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Conspiracy Theorists v Lone Nutters

John Simkin

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Has any of the Garrison specialists heard of this guy?

Has anyone seen his 3 hour TV interview or the documentary?



Filmmaker John Barbour denies JFK conspiracy theories only facts

"Oswald involved with CIA & CIA killed Kennedy"



At 88 years old, John Barbouris a man made for the hills of Hollywood. His golden-brownskin, shiny jewelry and blue-and-brown pinstripe suit allude to his early pursuits in gambling, acting and stand-up comedy.

But the passion in his raspy and convincing voice reveals the second half of Barbour's life, the half consumed by conspiracy theories that have baffled America for almost 50 years.

Wednesday, Union Board presented Barbour's 1992 documentary "The JFKAssassination: The Garrison Tapes," followed by a question-and-answer session with Barbour.

The film features Barbour's exclusive interviews with late New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, who was ridiculed for his investigation into the CIA's involvement in theassassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The questions surrounding who shot Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963, are infinite, and Kennedy-themed literature has lined book shelves for decades. But Barbour dismissed these accounts; in his opinion, there is no such thing as conspiracy theories, only an abundance of facts.

And he said the facts that convinced him came from Garrison's book: Lee Harvey Oswald was involved with members of the CIA, and the CIA killed Kennedy.

In 1970, Gallop polls indicated that more than 80 percent of the public believed Oswald didn't act alone, if at all. But only 22 percent thought there should be another investigation, Barbour said.

"How do you say your mother's not a virgin? It just sounds ugly," Barbour said. "How do you say your leaders are murderers? It just sounds ugly. When it's obvious, it sounds ugly."

Garrison published "Heritage of Stone," a book that spelled out what he found during his investigation into the CIA. In 1979, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that four shots had been fired at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, vindicating the potential for conspiracy theories.

In 1980, Barbour invited Garrison to come on his hit NBC show "Real People," Garrison was on film for three hours, and Barbour said it was "… the most frightening, exhilarating, terrifying three hours I have ever spent in my entire life."

When Barbour tried to make a documentary, critics ran amuck, and he lost "RealPeople" in the early 1980s.

Finally, in 1992, Barbour released the documentary. It won the 1993 San Sebastian Film Festival award the same day Garrison died.

Since then, Barbour has traveled the globe, answering questions about the documentary at film screenings. However, his documentary has never aired on public television in the United States.

But Barbour said he is less concerned by money and more motivated by educating people about what he thinks truly happened in 1963.

Barbour talked about the injustice of the 24-hours news coverage of recent murder cases, involving Casey Anthony, O.J. Simpson, Laci Peterson and Natalee Holloway.

"Those murders were tragic," he said. "But they only affected one person. The murder of John Kennedy changed the economy, changed our foreign policy, changed our political structure....I guarantee you, if we had cell phones or the Internet on Nov. 22, 1963, there would be atleast a dozen prominent Americans hung or shot for the murder of John Kennedy."

Edited by William Kelly
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Guest Dale Thorn

Statements to the effect that LBJ was more of an observer than an active plotter don't square with the evidence. LBJ hopped into his role like the Easter bunny, destroying evidence, squashing investigations, and having people silenced just like old times in Texas. Statements that Hoover got involved "because he was going to be retired" by Kennedy seem rather dubious as well. As bad as Hoover was, I don't see him willing to murder the president just because he would be involuntarily retired. There had to be a larger reason, and I doubt that the meeting at Murchison's consisted mainly of disparate individuals sharpening their respective knives. I think a larger story had to be presented that painted Kennedy not just as a threat to a few careers or even a few financial matters. Kennedy had to be represented as a mortal danger to the U.S. (or the U.S. economy as a whole), if not to the whole world, in order to draw these men and their large organizations into a dramatic (though disclaimed) coup. If it were just the individual issues and some crankiness about corporate and military profits, they would have killed Kennedy the old fashioned way and not had to do such a massive cleanup afterward.

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Guest Dale Thorn

The Secret Service clearly had a stand-down. Given the total absence of a response to the shots to Kennedy, that much is obvious. I can't agree that the late night drinking would make the Secret Service completely non-responsive. The driver even turned around twice to look, and the passenger agent once. Just unbelievable. That Johnson coming into office would be unaware of the coup given the massive drama - doesn't make sense. Being aware of the coup and not an active signatory? Doesn't make sense, especially when we see the followup. The car is cleansed. The body is whisked out of Dallas. Jackie is evicted from the White House within a couple of days. Moyers suggests the coverup in a memo to Katzenbach. Of course LBJ didn't *want* the WC - after all, look at all the evidence they dumped on us with those 26 volumes. The 9/11 commission didn't make that gargantuan error. Johnson being the murdering SOB he was well known to be in Texas was perfect for the coverup and the subsequent war.

If LBJ were truly afraid of the CIA he could have used his TV time to indict those guys and have them rounded up immediately. The joint chiefs? They're nowhere without an army behind them. Armies take time to mobilize. Johnson could have called out the national guard and declared martial law, and rounded up the likely suspects. But Johnson's demeanor over those few days was not suggestive of a man who fell into a coup vaguely aware. His demeanor was very positive and aggressive. If you put me in his position and had people talking to me about my fears, my anxieties etc. relating to the assassination and aftermath, I could play dumb and coy and all that. Sincerity is the key to good acting. Once you can fake that the rest is easy.

We had nothing like the Kennedy assassination before or since. It was a major drama. Like a mafia killing, meant to send a clear message. Like a military killing, done by snipers. I'm trying to imagine Johnson wanting a Texas investigation into Kennedy's murder that would not uncover enough dirt on Johnson himself to bury him. Nah.

And perhaps the late-night meeting was embellished. But I can't imagine a better place for the key players in the assassination and coverup to be when a coup is about to take place. If the military and their bosses wanted to allow the coup to go public, then the meeting could be more casual and/or have fewer players. But when the intent is to cover it up, you need better control. My feeling is that this assassination has been trivialized to some degree as a quest for more war, more money, less Kennedy - as though Kennedy were some kind of pest. I don't think so. Kennedy got the drama treatment because the killers wanted everyone (everyone who's smart) to know that Kennedy double-crossed the wrong people on something big, and they had to set an example. All those other benefits to killing Kennedy could be considered to be spoils of war - the war on John Kennedy that is.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that no president was elected from the majority population center of the U.S. for 48 years, or that the big three (John, Bobby, Martin) were killed in the same areas where all those new presidents came from. Call it Civil War #2, and this time the South won - big.

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Guest Dale Thorn

LBJ was certainly not at or near the top, in my opinion. But being the president, he had all the legal authority in the world after swearing in, so naturally he would be the man at the core of the coverup after the assassination, as far as deflecting independent investigations goes. Certainly all those fascist guys on the WC were no threat to expose anything. But Johnson as president could wreak total havoc on a lot of very important people if he turned on the plotters, and I really doubt they would do the assassination the way they did if they weren't assured of Johnson's complete cooperation.

Edit: Rostow, yep. Fits like a glove.

Edited by Dale Thorn
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Guest Robert Morrow

Lyndon Johnson was at the core of the JFK assassation. What the doubters like DiEugenio conveniently overlook are the very close ties of LBJ and his Texas oil men to the PEAK of post WWII US intelligence: people like Allen Dulles (who visited LBJ at his ranch within 2 weeks of the 1960 Democratic convention where LBJ/Sam Rayburn blackmailed/intimidated JFK into putting Johnson on the ticket), people like Nelson Rockefeller, as deep CIA as you can get and who LBJ covertly supported for president in April 1968 (no one in JFK research seems to know that, I have to point it out all the time) - no doubt to continue the cover up of the JFK assassination and to thwart RFK in the general election; people like Rockefeller man John J. McCloy who went dove hunting with key LBJ supporter Clint Murchison, Sr on his ranch in Mexico in summer 1963.

How do you get more deep CIA than Nelson Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, John J. McCloy? Averell Harriman is the only one comparable to them. And then Henry Kissinger for the next 50 years. [Note Kissinger was so close to Nelson Rockefeller that he, too, may have been involved in the JFK assassination. At the very least Kissinger knows who did it and why.]

If Lansdale was involved in the JFK assassination, then Allen Dulles was, and if Allen Dulles then the Rockefellers knew or approved. Those are a lot of assumptions, but they are reasonable ones.

LBJ himself told Madeleine Brown it was the Texas oil men in Dallas and the CIA who killed JFK. Johnson just left his *own* participation out.

The same oil men, especially Murchison, who were so chummy with John J. McCloy, the Rockefellers and Allen Dulles.

When Dulles went to LBJ's ranch in July, 1960, I guarantee you nice things were not said about JFK. They were probably discussing how to contain JFK (if not kill him...).

When John J. McCloy went dove hunting with Clint Murchison in summer, 1963, I guarantee you nice things were not said about JFK.

When LBJ was urging Nelson Rockefeller to run for president in spring, 1968, I guarantee you nice things were not said about RFK.

Of course, control freak Lyndon Johnson wanted a Texas Court of Inquiry. It was going to be his tool to cover up the JFK assassination. Well, after the assassination of both JFK and Oswald, the public opinion at that time was highly suspicious of the state of Texas and there were MILLIONS of Americans who suspected LBJ in the crime. Good instincts for the commonfolk I say.

Gene Rostow and Joe Alsop - friends of LBJ, especially Alsop - understood a Texas Court of Inquiry simply would not be saleable to the public. So they pounded this fact into LBJ who was hellbent on a Texas Court of Inquiry. So, LBJ relented and the next gameplan was to figure out how to stack and manipulate the Presidents Commission on Assassination of John Kennedy. Allen Dulles was the key cog in this manipulation.

Dulles' behavior on the Warren Commission farce was so egegious that, combined with the presence of Lansdale in Dallas, I think Allen Dulles was one of the key murderers of John Kennedy, who Dulles later remarked "That little Kennedy thought he was a god."

As for LBJ, he was hands on in the cover up - 1) calling Will Fritz on 11/23 and telling hhim that he had his man and to quit investigating 2) LBJ calls Parkland and Dr. Charles Crenshaw on 11/24 (confirmed by the switchboard operator) and asks for a confession out of the accused assassin, not asking WHO sent you and WHO ELSE was involved.

From the evidence in the hands of FBI and the Secret Service (Zapruder Film notedly) it was OBVIOUS there was a shooter from the front YET Lyndon Johnson has not a care in the world that there might be some Cuban/Russian/or mob assassins running free.

It's because it was LBJ-CIA assassin and Johnson was involved up to his ears in the JFK

assassination. So there could be no investigation of a "conspiracy." Damn those Dallas police and the Dallas DA who were on the verge of charging Oswald with a "conspiracy" to murder JFK. That had to be tamped down immediately - not to forestall and international crisis, but to forestall a *civil war* in America if the common folk found out. RFK said in late 1963 that if the truth were known about Dallas, there would be blood in the streets of America. This is at the same time RFK and Jackie were sending William Walton to the Russians to tell them the Kennedys knew they did not do it, and that it was a domestic conspiracy.

Immediately the Kremlim suspected that H.L. Hunt, a key Johnson supporter, and LBJ himself were involved in the JFK assassition. They were spot on! Along with millions of Americans.

Did Gene Rostow/Joe Alsop somehow lean on/intimidate/force LBJ to do something he did not want to do? As if there were some hidden CIA/military force pulling the strings on LBJ? Those little bitty guys: a columnist and professor running the president around like a puppet?

It's laughable. Johnson quickly figured out they were right about the politics and the appearance of the situation and went their direction, but he was not being ordered by anyone to do it.

LBJ quickly recognized that the cover-up would not be believable to millions of Americans if the cover up/non-investigation occurred in Texas. So Johnson just switched venues and manipulated it at the national level.

Edited by Robert Morrow
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Guest Dale Thorn

I think what Robert said is all relevant. At the top we have Harriman and his Skull-n-Bones'ers, McCloy, Rocky, Dulles - basically the guys who had the power to hobnob with the Nazis and walk away clean. Support of the joint chiefs would be necessary. Johnson would be required at the core, if the coup wasn't to go public.

But in spite of the golden-boy committee that decided JFK must die, the assassination still had that very unique, perhaps unique in the entire world up until then (and after) character of a revenge hit for a double cross. If the mob wants someone out of the way, they shoot him. If they want serious revenge, they take him back to the meat packing plant and burn off his private parts with hot irons etc. They couldn't do that to Kennedy, but they did the best they could, splattering his brains all over the road.

Note: I'm not suggesting this as a mob hit "as mafia", although they got to take part. I'm suggesting a much bigger mob acting in that style.

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David G. Healy started an interesting thread a week ago but once again the Lone Nutters resorted to using abuse instead of answering the question posed. I have re-posted it in an effort to get the LNs to address this issue:

John, I also posted a series of questions to the "Oswald-did-it" crowd some time back in one of the newsgroups and those questions were similarly met with verbal attacks. These are the questions I have on the case:

1. Earwitnesses claimed they heard the sound of a gunshot from the picket fence area, Critics attributed it to echoes. Eyewitnesses also reported seeing a "puff of smoke" in the same picket fence area. What type of echo produces a "puff of smoke" ?

2. If RFK had accepted without question the WC findings with regard to the murder of his brother, what reason would there be for his taking possession of his brother's brain and locking it away, rather than burying it with the body ?

3. Name another murder where there was a "jet effect".

5. Fifty-one witnesses held the shots sounded as if the came from west of the Depository, the area of the grassy knoll on Elm Street, the area directly on the right of the President's car when the bullets struck.


Yet the Warren Commission concluded that "no credible evidence" existed that any shots were fired from anywhere but the Texas School Book Depository.

In what other murder case was the testimony of 51 sworn and many other unheard witnesses dismissed so cavalierly as "no credible evidence"?

6. Why do the autopsy photographs show the skull intact, when the "Harper Bone Fragment" was missing from the skull at the time of the autopsy ?


7. Why did the FBI withhold from the WC Jack Ruby's ties to Organized Crime and his numerous phone calls to mobsters in the weeks prior to the assassination ?

9. The autopsy photograph of the back of the President's neck shows no entry wound anywhere in the neck, yet the Humes- supervised Rydberg drawing shows a bullet wound in the base of the neck.

Is the autopsy photo a fake, or did Humes lie about the location of the wound ?


10. Prior to 11/22/63, can you name ONE TIME when Oswald threatened President Kennedy specifically ?

11. What evidence is there that Lee Harvey Oswald ever purchased any 6.5mm ammunition ?

12. How did a "Defector" ( with an undesirable discharge ) get employed during the missile crisis by a company which did Gov't work on U-2 photos ?

13. When examined by the FBI, CE 399 had no bone particles, no clothing fibers and no blood on it from either victim. Why not ?

14. How did Sgt. Hill misidentify the shells found at the Tippit murder scene as coming from a .38 automatic when gun shells are clearly labelled by caliber and type on the bottom and are always identified by that label.


15. Why did the Dallas Police give Oswald a Nitrate Test that was known to be unreliable ?

17. Did Hoover proclaim Oswald guilty before or after the FBI examined any of the evidence ?

18. How did the President's tie get nicked in the front of the knot from a bullet exiting behind it ?


20. What evidence is there that Oswald ever received the mail-order rifle from the Post Office ?

21. Why did the the Dallas Police dust "4 pcs" of white "curtain rods" four months after the assassination for Oswald's fingerprints (CE1952) ?


22. The path of the "magic bullet" through Kennedy would have resulted in damage to his vertebra:


and yet there was no such damage. Why is that ?

23. How did Oswald know he could bring a 35 inch package to work without being seen ?

24. Why did Oswald leave his revolver in his rented room, a revolver he could have concealed on his person and which he would have needed to facilitate his escape ?

25. Why didn't "psycho killer" Oswald just step off the curb and shoot Kennedy point-blank with his revolver ?

26. Name one witness who identified Oswald as the shooter in the TSBD ON THE DAY OF THE ASSASSINATION.

27. Why did Emory Roberts order agents Ready and Hill to return to the follow-up car when the shooting began ?

28. What did the Warren Commission conclude was the motive for Oswald killing President Kennedy ?

29. What evidence is there that Lee Harvey Oswald ever purchased any .38SPL ammunition ?

30. Why weren't the bullet fragments photographed in their positions in the limousine as found ?

31. How did Oswald hide the rifle without leaving any identifiable fingerprints on it ?

34. Why were overpass witnesses James Simmons and Richard C. Dodd never called before the Warren Commission ?

35. Why were Elm St. witnesses Charles Brehm and Bill Newman, who were among the closest witnesses to the limo at the time of the shooting, never called before the Warren Commission ?

36. Lt. Day photographed partial prints on the triggerguard of the rifle. Why didn't he photograph the palm print on the rifle when he found it ?

37. Why couldn't the FBI find any identifiable prints on the rifle when they examined it on 11/23 ?

38. What make and model rifle has a recoil so powerful as to shake a floor violently enough to make plaster fall from the ceiling on the level below ?

39. Why did the Dallas Police not tape Oswald's interrogation ?

40. If Sgt. Hill was mistaken in his description of the shells found at the Tippit murder scene, why did he describe them in such detail when he radioed in that "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38 rather than a pistol" ?

41. Why did Kennedy's bodyguards stay up all night drinking in Fort Worth the night before the assassination ?

42. Nine SS agents drank liquor at the Fort Worth Press Club on the night before the assassination, in violation of SS regulations prohibiting agents from drinking while on "travel status". Why weren't they reprimanded ?

43. Was any blood found on the bullet fragments recovered from inside the limousine ?

44. Who was the Dallas Post Office employee who handed Oswald his mail-order rifle ?

45. Why were the records of Oswald's post office box "discarded" after his box was closed, when according to Postal Regulation 846.5h, those records were to be kept for two years after closing ?


46. Why was "the man with the football", the general who carried the briefcase with the codes for launching US nuclear weapons and who sat in the front seat between the SS agents, removed from the front seat of the limousine at the last minute ?

48. Why was the Mannlicher-Carcano in the "backyard" photograph equipped for a bottom mounted sling and the TSBD Carcano was not ?


49. On Saturday the 23rd, when Julia Ann Mercer selected Jack Ruby's photograph as one of two who looked like the man she saw unloading a rifle from a truck on Elm St shortly before the assassination, why wasn't Ruby picked up for questioning or asked to participate in a police lineup ?

50. The Warren Commission concluded that three shots were fired, all from the Texas School Book Depository. It further concluded that one shot hit both President Kennedy and Governor Connally, one shot missed the limousine completely and one shot hit President Kennedy in the head. How many witnesses described the shooting as having happened that way ?

51. Michael Paine testified that he was shown "backyard photograph" C133-A on the night of the assassination. But Dallas Detective Gus Rose testified that the photo was not found until the following day, Saturday, November 23rd, during a search of the Paine residence. How did the authorities have in their possession a photo which had not yet been found ?

52. How many witnesses described the Tippit shooter as having a brown shirt ?

53. Why did the Warren Commission question members of the Oswald family as to whether Lee Harvey Oswald was left or right handed ?

54. Why was Lee Harvey Oswald reading rifle magazines at Alba's Garage in New Orleans and collecting coupons for mail-order weapons, when BOTH of HIS weapons had already been purchased ?

55. Why was Oswald fingerprinted at 12:35am and arraigned at 1:35am on Saturday morning ?

56. If Oswald travelled the ten blocks from his roominghouse to the scene of the Tippit murder in 5 to 10 minutes, why did it take him 30 minutes to travel the seven blocks between the Tippit murder scene and the Texas Theater ?

57. Why did the Dallas Police come looking for Oswald at the roominghouse BEFORE they arrested him in the Texas Theater ?

58. Cecil Stoughton's negative of the famous photo showing Rep. Albert Thomas winking at LBJ aboard Air Force One is missing. Anyone know what happened to it ?

59. Why wasn't Tom Alyea, the Dallas news reporter whose cameraman filmed the discovery of the rifle on the sixth floor, called before the Warren Commission ?

60. What proof is there that "A.J. Hidell" was approved to receive mail at either of Oswald's Dallas Post Office Boxes ?

61. If Ruby didn't know Oswald, how did he know enough to correct Henry Wade that the group Oswald belonged to was the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee" ?

62. The jacket which was found after the Tippit murder and identified as being owned by Lee Harvey Oswald and discarded by him in his escape, had a tag on it from a dry cleaning store.

The identification of the store that attached that tag and the record of the cleaning would have been evidence that proved that the jacket indeed belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

What was the name of the store and when was that jacket cleaned ?

63. How did Oswald manage to load the rifle without leaving any fingerprints on the ammunition clip or the cartridges ?

65. Where are the three pieces of metal that were removed from General Walker's arm ?

66. In the FBI's transcript of the DPD radio transmissons for November 22, 1963, (CE 1974, pg. 48 )


there are two broadcasts at 1:08 pm by unit # 58 first, then unit # 488. Both attempts to reach the dispatcher are labelled by the FBI as "garbled". Who were the officers designated #s 58 and 488 ?

67. Name someone who witnessed Oswald's rifle scores of 190 and 212.

68. Name Oswald's Communist associates in the US and their group affiliations.

69. What evidence is there that the Oswald rifle was in the Paine garage on November 21st ?

70. How did Oswald construct the "paper gun sack" and leave only one fingerprint and one palm print on the paper ?

71. Lee Oswald was placed in a police lineup with teenagers and a Mexican. How many eyewitnesses described Tippit's murderer as a teenager or a Mexican ?

72. How can one accept a transiting bullet through Kennedy without a bullet track through the body ?

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Guest Dale Thorn

Gil, you might want to expand a couple of items. At the Tippit scene, the shells were obviously planted, since revolvers don't eject shells. On the jet effect, it requires a true "head snap", not a "body snap". Note how Kennedy's entire upper torso is thrust backward, and Jackie behind him (in relation to the camera) does not move an inch. So the head snap is actually a body thrust, where the torso weighs 20 times as much as the head, and Jackie doesn't move even slightly, so it wasn't accelleration of the car. And don't let anyone bully you on those revolver shells. They are quite obviously planted "evidence".

Edited by Dale Thorn
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Of course Bill.

Barbour's documentary has been around for decades.

It is pretty good, although there are a couple of errors in it.

But it gives Garrison a chance to talk in his own way without being edited by the MSM.

Barbour is a really good guy. He has a lot of interesting stuff to tell about his interview was secretly edited by his boss in order to make JG look foolish.

And he is right. On the JFK case, its not conspiracy theory anymore. Its conspiracy fact. Kennedy was killed by a high level conspiracy which manipulated Oswald to be the fall guy. There was a crossfire in Dealey Plaza, and Oswald did not fire any of the shots that killed JFK. The fatal shot was fired from the end of the picket fence.

Thanks Jim,

And I thought I know all the players.

Can we get him to join the forum?


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I would ad this why was Oswald finger printed at the funeral home?

For what reason did they need his prints at that time?

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Guest Tom Scully

Of course Bill.

Barbour's documentary has been around for decades.

It is pretty good, although there are a couple of errors in it.

But it gives Garrison a chance to talk in his own way without being edited by the MSM.

Barbour is a really good guy. He has a lot of interesting stuff to tell about his interview was secretly edited by his boss in order to make JG look foolish.

And he is right. On the JFK case, its not conspiracy theory anymore. Its conspiracy fact. Kennedy was killed by a high level conspiracy which manipulated Oswald to be the fall guy. There was a crossfire in Dealey Plaza, and Oswald did not fire any of the shots that killed JFK. The fatal shot was fired from the end of the picket fence.

Thanks Jim,

And I thought I know all the players.

Can we get him to join the forum?


Bill, you can watch the original three hours, "The Garrison Tapes" here. It is cumbersome since I only have the free, stripped down Quicktime viewer, but it is till viewable.: http://johnbarboursworld.com/garrison.html

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