Missing Nix frames

[Robin Unger]

Robin, Frank may have to answer. I haven't reached that yet. Off hand it looks a composite of two frames where the limo is centered and the top frame is semitransparent.

Very nice second frame, is it from a complete set?

I have some more John.

They are frame grabs from one of Groden's DVD's

[John Dolva]

I wonder if you could post its 16 17 and 18, please?

[Ashton Gray]

Motorcycle cop already looking RIGHT at z-312

I found that, coupled with Frank Agbat's recent series, compelling enough to set up a view from that motorcycle cop in the 3D model. First, here is just a view hard right:

The (unfinished) back of the limo is in view at the bottom left, but without the Continental kit and chrome on the back yet it's next to invisible against the road in that image.

Then I swung the view approximating the direction you indicated in your image, which appears to be over JFK's head, and got this:

Although it's impossible to know what he was looking at, he appears to be looking straight in the direction of the three men on the knoll steps. Which all by itself makes a good deal of sense, if it were all by itself.

Something that still perplexes me is that by the time of the head shot, the motorcycle policemen seem almost oblivious to there being anything really wrong. On the other hand, the motorcycle policeman in your image could be looking at JFK, sensing there is something wrong.

Then again the idle stroll of the woman across the knoll right up to her sudden reaction at the head shot also is an anomaly to me—consistent with the apparent lack of concern by the motorcycle policemen or even the SS men right up to the moment of the head shot—that still is absorbing a considerable amount of my attention trying to reconcile with all the witness testimony of number of shots heard, and when.

I've wandered off. Sorry. But there's the cop's-eye view from the 3D model for what it's worth.

Ashton

[Robin Unger]

I wonder if you could post its 16 17 and 18, please?

John can you post some small sample frames and i will try to match them.

My frame grabs are not numbered !

[Robin Unger]

Ashton.

Yeh i must admit that the motorcycle cop could be focused an any number of thing and not just the limo.

[John Dolva]

OK, give me a while.

Meanwhile:

In aligning the M frames,

earlier I mentioned a possible change in M's location halfway through.

Based on this (image) it seems that the wider horizontal (white concrete) and the narrower street up to a certain point, is due to foreshortening as the lens is tilted down for those frames and then righted and the perspective that follows is the result of that shift.

This should be kept in mind when aligning these frames as errors may creep in otherwise. Also there is an ongoing foreshortening of the horizontal lines as the pan proceeds right to left. With this in mind one can compensate for these effects.

Edited December 26, 2006 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

preliminary

Unless I've made some serious mistake it seems that in the colored version, between frame 15 and 62 there should be 47 frames when aligning them and interpolating for the very blurred(and spliced) ones and where the wheel is behind M and H. Ie 62 is 63 and there should be 66 frames, not 65.

Robin, see this post.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=85638

Edited December 26, 2006 by John Dolva

[Bill Miller]

Something that still perplexes me is that by the time of the head shot, the motorcycle policemen seem almost oblivious to there being anything really wrong. On the other hand, the motorcycle policeman in your image could be looking at JFK, sensing there is something wrong.

Then again the idle stroll of the woman across the knoll right up to her sudden reaction at the head shot also is an anomaly to me—consistent with the apparent lack of concern by the motorcycle policemen or even the SS men right up to the moment of the head shot—that still is absorbing a considerable amount of my attention trying to reconcile with all the witness testimony of number of shots heard, and when.

Ashton, the woman you speak of is assassination witness Toni Foster. As far as anyone not knowing what was happening yet, in Altgen's 6 we can see Charles Brehm standing with arms raised in the air as he is clapping his hands, Yarborough is siting in the VP car and smiling, not to mention other witnesses who seemed to be oblivious to the first two shots. Even the people just behind Toni Foster are still walking towards Elm Street.

One question I have concerning your illustrations .... to have their views be accurate - one needs the demensions of the plaza and its reference points to be correct. What did you use in the way of data to insure the accuracy of your 3D model?

Bill Miller

[Frank Agbat]

Hi Robin,

Here is the original frame 42 as it appears on the DVD:

And the aligned version (the top and bottom halves were separately registered against the preceding frame):

And the version that appears in the animation:

Like I said -- I'm not an artist, so the retouch to get rid of the white area is admittedly amateurish. I also noted that there appears to be some warping in the lower half of the image, possibly due to heat, etc. The main purpose was to remove the white so that the eye isn't drawn away from the limo.

[Frank Agbat]

Ashton,

I agree that the word "report" might be a more accurate term. Without associated testimony, we're not certain to what the police are reacting. I don't like to be overly suspicious, but unless they gave a statement within a few minutes of the event, it is possible that their testimony may be less spontaneous and more rehearsed.

One of the reasons I found this interesting, however, is that they *do* look away from the limo and that two of them look, nearly simultaneously, in what appears to be nearly the exact same direction. To my eye, it looks as if they were preparing to take action.

[Frank Agbat]

Frame 42, from the Groden DVD's Black & White copy of the Muchmore film.

[Bill Miller]

One of the reasons I found this interesting, however, is that they *do* look away from the limo and that two of them look, nearly simultaneously, in what appears to be nearly the exact same direction. To my eye, it looks as if they were preparing to take action.

Maybe they saw Gordon Arnold diving to the ground and his movement caught their eye.

Bill Miller

[John Dolva]

No, they heard something over by the collonade. The southern outrider had the noises too mixed in to the smatter of three harleys between him and the shot.

____________

This needs confirmation:

Look at the MC helmets.

Here is outline of helmets in N40-N50. Because the MC brakes at 47 , the head first rocks forward then slows in relation to the outrider(blue). This is first a relative rear movement in 49.

The first Mm that shows this is M63.

M63 - N49- Z339 match point??

therefore,(at 18fps for M) M63 is Z339, IOW Z313 is M37-38.Which is confirmed by looking at the BW film where the shot is seen and the head movements before and after corresponds to Z. The colored version is doctored, perhaps inadvertently by going overboard with saturation, or deliberately for reasons not clear at this point.

Edited December 26, 2006 by John Dolva

[Frank Agbat]

No, they heard something over by the collonade. The southern outrider had the noises too mixed in to the smatter of three harleys between him and the shot.

____________

This needs confirmation:

Look at the MC helmets.

Here is outline of helmets in N40-N50. Because the MC brakes at 47 , the head first rocks forward then slows in relation to the outrider(blue). This is first a relative rear movement in 49.

The first Mm that shows this is M63.

M63 - N49- Z339 match point??

therefore,(at 18fps for M) M63 is Z339, IOW Z313 is M37-38.Which is confirmed by looking at the BW film where the shot is seen and the head movements before and after corresponds to Z. The colored version is doctored, perhaps inadvertently by going overboard with saturation, or deliberately for reasons not clear at this point.

John,

According to my table, N49 and Z339 are *very* close to one another: Nix precedes Zapruder by 0.0082705656 seconds. 8.27 milliseconds would be fairly hard to distinguish from "happening at the same time".

This brings back another headshot conundrum, though. Again, the first MM frame that shows splatter, at least to my eye, is M41. If that "matches" Z313 or even Z314, then the camera was shut off by the time Z339 arrives... That is, if the camera truly operates at 18fps, which is admittedly an assumption. I need to see what the numbers look like with different frame rates (notably, 16fps).

Most interesting...

[John Dolva]

Frank, I keep coming across reasons to think the headshot occurred around 36. The Mfilm is the first film I've looked at that have some very curious features that indicate real frame tampering.

For now, I think lets slow down and forget about fame rate and work out some indisputable anchor points? I've heard 16, 18.5, 18 fps suggested. 16 is interesting because when at that rate 17-287 and 63-339 works with HS at 40. Anyway, have you got a suggested anchor (apart from HS) ? Have you looked at M63 and the frames preceding, and compare to N49 and preceeding. The MC helmets and separation?