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New witness, 85 yrs. old, discloses seeing new shooter


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JFK Assassination Special IV

From the coastocoastam radio show of Nov. 22, 2006

In a special 4-hour program, various guests individually presented information and conclusions about the conspiratorial aspects of the JFK assassination. In the first hour, Paul Groody, the mortician in charge of Lee Harvey Oswald's burial, and the exhumation of his body in 1981, presented details about a possible second 'Oswald.' In November 1963, he said he removed the top of Oswald's skull as part of the postmortem procedure-- yet the exhumed body's skull showed no markings or damage. View material we received from Groody. [see link at end of article]

Author Jim Marrs noted that a paraffin test on Oswald showed that he didn't have gunpowder residue, as a person would that had fired a rifle, and that voice stress analysis of his statement "I'm just a patsy," suggested he was telling the truth. The problem, said Marrs, is that Oswald never got a fair trial. Kennedy, he said, may have become a target because he authorized the printing of money through the Treasury (which was interest free) instead of using the Federal Reserve.

Researcher Lamar Waldron updated his work with new details from FBI files concerning mob lawyer Morris Shenker and the confession of one of Shenker's clients. Three Mafia bosses organized the killing of JFK, Waldron reported, and Bobby Kennedy couldn't prosecute them because they had information about a coup JFK had planned in Cuba.

Radio host and filmmaker Alex Jones posited that the JFK assassination was a case of infighting amongst the Global Elite, and that Kennedy sided with the European elite, rather than the American/British branch. LBJ was a puppet for the Elite and the Mafia provided "low level trigger men," said Jones, who argued that JFK was killed for a "cocktail of reasons" including his plan to withdraw troops from Viet Nam. Jones also shared that his new video, Terrorstorm, can be viewed for free at Google Video.

Author Brad Steiger cited the possibility that Howard Hughes was involved in the assassination, as he was a passionate Nixon supporter. He also outlined the connections between David Ferrie, Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby and the city of New Orleans.

Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family. For more on the JFK assassination, check out recaps from our shows in 2003, 2004 and 2005.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/11/22.html#recap

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JFK Assassination Special IV

From the coastocoastam radio show of Nov. 22, 2006

In a special 4-hour program, various guests individually presented information and conclusions about the conspiratorial aspects of the JFK assassination. In the first hour, Paul Groody, the mortician in charge of Lee Harvey Oswald's burial, and the exhumation of his body in 1981, presented details about a possible second 'Oswald.' In November 1963, he said he removed the top of Oswald's skull as part of the postmortem procedure-- yet the exhumed body's skull showed no markings or damage. View material we received from Groody. [see link at end of article]

Author Jim Marrs noted that a paraffin test on Oswald showed that he didn't have gunpowder residue, as a person would that had fired a rifle, and that voice stress analysis of his statement "I'm just a patsy," suggested he was telling the truth. The problem, said Marrs, is that Oswald never got a fair trial. Kennedy, he said, may have become a target because he authorized the printing of money through the Treasury (which was interest free) instead of using the Federal Reserve.

Researcher Lamar Waldron updated his work with new details from FBI files concerning mob lawyer Morris

Shenker and the confession of one of Shenker's clients. Three Mafia bosses organized the killing of JFK, Waldron reported, ...

Of course he reported that. And he doesn't answer logical questions. Which relates to this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8625

They're all on message.

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"In the first hour, Paul Groody, the mortician in charge of Lee Harvey Oswald's burial, and the exhumation of his body in 1981, presented details about a possible second 'Oswald.' In November 1963, he said he removed the top of Oswald's skull as part of the postmortem procedure-- yet the exhumed body's skull showed no markings or damage. View material we received from Groody."

Groody also said that when the body was originally buried in 1963, the casket was closed and contained in a hermetically sealed vault. But, in 1981, when the body was exhumed - both the casket and vault had had their lids tampered with and were slightly ajar - allowing water and moisture to enter both. When opened in 1981, he said that the head appeared to be in a more advanced state of deterioration than the rest of the body - and that the doctor at Baylor - who removed the head for photos and x-rays - said that it would merely be a matter of some "minor clipping". Groody said that he had attended many autopsies and had never seen a head seperated from a body through "minor clipping". He said when the casket lid was removed in 1981 - the head looked like a skull one might see in a doctor's office - and called it a "Halloween skull". Photos supposedly from the 1981 autopsy can be found on the internet - but they do not look the same as what Groody describes.

He went on to say that he knew the superintendant of Rose Hill cemetery in the early 60's (Johnson or Johnston?) and that he had died in 1966 while taking a shower in his own home - in what was ruled by authorities to have been a "suicide". After some inquiry of police on Groody's part - he found that the man had been STABBED 17 TIMES - in the BACK!!!

He made a cynical comment that perhaps the superintendent had informed someone that $100,000 may not have been enough money, afterall...

Edited by JL Allen
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"In the first hour, Paul Groody, the mortician in charge of Lee Harvey Oswald's burial, and the exhumation of his body in 1981, presented details about a possible second 'Oswald.' In November 1963, he said he removed the top of Oswald's skull as part of the postmortem procedure-- yet the exhumed body's skull showed no markings or damage. View material we received from Groody."

Groody also said that when the body was originally buried in 1963, the casket was closed and contained in a hermetically sealed vault. But, in 1981, when the body was exhumed - both the casket and vault had had their lids tampered with and were slightly ajar - allowing water and moisture to enter both. When opened in 1981, he said that the head appeared to be in a more advanced state of deterioration than the rest of the body - and that the doctor at Baylor - who removed the head for photos and x-rays - said that it would merely be a matter of some "minor clipping". Groody said that he had attended many autopsies and had never seen a head seperated from a body through "minor clipping". He said when the casket lid was removed in 1981 - the head looked like a skull one might see in a doctor's office - and called it a "Halloween skull". Photos supposedly from the 1981 autopsy can be found on the internet - but they do not look the same as what Groody describes.

He went on to say that he knew the superintendant of Rose Hill cemetery in the early 60's (Johnson or Johnston?) and that he had died in 1966 while taking a shower in his own home - in what was ruled by authorities to have been a "suicide". After some inquiry of police on Groody's part - he found that the man had been STABBED 17 TIMES - in the BACK!!!

He made a cynical comment that perhaps the superintendent had informed someone that $100,000 may not have been enough money, afterall...

Not totally accurate. I was the very first RESEARCHER Groody told his story to,

and a few details above are not exactly right. The craniotomy was done

by Dr. Earl Rose at autopsy...NOT by Groody. Groody was an embalmer.

He did such things as repair the autopsy disfigurements. He took off the

skull cap and FILLED THE HEAD WITH "STYROFOAM" for stability before

repairing the reflected scalp. He placed the autopsied internal organs in

a plastic bag within the chest cavity. He wired the jaws together, etc.

There were other things done by Groody, WHO WAS PRESENT AT THE

DISINTERMENT AND START OF THE LINDA NORTON REAUTOPSY, that

were not consistent with Groody's handiwork. He is adamant that the

disinterred head was not connected to the body, and even described to

me that he saw the head put into a steel medical pan after the casket

was opened, and it rolled around in the pan. The Norton Report makes

no mention of the material Groody says he put inside the skull. There

is much more to indicate that the body may not have been LHO.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family.

And that's it?

- lee

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Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family.

And that's it?

- lee

why would anybody run anywhere in public with a rifle? Even if they has creds, an excited officer could have shot them before they had the opportunity to display them.

In two tours in Homicide, the skull was always cut by the medical examiner-the mortician in Dallas would have no need or probably even authority to perform such a procedure.

this guy appears to be a publicity hound of the 1st order

Edited by Evan Marshall
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Guest Stephen Turner
Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family. For more on the JFK assassination, check out recaps from our shows in 2003, 2004 and 2005.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/11/22.html#recap

What building did he run out of, in which direction did he go, why did no other eyewitness report this, what sort of gun(rifle) was he carrying, how did his appearance differ from Oswald. This all sounds highly suspicious, and I dont mean the armed man running from the unnamed building.

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Steve -

She said that she was parked behind the TSBD - and saw a man who was built similarly to Oswald come running from the back of the building carrying a high-powered rifle with a telescopic sight. I believe she said it was a "buff-colored" Plymouth that he got into - which had been there waiting. It was being driven by a husky, darker-complected man who had bushy eyebrows and a hat - and had given her an unfriendly, disapproving stare. She said that prior to the man with the rifle exiting the building, a policeman (whom she thought may have been Tippit) had apparently approached the driver of the Plymouth - and had indicated that he should move his car. The driver did not respond immediately and the car continued to sit there for awhile longer. The host of the show asked if she would be willing to take a lie detector test, to which she agreed - and they were going to arrange for that to happen.

Edited by JL Allen
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Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family.

And that's it?

- lee

why would anybody run anywhere in public with a rifle? Even if they has creds, an excited officer could have shot them before they had the opportunity to display them.

In two tours in Homicide, the skull was always cut by the medical examiner-the mortician in Dallas would have no need or probably even authority to perform such a procedure.

this guy appears to be a publicity hound of the 1st order

Groody is an odd character, but not a publicity hound. I would

consider most embalmers a little strange to begin with.

If a publicity hound, he would not have waited 20 years to

come forward...and then only to a researcher he was acquainted

with (me). He explained that he lived in fear for years, until his

children were grown, and said he was no longer afraid. It was I,

not Groody, who brought him to the attention of researchers.

He did not seek publicity, and it is unfair to say he is a publicity

hound. Also, I believe he and his partner Baumgardner had agreed

not to tell what they knew, but I believe his partner eventually

died, cancelling their pact.

Jack

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Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family.

And that's it?

- lee

Velma is getting pretty brave in her old age.

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Additionally, a caller to the show named Velma, 85 years old, shared her account of seeing a gunman running out of a building at Dealey Plaza. Neither his appearance nor gun matched that of Oswald's, she said, adding that she kept quiet for many years to protect her family.

And that's it?

- lee

Velma is getting pretty brave in her old age.

my experiences with the polygraph were always less than satisfactory-you're at the mercy of the operator and what he or she decides is deception.

Edited by Evan Marshall
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Steve -

She said that she was parked behind the TSBD - and saw a man who was built similarly to Oswald come running from the back of the building carrying a high-powered rifle with a telescopic sight. I believe she said it was a "buff-colored" Plymouth that he got into - which had been there waiting. It was being driven by a husky, darker-complected man who had bushy eyebrows and a hat - and had given her an unfriendly, disapproving stare. She said that prior to the man with the rifle exiting the building, a policeman (whom she thought may have been Tippit) had apparently approached the driver of the Plymouth - and had indicated that he should move his car. The driver did not respond immediately and the car continued to sit there for awhile longer. The host of the show asked if she would be willing to take a lie detector test, to which she agreed - and they were going to arrange for that to happen.

Thanks for that JL - a bit more to the story. It would be great if we could get ahold of Velma and have her take a look at a few guns and a few cars - say an M1 Garand, for example, and a 1959 Olds Station Wagon, or a 1956 Pontiac. Plymouth sounds like a new one. Simply because Worrell didn't mention seeing a weapon doesn't make her less credible, IMO - and as for the 2 witnesses that 'saw nuttin' and vomited on Worrell's account - well, I would tend to believe Worrell, since there are problems with what they related [sorry - blanking on their names at the moment]. I'd like to know where she was standing, why she was there at all, what else she may have seen, how many shots she heard, etc. etc. It is hard to imagine that someone would physically run from the building with a rifle in plain view - however, the part on the car is interesting because it sounds similar to what Howard Brennan indicated in his later interview.

Evan -

my experiences with the polygraph were always less than satisfactory-you're at the mercy of the operator and what he or she decides is deception.

I tried to find a decent lie detector on the market - doesn't seem to be one - you can still find old clunky ones for a few grand out on eBay [Note: auction does not include pens or paper]. Plus, isn't it the case that an individual can beat a lie detector test with a bit of training? Tightening up on the sphincter, that kind of thing?

- lee

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Steve -

She said that she was parked behind the TSBD - and saw a man who was built similarly to Oswald come running from the back of the building carrying a high-powered rifle with a telescopic sight. I believe she said it was a "buff-colored" Plymouth that he got into - which had been there waiting. It was being driven by a husky, darker-complected man who had bushy eyebrows and a hat - and had given her an unfriendly, disapproving stare. She said that prior to the man with the rifle exiting the building, a policeman (whom she thought may have been Tippit) had apparently approached the driver of the Plymouth - and had indicated that he should move his car. The driver did not respond immediately and the car continued to sit there for awhile longer. The host of the show asked if she would be willing to take a lie detector test, to which she agreed - and they were going to arrange for that to happen.

I was listening to the radio show when the new witness called in. It is my recollection that she said the police officer, whom she claimed was Tippit, told the driver to move the car, which he reluctantly did. So when the shooter exited the building running soon thereafter he was perplexed for a moment as the car was not where it should have been but was instead in a nearby location where it could not be seen.

The shooter, holding the rifle, then started running at a gallop with his jacket blowing in the wind towards a nearby tunnel under a road and the police officer immediately pursued him in his vehicle. That was the last that was seen by the new witness. She did say that she later learned that the driver of the car that was forced to move was named "Elrod."

For a small charge anyone can listen to the rebroadcast of the radio show. I would do so but my schedule prevents me. Hopefully my recollection of what I heard around 3 a.m. in the morning is accurate. The account by the new witness had a ring of truth to it, which was remarked upon by the primary guest being interviewed on the show.

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  • 5 weeks later...
"In the first hour, Paul Groody, the mortician in charge of Lee Harvey Oswald's burial, and the exhumation of his body in 1981, presented details about a possible second 'Oswald.' In November 1963, he said he removed the top of Oswald's skull as part of the postmortem procedure -- yet the exhumed body's skull showed no markings or damage. View material we received from Groody."

Groody also said that when the body was originally buried in 1963, the casket was closed and contained in a hermetically sealed vault. But, in 1981, when the body was exhumed - both the casket and vault had had their lids tampered with and were slightly ajar - allowing water and moisture to enter both. When opened in 1981, he said that the head appeared to be in a more advanced state of deterioration than the rest of the body - and that the doctor at Baylor - who removed the head for photos and x-rays - said that it would merely be a matter of some "minor clipping". Groody said that he had attended many autopsies and had never seen a head seperated from a body through "minor clipping". He said when the casket lid was removed in 1981 - the head looked like a skull one might see in a doctor's office - and called it a "Halloween skull". Photos supposedly from the 1981 autopsy can be found on the internet - but they do not look the same as what Groody describes.

He went on to say that he knew the superintendant of Rose Hill cemetery in the early 60's (Johnson or Johnston?) and that he had died in 1966 while taking a shower in his own home - in what was ruled by authorities to have been a "suicide". After some inquiry of police on Groody's part - he found that the man had been STABBED 17 TIMES - in the BACK!!!

He made a cynical comment that perhaps the superintendent had informed someone that $100,000 may not have been enough money, afterall...

Not totally accurate. I was the very first RESEARCHER Groody told his story to, and a few details above are not exactly right. The craniotomy was done by Dr. Earl Rose at autopsy...NOT by Groody. Groody was an embalmer. He did such things as repair the autopsy disfigurements. He took off the skull cap and FILLED THE HEAD WITH "STYROFOAM" for stability before repairing the reflected scalp. He placed the autopsied internal organs in a plastic bag within the chest cavity. He wired the jaws together, etc.

There were other things done by Groody, WHO WAS PRESENT AT THE DISINTERMENT AND START OF THE LINDA NORTON REAUTOPSY, that were not consistent with Groody's handiwork. He is adamant that the disinterred head was not connected to the body, and even described to me that he saw the head put into a steel medical pan after the casket was opened, and it rolled around in the pan. The Norton Report makes no mention of the material Groody says he put inside the skull. There is much more to indicate that the body may not have been LHO.

Jack

It's been a while since I did the "Grave Doubts" piece in Larry Howard and Coke Buchanan's Dateline: Dallas journal, and every bit as long since I've read the full Norton Report, but based on those 10-plus-year-old recollections, my comments on the bolded portions above are that:
  • First and foremost, the Norton Report is explicit in every detail, not only in the gory stuff, but every step of the way, almost down to how many cylinders were firing on the machines that dug up the grave. If you can find a copy online - or if I ever get the inclination to transcribe the original copy I've got (no high likelihood to be found here, folks!) - virtually any questions that might arise about this topic will be answered by it.
  • The crypt - again, as I recall - had actually been broken, as if too great a weight had been put atop it, and had "caved in"(?), allowing dirt and dampness - and probably little creatures! - into the grave. It was not "ajar" - slightly or any other way - but simply broken. The elements had also rotted the cover of the casket, which had likewise fallen in on the body, either or both of its own weight (and the added water) and/or the cement crypt cover.
    (Worth adding: I doubt that there are any statistics of how often crypts break in this manner simply because most people aren't dug up to find out! Also: burial vaults are not hermetically sealed, and the average kind cannot be: it is simply a cement cover placed atop a cement box that the hermetically sealed casket fits into.)
  • Paul Groody's role, after the casket had been removed and brought to Baylor, was simply to identify the clothing in which he'd buried Oswald. He was brought into the autopsy room briefly for that purpose, did so, and was ushered out. There is no indication in the otherwise highly-detailed report that he was given any opportunity to make a close examination of the body (e.g., presence or absence of a craniotomy, etc.).
  • Further to that point, it is not my recollection that Groody was present when they began even the gross examination of the body itself, and my distinct recollection that he was NOT present when the head was removed.
  • Also further to that point, the body itself was not examined closely by the autopsists, nor was the clothing removed from it prior to the examination. Therefore, Groody's (supposed) comment about the head being "in worse condition than the body" could only have been based upon seeing Oswald's head and hands since no other part of the body was exposed in his presence.
  • The decision to remove the head and remove the jaw was based upon the highly deteriorated condition of the body (remember: water had been seeping in, and there is typically no way for it to get out). The reason that only "minor clipping" may have been necessary is due exactly to the degree of deterioration. (Frankly, I don't care how many autopsies Groody had attended, very few if any others of them had probably been on a body that had been rotting underground in a rotted casket for almost 20 years!)
  • Finally, the exhumation autopsy had limited scope: it was not to determine the cause of death or to catalog the condition of all of the organs, etc. The fact that no mention is made of "styrofoam" or anything else in the cranium is simply because there was no cause to enter the cranium in the first place: it was only to compare the teeth of the corpse to Oswald's dental records and thereby identify the body as his or not.

In 1992, when I wrote "Grave Doubts," I had a far different perspective of a lot of the noise that goes on with the JFK case, but even now I still consider a lot of it "noise." A lot of it - such as some of the comments attributed here to Paul Groody (whom I've never met, FWIW) - are not necessarily exactly what was said or done, but rather second- and third-hand accounts of what someone else said they remembered was said. Uh, as they recall.

I remember now - but not in what context I'd seen it - a video recording of Groody describing what he'd seen in the 1981 autopsy room, and can remember thinking at the time "where the hell did anyone come up with Groody saying 'his head had been switched' from what I just heard him say himself?" Groody never even hinted at it. If I remember correctly, it was an interview of him almost immediately after he'd left the room, possibly outside of Baylor. What people now say he said isn't at all what he actually did say, as is the case with many others too.

Stick to the facts - in this case, the Norton Report - and if you don't know what they are, find out.

EDIT - The Norton Report can be read online starting here. I have not re-read it to verify any of my above comments ... yet, anyway!

Edited by Duke Lane
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Steve -

She said that she was parked behind the TSBD - and saw a man who was built similarly to Oswald come running from the back of the building carrying a high-powered rifle with a telescopic sight. I believe she said it was a "buff-colored" Plymouth that he got into - which had been there waiting. It was being driven by a husky, darker-complected man who had bushy eyebrows and a hat - and had given her an unfriendly, disapproving stare. She said that prior to the man with the rifle exiting the building, a policeman (whom she thought may have been Tippit) had apparently approached the driver of the Plymouth - and had indicated that he should move his car. The driver did not respond immediately and the car continued to sit there for awhile longer. The host of the show asked if she would be willing to take a lie detector test, to which she agreed - and they were going to arrange for that to happen.

I was listening to the radio show when the new witness called in. It is my recollection that she said the police officer, whom she claimed was Tippit, told the driver to move the car, which he reluctantly did. So when the shooter exited the building running soon thereafter he was perplexed for a moment as the car was not where it should have been but was instead in a nearby location where it could not be seen.

The shooter, holding the rifle, then started running at a gallop with his jacket blowing in the wind towards a nearby tunnel under a road and the police officer immediately pursued him in his vehicle. That was the last that was seen by the new witness. She did say that she later learned that the driver of the car that was forced to move was named "Elrod."

For a small charge anyone can listen to the rebroadcast of the radio show. I would do so but my schedule prevents me. Hopefully my recollection of what I heard around 3 a.m. in the morning is accurate. The account by the new witness had a ring of truth to it, which was remarked upon by the primary guest being interviewed on the show.

Thanks Mr. Caddy. It could work with Worrell's account. It's hard to imagine that you would run with a weapon in your hands of course, and not be seen by anyone else. Sam Pate could then have arrived after the fact and seen Worrell. I forget - Couch? Had the cops chasing someone.

Mr. COUCH - No; no one knew. People were watching it - that is watching it carefully and walking and pointing to it. Uh - just as I ran up, policemen ran around the west corner and ran - uh - northward on the side of the building. And my first impression was that - uh - that they had chased someone out of the building around that corner, or possibly they had wounded someone. All of those policemen had their pistols pulled. And people were pointing back around those shrubs and that west corner and - uh - you would think that there was a chase going on in that direction.

Again, the reason that I didn't follow was because A.J. had come up, and my first concern was to get back with the President.

Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood

Nice work Belin. Lead the witness.

Sometimes you have to wonder, however - just how many plants were working the cover-up, how many witnesses kept their mouths shut or were told to, how many many have said something and it was repressed, etc. Worrell said he saw a man that seems to match this description...however...

Mr. WORRELL - I was there approximately 3 minutes before I saw this man come out the back door here.

Mr. SPECTER - All right. Now will you put a "Z" where you first saw the man whom you have just described or mentioned?

Mr. WORRELL - It is here I am pretty sure, I am not positive.

(Witness marking.)

Mr. SPECTER - You are pretty sure - but you can't be positive - but you are pretty sure?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - Okay. Now describe as best you can the man whom you have testified you saw at point "Z."

Mr. WORRELL - Describe his appearance?

Mr. SPECTER - Yes. Start by telling us how tall he was, to the best of your ability to recollect and estimate?

Mr. WORRELL - To the - it is going to be within 3 inches, 5-7 to 5-10.

Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate as to his weight?

Mr. WORRELL - 155 to 165.

Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate as to his height?

Mr. WORRELL - 5-7, 5-10.

Mr. SPECTER - Pardon me, your best estimate as to his age.

Mr. WORRELL - Well, the way he was running, I would say he was in his late twenties or middle - I mean early thirties. Because he was fast moving on.

Mr. SPECTER - Of what race was he?

Mr. WORRELL - White.

Mr. SPECTER - Can you describe the characteristics of his hair?

Mr. WORRELL - Black.

Mr. SPECTER - Did he have --

Mr. WORRELL - Well, I will say brunette.

Mr. SPECTER - Did he have a full head of hair, a partial head of hair, or what?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, see, I didn't see his face, I just saw the back of his head and it was full in back. I don't know what the front looked like. But it was full in back.

Mr. SPECTER - What clothes did the man have on?

Mr. WORRELL - Dark, like a jacket like that.

Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a dark gray jacket?

Mr. WORRELL - No, no. It was a jacket like that.

Mr. SPECTER - A suit jacket?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - Or was it a sports jacket?

Mr. WORRELL - Sports jacket.

Mr. SPECTER - Did not have on matching coat and trousers?

Mr. WORRELL - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Was it dark in color or light?

Mr. WORRELL - It was dark in color. I don't know whether it was blue, black, or brown, but it was dark, and he had light pants. And that is all I can say on his clothes, except his coat was open and kind of flapping back in the breeze when he was running.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, are there any other distinguishing characteristics that you can describe about him?

Mr. WORRELL - Not a thing.

Mr. SPECTER - What did he --

Mr. WORRELL - He wasn't holding nothing when he was running. He was just running.

There is the train overpass back in the direction that it seems that man was running - not much of a tunnel? Was there some kind of structure back there in 1963 that would qualify? Elrod?

Shortly after the assassination of the President, ELROD,

who had been about two and one half miles from the scene of the

assassination at Lemon and Oaklawn Streets in Dallas, was arrested by

the Dallas Police Department and placed in the City Jail. His arrest

had nothing to do with the assassination of the President.

Very curious. Too bad the woman's identity is unknown - could at least show her a photo of John Elrod, Malcolm Wallace and a few other folks.

Edit - anyone know if Elrod wore his hair long? The kind of car he was driving when he was arrested?

Edit #2 - this is itching. A buff colored Plymouth could match the description of the car parked in Lee Vida Whatley's space that morning. How does she know it was a Plymouth? What kind of car was she driving? Where exactly was she parked, and why would she be sitting in her car while the motorcade was passing? If she saw him run towards a tunnel under a road - is this the triple underpass? Could this then be the same man as seen by Jean Hill? How could the cops have given chase in a vehicle? Does the man running get into the Plymouth or keep running? How did she manage to learn the driver's name afterwards? What color was the running man's jacket? A dark grey sportscoat?

Was there another cop that resembled Tippit? What on earth would make her think Tippit was there?

Too many unknown variables here to work with - it's a shame we can't get more info.

- lee

Edited by Lee Forman
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