How long did it take to block traffic on this street?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Curious if anyone knows how long it took the Dallas police to seal off this street?

[Jack White]

The Bell film shows that Houston was blocked off north of the Elm

intersection BECAUSE IT WAS BEING PAVED AND WIDENED

NORTHWARD. See fresh concrete in middle of frame. So the

street WAS ALREADY CLOSED north of Elm.

Jack

[Guest Mark Valenti]

The Bell film shows that Houston was blocked off north of the Elm

intersection BECAUSE IT WAS BEING PAVED AND WIDENED

NORTHWARD. See fresh concrete in middle of frame. So the

street WAS ALREADY CLOSED north of Elm.

Jack

So there was no way for a car to head in the direction of the construction? In other words, if a car was parked behind the TSBD in the loading dock area, it would have to make a RIGHT turn, toward the front of the building?

[Jack White]

The Bell film shows that Houston was blocked off north of the Elm

intersection BECAUSE IT WAS BEING PAVED AND WIDENED

NORTHWARD. See fresh concrete in middle of frame. So the

street WAS ALREADY CLOSED north of Elm.

Jack

So there was no way for a car to head in the direction of the construction? In other words, if a car was parked behind the TSBD in the loading dock area, it would have to make a RIGHT turn, toward the front of the building?

I don't know. The street just north of Elm (behind the DalTex Bldg) MAY have been

open, but it deadends into Houston. In the next block, the street curves to the east,

as the Bell frame shows. Houston was then two-way, not one-way as now. But during

and after the assassination it was blocked to traffic. I do not know additional traffic

details.

Jack

Edited November 2, 2006 by Jack White

[Guest Mark Valenti]

The Bell film shows that Houston was blocked off north of the Elm

intersection BECAUSE IT WAS BEING PAVED AND WIDENED

NORTHWARD. See fresh concrete in middle of frame. So the

street WAS ALREADY CLOSED north of Elm.

Jack

So there was no way for a car to head in the direction of the construction? In other words, if a car was parked behind the TSBD in the loading dock area, it would have to make a RIGHT turn, toward the front of the building?

I don't know. The street just north of Elm (behind the DalTex Bldg) MAY have been

open, but it deadends into Houston. In the next block, the street curves to the east,

as the Bell frame shows. Houston was then two-way, not one-way as now. But during

and after the assassination it was blocked to traffic. I do not know additional traffic

details.

Jack

Thanks for the info and additional photo.

MV

[Duke Lane]

Curious if anyone knows how long it took the Dallas police to seal off this street?

The Bell film shows that Houston was blocked off north of the Elm intersection BECAUSE IT WAS BEING PAVED AND WIDENED NORTHWARD. See fresh concrete in middle of frame. So the street WAS ALREADY CLOSED north of Elm.

Jack

So there was no way for a car to head in the direction of the construction? In other words, if a car was parked behind the TSBD in the loading dock area, it would have to make a RIGHT turn, toward the front of the building?

I don't know. The street just north of Elm (behind the DalTex Bldg) MAY have been open, but it deadends into Houston. In the next block, the street curves to the east, as the Bell frame shows. Houston was then two-way, not one-way as now. But during and after the assassination it was blocked to traffic. I do not know additional traffic details.

Jack

Jack is correct about the construction, even if you can't see it clearly in the screenshot of the MPEG. At least two people testified before the WC about it, and I have information on the construction from the newspapers at that time to verify it.

While the street was unquestionably closed off for construction, that did not prevent anyone from entering it, if they didn't mind bumping along rather than riding over smooth macadam.

Sam Pate drove several blocks through it from the other direction, in a red 1962 Pontiac station wagon belonging to the radio station he worked for (call letters slip my mind at the moment). It was, from what I gather from talking extensively with Sam about this, a "pretty rough ride," but not one that apparently did any serious or permanent damage to the vehicle, or kept it from making it from one end to the other.

The only difficulty of note was that, at the end of his trip at the rear of the TSBD, someone had to move a barricade to let him back out onto the pavement and then into the TSBD lot. He has never suggested that he encountered barricades - in place, anyway - anywhere else entering or passing through the construction, which was several blocks in size.

While it was at least possible that a car could have left the rear of the TSBD and turned left on Houston into the construction, it doesn't appear likely that it happened any time within, say, 15 minutes of the shooting. Quite a number of people were back there including not only Sam (intermittently) but also a man - whose name escapes me at the moment - who basically put himself on "guard duty" watching what went on back there for at least several minutes.

He was watching for persons running - which he did not see - so you'd have to make your own guess as to whether a car was so big that he couldn't have missed one if it came along, or whether he could have missed it because he was so intent on looking for a person.

[Jack White]

Thanks, Duke. Where did the alleged Nash Rambler come from?

Wasn't it from behind the TSBD? Didn't Carr, the construction worker,

observe it?

Jack

Edited November 2, 2006 by Jack White

[Duke Lane]

Thanks, Duke. Where did the alleged Nash Rambler come from? Wasn't it from behind the TSBD? Didn't Carr, the construction worker, observe it?

Jack

If I remember correctly, Carr said that it came "from the rear" of the TSBD as opposed, perhaps, to "from behind" it. I have always pictured in my mind that he was referring to it having been parked on the west side of Houston St near the rear of the building and coming south to Elm. Didn't he also allege that he'd seen someone run "alongside" the TSBD and jump into the car, which then sped off southward on Houston to ... was it Main?

I have also heard - but not observed for myself - that from where Carr said he was, you can't even see TSBD - or at least not at street level, such that you could see someone running from the front or around the side. Maybe one of these days when I've got extra time on my hands, I'll try to get up to look and take a photo.

If that's the case, then it really doesn't matter what Carr said he saw if he couldn't see what he said he saw, does it.

Incidentally, the self-appointed "guard" watching the back of the TSBD was James Romack. He is somewhat corroborated in his statements by DPD W.E. Barnett, and "Pop" Rackley, Virgie's dad, who worked with the same company as Romack.

[Robin Unger]

There appears to be construction work shown in this photo of the rear of the TSBD.

Another photo showing the WEST side of the TSBD.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Here are some great pics provided by Jerry Dealey.

[Shanet Clark]

Who or whom?