Motives for Killing Kennedy

[Lee Forman]

I saw an article once that detailed the 'Top 10' - I thought it would be interesting to compile a list. These are pieces of a lot of theories I have read over time.

[Rumors] of the Oil Depletion Allowance being discontinued.

LBJ off the 1964 ticket.

To halt further investigation into the Bobby Baker scandal.

LBJ's power lust.

Nixon's power lust.

Humiliation of Marcello with his deportation and trial.

[Robert] Kennedy's pursuit of the Mafia.

[Robert] Kennedy's pursuit of the Union.

Kennedy's role in the miserable failure of the BOP.

Kennedy's knowledge of the AEC and experimentation.

Kennedy supported enforcement of desegregation in schools and public facilities.

Kennedy's threat to destroy the CIA.

Retribution by certain key CIA members for actions following the BOP.

Castro's paranoia due to information received concerning attempts on his life.

Military Industrial Complex and Kennedy wanting to pull out of the Vietnam conflict.

Kennedy's lifestyle - particularly his philandering.

Kennedy's embargo of Cuba, leading to millions of dollars in lost revenues in Sugar, Prostitution, Gambling, etc.

Kennedy's knowledge of Area 51 and his blabbing about it to his girlfriend Marilyn.

Retribution for the Cuban Missile Crisis. Take your pick, Soviets or Joint Chiefs / US Intel.

Kennedy was perceived as Communist, or soft on Communism.

Kennedy mistreated his SS.

Kennedy's attempt to subvert the Federal Reserve.

[Robert] Kennedy's pursuit of the Insurance scams and the Mafia.

Kennedy's refusal to bow to the Vatican.

Kennedy's treatment of Nuclear weapons with respect to Israel.

Kennedy's secret invasion plans for Cuba and the possibility of WWIII, due to their still having the Soviet made missiles.

Kennedy's [perceived] role in the assassination of Trujillo and/or Diem.

Kennedy was killed because he was viewed by it as seeking to thwart the national security state from exercising its enormous power to consolidate U.S. hegemony over the globe through military means.

Kennedy was killed because Lee Harvey Oswald wanted attention.

I'm sure I am missing a few.

[Guest Eugene B. Connolly]

I'm sure I am missing a few.

Lee,

What about the fear among many of a Kennedy Dynasty becoming established?

Such a dynasty would have been unthinkable and a denial of the Ideal of the American Republic.

JFK re-elected 1964? Bobby elected in 1968 and re-elected 1n 1972?

Teddy elected in 1976 and re-elected 1n 1980?

An what about John Junior and the myriad of Kennedy nephews,nieces and cousins?

Where and when would it all end?

Answer: Dallas, Texas 22 November 1963

EBC

Apologies if you had already mentioned the Kennedy dynasty in your list.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

The sacking of Dulles.

removing Lyman Lemnitzer from the JCS, to Europe.

JFKs percieved fear of first strike nuclear option (Lemay, and most of the JCS)

Onassis, to clear the way to Jackie.

Jackie, as revenge for her Husbands adultery.

Hoover, to prevent Kennedy enforcing his retirement.

Connally was Oswalds real target, JFK just happened to be in the way.

[Lee Forman]

I'm sure I am missing a few.

Lee,

What about the fear among many of a Kennedy Dynasty becoming established?

Such a dynasty would have been unthinkable and a denial of the Ideal of the American Republic.

JFK re-elected 1964? Bobby elected in 1968 and re-elected 1n 1972?

Teddy elected in 1976 and re-elected 1n 1980?

An what about John Junior and the myriad of Kennedy nephews,nieces and cousins?

Where and when would it all end?

Answer: Dallas, Texas 22 November 1963

EBC

Apologies if you had already mentioned the Kennedy dynasty in your list.

Thanks Gene! No - I hadn't captured that one, and it should have been listed. Personally I would have been strongly opposed to the nomination of Robert Kennedy to the position of Attorney General - the same as I would if something similar had occurred with the Bush dynasty.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Thanks Stephen.

The sacking of Dulles.

Tried to capture that and other actions in this one:

Retribution by certain key CIA members for actions following the BOP.

removing Lyman Lemnitzer from the JCS, to Europe.

Good one. Missed it.

JFKs percieved fear of first strike nuclear option (Lemay, and most of the JCS)

Tried to capture that one here, but it can stand on it's own.

Retribution for the Cuban Missile Crisis. Take your pick, Soviets or Joint Chiefs / US Intel.

Onassis, to clear the way to Jackie.

Missed it. I have read this one also.

Jackie, as revenge for her Husbands adultery.

Never heard that one before.

Hoover, to prevent Kennedy enforcing his retirement.

Good one. Thanks - should have captured that one for sure.

Connally was Oswalds real target, JFK just happened to be in the way.

Let's add to that - Kennedy was killed accidentally in retribution for the mysterious sinking of the Thesher.

I suppose we should add a few more - I have also seen these:

Kennedy was killed because he was all about Peace.

Kennedy set up his own assassination in order to sacrifice himself for change.

It's an interesting exercise anyway. Someone once asked me, 'Why don't you work backwards? Find those folks that wouldn't be interested in killing Kennedy.' Because there don't seem to be many.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Lee, along with the Hoover thing I heard a story some time back, no way of proving it, about a meeting between J Edna, and JFK. Hoover says to Kennedy, "I have my spies you know Jack" whereapon he produces many colour photos of Kennedy making love to Marylyn Munroe, Kennedy studies these and says, "I have my spies too Edgar" and produces twice as many colour photos of Hoover and Tolson CENSORED FOR REASONS OF GOOD TASTE. Checkmate, you cant threaten him, you certainly cant bribe him, which leaves??????

[Lee Forman]

Lee, along with the Hoover thing I heard a story some time back, no way of proving it, about a meeting between J Edna, and JFK. Hoover says to Kennedy, "I have my spies you know Jack" whereapon he produces many colour photos of Kennedy making love to Marylyn Munroe, Kennedy studies these and says, "I have my spies too Edgar" and produces twice as many colour photos of Hoover and Tolson CENSORED FOR REASONS OF GOOD TASTE. Checkmate, you cant threaten him, you certainly cant bribe him, which leaves??????

Hi Stephen.

I wouldn't personally rule out Hoover as having been involved - especially if there is any truth to rumors of his having to have been forceably 'retired.' He certainly had motive. Would have been something to have seen the files that Tolson allegedly destroyed. However, I don't like him as the ultimate decision maker.

I've always tried to focus on the logistics of the action itself - I guess you can't help but wonder and learn along the way. The United Fruit Company is an example of a great 'precedent' - pun intended.

- lee

[Peter McGuire]

[qoute]

I'm sure I am missing a few.

Lee,

What about the fear among many of a Kennedy Dynasty becoming established?[/qoute]

Such a dynasty would have been unthinkable and a denial of the Ideal of the American Republic.

JFK re-elected 1964? Bobby elected in 1968 and re-elected 1n 1972?

Teddy elected in 1976 and re-elected 1n 1980?

An what about John Junior and the myriad of Kennedy nephews,nieces and cousins?

Where and when would it all end?

Answer: Dallas, Texas 22 November 1963

EBC

Apologies if you had already mentioned the Kennedy dynasty in your list.[/qoute]

Eugene:

I believe that this is the most obvious and most plausable reason of them all, although rarely discussed. Perhaps out of respect for the Kennedy family.

That decades long dynasty ( illegally obtained, stolen election) just could not be.

When you think about it, what the Kennedys were thinking of doing was not right. There is speculation about a dedicated line to the White House from Joe Kennedy! Even if a portion of the dirt on the Kennedys is true, they were unfit to occupy the White House for one term, much less decades. I also read recently of a $250,000,000 fortune of Joe Kennedy! Is that figure correct? A quarter of a billion dollars in 1963! Despite all that money, it seemed that nothing could stop the assassination. It was going to happen.

As Peter Dale Scott put it, the assassination of President Kennedy was not fundamentally an aberration at all; it was simply a routine technical adjustment of the machinery of government. Such things have happened before, and they will happen again; indeed, they happen all the time. That day in Dallas the machinery was just a bit more visable than usual, the target a bit more important than usual, the cleanup perhaps sloppier than usual.

The problem I have with this is the public and brutal nature of the slaying. With all these flaws, it seemed Kennedy was impeachable, and the "adjustment" could have been handled that way.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Peter McGuire

[Jim Root]

Kennedy's change in US foreign policy toward a limited test ban treaty with the Soviets in June of 1963. This made the military and intelligence communities very unhappy.

Jim Root

[Jim Root]

Sorry, double post.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Jim Root

[Lee Forman]

Kennedy's change in US foreign policy toward a limited test ban treaty with the Soviets in June of 1963. This made the military and intelligence communities very unhappy.

Jim Root

Hmmm...did my reply fail entirely? Usually it posts and then I run the risk of a double post.

- lee

[Shanet Clark]

Kennedy's change in US foreign policy toward a limited test ban treaty with the Soviets in June of 1963. This made the military and intelligence communities very unhappy.

Jim Root

Hmmm...did my reply fail entirely? Usually it posts and then I run the risk of a double post.

- lee

Lee

As we discussed, I am with you on the tactical magnitude and ambuscade specifics.

However, my emphasis for strategic causation follows Stephen Turner and Jim Root's line of thinking.

The motive was a mix of anti-Catholic, anti-movie star hatred of Kennedy's charisma, petty resentment in other words, vendettas against Joe Kennedy Sr., lingering reactionary hatred of Franklin Roosevelt and the New Dealers among the Naval brass and ultimately, the

powers of the Angleton /Helms Hoover/Dulles Dillon beltway inside group, the reactionary counter intelligence honchos at JCS and CIA who were resentful of a POTUS who wouldn't play along with their neoconservative brinksmanship and adventurism..........the motive was power and the transition was a concerted effort.

shanet

Edited November 9, 2006 by Shanet Clark

[Lee Forman]

Kennedy's change in US foreign policy toward a limited test ban treaty with the Soviets in June of 1963. This made the military and intelligence communities very unhappy.

Jim Root

Hmmm...did my reply fail entirely? Usually it posts and then I run the risk of a double post.

- lee

Lee

As we discussed, I am with you on the tactical magnitude and ambuscade specifics.

However, my emphasis for strategic causation follows Stephen Turner and Jim Root's line of thinking.

The motive was a mix of anti-Catholic, anti-movie star hatred, vendettas against Joe Kennedy Sr., lingering reactionary hatred of Franklin Roosevelt and the New Dealers among the Naval brass and ultimately, the

powers of the Angleton Helms Hoover Dulles Dillon group, the reactionary counter intelligence honchos at JCS and CIA who were resentful of a POTUS who wouldn't play along with their neoconservative brinksmanship and adventurism..........the motive was power and the transition was a concerted effort.

shanet

Thanks Shanet.

I certainly believe that there was a mix of motives. That there was a selection made of those who were serious enough to get it done - which would be more of an 'operational' phase. However, I am still foundering when it comes to who actually signed the order or gave the nod. As for me personally, I am thinking more and more that a lot of this stuff, albeit connected, is still peripheral to the 'decision making' phase - and that one of the MAJOR motivating factors was still Kennedy's decision to by-pass the Federal Reserve.

I think it is great to contrast the subsequent recall of the Treasury Notes against Lee Harvey Oswald's desire for noteriety.

- lee

[John Dolva]

it's just change. change hurts...mostly where the true motivation of the bulk of humanity lies, at home, and not in some idea, but in the pocket and mind.

A shift in the economy. The free movement of the Negro. Living where he chooses, shopping where he chooses, working where he chooses, associating, studying, travelling, spending, voting, the end of sharecropping, racial equality. Competitor in the workplace, positions of authority in law and government, the military, in fact wherever, by choice. A civil rights bill with real teeth, and a President prepared to go the hard yard and make it illegal to discriminate on the basis of race. A president prepared to enforce that law with military action against those who break this law and resist its enforcement.

The long hot summers would have been over much earlier.

The push-pull of "cold war - detente", as policy, would remain irrespective of which president was in charge at any moment. That is what the 4-2 rule's all about. It worked with the Soviet Union, leaving them punch drunk and reeling under the crushing economic drain of tension.

If Kennedy had lived, world events would have gone on, in fact with the US in a far more powerful moral position of persuasion. But a centuries old south would have changed forever.

Come gather 'round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You'll be drenched to the bone.

If your time to you

Is worth savin'

Then you better start swimmin'

Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics

Who prophesize with your pen

And keep your eyes wide

The chance won't come again

And don't speak too soon

For the wheel's still in spin

And there's no tellin' who

That it's namin'.

For the loser now

Will be later to win

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Don't stand in the doorway

Don't block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

There's a battle outside

And it is ragin'.

It'll soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And don't criticize

What you can't understand

Your sons and your daughters

Are beyond your command

Your old road is

Rapidly agin'.

Please get out of the new one

If you can't lend your hand

For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn

The curse it is cast

The slow one now

Will later be fast

As the present now

Will later be past

The order is

Rapidly fadin'.

And the first one now

Will later be last

For the times they are a-changin'.*

-released February 10, 1964.

Kennedy hit at the foundations of a way of life, once broken and done away with by enforced law, demanding a change in psyche that was quite simply too much for a significant critical mass of the population.

Conservatism asserted itself. That's all it was.

Just plain ole' homegrown, not imported, humans being humans. It drove respectable women to attacking governement officials with sticks of wood. It drove members of the armed forces to politicise and lead attempts at insurrection. And once again a president is shot.

Of course it's a lot easier to not take responsibility and instead identify some compartementalised exterior entity, the Cubans did it, the anti cubans did it, it was the mafia, it was the CIA, it was the rich, it was the war machinery, it was a lone nut...anything, as long as it isn't systemic.

The wave broke with Kennedy's death and years of turmoil followed.

* it's funny how the more things change...

[Jim Root]

Lee

I continue to look at what I preceive to be the obvious now.

Today, many people believe that the Warren Commission should have been named the McCloy Commission. From the first meeting (when the lead attorney was being discussed) McCloy took control. McCloy was positioned within the intelligence community (having written most of the legislation that created the various organizations) to know, understand and (as I now believe) to control the inner group communications of these multi-layered intelligence programs. McCloy would have been placed in a position to know exactly who Lee Harvey Oswald was and how to manipulate the situation to put the motorcade in "line of site" of Oswald.

Whithin days of Lee Harvey Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union we find McCloy expressing concern over the uncomming Paris Summit, an event that would never happen because of the downing of the American U-2 spy plane. Was Oswald involved in fullfilling McCloy's desire to prevent the Paris Summit? Whould this be the first time that Oswald's name would surface in connection with McCloy's accomplishment of his goals and agenda?

By chance (?) McCloy would author a letter to Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker in June of 1963, just five months before the assassination of Kennedy (an event that would link both these men to Oswald). The subject of the correspondence would center around a man named Sylvanus Thayer who, it just so happens, became the man who established the truly professional military in the US after an event that occured on Nov. 22. Walker was involved in two particular missions during WWII, both of a sensitive intelligence nature, for McCloy yet both McCloy and Walker make a very public point of distancing themselves from each other. In retrospect why did this occur in this manner?

More established is the McCloy - Taylor relationship. They ran a country (Germany) together during the 1950's Booth would be opposed to Kennedy's reversal on nuclear arms talks and (even more than McCloy) Taylor's relationship with Walker stretched all the way back to the 1920's.

These two men, Taylor and McCloy, were positioned to have the intelligence necessary to understand the event, they both had the ability to plan such an assassination and they were positioned to control the coverup and elimination of the assassin after the event. All three men, McCloy, Taylor and Walker were speaking of Thayer during June of 1963, all within days of Kennedy's reversal of policy on disarmament.

The pieces of this puzzle fit all the available evidence begining with the mail openings in New York by Helms and Dulles at a time when Oswald was writting to the Socialist Party (Helms would still be monitoring the movements of Oswald in the days preceeding the assassination). Why?

Oswald said he was a "patsy" because he had gone to the Soviet Union. Did Oswald figure out that he had been used, not by the Socialist, not by the Communists but by the US Government to stymie the Paris Summit? Did he first take a shot at Edwin Walker after he recognized him as the man who had passed information to him on his way to Russia? After the assassination attempt on Walker, Oswald shared his displeasure with both governments for their failure at Paris while giving a speech at Spring Hill College. Was Oswald the nut that the Warren Report would have us believe or was he the "patsy" that he said he was who was sent to the Soviet Union to accomplish a mission that he had no perception of until after the event?

Looking further we find that Jackie Kennedy, at the funeral of her husband, would relate to the Soviet Ambassador that it was important that they continue her husbands work in nuclear disarmament. Was Jackie perhaps aware that the Limited Test Ban Treaty may have played a role in John F. Kennedy's death and that there were persons that did not like the direction that he had taken?

One might ask, "Did the conspirators accomplish their goal?" After the death of Kennedy, McCloy would once again be placed in charge of America's disarmament negotiators and would ultimately conclude the treaty that he so diligently had striven for for over 20 years.

McCloy did achieve his goal but only after Kennedy had been eliminiated and the truth of the assassination had been mired within the Warren Commission's Report.!

Jim Root