the Holster

[John Dolva]

"Sometime after January 27, 1963, Seaport Traders, Inc., received through the mail a mail-order coupon for one ".38 St. W. 2" Bbl.," cost $29.95. Ten dollars in cash was enclosed. The order was signed in ink by "A. J. Hidell, aged 28." 588 (See Commission Exhibit No. 790, p. 173.) The date of the order was January 27 (no year shown), and the return address was Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, Tex. Also on the order form was an order, written in ink, for one box of ammunition and one holster, but a line was drawn through these items."

So: where did Lee get his holster from?

[John Dolva]

go on, indulge me...

[Thomas H. Purvis]

go on, indulge me...

John;

Based on it's origin, one could easily assume that it came with the "sling" which he had installed on the Carcano at some point after the backyard photo's.

The holster as well as the "sling" were in fact from a shoulder holster unit which was issued to US Army Air Corp Pilots, etc; during WWII.

The shoulder holster strap had been removed and thereafter utilized to make the sling for the rifle, and the holster was kept separate.

Now! As to exactly where/who he obtained the from?????????????????

Kind of like exactly where did he acquire the Carcano clip and the WCC Carcano ammo??????????????

[J. Raymond Carroll]

go on, indulge me...

I'm sure there were many stores in Dallas and Fort Worth that sold holsters over the counter. Perhaps one of our Texas members will comment, but I would be surprised if that is not the the case today.

John, why do you ask this question?

Kind of like exactly where did he acquire the Carcano clip and the WCC Carcano ammo??????????????

Not quite. We know the holster was found at his roominghouse, so we can connect it directly to him in that way, but how do you connect him to the Carcano clip or the ammo?

I have read that a bullet casing will retain identifiable fingerprints. Were there any prints on the shell casings or the clip that connected them to Lee Oswald? If not, how do you explain their absence? Did the gunman wear gloves?

Edited November 14, 2006 by J. Raymond Carroll

[John Dolva]

there was a time when Oswald did not have a revolver, ammo nor a holster. He filled an order for revolver, ammo and holster, then crossed out the ammo and the holster, and was mailed just the revolver.

a time comes when he does have a holster.

where did this holster come from?

"The holster as well as the "sling" were in fact from a shoulder holster unit which was issued to US Army Air Corp Pilots, etc; during WWII. The shoulder holster strap had been removed and thereafter utilized to make the sling for the rifle, and the holster was kept separate." - Thank you, Tom. Is there a link to a report etc that confirms this as far as Oswalds holster/sling?

when?

Before he sent the order for the revolver?

He ordered the revolver in late January 1963.

The order for the rifle was from February published ad and the order was made in March.

I'm not necessarily making anything of this, just noting the facts as known.

Did he order the sling/holster combo? Did someone give it to him? Did he buy it over the counter somewhere? Did someone 'intimate' know about Oswald seeking weapons by late 62-early 63?

One reason for crossing off the holster on the Revolver order form is that he found a more economical way of getting the holster and the sling which he therefore anticipated getting for the rifle which he had yet to order.

__________

Raymond, exactly why is partly curiosity regarding an apparent anomaly which may or may not in the process of finding the answer to, answer other questions.

Partly it's in relation to the 'mysterious dead letter envelope' Q256. It relates to an attempt to discern the contents of the 'paper bag' and envelope by studying the creases and shadows on the photo's of those items. I don't know if it's going to prove possible, (keeping in mind the ole' Rosarch tests) but a preliminary result is an outline of the holster in the envelope. Other possibilities are there, so it's partly a matter of getting a maximum number of match points and no contrary ones, and side by side with that enquiry tracking the possible contents.

Edited November 14, 2006 by John Dolva

[Jack White]

go on, indulge me...

John;

Based on it's origin, one could easily assume that it came with the "sling" which he had installed on the Carcano at some point after the backyard photo's.

The holster as well as the "sling" were in fact from a shoulder holster unit which was issued to US Army Air Corp Pilots, etc; during WWII.

The shoulder holster strap had been removed and thereafter utilized to make the sling for the rifle, and the holster was kept separate.

Now! As to exactly where/who he obtained the from?????????????????

Kind of like exactly where did he acquire the Carcano clip and the WCC Carcano ammo??????????????

The gun in the backyard photos is a different gun than the one found

in the TSBD. Go to http://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/c2766.html

for details.

Jack

[John Dolva]

Thank you Jack, there's the backyard photo's taken in late March showing, among other things, a holster and sling. Those more familiar with Lee's movements during this time may make something of it. I don't know. It does seem a bit funny that the holster somhow came into the 'picture' with no record of how. Meanwhile other minutae of total irrelevance are explored in depth.

It makes me wonder if it was indeed also fully answered. But for some reason the answer is missing from the record, so it could be good to know what the answer is.

[Dave Weaver]

Oswald had no pistol at his roominghouse prior to the assassination, according to Patricia Puckett Hall, granddaughter of Gladys Johnson, who was Oswalds landlord (or lady, sorry me german).

That is, if one believes the article posted here on lancerforum:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search

Edited November 14, 2006 by Dave Weaver

[Thomas H. Purvis]

there was a time when Oswald did not have a revolver, ammo nor a holster. He filled an order for revolver, ammo and holster, then crossed out the ammo and the holster, and was mailed just the revolver.

a time comes when he does have a holster.

where did this holster come from?

"The holster as well as the "sling" were in fact from a shoulder holster unit which was issued to US Army Air Corp Pilots, etc; during WWII. The shoulder holster strap had been removed and thereafter utilized to make the sling for the rifle, and the holster was kept separate." - Thank you, Tom. Is there a link to a report etc that confirms this as far as Oswalds holster/sling?

when?

Before he sent the order for the revolver?

He ordered the revolver in late January 1963.

The order for the rifle was from February published ad and the order was made in March.

I'm not necessarily making anything of this, just noting the facts as known.

Did he order the sling/holster combo? Did someone give it to him? Did he buy it over the counter somewhere? Did someone 'intimate' know about Oswald seeking weapons by late 62-early 63?

One reason for crossing off the holster on the Revolver order form is that he found a more economical way of getting the holster and the sling which he therefore anticipated getting for the rifle which he had yet to order.

__________

Raymond, exactly why is partly curiosity regarding an apparent anomaly which may or may not in the process of finding the answer to, answer other questions.

Partly it's in relation to the 'mysterious dead letter envelope' Q256. It relates to an attempt to discern the contents of the 'paper bag' and envelope by studying the creases and shadows on the photo's of those items. I don't know if it's going to prove possible, (keeping in mind the ole' Rosarch tests) but a preliminary result is an outline of the holster in the envelope. Other possibilities are there, so it's partly a matter of getting a maximum number of match points and no contrary ones, and side by side with that enquiry tracking the possible contents.

Is there a link to a report etc that confirms this as far as Oswalds holster/sling?

It was discovered by a serious researcher long ago, who actually knew how to go about this work.

Since then, I have acquired a couple of the holsters and shoulder harness straps/slings at various gun shows and stores which specialized in Army Surplus.

It was verified by the markings found on the holster which LHO had, and this lead to the discovery that the sling was in fact the shoulder strap for the holster.

[John Dolva]

Interesting post, David. I notice in a photo that there was an air-conditioner in a lower window opening. That's a possible hideyhole.

Did he pick up the revolver or drop off the holster?

The holster was found there. Did he have it when stopped by Baker? How can one know. Did Ruby indeed give it to him? Anyway, by this time it seems Lee didn't think of hiding from his landlady an evidence of having a gun. And what about the find of a second snub nose thirty eight caliber Smith and Wesson in a paper bag. I understand this was a few blocks away and a day later. But still, it's another curious thing. Does it all hang together in some way or are parts just conincidences? Lots of speculation inducing elements. ...the time the holster came into Oswalds possession and where from and where he kept it?

OK, I don't doubt this is correct Tom. I wonder who this researcher was and whether he/she found out more? I can see on the WC photo of the holster that there is an oval stamp in the leather. It's not clear enough to see any more detail. Presumably one will find the letters US there.

Edited November 14, 2006 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Interesting post, David. I notice in a photo that there was an air-conditioner in a lower window opening. That's a possible hideyhole.

Did he pick up the revolver or drop off the holster?

The holster was found there. Did he have it when stopped by Baker? How can one know. Did Ruby indeed give it to him? Anyway, by this time it seems Lee didn't think of hiding from his landlady an evidence of having a gun. And what about the find of a second snub nose thirty eight caliber Smith and Wesson in a paper bag. I understand this was a few blocks away and a day later. But still, it's another curious thing. Does it all hang together in some way or are parts just conincidences? Lots of speculation inducing elements. ...the time the holster came into Oswalds possession and where from and where he kept it?

OK, I don't doubt this is correct Tom. I wonder who this researcher was and whether he/she found out more? I can see on the WC photo of the holster that there is an oval stamp in the leather. It's not clear enough to see any more detail. Presumably one will find the letters US there.

Somewhere, packed away among much of the other stuff, I have the source of the information as well as the exact information relative to the stamping on the holster.

This is how I knew what to look for when I went on my quest for the same sling strap as LHO has on the Carcano in the backyard photo's.

Just another of those tidbits of information, yet it still does not give us much to go on other than that we know that LHO came up with this surplus holster w/shoulder strap which he made into a sling, as well as a Carcano clip and some extremely reliable ammunition.

[Jack White]

Interesting post, David. I notice in a photo that there was an air-conditioner in a lower window opening. That's a possible hideyhole.

Did he pick up the revolver or drop off the holster?

The holster was found there. Did he have it when stopped by Baker? How can one know. Did Ruby indeed give it to him? Anyway, by this time it seems Lee didn't think of hiding from his landlady an evidence of having a gun. And what about the find of a second snub nose thirty eight caliber Smith and Wesson in a paper bag. I understand this was a few blocks away and a day later. But still, it's another curious thing. Does it all hang together in some way or are parts just conincidences? Lots of speculation inducing elements. ...the time the holster came into Oswalds possession and where from and where he kept it?

OK, I don't doubt this is correct Tom. I wonder who this researcher was and whether he/she found out more? I can see on the WC photo of the holster that there is an oval stamp in the leather. It's not clear enough to see any more detail. Presumably one will find the letters US there.

Somewhere, packed away among much of the other stuff, I have the source of the information as well as the exact information relative to the stamping on the holster.

This is how I knew what to look for when I went on my quest for the same sling strap as LHO has on the Carcano in the backyard photo's.

Just another of those tidbits of information, yet it still does not give us much to go on other than that we know that LHO came up with this surplus holster w/shoulder strap which he made into a sling, as well as a Carcano clip and some extremely reliable ammunition.

The backyard photos HAVE NO SLING on the rifle. The WC decided it was a ROPE.

My belief is that it was added by a retouch artist, since it is not attached to the sling ring.

Jack

[J. Raymond Carroll]

we know that LHO came up with this surplus holster w/shoulder strap which he made into a sling, as well as a Carcano clip and some extremely reliable ammunition.

Yes, we know he had the holster in his roominghouse, but I repeat the question I posed earlier: How do we know he ever owned or possessed ammo or a clip for the MC rifle?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

we know that LHO came up with this surplus holster w/shoulder strap which he made into a sling, as well as a Carcano clip and some extremely reliable ammunition.

Yes, we know he had the holster in his roominghouse, but I repeat the question I posed earlier: How do we know he ever owned or possessed ammo or a clip for the MC rifle?

Yes, we know he had the holster in his roominghouse, but I repeat the question I posed earlier: How do we know he ever owned or possessed ammo or a clip for the MC rifle?

Because three of the four remaining rounds which he had, he utilized to shoot JFK with.

And, the clip was found in the weapon when it was found!

The question lies in exactly how he would have known that he could easily get his hands on a clilp as well as quality ammuntion, thus forsaking the need to order a clip and some of the old Italian/SMI ammo when he ordered the rifle.

Most would have at least ordered this, just to get the clip.

Prior knowledge usually relates to prior intent.

[Duke Lane]

Prior knowledge usually relates to prior intent.

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