 2 years after Joe died. Joe West knew nothing about an army serial number. It's not discussed in their correspondence either, which I all have and are published in the book. Remember, James Files had not even told him that he was the shooter on the knoll. That came all later. Just like his military past. Tell me Tosh, why would he have invented that, if he knew he couldn't prove it? Is it not logical that a guy like him that age went into the army? And it adds nothing to his confession. He could have said he was just a protege under Nicolleti and that was it. Why go through the risk and trouble to say he was in Laos? Is he still managing to deceive his best friend for 35 years on that part? Use your brain and common sense, Tosh. Upon being asked where they will dicredit him, here he is saying that his military background is where they will try to discredit his story. It appears he is right again:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/jimmyb.wmv

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/jimmya.wmv

I asked you over a year ago to check the number with your friend before you completed your book. I have not herd from you on this matter. The number you gave me (that this person told you was his number) is that the right number? This is not to challenge you. I want to know if that is your friends service number that he had while in Laos in the sixties. I think you are a honest man and a good researcher. This is not to put you on the spot.

As far as I know that is the number, including the "inactive"claim file number, that Files says were his. It is impossible to me recheck that number, but I would welcome others to try. I think I gave you that same response. First of all James Files said his records are purged by the agency, this was what Joe Grady found initially. He got his information through a regional office of the Veterans administation, not headquarters. Then after 18 months he went back and this office said there was 'no information available" on this name and serial number. So I highly doubt that any effort, which is difficult for me as a foreigner an non-veteran, would pruduce any result, and if it would there is no assurance that record has not been forged meanwhile. These are the reasons why I did not try to check.

So it was and remains a surprise to me that you claim to have found another entry for that serial number, an army col who was killed in Spain in 1944. I asked you to prove it to me and I don't think I ever got an answer let alone the documented record.

It is one simple question in that respect. Would you give that number on open forum for researchers to check for themselves as to it being your friends Service Number?

I have done that numerous times, also on Lancer, on my own forum, and I believe also here. You seem to suggest I have some sinister reason to hold that back:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/armyserial.JPG

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/armyhistory.JPG

There are much more documents on my forum under the thread "interesting documents"

(2) The operative name I gave to Joe West, Oliver Stone, and that other friend of yours, was a phoney name. How did you friend get that name to pass back to me saying he knew me? You bought that can of worms in good faith and I told you about that years ago. Would you explain this on open forum. Again this is not to challenge you.

Again, Joe West was dead at the time Oliver Stone and Vernon came into the picture.

All I know is this: "Files also correctly identified Plumlee by his CIA codename, William R. Pearson. "

and this:

"Did the CIA pilot ever admit that his name was Pearson?"

Yes, Jimmy. I knew that his name was Pearson when you identified him. He had already told me that his name was Pearson. That's when I first knew you were telling us the truth about picking up Roselli.

What phoney name name did you give Bob Vernon and/or Stone? Are you saying it wasn't Pearson or are you saying Pearson was a phoney name? I am confused now, the latter cannot be, because this is part of your declaration:

I have a secret classified file as defined within the National Security statutes under the name of William Robert (Tosh) Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code named "Zapata", Miami Cuba Desk, 1960-63 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D) classified information; portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms briefings. I was a contract operative for the CIA, associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvey, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others.

(3) The young shooter who got himself in trouble in Mexico, was "Billy Joe Keesie" from El Paso Texas who stold a bunch of parachutes from Fort Bliss and shot a politician in Mexico. It seems this has transformed into your friends story which came from Joe West to your other friend and then to you after you bought the can of worms. I have went over and over on this through the years with all concerned. Would you explain to me on open forum who first told you that story? It did not come from me, but I was used to confirm it. My statement was "a young shooter who got himself in trouble in Mexico". It came back to me from Joe West and your other friend that what I had said was confirmed by your friend, that remains in lockup, that he was the young shooter I was talking about.

Well, it is entirely possible that there is some kind of mix-up here. All I know is that Files got himself in trouble in Mexico much later than 1963, (1976 I believe) and a group of men, headed by Sturgis came to rescue him. So it is possible that Files thought that you meant him rather than the guy you say.

J: He come down there and we were doing things that were getting ready for me (click on phone) to go to Mexico on a deal, and this is the part we talked about where Frank Sturgis had to come and get me out down there.

P: Um-hum

J: He bailed me out in Mexico and I said it wasn’t jail

Vernon's statement was this one:

Several known CIA operatives and CIA contract pilot Robert "Tosh" Plumlee recall a "young hitter from Chicago, who got into trouble down in Mexico and had to be bailed out by Frank Sturgis of the CIA.

Is that incorrect? Did Frank Sturgis not feature in your story?

(4) The airport meeting in Chicago, when I flew Nicolette to Santa Barbra CA was said that your friend drove him to the airport and he remembered me. I remembered a young person about my age being the driver but I told everyone concerned that I could not ID this person, only confirmed that Nickolettle was flown from this airport.

Maybe that is true, however you can't blame anyone for misinterpreting you.

look at this:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/tosh1.wmv

So you do recall destination was Santa Barbara? Not the date I guess. Files does.

It seems if I "play ball" with some, then I am a good guy. However, if I do not "play ball", then nothing I say is truthful. I am tired of the bullxxxx games. Cut to the chase. If I am to go on "Point" alone then I am going to "Flame IN" wrapped in the banner of truth regardless of how ugly it may be. I lived it. Others make money off it. The FBI years ago covered their ass and left a lot of good people out to fend for themselvs.

Well Tosh, I am certainly not one of those you describe. I have noted and pointed out to you that you have gone back on forth on your opinion about Files. So far only privately. I think that is unfortunate, but in the end it does not really matter what you think of Files. You didn't see who took that shot from the knoll, nor does Files say he saw you. You can have doubts about each other, and still both be telling the truth. That's why I would concentrate on your own story from now on and not be bothered by me saying that you corroborate each other (on Roselli for example), because that's a fact, even if you don't believe each other.

Researchers use the FBI's paperwork when it confirms their projects. However, when the papperwork goes againest their project then the FBI is wrong and working for the CIA. I do not know who the xxxx I work for and do not care. I have just tried to point the way in good faith. My little way of trying to help. Boy what a mistake.

You have said this many time before, you have also said many times to leave the scene for good. Know that I don't ask you to leave and I commend you for telling what you know.

Tosh, you must have learned by now that a very thick skin, time, redundant patience and self control are requirements for this endeavour, as well as the acceptance that you can lead your horses to the water, but not force all of them to drink, even some of those starving of thirst. Believe you me, I know what it is.

There are also kids who don't like icecream. I do !

Wim

Edited October 7, 2006 by Wim Dankbaar