Missing Nix frames

[John Dolva]

Ok, so it's a meter or so to the right of Nix and a meter higher. The Parallax shift (both iin vertical and horizontal) is quite obvious.

This is going to prove most interesting as the trajectory lines can be used withiut regard for any particular point on the line.

We have three different views of the same line with the same point of origin.

What this means is that we can derive the exact direction that the fragment took. Then we can choose a particular point on that line shown by Z or Nix and say where that point would be from the opposing point of view and therefore get a timing of the various headshot frames.

So direction of fragments. Timing of frames.

Therefore we can work out exactly what the framerates are.

[Robin Unger]

This one should be very easy to sync. (Frank check out a.gif at FTP site). The hand movement that Jackie makes that fixes the Nix and Z are there. Also through the foliage one can see the guy running diagonally towards Altgen in Z.

a composite of all the Bronson gif frames. (image)

Bronson movie made using the full screen frames as i found them on the Discovery Channel DVD.

[Robin Unger]

The frames used in the Bronson movie above.

(4) Frames

Edited January 2, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

The frames used in the Bronson movie above.

More frames from the same movie.

[Robin Unger]

Toni Foster side step " Large Frame "

[Frank Agbat]

Toni Foster side step " Large Frame "

Robin,

Thank you for sharing the frames. The obvious side-effect is to note that there are obviously better quality versions of the film(s) out there than appear on the NFV/Groden DVD. Hopefully, my Discovery DVD will arrive quickly -- I'm eager to see the footage it contains.

[John Dolva]

M01 is very blurred.

However it contains a wealth of information.

It shows M in the process of moving her position. It's a snapshot of Limo speed and it is possibly a very good match point for Z-M sync.

The scale of the Limo has changed considerably in the following frames. The relative position, parallax, of various persons changes.

Speed- The blurs of stationary objects like the sign on the lamp post, and people are all of a fixed length and direction.

The blurs of the Limo are all in a different direction and length. However, put side by side one can see that the vertical height of the blurs is the same. This means that during the exposure of the frame, while the camera moved in one way, indicated by the stationary bject blurs, the limo moved as well, and the relative movement shown by this blur difference is the factor that can be used to derive the limospeed at this frame.

Right at the top right of the farme one sees the base of Zaps pedestal with the eastern shadow on the lamp post in front of it. On the farleft top is the lower slice of the hedge below the end of the wall.

This places (from Z's perspective) M behind the lamp on top of the lamp post.

Jackies position is clearly seen. This means that this frame is about Z270-271.

Frank, if this is so, then there are two match points at opposite ends of the M film that overlap into the Z-N sync. This should then give a M framerate.

Edited January 6, 2007 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

1.78 feet in 1/40 th of a second.

38.22 feet in one second.

26.05 mph

This once again brings up an unresolved problem that I contionually came across when working out how to derive object speed from blur differences last year. The worked out speed is twice what it should be.

Because it is so regularly double, this could be a very useful techynique if only the doubling is resolved.

Exactly how long is the shutter open on the various cameras?

[John Dolva]

N-46 is M-64

N-35 is Z-325

M-01 is Z-270

M-64 is Z-336

ie 66 Z frames for 63 M-frames

3.6065 seconds for 63 M-frames

17.4681 fps for M-camera

Interestingly this is about the rate of the fully wound Z-camera. So if right calculations, she must have fully wound her camera before starting filming this sequence.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Toni Foster side step " Large Frame "

Thanks Robin;

Now that most of the pertinent photo information is out, perhaps one should evaluate the actions of the "Running Man", as he does "rise" to the occassion when he first steps onto the back bumper of the Presidential Limo.

[Robin Unger]

1.78 feet in 1/40 th of a second.

38.22 feet in one second.

26.05 mph

This once again brings up an unresolved problem that I contionually came across when working out how to derive object speed from blur differences last year. The worked out speed is twice what it should be.

Because it is so regularly double, this could be a very useful techynique if only the doubling is resolved.

Exactly how long is the shutter open on the various cameras?

From another thread posted by Bill Miller re: Muchmore film on Discovery Channel DVD.

quote:

Here is some information that Gary Mack was kind enough to share with me when I discussed this particular Muchmore print ...........

http://www.aparchive.com/aparchive/pages/p...news/ln_jfk.htm

The work was done on an "Archangel" machine (not a Spirit as I told you) in England, then converted to US broadcast standards. The conversion introduced visual artifacts and it was also transferred at the wrong speed. The "restored" version runs much faster than normal. Slowing down the tape introduces even more confusing visual artifacts.

Gary Mack

Edited January 6, 2007 by Robin Unger

[John Dolva]

Robin, I'm referring to the limo speed as derived from the blur in M01. Not the set frame rate of any clip. IOW change in limo location. It could be from any frame in any film that has a lot of blur like this. The error of doubling comes whether it's from a single photograph or a film frame.

[Robin Unger]

Robin, I'm referring to the limo speed as derived from the blur in M01. Not the set frame rate of any clip. IOW change in limo location. It could be from any frame in any film that has a lot of blur like this. The error of doubling comes whether it's from a single photograph or a film frame.

No problem John.

My error

Please continue with your study, i can't follow some of the more technical aspects, but i do find it very interesting none the less.

I was never any good at maths or graphes when i was a kid, now i am 53 and nothing has changed.

[Frank Agbat]

Muchmore-Zapruder theoretical sync point to consider:

M21 = Z291

I'll try to post a graphic when I'm not so bloody tired. However, I'll describe the logic:

Observe Jackie's head movements. Prior to 291, she is in the same position for a while, ostensibly observing/listening to JBC. At Z-290 she begins to return her attention to JFK and begins a three-frame head movement that starts in Z290 and runs until 292. She then pauses for a frame, and then continues her motion through to frame 297 where she has completed her move.

In Muchmore, the head movement prior to MM 15 or so is a bit hard to track due to camera motion and blurry frames. However, MM-17 gives a decent landmark, as does MM-19 -- and not much change is observed. However, MM20 begins a three-frame motion, followed by a one-frame pause in head motion. Unfortunately, the rest of the head motion is obscured until she clears the Babushka lady in MM-28 - after which it is stable.

So, two possible sync points are:

MM21 = Z291 (midpoint of the move)

or

Z293 = MM23 (the pause in the motion).

[Ashton Gray]

1.78 feet in 1/40 th of a second.

38.22 feet in one second.

26.05 mph

This once again brings up an unresolved problem that I contionually came across when working out how to derive object speed from blur differences last year. The worked out speed is twice what it should be.

Because it is so regularly double, this could be a very useful techynique if only the doubling is resolved.

Exactly how long is the shutter open on the various cameras?

I don't know what formula you're using for your computation but I read the following in a photo forum: Most 35mm and 16mm motion picture cameras use a 180 degree shutter and at 24 frames per second this becomes a 1/48th sec exposure for each frame.

Would that account at all for the factor of 2 (or .5)?

Found these forumulas at this web site if they will be of any help:

((frames per second) * (shutter speed as measured in a fraction of a second))*360 = Shutter size in degrees

or

1/((Shutter size, in decimals)/fps) = whole number shutter speed, expressed as a fraction of a second.

EXAMPLES:

The manual says a new, "low light" camera has a 220 degree shutter and offers 9, 18, and 24 fps. What are the shutter speeds?

1/((220/360)/(9))=15(th of a second)~1/15th

1/((220/360)/(18))=29.5(th of a second)~1/30th

1/((220/360)/(24))=39.3(th of a second)~1/40th

A camera claims to have a 180 degree shutter and frame rates of 18, 24, and 54. What are the shutter speeds?

1/((180/360)/18)=~1/36th of a second (use either 1/30th or 1/40th)

1/((180/360)/24)=~1/48th of a second (use 1/50th)

1/((180/360)/54)=~1/108th of a second (use 1/100th)

Ashton

Edited January 9, 2007 by Ashton Gray