Larry Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked (2nd edition)

[John Simkin]

Larry, did you get the opportunity to read Fabian Escalante’s JFK: The Cuba Files, the Untold Story of the Plot to Kill Kennedy before Someone Would Have Talked?

In 1976 Escalante was appointed as head of the Department of State Security (DSE). Later that year members of the US House of Representatives Select Committee visited Cuba and requested help with investigating the assassination of JFK and MLK. Escalante was asked to oversee this investigation. This involved studying the files of revolutionaries, terrorists and émigrés. The final report was sent to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). However, it contained information that the HSCA did not want to hear and it has never been published.

In 1993 Escalante became head of the Cuban Security Studies Center. This allowed him to re-examine the assassination of JFK. As he points out, along with “Colonel Arturo Rodreiguez Mendoza (now deceased), I studied all the available material and publications, consulted with former agents and operatives, and investigated all the accessible documentation.”

In his book provides evidence that JFK was assassinated as a result of a conspiracy, organized by the CIA and involving anti-Castro militants, in order to initiate an invasion of Cuba.

He names the following as people he believes were involved in this plot: David Atlee Phillips, Howard Hunt, David Sanchez Morales, Richard Helms, Eladio del Valle, Herminio Diaz Garcia, Antonio Lucas Carlos Veciana, manuel Oscarberro, Fermin de Goicoechea Sanchez, Isidro Borja Simo, Manuel Salvat Rogue, Carlos Bringuier, Victor Hernandez Espinosa and Sergio Arcacha Smith.

[Myra Bronstein]

Hi Myra, the short answer is no I don't think he was - for several reasons. First, there are surveillance records which pretty clearly show that he was trying to get out from under the FBI just before the assassination and that effort (referred to as "Roselli's run" in the book) succeeded and put him in Vegas - when next found immediately after the assassination he is in Vegas at his favorite hotel.

I feel the reason for this move may have been a last minute contact with Jack Ruby, Ruby's appearance in Vegas at the same time Roselli would have arrived was documented in several reports but the WC managed to avoid inserting it into Ruby's official time line. We do know that a call from Roslli's hotel on Sunday triggered the move to get Belli to defend Ruby (with a cover that the contact and funds were to be cut out through Early Ruby) and I suspect that came from Roselli himself - Belli's partner said he knew the caller and it was somebody he had known from Havana and casino contacts there.

Roselli's key role seems to have been handling the Ruby end and some other support activities through his crime contacts; as he super sharp manager there was no need nor reason for him to be in Dallas to do that and he certainly would not have been part of the tactical plot - the thought that he was scheduled to be a shooter at his age and with his lack of skill or practice just doens't wash.

One of the open issues for research that the book does list is an effort to obtain the physical FBI surveillance reports on Roselli for the months immediately before the assassination. If they are available I have not been able to locate them and they could help a lot; clearly from the records we have he was under surveillance on a daily baisis with his comings and goings tracked by FBI agents in LA and Vegas. aAnd the FBI knew about his CIA contacts and Cuban activties - also missing on the Roselli surveillance are any reports at all from the Miami office. Anther key in tieing Roselli into things would have been more background work on Alex Gruber who was most likely a cut out used to get money to Ruby in Dallas.

So....can't say for sure he was not in Dallas but what we know at this point does not confirm that he was while his presence in Vegas right before and right after is confirmed.

-- and you didn't miss it in the book...I don't think I put in a firm conclusion one way or the other.... Larry

Thank you Larry! I'm very interested in Roselli's actions, so I'm glad he's such a focus of your book.

[Myra Bronstein]

So Larry, are you willing to view a lineup?

You've probably seen those websites "Familar Faces in Dealey Plaza," 1 and 2. Some with James Richard's photos. Some of them show people who could be Ted Shackley and David Morales:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/eaglesham/page4.jpg

http://www.jfkresearch.com/eaglesham/page5.jpg

Do you have an opinion on who the individuals in the pix are?

Thanks again.

[Larry Hancock]

Well Myra, by now you may be getting the impression that I'm pretty conservative...for a conspiracy nut that is...grin.

Yes, I've played the "faces in DP" game for awhile, a good deal with James as well. For the two photos you

show, I belive that is Florer and not Shackley, too young for Shackley in 63. And I don't belive that to be Morales and

I think at this point James agrees.

I've gotten to the point that if I have some evidence that puts an individual in a given site I consider photo matches

as corroboration but beyond that I've seen way to many people that look like other people.

At present, I tend to think that there is a good possiblity that we have a photo of Vidal on Elm, that we may have a photo

of Milteer on Houston (and yes I'm not at all convinced by the HSCA, heck they didn't even do the leg work to check where

he really was that day) and as a very wild card I'm open to Conein being in DP although somebody really needs to do some

more extensive background work on him; what I've managed to do seems to show that he was in Saigon at this time

frame and tied up with inquiries about the Diem disaster.

Awhile back I tried, with introductions from Sherry G., to contact some specialists in photo ID to get some opinions but

once they found out the location and date nobody was willing to play.

In regard to John's question on Escalante, I read the earlier books he was a primary source for but have not read this one. The list looks pretty much the same as in the earlier books. My problem with Escalante is pulling out the actual Cuban G2 data from the stuff the Cubans have gotten from JFK assassination books which they clearly do read. Having said that there were some good tidbits in the earlier books and I'm wondering if he provides more primary source data in the current one?

-- Larry

[John Simkin]

Larry, have you seen this?

http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2006/Dec/EEN457da1736fdcf.html

[Larry Hancock]

Hi John, thanks - I had not seen that. JFK Lancer issues a new release on Monday which included

Edward Martino's corroborative statement. It was put out though a commercial service (see below)

because we really have had little success in getting any media coverage. This one has generated

some response inclouding some media in Dallas and it looks like the article you found was picked up

from the release. It's certainly an uphill battle though.

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2006/dec/1...riddles-solved/

-- thanks again, Larry

Larry, have you seen this?

http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2006/Dec/EEN457da1736fdcf.html

[John Simkin]

In regard to John's question on Escalante, I read the earlier books he was a primary source for but have not read this one. The list looks pretty much the same as in the earlier books. My problem with Escalante is pulling out the actual Cuban G2 data from the stuff the Cubans have gotten from JFK assassination books which they clearly do read. Having said that there were some good tidbits in the earlier books and I'm wondering if he provides more primary source data in the current one?

The most interesting aspect of the book comes from the G-2 files. It seems that Castro had a lot of agents working in the United States in 1963. For example, during his investigation, Fabian Escalante came across a Cuban intelligence source report in April 1963. It seems that G-2 had someone spying on the Friends of Democratic Cuba in New Orleans. It seems that some interesting characters were associating with each other during this period. This included Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada, Sergio Arcacha, Antonio Cuesta, Eladio del Valle, Frank Bartes, Carlos Bringuier, Manuel Salvat and Manuel Villafana.

Between May and September, Cuban agents in the United States reported meetings between CIA officers and anti-Castro terrorists. This included Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Orlando Piedra, Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada, Antonio Cuesta, Eladio del Valle, Antonio Veciana, Joaquin Sanjenis and the Novo Sampol brothers.

Another informant identified Lee Harvey Oswald as staying at a CIA safe-house on the outskirts of Miami during the summer of 1963. While there he met Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada and Antonio Cuesta.

The final report of interest concerns a Cuban agent who identified Eladio del Valle and Herminio Diaz in Dallas on 20th November, 1963. The agent also reported that the two men “handled large sums of money after the crime.”

[Larry Hancock]

John that is quite interesting, a few observations:

1) That would be the first time anyone had put Posada and Bosch in New Orleans as far as I

know...and of course Arcacha Smith had left NO for Florida and then Houston by the end of

1962.

3) On the Oswald meeting in Miami...so does that suggest Cuban G2 knew who Oswald was?

That they had a file on him before his trip to Mexico City?

3) On the Dallas report, that's pretty interesting...does Escalante provide copies of any of these

reports or corroboration for them....it would be good to know that they are real documents from

1963. If he has samples can we get them scanned and uploaded?

-- thanks, Larry

[John Simkin]

John that is quite interesting, a few observations:

1) That would be the first time anyone had put Posada and Bosch in New Orleans as far as I

know...and of course Arcacha Smith had left NO for Florida and then Houston by the end of

1962.

3) On the Oswald meeting in Miami...so does that suggest Cuban G2 knew who Oswald was?

That they had a file on him before his trip to Mexico City?

3) On the Dallas report, that's pretty interesting...does Escalante provide copies of any of these

reports or corroboration for them....it would be good to know that they are real documents from

1963. If he has samples can we get them scanned and uploaded?

-- thanks, Larry

Except for a couple of letters, Escalante does not provide documents or references. He also says that he has not had recent access to the G2 files and much of what he writes is based on what he remembers from earlier investigations.

I have invited him to join the forum.

[Larry Hancock]

It would be interesting to hear from him but I have some of the same concerns that Stephen Roy expressed in his

forum post. Without documents it's insteresting but I'm not sure that it gives us anything really usable...after all these

names have been in play for some time.

And you would have to think that any document as "hot" as one showing Cuban G2 monitoring Oswald in a Miami

meeting would have gotten some special treatment and generated a lot of dialog at high levels within the Cuban

government. Why would Fidel hesitate to turn something like that over to the HSCA....for that matter why would Fidel

hesitate to turn over any real documents which would implicate the CIA or exiles...and the HSCA did go to Cuba.

...Larry

John that is quite interesting, a few observations:

1) That would be the first time anyone had put Posada and Bosch in New Orleans as far as I

know...and of course Arcacha Smith had left NO for Florida and then Houston by the end of

1962.

3) On the Oswald meeting in Miami...so does that suggest Cuban G2 knew who Oswald was?

That they had a file on him before his trip to Mexico City?

3) On the Dallas report, that's pretty interesting...does Escalante provide copies of any of these

reports or corroboration for them....it would be good to know that they are real documents from

1963. If he has samples can we get them scanned and uploaded?

-- thanks, Larry

Except for a couple of letters, Escalante does not provide documents or references. He also says that he has not had recent access to the G2 files and much of what he writes is based on what he remembers from earlier investigations.

I have invited him to join the forum.

[John Simkin]

In his book Fabian Escalante claims that the Cuban Department of State Security (DSE) Became aware of David Sanchez Morales activities in Cuba as early as 1958. He claims that “he was the officer who attended to Phillips and handled covert agents Frank Fiorini (Frank Sturges) and Gerry Patrick Hemming”. (page 22)

According to Escalante, in 1978, Rolando Cubela agreed to give evidence against CIA agents he worked with. Using photographic evidence, Cubela identified Morales as being his contact as early as 1960. Escalante said this news surprised the DSE. (page 70) Cubela also claimed that he met Morales in Paris in September 1963. (page 186) Escalante also argues that Morales was “coordinator of Phillips’s actions in Mexico”. (page 70) Does this fit in with documents you have seen?

Escalante is convinced that Morales played a major role in the assassination of JFK and argues “his description matches the person who picked up Lee Harvey Oswald at the exit to the book depository after the fatal shots”. (page 186) This is just clearly just his opinion.

Escalante definitely has an agenda. He seems very keen to link Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada to the assassination. There are obvious political reasons for this and is probably an attempt to hurt the Bush family.

[Larry Hancock]

We do now have something concrete as to when Cuban intelligence became aware of and decided to move against Morales. That is covered in the new edition and the action appears to have been triggered by their finding Morales name on a list of secret police badges issued by Batista. Based on that they issued an arrest warrant to the American Embassy, the Embassy pushed back but that was pretty much the end of Morales in Cuba and it appears that he may have had to exit Cuba shortly thereafter.....this detail can be seen in the new "Zamka" document provided for Chapter 8 on the book WEB site.

-- Larry

[Michael Hogan]

Hello Larry,

In another thread about possible CIA safehouses I took the liberty of quoting you. (See below) Is there any other information you could add to the subject?

In his excellent book Someone Would Have Talked, Larry Hancock writes:

Author Eric Tagg reports in Brush with Destiny, an excellent manuscript on the life of Buddy Walthers, Dallas County Deputy Sheriff, that Walthers was contacted on the evening of November 22 by his mother-in-law. She lived next door to the house on Harlandale that had started to receive a lot of mysterious late night visitors in October and November. She had become suspicious of her new neighbors who had moved in only 2-3 months before, and who held frequent meetings lasting long into the nights. Apparently, she felt that these Cubans might somehow be connected to Lee Oswald; in fact she told Walthers that she had seen someone looking very much like Oswald going into the house.

Walthers continued his own investigation of the house and its occupants. He found that one occupant was Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberrio, and that Frank Ellsworth of the ATF was indeed monitoring Orcarberrio's armaments buying efforts at the time of the assassination. Walthers concluded his investigation and on November 26, he submitted a follow-up report.

There are no records indicating the Secret Service ever pursued Walther's report. The CIA did, but was confused (it would seem) by a misspelling of Harlandale in Walther's original report and dropped the inquiry on the grounds that no such address existed. The FBI managed to locate the address but did no more than simply confirm that the Cubans and Orcarberrio had been there and departed.

An examination of an FBI follow-up on Walther's report is even more revealing. It seems that the FBI had a source within Alpha 66 in Dallas who reported to it that Oswald was not associated with Alpha 66 in any way and had never been to the house on Harlandale. The same report notes that the source later moved to Puerto Rico after the assassination. Since we know the Rodriguez Orcarberrio made such a move, it is possible that the FBI's source clearing the house on Harlandale may have been one of the persons reported as being in contact with Oswald. The FBI report made no mention of the fact that in 1964 the Secret Service listed Orcarberrio as a potential Presidential threat, nor does it mention yet another, separate FBI report in which a witness reported Orcarberrio in the company of a man closely resembling Lee Oswald.

Also, Buddy Walthers reported that when they searched the house of Ruth Paine, "also found was a set of metal file boxes containing records that appeared to be the names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz...."

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol19_0269b.htm

(bottom of page)

Larry, do you know what ever happened to that set of metal file boxes? Thanks very much.

Mike

Edited December 17, 2006 by Michael Hogan

[Larry Hancock]

Mike, this is an area that deserves further research but as far as I am aware neither the boxes nor their

contents made it into the FBI evidence inventory. You will find some further elaboration of this in the end notes

of the book - interestingly, there were apparently a lot of rumors about this material floating around DPD and other

parties in Dallas. Enough that the WC actually interviewed Walthers on this point; however they did their

usual terrible job of closed end questioning - essentially doing nothing more than attempting to get him

to confirm that the material which was widely reported to be in those files really was not as the rumors

described

However, rather than agreeing with that Walthers simply stated that he had not sorted the boxes and placed the contents into

inventory, rather he had only transported them.

Which of course did not resolve the issue at all but apparently gave WC counsel an out so they could call the

matter closed.

If anyone does find evidence that the file boxes were inventoried and placed into evidence I'd be happy to post

the listing on my book WEB site.

-- Larry

[Robin Finn]

In Appendix C,you write of "recruitment operations in progress against both Veciana's own cousin and Sylvia Duran." I've always wondered if Duran was already a U.S. asset,either witting or unwitting, at the time of Oswald's visit to Mexico City.All of the CIA people that spoke to the HSCA were very wary of talking about the possibilty,and it was established that Win Scott had a "P" file on her.I can see how she might have been"false flag" recruited by the belief she was working for the Mexicans.