FBI FOIA Documentation during the 60's and 70's

[William Plumlee]

Posted on another thread in answer to questions asked of me by a forum member:

After reading this forum and some of the research done there in, I think we all "embellish" to some degree. However, in the FBI case, I was ask to tell them background on my"alledged" connections which I did.

(1) I crash a plane on the Opa Loca Bombing range in 1957. (now documented)

(2) I was lost in Cuba in 1958. (now documented)

(3) I was flying guns from Arizona to Florida. 1963 (now documented)

(4) I was associated with known Mafia figures 1958-64 (now documented)

(5) I was associated with John Martino and John Rosellie in 1959 and 1961 (now documented)

(7) I saw a person thrown out of a C-46 between Florida and Cuba

(8) I remember when the Raider ship (Rex) came on the scean and was berth not far from the Kennedy Compond at West Palm Beach. 1962 (now documented, by FBI)

(9) I was at the Fountainblu when it was opened and I used to hang out at the Rondy Plaza, Green Manisons, and "Sloopy Joes" before the Fountainblu. (now documented

(10) I put money in a bus locker in West Palm Beach for John Roseli and the FBI/CIA picked it up and gave it back to Roselli. (now documented)

Yes, I guess I do "embellish" my stories, as viewed by the FBI in 1958, 1963, and 1978. Because the documentation did not appear to support these matters told to the FBI in 1959 and so on untill the documents were declassified in 1981,... in reference to 1959 and 1963 documentation.

The FBI agent apparently told him to put his thoughts down on paper in a coherent, logical way to better faciliate some kind of action. But there didn't seem to be any response at that point.

Is this true, Tosh? If so why did you not respond?

I did respond, twice in written sworn affidavet, 61 pages which remain classified today and was not declassified with the other FBI FOIA documents of 1981 (released to Barnard Finesterwald Jr and Gary Shaw in 1981)

So I don't know what the real story may be. Tosh seems to be a decent guy who has seen a lot in his years. I get the impression from a surface glance that many people don't believe him, but that doesn't seem to faze him a bit.

Ah, so Mark gets the impression that many people don't believe Tosh! Based on what? Could those who do not believe Tosh here, step forward and identify themselves? Because I want to know if Mark's impression is correct!

Many people have not looked into the documents which have been released and they have only accepted what has been told by the FBI and others who have preconcieved conclutions. To accept my story would conflict with the established record and their research and books and compromise classified information.

Once again, it comes down to anecdotal evidence with a splash of official paperwork that may or may not support the thesis. We have seen this with Roscoe White, Judyth Baker and many others.

What have we seen exactly with Roscoe White, Judyth Baker and many others? That they are not believable, like Tosh, or what?

The same MO to shield information which might prove damaging to some government operations.

I'm not saying it's *not* true,

But Mark is certainly not saying it is true either, right?

I'm just pointing out that a plus b doesn't necessarily equal c. I think it's important to remember that. These theories pop up occasionally and are accepted as gospel by some. Some of them may BE gospel, we may actually have the real truth staring us in the face. But if it can't be proven in a court of law, it's only theory.

Man, this retoric reminds of Gary Mack: Everything is possible, but also "inconclusive". The evidence we have from official sources, like the FBI and Warren Commisssion, is "as close as we can get".

It seems I am always answering questions on these forums, which I always try to answer the best I can. Sometimes I miss a few. I try not to speculate. But when I ask questions they are never addressed. It seems to be one side.

Now Wim; I have four important question for you. They are not to challenge you

( (1) The military service number of a person we both know, was assigned to a army cpl who was killed in Sipan in 1944. I have asked you and others, if this can be explained to me. That was over two years ago that this question was asked. I first asked the question to Joe West in 1993-4 what this persons S/N was RA or US?. I did not receive a respond, or a different service number then. Sometime later I received a service number, but I was told that I had copied the wrong number (years later another number was given to me) I checked it out and I sent your other friend copies from the VA confirming the S/N that belonged to the dead army cpl; but this was not given to you at the time by your new friend.

I asked you over a year ago to check the number with your friend before you completed your book. I have not herd from you on this matter. The number you gave me (that this person told you was his number) is that the right number? This is not to challenge you. I want to know if that is your friends service number that he had while in Laos in the sixties. I think you are a honest man and a good researcher. This is not to put you on the spot.

It is one simple question in that respect. Would you give that number on open forum for researchers to check for themselves as to it being your friends Service Number?

(2) The operative name I gave to Joe West, Oliver Stone, and that other friend of yours, was a phoney name. How did you friend get that name to pass back to me saying he knew me? You bought that can of worms in good faith and I told you about that years ago. Would you explain this on open forum. Again this is not to challenge you.

(3) The young shooter who got himself in trouble in Mexico, was "Billy Joe Keesie" from El Paso Texas who stold a bunch of parachutes from Fort Bliss and shot a politician in Mexico. It seems this has transformed into your friends story which came from Joe West to your other friend and then to you after you bought the can of worms. I have went over and over on this through the years with all concerned. Would you explain to me on open forum who first told you that story? It did not come from me, but I was used to confirm it. My statement was "a young shooter who got himself in trouble in Mexico". It came back to me from Joe West and your other friend that what I had said was confirmed by your friend, that remains in lockup, that he was the young shooter I was talking about.

(4) The airport meeting in Chicago, when I flew Nicolette to Santa Barbra CA was said that your friend drove him to the airport and he remembered me. I remembered a young person about my age being the driver but I told everyone concerned that I could not ID this person, only confirmed that Nickolettle was flown from this airport.

It seems if I "play ball" with some, then I am a good guy. However, if I do not "play ball", then nothing I say is truthful. I am tired of the bullxxxx games. Cut to the chase. If I am to go on "Point" alone then I am going to "Flame IN" wrapped in the banner of truth regardless of how ugly it may be. I lived it. Others make money off it. The FBI years ago covered their ass and left a lot of good people out to fend for themselvs.

Researchers use the FBI's paperwork when it confirms their projects. However, when the papperwork goes againest their project then the FBI is wrong and working for the CIA. I do not know who the xxxx I work for and do not care. I have just tried to point the way in good faith. My little way of trying to help. Boy what a mistake.

And Now I go on a long long long vacation. See You'all in the Spring... If the Hogs don't eat me first.., and the creek don't rise...... And the good Lord willing. You'all write whens yous get work... Tosh

[Shanet Clark]

This is pertinent and substantive primary documentation from an associated member of our FORUM;

/quote

Tosh said:

After reading this forum and some of the research done there in, I think we all "embellish" to some degree. However, in the FBI case, I was ask to tell them background on my"alledged" connections which I did.

(1) I crash a plane on the Opa Loca Bombing range in 1957. (now documented)

(2) I was lost in Cuba in 1958. (now documented)

(3) I was flying guns from Arizona to Florida. 1963 (now documented)

(4) I was associated with known Mafia figures 1958-64 (now documented)

(5) I was associated with John Martino and John Rosellie in 1959 and 1961 (now documented)

(7) I saw a person thrown out of a C-46 between Florida and Cuba

(8) I remember when the Raider ship (Rex) came on the scean and was berth not far from the Kennedy Compond at West Palm Beach. 1962 (now documented, by FBI)

(9) I was at the Fountainblu when it was opened and I used to hang out at the Rondy Plaza, Green Manisons, and "Sloopy Joes" before the Fountainblu. (now documented

(10) I put money in a bus locker in West Palm Beach for John Roseli and the FBI/CIA picked it up and gave it back to Roselli. (now documented)

unquote

South shooter and the triple underpass, my friends, from some one other than the CIA proper...........

Edited October 6, 2006 by Shanet Clark

[Thomas Graves]

This is pertinent and substantive primary documentation from an associated member of our FORUM;

/quote

Tosh said:

After reading this forum and some of the research done there in, I think we all "embellish" to some degree. However, in the FBI case, I was ask to tell them background on my"alledged" connections which I did.

(1) I crash a plane on the Opa Loca Bombing range in 1957. (now documented)

(2) I was lost in Cuba in 1958. (now documented)

(3) I was flying guns from Arizona to Florida. 1963 (now documented)

(4) I was associated with known Mafia figures 1958-64 (now documented)

(5) I was associated with John Martino and John Rosellie in 1959 and 1961 (now documented)

(7) I saw a person thrown out of a C-46 between Florida and Cuba

(8) I remember when the Raider ship (Rex) came on the scean and was berth not far from the Kennedy Compond at West Palm Beach. 1962 (now documented, by FBI)

(9) I was at the Fountainblu when it was opened and I used to hang out at the Rondy Plaza, Green Manisons, and "Sloopy Joes" before the Fountainblu. (now documented

(10) I put money in a bus locker in West Palm Beach for John Roseli and the FBI/CIA picked it up and gave it back to Roselli. (now documented)

unquote

__________________________________________________

Shanet,

FWIW, I agree. IMO, Tosh seems very credible....... (Sorry, Gerry.)

--Thomas

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Edited October 7, 2006 by Thomas Graves