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'UFO' connections to the JFK Assassination


Lee Forman
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Not looking to be cute here - just trying to make some connections and hopefully shed some light on a few things. List names associated with the JFK assassination that resonate with UFO related phenomenon, and consider roles and connections. As a given, let's assume that there is no such thing as aliens from other planets - only Nazi scientists, military programs created and funded by the top authorities in the Third Reich, and programs like Paperclip and others which involved a lot of high ranking US intel, and set about removing said technology and documentation to the US for 'exploitation.'

Philip Corso, associate of Charles Willoughby [Adolf Tscheppe-Weidenbach], was clearly instrumental in his role as a disinfo agent. Among other things, he is of course well known for his book on UFOs.

From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com>

Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:37:45 -0500

Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:33:47 -0500

Subject: Philip J. Corso

The following might be of interest to proponents of Roswell, and those

awaiting Corso's forthcoming book on this topic.

"After the assassination [JFK], Frank Capell was active in disseminating

conspiratorial "phase one" stories linking Oswald to Russia and Ruby to

Castro's Cuba (20 WH 75, 26 WH 608), some of them apparently from

intelligence sources such as Carlos Bringuier's colleagues in the DRE (26

WH 610). Capell was not acting alone: "phase one" stories linking Oswald

and Ruby to Communists were circulated by Willoughby's associates PHILIP J.

CORSO, a veteran of Army Intelligence who had retired by 1963 to work for

the segregationist Senator Strom Thurmond, and Cuban exile Salvador Diaz

Verson, a former chief of Cuban military intelligence.

Corso, the army intelligence veteran, was like Willoughby a foe of the CIA

from the right, having tangled with the Agency in his years under C. D.

Jackson as a member of Eisenhower's Operations Control Board. In 1963-64

Corso and Willoughby were part of a secret rightwing group, the

"Shickshinny Knights of Malta" (so called after their headquarters in

Shickshinny, Pennsylvania, to distinguish them from the more famous Roman

Catholic Sovereign Military Order of Malta based in Rome). The group

provided a home to dissident retired military officers dissatisfied with

the CIA's internationalism, many of them, like Willoughby and General

Bonner Fellers, veterans of the old Hunt-MacArthur-Pawley coalition in the

early 1950s. By 1963 the group's leading asset in their anti-CIA propaganda

was a Polish intelligence defector, Michael Goleniewski, who had claimed to

audiences inside and outside the CIA that the Agency penetrated by the KGB

at a high level.

Corso built on this anti-CIA paranoia by telling his friend and fellow

Senate staffer Julien Sourwine, who made sure it was relayed to the FBI,

that Oswald was tied to a Communist ring inside the CIA, and was doubling

as an informant for the FBI. Shickshinny Knight Herman Kimsey, who claimed

to have been Goleniewski's handler inside the CIA, also spun an elaborate

story about how his CIA duties had put him in touch with Kennedy's assassin

- the mystery man in Mexico. Finally, the chief press contact of the

Shickshinny Knights, Guy Richards of the New York Journal-American,

published the claim (soon taken up by Frank Coppel, by the John Birch

Society, and by Willoughby's American Security Council) that Oswald, like

another alleged KGB assassin (Bogdan Stashynsky), had been trained at a KGB

assassination school in Minsk.

Willoughby was in auspicious company, for the Shickshinny Knights had an

"Armed Services Committee" that in 1963 read like a Who's Who of retired

military men at the extremist fringe. All these "Knights" had been "singled

out for their brilliant and outstanding careers as Soldiers of Christ and

Advocates of a Free World". Besides Willoughby, they included a number of

other members of MacArthur's old team - Brigadier General Bonner Fellers,

Lt. General Pedro del Valle, Marine General Lemuel Shepherd. British

Admiral Sir Barry Domville, jailed in England during World War Two as a

Nazi agent, was also on the list.

So was Colonel Philip J. Corso, a twenty-year Army Intelligence career man

until his retirement in August 1963. He had been the military Operations

Coordinating Board's delegate to the CIA group planning the 1954 Guatemalan

coup. In 1956 Corso had sought to reactivate fifty surviving garrisons of

East European paramilitary units still hanging on in West Germany and tied

to the Gehlen spy network. When his Volunteer Freedom Corps, dedicated to

rolling back communism, was scuttled as too radical by the Eisenhower

administration, Corso attributed the defeat to "lies by our liberal

darlings". A staunch foe of what he considered a laissez-faire CIA, Corso

testified before Congress on "military muzzling" after General Walker was

kicked out of West Germany in 1961. Upon leaving the Army Intelligence,

Corso went to work in 1963 as a "research assistant" for segregationist

senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina. And, after the Kennedy's

assassination, Corso was among the first to spread rumors hinting that

Oswald was tied to a Communist ring inside the CIA - and doubling as an

informant for the FBI. Corso once sued the liberal columnist Drew Pearson

for defamation - writing about Corso's extremist activities.

It would be extremely unwise for UFO community researchers to accept

Corso's version of the Roswell incident without asking some serious

questions on Corso's real intent for such a publication

Armen Victorian

Guy Bannister

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=190

There is yet another connection between these early UFO events and Kennedy’s murderers. Another man involved with UFO reports in the Pacific Northwest during that period was Guy Bannister, the same Guy Bannister who rented office space in the same building as Lee Harvey Oswald when Oswald was running his Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

Levenda goes on to make more bizarre connections, that make it irrevocably clear that two men who were deeply involved in UFO matters in 1947 were also involved, although less obviously, in the complex human disaster that was the Kennedy assassination.

Jack Martin

http://sinisterforces.info/blog/index.php?...es/2005/09.html

Jack S. Martin was born in Phoenix, Arizona on July 1, 1915, but his name at the time was Edward Stewart Suggs. Like Carl Stanley, he eventually developed an arrest record and had served in the US Army during World War II. He became a back-alley abortionist in Houston, Texas after the war and had to flee the state when one of “Dr Suggs’s” patients died as a result of his medical incompetence. The resulting murder charge was later dismissed, however, and Suggs eventually wound up in New Orleans (about 1954) where he became John Stewart Martin, Sr. or, simply, Jack Martin or Jack S. Martin.

Jack Martin is a pretty common name, so perhaps we should not be surprised to see a Special Agent Jack S. Martin appearing on Project Blue Book documents dating back to 1949, years before Edward Suggs changed his name (as far as we know). This particular Jack S. Martin was in California at the same time as our Ed Suggs, but was working for the OSI, or Office of Special Investigations, a department of the US Air Force. This is shown by OSI documents from October 1949 in which S/A Jack S. Martin was investigating UFO sightings in northern California by an Edward W. Gurband, a Roy Oliver Neely, and a Reverend Curtis Daniels that had taken place on August 1, 1949 in the San Francisco area. Our Jack S. Martin, however, is not known to have changed his name that early and, besides, there is no evidence at all that he ever worked for the Air Force. However, just to be devil’s advocate for a moment, there was no US Air Force during World War II; it was known as the Army Air Corps then, so it is possible – just barely possible – that Suggs/Martin did work for the Army Air Corps as an enlisted man or even as military police, but I have been unable to find Suggs’ military record to confirm or deny this possibility. I just leave it here as an unresolved issue. It would be amusing (if not a little unnerving) to discover that both Guy Banister and Jack Martin were investigating UFOs for the government at the same time, though!

Martin is a common name - as per the author, not clear if this is Suggs, or another Martin - possibly the JS Martin that lived in Dallas in Oak Cliff in 1963, who appears to have been connected with Larrie Schmidt in some manner.

Fred Crisman

Fred Crisman (July 22, 1920 - December 10, 1975) was a writer, educator, minor political provocateur, broadcaster and self-described "disruption agent" from Tacoma, Washington. He is a bizarre and enigmatic figure, whose name pops up in unusual circumstances, paranormal events, and conspiracies in the middle decades of the 20th century.

[edit] Shaver Mystery

In the mid-1940s, his name appears in the pages of pulp magazines, reporting on his own Shaver Mystery experiences via letters to the editor, warning of the threat from subterranean-dwelling "Deros," or "detrimental robots." He claimed to have encountered the beings while fighting as a commando in Burma during World War II, and wrote that he sustained injuries from a futuristic laser weapon.

[edit] Maury Island Incident

His name next pops up as a key player in the strange Maury Island Incident, an early UFO encounter. Crisman claimed to have seen the objects in question, and to have collected debris. Many UFO researchers have dismissed the incident as an outright hoax, likely perpetrated by Crisman, but others still believe the incident to be a genuine paranormal event.

[edit] Murder of a City, Tacoma

He next turns up in Tacoma in the late 1960s, railing against the city's city manager form of government. He hosted a conspiracy-themed radio talk show under the pseudonym "Jon Gold," and wrote a self-published book, The Murder of a City, Tacoma. He was also appointed by the mayor to serve on the Tacoma Public Library board.

[edit] John F. Kennedy Assassination

During this time period, he was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison to testify in the case against Clay Shaw in the John F. Kennedy assassination. When Shaw was arrested, apparently Crisman was the first person he called. Various conspiracy theories place Crisman on the grassy knoll, possibly as a radio operator, or as one of the three tramps taken in to custody near Dealey Plaza. His Grand Jury testimony is now public, and in Murder of a City, Tacoma, Crisman claimed no knowledge of a conspiracy, and he was not called as a witness in the actual trial. Documents related that indicate a Crisman link to the assassination may have been fabricated by Crisman himself, as they are written in an idiosyncratic style reminiscent of Crisman's own.

Gordon Cooper

Not sure that Cooper has a connection to the JFK thing, necessarily. Cooper was an astronaut with Project Mercury. He claimed to have seen UFOs flying over West Germany in 1951. Cooper was with NASA. Cooper was also the one that revealed that many children had been used for MKULTRA type experiments by NASA, known as the 'Space Kids.' That despite what Helms said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Cooper

Cooper had a fascination with pseudoscience. Among other things, Cooper alleged that the U.S. government was covering up information about UFOs. Cooper claimed to have seen his first UFO while in West Germany in 1951 [2] and wrote in his memoirs that he had seen other unexplained aircraft several times during his career. Cooper also stated that there were hundreds of reports made by other pilots, many coming from military jet pilots sent to respond to radar or visual sightings from the ground. [3] [4]He was quite convinced until the day he died that he had seen UFOs. [3]

Interesting interview with Jim Marrs:

http://www.rense.com/general/enchilada.htm

--What do you make of the theory that Kennedy was assassinated because he intended to release information on the UFO phenomenon?

I have come across a lot of evidence to support this. For example, there is a 1962 CIA document that records the contents of a wire-tapped conversation between Marilyn Monroe and Hollywood reporter Dorothy Kilgallen two days before Monroe died. During the call, Monroe tells Kilgallen that JFK had told her of his visit to a secret air base where he viewed things from outer space. Kilgallen believed this was connected with the Roswell crash.

Certainly, an FBI document of July 1947 confirms that Kennedy knew about Roswell. Additionally, Bill Holden, it steward on board Air Fore one, reported a conversation that he had with Kennedy in 1963, in which he asked the President what he thought about UFOs. Kennedy became very serious and replied `I would like to tell the public about the UFO situation, but my hands are tied.'

However, there is evidence that, on 12 November 1963, Kennedy ordered the CIA to hand over all UFO documents to the White House, and this was two weeks before he was shot.

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UFOs and Robertson Panel

In 1951 the US Air Force revitalized Project Grudge, a program investigating UFOs between 1948-1949. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt ran the program and recommended that the Battelle Memorial Institute, a Columbus, Ohio think tank, do a statistical analysis of existing UFO reports. The think tank released its report in late 1953. Before the final Battelle report was ready however, the CIA became interested in the UFO issue as a national security (not scientific issue) and arranged to have a secret official committee, the Robertson Panel, look into the compiled UFO data.

The Robertson Panel began in January 1953, and met for a total of twelve hours, studying twenty-three alleged UFO sighting cases. The CIA concluded that UFOs presented little or no interesting scientific data and were only a threat to the United States if sighting reports clogged communications facilities (as had happened in the Washington DC sighting in July 1952) and created a climate of fear among the population which the enemy could exploit before launching an attack. The Robertson Panel therefore suggested, first, an active campaign of public education, perhaps using TV and radio celebrities and the services of Walt Disney Productions. Second the Robertson Panel suggested an active debunking (ridiculing) of sightings in order to de-mystify UFOs in the public mind. Implicit in this education campaign was increased air force secrecy about sighting reports so as not to support public interest. The committee also recommended covert surveillance of civilian UFO groups, in order to monitor those who would promote public interest in UFOs.

The recommendations of the Robertson Panel were implemented by a series of special military regulations. Joint-Army-Navy-Air Force Publication 147 (JANAP 146) of December 1953 made reprinting of any UFO sighting to the public a crime under the Espionage Act, with fines of up to ten thousand dollars and imprisonment ranging from one to ten years. This act was considered binding on all who knew of the act's existence, including commercial airline pilots. A 1954 revision of Air Force Regulation 200-2 (AFR 200-2) made all sighting reports submitted to the air force classified material and prohibited the release of any information about UFO sightings unless the sighting was able to be positively identified. In February 1958 a revision of AFR 200-2 allowed the military to give the FBI the names of people who were "illegally or deceptively bringing the subject [of UFOs] to public attention". Because of the Robertson Panel the air force's Project Blue Book's procedures of investigating UFOs also changed, attempting to find a quick explanation and then file them away. Project Blue Book was a successor of Project Grudge.

In 1956 retired marine Major Donald Keyhoe founded the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), a UFO investigations organization. By 1969 Keyhoe turned his focus away from the military and focused on the CIA as the source of the UFO cover up. NICAP's board, headed by Colonel Jospeph Bryan III, forced Keyhoe to retire as NICAP chief. Bryan was actually a former covert CIA agent who had served the agency as founder and head of its psychological warfare division. Under Bryan's leadership, the NICAP disbanded its local and state affiliate groups, and by 1973 it had been completely closed.

After the Freedom of Information Act was made law in 1974, Ufologists involved in making FOIA requests reported that more than nine hundred pages of information released for the CIA indicated that the organization was collecting and analyzing sighting reports from as early as 1949. In 1997 the CIA came forward to admit its historical interest in UFOs..

I wonder if it's possible to document and track the movement of the technology, Geographically, on the basis of these 'sightings' and the disinfo campaigns. Also curious to know if anything similar to the V2 was employed in terms of the project - multiple simultaneous designs by different designers - hence the development in many different locations here in the States.

CIA Website material on the matter:

https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclass/ufo.html

Mounting reports of UFOs over eastern Europe and Afghanistan also prompted concern that the Soviets were making rapid progress in this area. CIA officials knew that the British and Canadians were already experimenting with "flying saucers." Project Y was a Canadian-British-US developmental operation to produce a nonconventional flying-saucer-type aircraft, and Agency officials feared the Soviets were testing similar devices. (41)

Interesting. Why wouldn't they be making progress? The old Bob Hope joke - who got the best Nazis out of the deal. Quite a bit of facinating hat and rabbit tricks were being done as the US withdrew from what was to be the Soviet occupied territory. We managed to get as much as possible - couldn't have managed to get all of it.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/EyesEars_B_CS.html

"The Gehlen Organization was the one group that did have networks inside Eastern Europe, and that is why we hired them," international affairs expert Arthur Macy Cox says. "[but] hiring Gehlen was the biggest mistake the U.S. ever made. Our allies said, 'You are putting Nazis at the senior levels of your intelligence,' and they were right. It discredited the United States." According to Cox, the Gehlen Organization was the primary source of intelligence that claimed that "the Soviets were about to attack [West] Germany.... [That was] the biggest bunch of baloney then, and it is still a bunch of baloney today."

- lee

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http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:9bSYO...=clnk&cd=27
UFOs and Robertson Panel

In 1951 the US Air Force revitalized Project Grudge, a program investigating UFOs between 1948-1949. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt ran the program and recommended that the Battelle Memorial Institute, a Columbus, Ohio think tank, do a statistical analysis of existing UFO reports. The think tank released its report in late 1953. Before the final Battelle report was ready however, the CIA became interested in the UFO issue as a national security (not scientific issue) and arranged to have a secret official committee, the Robertson Panel, look into the compiled UFO data.

The Robertson Panel began in January 1953, and met for a total of twelve hours, studying twenty-three alleged UFO sighting cases. The CIA concluded that UFOs presented little or no interesting scientific data and were only a threat to the United States if sighting reports clogged communications facilities (as had happened in the Washington DC sighting in July 1952) and created a climate of fear among the population which the enemy could exploit before launching an attack. The Robertson Panel therefore suggested, first, an active campaign of public education, perhaps using TV and radio celebrities and the services of Walt Disney Productions. Second the Robertson Panel suggested an active debunking (ridiculing) of sightings in order to de-mystify UFOs in the public mind. Implicit in this education campaign was increased air force secrecy about sighting reports so as not to support public interest. The committee also recommended covert surveillance of civilian UFO groups, in order to monitor those who would promote public interest in UFOs.

The recommendations of the Robertson Panel were implemented by a series of special military regulations. Joint-Army-Navy-Air Force Publication 147 (JANAP 146) of December 1953 made reprinting of any UFO sighting to the public a crime under the Espionage Act, with fines of up to ten thousand dollars and imprisonment ranging from one to ten years. This act was considered binding on all who knew of the act's existence, including commercial airline pilots. A 1954 revision of Air Force Regulation 200-2 (AFR 200-2) made all sighting reports submitted to the air force classified material and prohibited the release of any information about UFO sightings unless the sighting was able to be positively identified. In February 1958 a revision of AFR 200-2 allowed the military to give the FBI the names of people who were "illegally or deceptively bringing the subject [of UFOs] to public attention". Because of the Robertson Panel the air force's Project Blue Book's procedures of investigating UFOs also changed, attempting to find a quick explanation and then file them away. Project Blue Book was a successor of Project Grudge.

In 1956 retired marine Major Donald Keyhoe founded the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), a UFO investigations organization. By 1969 Keyhoe turned his focus away from the military and focused on the CIA as the source of the UFO cover up. NICAP's board, headed by Colonel Jospeph Bryan III, forced Keyhoe to retire as NICAP chief. Bryan was actually a former covert CIA agent who had served the agency as founder and head of its psychological warfare division. Under Bryan's leadership, the NICAP disbanded its local and state affiliate groups, and by 1973 it had been completely closed.

After the Freedom of Information Act was made law in 1974, Ufologists involved in making FOIA requests reported that more than nine hundred pages of information released for the CIA indicated that the organization was collecting and analyzing sighting reports from as early as 1949. In 1997 the CIA came forward to admit its historical interest in UFOs..

I wonder if it's possible to document and track the movement of the technology, Geographically, on the basis of these 'sightings' and the disinfo campaigns. Also curious to know if anything similar to the V2 was employed in terms of the project - multiple simultaneous designs by different designers - hence the development in many different locations here in the States.

CIA Website material on the matter:

https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclass/ufo.html

Mounting reports of UFOs over eastern Europe and Afghanistan also prompted concern that the Soviets were making rapid progress in this area. CIA officials knew that the British and Canadians were already experimenting with "flying saucers." Project Y was a Canadian-British-US developmental operation to produce a nonconventional flying-saucer-type aircraft, and Agency officials feared the Soviets were testing similar devices. (41)

Interesting. Why wouldn't they be making progress? The old Bob Hope joke - who got the best Nazis out of the deal. Quite a bit of facinating hat and rabbit tricks were being done as the US withdrew from what was to be the Soviet occupied territory. We managed to get as much as possible - couldn't have managed to get all of it.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/EyesEars_B_CS.html

"The Gehlen Organization was the one group that did have networks inside Eastern Europe, and that is why we hired them," international affairs expert Arthur Macy Cox says. "[but] hiring Gehlen was the biggest mistake the U.S. ever made. Our allies said, 'You are putting Nazis at the senior levels of your intelligence,' and they were right. It discredited the United States." According to Cox, the Gehlen Organization was the primary source of intelligence that claimed that "the Soviets were about to attack [West] Germany.... [That was] the biggest bunch of baloney then, and it is still a bunch of baloney today."

- lee

**********************************************************

I'm not sure how much of this is on the level, but I came across this, yesterday.

Recap

Aerial Revelations

John Lear, a Lockheed L-1011 Captain, known for his revelations about aerial phenomena and UFOs, caught up with Art for the full 4-hour broadcast.

Related Articles

John Lear's Disclosure Briefing

As presented on the 11/2/03 show:

Art Bell: Let's say the government chose me. They were going to use me as an outlet to release this information. Let's just say they did that and they took me to a briefing. Then what John?

John Lear: They whisk you to Washington, DC, you get limo-ed to this building, beautiful building, you go up into this room. They say, 'Art, you're the guy and if you give us the go ahead, we are gonna release everything we know to the public. If you decide to go ahead, all major networks will be provided with information on all aspects of the cover up and no type of information will be withheld. Because of the deal for immunity for all participants of the cover up provides that nothing, no artifacts, no piece of information be withheld.'

So here's what happened, Art. We'll use some videos and stills. Our first UFO recoveries were in the late '30s. We made a couple in the beginning of the '40s and then came Roswell, which the public found out about. We got 2 live aliens from Roswell. One died shortly there after and one lived till 1956. And we found out so far there are 18 different alien species that we know about monitoring Earth. Some are good and some are hostile, most are indifferent. We found out that we are the experimental product, if you will, of an alien race who we never met and we don't know who they are. All we know is that the Greys are cybernetic organisms, glorified robots if you will, who work here at the behest of their employers monitoring us through abductions. We were never able to find out what the experiment is all about except that we have been externally corrected about 65 times. And they, the aliens, refer to us as "Containers." There's been speculation that the souls our bodies contain is the reason for the experiments. But nothing's been proven or determined.

Since 1938 we've lost over 200 aircraft due to UFO hostilities and thousands of soldiers in all kinds of different actions with aliens. Since that time several hundred thousand civilians have disappeared with no trace. Several thousand of those were eliminated by us because of their chance encounters with the aliens which we could ill afford to have publicized.

A slightly more frightening phenomena known as "human mutilations" have occurred on a regular basis and are similar to "cattle mutilations". In that the human or humans are taken from the street, so to speak, and returned to the same area about 45 minutes to an hour later with their rectums cored out, their genitals removed, eyes removed from their sockets, and completely drained of blood. In all cases it appeared that the mutilation procedures occurred while the persons were still alive and conscious. One of our scientists speculates that apparently the human specimens had to be alive for the samples to be worth anything. Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least 10% of the population.

When we were first made aware this we protested to the little grey being we had held in captivity at the YY-2 facility in Los Alamos, but a deal was struck that in exchange for advanced technology from the aliens we would allow them to abduct a very small number of persons and we would periodically be given a list of those persons abducted. We got something less than the technology we bargained for and found the abductions exceeded by a million fold than what we had naively agreed to.

In 1954, President Eisenhower met with a representative of another alien species at Muroc Test Center, which is now called Edwards Airforce Base. This alien suggested that they could help us get rid of the Greys but Eisenhower turned down their offer because they offered no technology.

At this point it became apparent to all involved that there was no such thing as a God, at least how the public perceives God. Certainly some form of computer recorder stores information and an occasional miracle is displayed by the aliens to influence a religious event. This so unnerved Eisenhower that he had "In God We Trust" put on paper money and coins and put in the Pledge of Allegiance to reaffirm the public belief in God. Shortly after this it was determined in meetings between the US and the Russians that the situation was serious enough that a cold war should be manufactured as a ruse to divert attention of the public away from UFOs towards some other scary threat like the H-bomb. It was also decided to keep the ruse secret from any elected or appointed officials within both the US and Russian governments as it took so long to vet these officials and the ruse was easier to manage if the top people didn't know about it.

In the late 1950's NASA was formed to compartmentalize, containerize, and sanitize information from all space platforms and vehicles. We sold NASA to the public claiming that all information would belong to them but they got very little and even that was highly sanitized.

Our first efforts were to keep the public from learning about Venus. A very similar planet to Earth and it's population is very similar to us just technologically advanced. We have learned a lot from them starting with the Russian Venera 1 and US Mariner 2, we made Venus look like a lead melting, volcanic surface, spewing sulfuric acid into a pressurized atmosphere 90 times that of Earth. And as often the case we over did it and we wondered why nobody asked how a parachute survived a descent into 800-degree air. We set up operations in Pine Gap, Australia to preclude any prying eyes figuring out what we were up to. We regularly eliminated through extreme prejudice anybody who was part of the operation and made the least little tiny threat about disclosure or dissatisfaction with the operation. Any space mission that included Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Mariner, Voyager, Clementine, and all the rest. All data initially came transmitted to Pine Gap then it was relayed to JPL or wherever after sanitizing. We had a little trouble with amateur radio operators but we figured out how they could intercept these signals but we managed to deal with that.

When the Russian threat began to fade we introduced Vietnam which kept the public occupied for over ten years. The cover up and personnel to run the operation began to get bigger and bigger and required more and more money. We were forced to inflate the defense budget, which soon not enough. Then we got into the drug business which was still not enough. We were the ones that looted the savings and loan industry and Wall Street to boot. It is so out of control now most people want immunity and want out. But there is so much secrecy and so many double and triple blinds in place that it's unlikely that this thing can ever be dismantled. And even if you give us the go ahead to spill the beans to the public it's unlikely they will get anything more than "yes, we recovered a flying saucer and yes, there was an occupant" but that's all we're gonna tell ya.

So go ahead and roll the tape for Mr. Bell. What you see here are what human mutilations look like. That one was a male about 27 years old. That one is film of dead aliens being pulled from the wreckage of a craft that crashed in Olancha, California in the '50s. That craft you see over there was over 250ft. in diameter and had to be buried on the spot. That site is in Utah near Dugway Proving Grounds. The object you're looking at now is the as the Kecksburg Acorn which was brought to Wright Patt in the middle '60s. There's Frank Drake trying to force information out of a being tied down to a stretcher. He was supposedly from Tao Ceti.

These pictures you're looking at now are structures on the Moon. That's the tower in Sinus Medii and it's over seven miles tall. And that thing over there is what we call the Colossus of Oguram(sp) in Mare Crisium. We don't know what it does but the machine itself is bigger than Brooklyn, New York. Now those are videos of the domes covering the craters. As you can see, some are in a very advanced state of decay.

These are 5 second slides of the 18 different alien species we are looking at. That one there is the most gruesome looking. The guards at one facility are carefully indoctrinated over several months being shown pictures similar to but not exactly like the alien. Only when he'd been acclimatized, so to speak, of the horrible looking beings are they allowed to stand in security positions. Before these acclimatizations were done, we had two guards die of a heart attack as the aliens came down the hallway unexpectedly.

And this last clip is of the Kennedy assassination. You've heard of the second gunman theory? Well, this is the second camera that recorded exactly what happened and we had 4 gunmen. And the bottom line was that Kennedy had to go. He insisted on releasing what little alien information we had told him about and he was trying to withdraw troops from Vietnam which we were using as a diversion for the public. After Kennedy we never told any President anything. Nixon knew because he was briefed as VP in 1952. That's how we knew where to take Jackie Gleason to Homestead Air Force Base to see the alien bodies we had in storage there.[Nixon and Gleason were neighbors and buddies at the time, in Florida. My emphasis, here. TM]

And that's about it. What say you Art Bell? Do we brief the public? Yay or nay?"

--Special thanks to "Spaceprophet" of Fantastic Forum who provided this transcription.

Here are the web links that John Lear provided in support of his data:

projectredstar.com

Project Grudge/Bluebook 13

rumormillnews.com

vgl.org

keithlaney.com

lunaranomalies.com

astrosurf.com

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The thing is Terry, it's my distinct impression that there is a correlation between some very high tech stuff, some very sophisticate mind control technology, and the NAZI culture. I still think I was mistaken about it all beginning with Paperclip. We had plenty of these occult practicing NAZI types over here [Eugenics, Banking, Business and family connections back to the Fatherland]. And I do not mean to say that Paperclip was bad - I am sure that we saved a lot of good people, and I agree that we couldn't allow it to fall into the hands of the Soviets - however, some were not good people, and they brought all their Atlantean voodoo and Satanic ritual stuff, channeling, genetic breeding and all this weird baggage that seems to have been allowed to proliferate over here.

I have been doing a bit here and there to understand the NAZI culture - I don't think people get it - it wasn't as simple as trying to create a master race, or eliminating certain unwanted genetic traits - it went pretty far beyond that. Himmler was something of a madman - however, there may have been a method to his madness - reluctant to post more on that.

As to 'aliens' - nothing that a good dose of sauce, some hypnotism and a few actors in funny looking costumes couldn't produce - with long lasting effects. The disc technology went on to possibly produce the U2. 'Swept' wing technology is standard today. Considering the distinct possibility of sabotage of the U2 project - you would have to imagine that bigger and better things were made available to replace it. The discs of the 1940s appear to have been fairly rudimentary. Tin and rivets.

I was recently reading about the Philadelphia Experiment. It's almost impossible to make out what really transpired. Interestingly enough, one author [who as an aside has a Paperclipped Nazi as being firmly involved with the project - I posted on that elsewhere] had three different variations. They were interesting. The second one came almost as a paragraph. Some testing was being done - Einstein and Tesla were present. A UFO crashed into one of the ships in front of everyone - people were hurt. The crew of the SS Andrew Furuseth - were all given mandatory psych evals. No clue what the truth is about this experiment - it's as hosed as the JFK assassination with myths, lies and BS.

Morris Jessup and Carlos Miguel Allende

In 1955, Morris K. Jessup, an amateur astronomer and former graduate-level researcher, published The Case for the UFO, an examination of the phenomenon of UFOs which contained some theorizing about the means of propulsion that flying-saucer-style UFOs might use. Jessup speculated that anti-gravity and/or electromagnetism may have been responsible for the observed flight behavior of UFOs. He lamented, both in the book and the publicity tour which followed, that space flight research was concentrated in the area of rocketry, and that little attention was paid to these other theoretical means of flight, which he felt would ultimately be more fruitful.

On January 13, 1955, Jessup received a letter from a man identifying himself as Carlos Miguel Allende. In the letter, Allende informed Jessup of the Philadelphia Experiment, alluding to poorly sourced contemporary newspaper articles as proof. Allende also said that he had witnessed the Eldridge disappear and reappear while serving aboard a merchant marine ship in its vicinity, the SS Andrew Furuseth. He further named other crew with which he served aboard the Andrew Furuseth, and claimed to know of the fates of some of the crew members of the Eldridge after the experiment, including one whom he witnessed disappear during a chaotic fight in a bar. Jessup replied to Allende by postcard, asking for further evidence and corroboration for the story, such as dates and specific details of his fantastic story.

The reply came months later; however, this time the correspondent identified himself as Carl M Allen. Allen said that he could not provide the details for which Jessup was asking, but implied that he might be able to recall by means of hypnosis. Jessup decided to discontinue the correspondence.

.

I would like to know anything anyone has on a JS Martin of Oak Cliff, Texas, who lived there in 1963. He may provide some more links and answers.

No one seems to have done much by way of figuring out the link between NASA and Reilly Coffee either. Why?

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Lee,

Thanks for starting this thread. If memory serves me, Robert Howard made some comments about UFOs and the intelligence community several months ago, but the thread never got developed. His post, however, encouraged me to buy and read Maury Island UFO: The Crisman Conspiracy. It was a great read.

Peter Levenda, whom you referenced in your post has written a trilogy entitled Sinister Forces. I was trying to order Haslam's The Monkey Virus, when the publisher persuaded me to buy Levenda's books. I was pleasantly surprised. He's a very good researcher, and spends a lot of time on Crisman, UFOs, Nazis, NASA, and the CIA.

No one seems to have done much by way of figuring out the link between NASA and Reilly Coffee either. Why?

I'm just offering speculation, but NASA had the tightest security of all. Much tighter than the intel agencies.

Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal aka The Torbitt Document seemed to be explosive at the time in naming elements of NASA and the Nazis as involved in the Kennedy assassination, but was quickly discredited and dismissed by the mainstream research community. I think maybe researchers just ran into a big stone wall, a dead end as it were when it came to NASA.

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Lee,

Thanks for starting this thread. If memory serves me, Robert Howard made some comments about UFOs and the intelligence community several months ago, but the thread never got developed. His post, however, encouraged me to buy and read Maury Island UFO: The Crisman Conspiracy. It was a great read.

Peter Levenda, whom you referenced in your post has written a trilogy entitled Sinister Forces. I was trying to order Haslam's The Monkey Virus, when the publisher persuaded me to buy Levenda's books. I was pleasantly surprised. He's a very good researcher, and spends a lot of time on Crisman, UFOs, Nazis, NASA, and the CIA.

No one seems to have done much by way of figuring out the link between NASA and Reilly Coffee either. Why?

I'm just offering speculation, but NASA had the tightest security of all. Much tighter than the intel agencies.

Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal aka The Torbitt Document seemed to be explosive at the time in naming elements of NASA and the Nazis as involved in the Kennedy assassination, but was quickly discredited and dismissed by the mainstream research community. I think maybe researchers just ran into a big stone wall, a dead end as it were when it came to NASA.

Thanks Michael - it's my impression that neo-Nazis, or whatever you want to call them, were directly related to what occurred in Dallas - for a number of reasons. And there are some very interesting connections between very hush hush top secret mind control stuff and other things - like the disc technology. Why? It makes me wonder what exactly this technology consisted of, and why it was so significant. And why there appear to be so many relationships to MKULTRA related projects.

Corso, the army intelligence veteran, was like Willoughby a foe of the CIA

from the right, having tangled with the Agency in his years under C. D.

Jackson as a member of Eisenhower's Operations Control Board. In 1963-64

Corso and Willoughby were part of a secret rightwing group, the

"Shickshinny Knights of Malta" (so called after their headquarters in

Shickshinny, Pennsylvania, to distinguish them from the more famous Roman

Catholic Sovereign Military Order of Malta based in Rome). The group

provided a home to dissident retired military officers dissatisfied with

the CIA's internationalism, many of them, like Willoughby and General

Bonner Fellers, veterans of the old Hunt-MacArthur-Pawley coalition in the

early 1950s. By 1963 the group's leading asset in their anti-CIA propaganda

was a Polish intelligence defector, Michael Goleniewski, who had claimed to

audiences inside and outside the CIA that the Agency penetrated by the KGB

at a high level.

Hey - that's pretty neat. Reminds me of so many things I have read.

An aside - this doesn't in any way imply that cutouts weren't employed, or that there wasn't mafia involvement, or money coming in from Hollywood, Canadian laundering, the Moody foundation, Trujillo, Texas oilmen, etc. etc. Doesn't necessarily relieve the burden on the agency either - however, makes you wonder if it wasn't something relative to the creation of an agency within the agency around this time and relative to some of this specific activity. The sheer magnitude of the possibilities for some of the NAZI developed technology was/is mind boggling.

Allegedly, the disc technology we're talking about could ascend to a level of some 30,000 feet in a matter of seconds, could travel faster than anything we had at that time [could certainly change direction faster], and was developed as a covert nuclear weapon - capable of rapidly hovering over any given target and dropping a nuke payload. That from what I have read anyway. Of course, if we believe some of the questionable books available on the market - the Nazis never got around to developing to a proper functional nuclear device. And Dulles preferred not to provide information concerning the concentration camps to Washington in a timely fashion [if at all] because it was old news, or politically sensitive. And McCloy preferred not to do anything about the camps, or the rails leading to the camps, because it was cost prohibitive. I prefer to believe that History is written by the conquerors.

Aside - I don't ever mean to take an overly abject view of Germany in these posts. Germany is a great Nation of great people. I understand their desire to be free of these shadows - however, perhaps one needs to shed a little light on the shadows in order to truly be free of the darkness.

- lee

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The thing is Terry, it's my distinct impression that there is a correlation between some very high tech stuff, some very sophisticate mind control technology, and the NAZI culture. I still think I was mistaken about it all beginning with Paperclip. We had plenty of these occult practicing NAZI types over here [Eugenics, Banking, Business and family connections back to the Fatherland]. And I do not mean to say that Paperclip was bad - I am sure that we saved a lot of good people, and I agree that we couldn't allow it to fall into the hands of the Soviets - however, some were not good people, and they brought all their Atlantean voodoo and Satanic ritual stuff, channeling, genetic breeding and all this weird baggage that seems to have been allowed to proliferate over here.

I have been doing a bit here and there to understand the NAZI culture - I don't think people get it - it wasn't as simple as trying to create a master race, or eliminating certain unwanted genetic traits - it went pretty far beyond that. Himmler was something of a madman - however, there may have been a method to his madness - reluctant to post more on that.

As to 'aliens' - nothing that a good dose of sauce, some hypnotism and a few actors in funny looking costumes couldn't produce - with long lasting effects. The disc technology went on to possibly produce the U2. 'Swept' wing technology is standard today. Considering the distinct possibility of sabotage of the U2 project - you would have to imagine that bigger and better things were made available to replace it. The discs of the 1940s appear to have been fairly rudimentary. Tin and rivets.

I was recently reading about the Philadelphia Experiment. It's almost impossible to make out what really transpired. Interestingly enough, one author [who as an aside has a Paperclipped Nazi as being firmly involved with the project - I posted on that elsewhere] had three different variations. They were interesting. The second one came almost as a paragraph. Some testing was being done - Einstein and Tesla were present. A UFO crashed into one of the ships in front of everyone - people were hurt. The crew of the SS Andrew Furuseth - were all given mandatory psych evals. No clue what the truth is about this experiment - it's as hosed as the JFK assassination with myths, lies and BS.

Morris Jessup and Carlos Miguel Allende

In 1955, Morris K. Jessup, an amateur astronomer and former graduate-level researcher, published The Case for the UFO, an examination of the phenomenon of UFOs which contained some theorizing about the means of propulsion that flying-saucer-style UFOs might use. Jessup speculated that anti-gravity and/or electromagnetism may have been responsible for the observed flight behavior of UFOs. He lamented, both in the book and the publicity tour which followed, that space flight research was concentrated in the area of rocketry, and that little attention was paid to these other theoretical means of flight, which he felt would ultimately be more fruitful.

On January 13, 1955, Jessup received a letter from a man identifying himself as Carlos Miguel Allende. In the letter, Allende informed Jessup of the Philadelphia Experiment, alluding to poorly sourced contemporary newspaper articles as proof. Allende also said that he had witnessed the Eldridge disappear and reappear while serving aboard a merchant marine ship in its vicinity, the SS Andrew Furuseth. He further named other crew with which he served aboard the Andrew Furuseth, and claimed to know of the fates of some of the crew members of the Eldridge after the experiment, including one whom he witnessed disappear during a chaotic fight in a bar. Jessup replied to Allende by postcard, asking for further evidence and corroboration for the story, such as dates and specific details of his fantastic story.

The reply came months later; however, this time the correspondent identified himself as Carl M Allen. Allen said that he could not provide the details for which Jessup was asking, but implied that he might be able to recall by means of hypnosis. Jessup decided to discontinue the correspondence.

.

I would like to know anything anyone has on a JS Martin of Oak Cliff, Texas, who lived there in 1963. He may provide some more links and answers.

No one seems to have done much by way of figuring out the link between NASA and Reilly Coffee either. Why?

******************************************************************

"I was recently reading about the Philadelphia Experiment. It's almost impossible to make out what really transpired. Interestingly enough, one author [who as an aside has a Paperclipped Nazi as being firmly involved with the project - I posted on that elsewhere] had three different variations. They were interesting. The second one came almost as a paragraph. Some testing was being done - Einstein and Tesla were present. A UFO crashed into one of the ships in front of everyone - people were hurt. The crew of the SS Andrew Furuseth - were all given mandatory psych evals. No clue what the truth is about this experiment - it's as hosed as the JFK assassination with myths, lies and BS.

QUOTE

Morris Jessup and Carlos Miguel Allende

In 1955, Morris K. Jessup, an amateur astronomer and former graduate-level researcher, published The Case for the UFO, an examination of the phenomenon of UFOs which contained some theorizing about the means of propulsion that flying-saucer-style UFOs might use. Jessup speculated that anti-gravity and/or electromagnetism may have been responsible for the observed flight behavior of UFOs. He lamented, both in the book and the publicity tour which followed, that space flight research was concentrated in the area of rocketry, and that little attention was paid to these other theoretical means of flight, which he felt would ultimately be more fruitful."

I am in total agreement with you here, Lee. I was one who was a believer in UFO's of an alien origin, in my younger days, but as I watched technology unfold, and observed how the gov. classifies information regarding its "secret projects, my ideas matured considerably over time. I have read two books with the name or word, "Majestic" in their title. One was by Walter Schreiber, of what I consider to be the fantasy genre, and the other was written by a physicist, whose name escapes me at the moment. The latter dealt with the actual physics of flight and ascent [vertical, by means other than rocket propulsion]. I could better understand the necessity for "ultra" [for lack of better terminology, on my part] classification, due to the inherent risks involved and potential loss of life which might occur with respect to the flight testing involved in such a project. How this risk and loss might not come across as entirely palatable to the general public, and therefore, other measures might be better employed for dissuading or discouraging any outside scrutiny on behalf of those involved. Hence, the fabrication of "Roswell" and the subsequent creation of "Project Blue Book," as a means of ultimate deterrence and distraction. And, as I've mentioned in another thread, the majority of the American public were already considered gullible and acquiescent for any story, scam, or pseudo-sci explanation, as witnessed by the reaction elicited with Orson Wells' famous "fantasy" broadcast of the thirties, "War Of The Worlds." You could literally convince the "sheeple" of just about anything, at that time. I even bought it before learning the physical sciences, myself. Then, there was the scare of "Sputnik" in the fall of 1957, which really affected my 12 year old mind, at the time. So, people were primed to accept anything their gov. handed them, or were susceptible to it at least, especially due to the "Red Scare" being perpetrated on them by their own gov.

Edited by Terry Mauro
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Terry - thanks for your replies. I don't think too many folks want to jump in here - Some folks may be reluctant to touch anything that has 'UFO' associated with it, thanks to the stigma that they have successfully created - [and now Hollywood has helped out by turning the Men in Black into witty buffoons - casually making use of campy mind erasing technology while performing a great service for their country - good guys - what a laugh] however, IMO this is a brilliant piece here.

Wish I had found this bit several years ago. Great summary. Need to find the full article.

http://beyondweird.com/ufos/Bruce_Walton_T...nvasion_42.html

THE SECRET LIFE OF FRED L. CRISMAN, by veteran writer on

financial conspiracy, Anthony L. Kimory. (The following is based on notes

taken from Kimory's article, as well as a few of my own comments and

observations thrown in. - Wol.): The article dealt with Fred Crisman's

connection with PROJECT PAPERCLIP -- a top-secret operation which brought

Nazi scientists into America as part of a program to duplicate Nazi flying

discs, and to develop other revolutionary technologies. This operation was

not actually carried out by the U.S. Constitutional government as we know

it, but by a branch of German (Bavarian) Intelligence which had INFILTRATED

American Intelligence with the help of fifth column secret society members

and Nazi sympathisers within American Intelligence agencies who helped to

form the CIA. Some years later this fascist cabal working within the CIA

took control of large segments of the U.S. government and intelligence

agencies through an internal fascist coup d'etat which involved the death

of President John Fitz- gerald Kennedy. From that point on the Congress

ceased to be the supreme ruling power in America, and the CIA-NSA-MJ12

"Military Industrial" [Nazi] government gained the upper hand... In recent

years however the original Constitutional-based government has been making

a come-back, with the help of the Navy Intelligence COM-12 agency and

American Patriots who are beginning to wake up to what really began

happening in this country from 1947 and onward. James Garrison, the

Louisiana attorney depicted by Kevin Costner in the movie 'JFK' [who

investigated the John F. Kennedy assassination reportedly discovered the

connection between Crisman and PAPERCLIP. The Paperclip Project sent elite

teams of scientists and investigators, known as 'T-Forces', into Europe to

confiscate all documents, files, hard- ware in German labs, and even

scientific personnel who were involved in the Nazi aerospace research, an

operation which led to the great European 'brain drain' following WWII.

That is, all of the 'brains' that were left in Germany following the

massive escape operation to Neu Schwabenland, Antarctica during the closing

months of the war... and those 'minds' who remained certainly weren't the

'cream' of the German- Austrian intellectual 'crop'. The plan was to

develop discoid antigravity- type aircraft similar to those which the Nazis

had experimented with. The Army, Navy, Army Air Force, CIA and OSS

reportedly assisted in the 'T-Forces' and 'Paperclip' Projects, according

to Kimory. Several high-ranking Nazis who assisted in the 'atrocities' were

brought to America also, and their crimes suppressed. Many of these worked

at the Peenemunde Aerodynamics Institute, which built the V-2 rockets,

German fighter jets, etc., using forced slave labor from the Karlshagen

concentration camp. Peenemunde scientists, under PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

according to Kimory, have secretly CONTROL- LED the U.S. rocketry,

aerospace and space projects for over 20 years, with the majority of those

at NASA being oblivious of the fact. Perhaps this explains the unreasonably

'bad luck' that NASA has experienced in its OVERT space program, not to

mention the fact that with all of the incredible technological advancements

that have been made since the cessation of the moon-shots of 1969-70, the

USA has not 'officially' carried out any further attempts at lunar

exploration. Then again, there are many sources who claim that NASA is 'for

public show' only, and that the REAL and COVERT space projects are being

run by these techno-fascists in the CIA and NSA behind-the-scenes, who are

making every effort to keep America in general from establishing a foothold

in space. Kimory claims that Wernher von Braun and Kurt Davis, heads of

Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center, were both active

Nazi S.S. agents even after they were brought into America with the help of

Nazi infiltrators and sympathizers in U.S. Intelligence. James Garrison had

arrested Clay Shaw on conspiracy to murder JFK, linking him with the CIA.

However, when Garrison's star witness David Ferrie was found dead only a

few days before Clay Shaw's trial, Garrison did not have enough against

Shaw to make a conviction. It was later discovered in a FOIA document in

1977 that Clay Shaw HAD BEEN in the CIA since 1949. Garrison also linked

Fred L. Crisman to Clay Shaw, and in fact sources indicate that Crisman was

the first one Clay Shaw called when Shaw learned that he was in trouble. Is

was discovered that Shaw was in business with European NAZIS and FASCISTS

who were involved in covert operations sponsored by the CIA, according to

the article. Shaw was also allegedly tied-in with the O.S.S. Crisman, who

worked as a go-between in the Military-Industrial establishment (especially

the aerospace companies which were the major beneficiaries of Project

Paperclip) was believed by Garrison to be a 'middle man' within a

deep-level intelligence network, working in- between those who gave the

orders (which included assassinations) and those who carried them out.

Garrison also believed that Crisman was involved with the men who carried

out the JFK assassination, and Crisman had also made several trips to

Dallas just prior to JFK's death, which is why Garrison subpoenaed him.

Crisman was also involved with a government program to 'help gypsies', was

tied-in with the O.S.S., and was a member of a secret fraternity of former

Intelligence officers, and was also involved with organized crime,

according to Garrison's investigations. Of course the strangest aspect of

the Crisman connection was that it was Fred L. Crisman himself who handed

over 'metal-slag' samples that were reportedly found after a 'UFO' [one of

six 'donut- shaped' vehicles observed -- remember, the Nazis had developed

jet-turbine engines that were 'donut-shaped' in configuration rather than

cylindrical] dropped the substance over the Maurey Island area near Tacoma,

Washington in 1947, killing a dog and injuring one person who was on a boat

in Tacoma harbor in the process. Crisman handed the samples to two Army G-2

Intelligence officers, Capt. William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown. On

their way to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio (where several German

Peenemunde scientists reportedly worked) with the 'classified' material,

their plane crashed and both were killed. News reports of the time

mentioned that the plane MAY have been sabotaged. Frank Brown's widow did

in fact state her conviction that her husband was murdered. In addition to

this, a particularly persistent reporter into the Maurey Island episode

died shortly after the investigation, and Kenneth Arnold (who had his Mt.

Rainier sighting and almost fatal engine failure only a few days later)

reported that his room, where he often discussed the Maurey Island case

with United Airlines Captain E. J. Smith, had been bugged. Kimory suggests

that the Maurey Island UFO may have been a 'hybrid' of the Nazi UFO designs

developed by the Military-Industrial Establishment and PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

which might explain the mystery. [For more information on 'Project

Paperclip', see also: SECRET AGENDA, by Linda Hunt. St. Martins Press.

1991]. * * * * * * *

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Hi Lee,

Another loose association here is Harry Real; who was an officer of the Agency's New York Contact Division. In the late 1950's, Real was involved in sourcing UFO photographs for Agency analysis.

In 1960, Harry Real was the first Agency contact for Antonio Veciana after his defection. Veciana asked Real for introductions to the right people so that he could assassinate Castro.

FWIW.

James

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Terry - thanks for your replies. I don't think too many folks want to jump in here - Some folks may be reluctant to touch anything that has 'UFO' associated with it, thanks to the stigma that they have successfully created - [and now Hollywood has helped out by turning the Men in Black into witty buffoons - casually making use of campy mind erasing technology while performing a great service for their country - good guys - what a laugh] however, IMO this is a brilliant piece here.

Wish I had found this bit several years ago. Great summary. Need to find the full article.

http://beyondweird.com/ufos/Bruce_Walton_T...nvasion_42.html

THE SECRET LIFE OF FRED L. CRISMAN, by veteran writer on

financial conspiracy, Anthony L. Kimory. (The following is based on notes

taken from Kimory's article, as well as a few of my own comments and

observations thrown in. - Wol.): The article dealt with Fred Crisman's

connection with PROJECT PAPERCLIP -- a top-secret operation which brought

Nazi scientists into America as part of a program to duplicate Nazi flying

discs, and to develop other revolutionary technologies. This operation was

not actually carried out by the U.S. Constitutional government as we know

it, but by a branch of German (Bavarian) Intelligence which had INFILTRATED

American Intelligence with the help of fifth column secret society members

and Nazi sympathisers within American Intelligence agencies who helped to

form the CIA. Some years later this fascist cabal working within the CIA

took control of large segments of the U.S. government and intelligence

agencies through an internal fascist coup d'etat which involved the death

of President John Fitz- gerald Kennedy. From that point on the Congress

ceased to be the supreme ruling power in America, and the CIA-NSA-MJ12

"Military Industrial" [Nazi] government gained the upper hand... In recent

years however the original Constitutional-based government has been making

a come-back, with the help of the Navy Intelligence COM-12 agency and

American Patriots who are beginning to wake up to what really began

happening in this country from 1947 and onward. James Garrison, the

Louisiana attorney depicted by Kevin Costner in the movie 'JFK' [who

investigated the John F. Kennedy assassination reportedly discovered the

connection between Crisman and PAPERCLIP. The Paperclip Project sent elite

teams of scientists and investigators, known as 'T-Forces', into Europe to

confiscate all documents, files, hard- ware in German labs, and even

scientific personnel who were involved in the Nazi aerospace research, an

operation which led to the great European 'brain drain' following WWII.

That is, all of the 'brains' that were left in Germany following the

massive escape operation to Neu Schwabenland, Antarctica during the closing

months of the war... and those 'minds' who remained certainly weren't the

'cream' of the German- Austrian intellectual 'crop'. The plan was to

develop discoid antigravity- type aircraft similar to those which the Nazis

had experimented with. The Army, Navy, Army Air Force, CIA and OSS

reportedly assisted in the 'T-Forces' and 'Paperclip' Projects, according

to Kimory. Several high-ranking Nazis who assisted in the 'atrocities' were

brought to America also, and their crimes suppressed. Many of these worked

at the Peenemunde Aerodynamics Institute, which built the V-2 rockets,

German fighter jets, etc., using forced slave labor from the Karlshagen

concentration camp. Peenemunde scientists, under PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

according to Kimory, have secretly CONTROL- LED the U.S. rocketry,

aerospace and space projects for over 20 years, with the majority of those

at NASA being oblivious of the fact. Perhaps this explains the unreasonably

'bad luck' that NASA has experienced in its OVERT space program, not to

mention the fact that with all of the incredible technological advancements

that have been made since the cessation of the moon-shots of 1969-70, the

USA has not 'officially' carried out any further attempts at lunar

exploration. Then again, there are many sources who claim that NASA is 'for

public show' only, and that the REAL and COVERT space projects are being

run by these techno-fascists in the CIA and NSA behind-the-scenes, who are

making every effort to keep America in general from establishing a foothold

in space. Kimory claims that Wernher von Braun and Kurt Davis, heads of

Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center, were both active

Nazi S.S. agents even after they were brought into America with the help of

Nazi infiltrators and sympathizers in U.S. Intelligence. James Garrison had

arrested Clay Shaw on conspiracy to murder JFK, linking him with the CIA.

However, when Garrison's star witness David Ferrie was found dead only a

few days before Clay Shaw's trial, Garrison did not have enough against

Shaw to make a conviction. It was later discovered in a FOIA document in

1977 that Clay Shaw HAD BEEN in the CIA since 1949. Garrison also linked

Fred L. Crisman to Clay Shaw, and in fact sources indicate that Crisman was

the first one Clay Shaw called when Shaw learned that he was in trouble. Is

was discovered that Shaw was in business with European NAZIS and FASCISTS

who were involved in covert operations sponsored by the CIA, according to

the article. Shaw was also allegedly tied-in with the O.S.S. Crisman, who

worked as a go-between in the Military-Industrial establishment (especially

the aerospace companies which were the major beneficiaries of Project

Paperclip) was believed by Garrison to be a 'middle man' within a

deep-level intelligence network, working in- between those who gave the

orders (which included assassinations) and those who carried them out.

Garrison also believed that Crisman was involved with the men who carried

out the JFK assassination, and Crisman had also made several trips to

Dallas just prior to JFK's death, which is why Garrison subpoenaed him.

Crisman was also involved with a government program to 'help gypsies', was

tied-in with the O.S.S., and was a member of a secret fraternity of former

Intelligence officers, and was also involved with organized crime,

according to Garrison's investigations. Of course the strangest aspect of

the Crisman connection was that it was Fred L. Crisman himself who handed

over 'metal-slag' samples that were reportedly found after a 'UFO' [one of

six 'donut- shaped' vehicles observed -- remember, the Nazis had developed

jet-turbine engines that were 'donut-shaped' in configuration rather than

cylindrical] dropped the substance over the Maurey Island area near Tacoma,

Washington in 1947, killing a dog and injuring one person who was on a boat

in Tacoma harbor in the process. Crisman handed the samples to two Army G-2

Intelligence officers, Capt. William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown. On

their way to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio (where several German

Peenemunde scientists reportedly worked) with the 'classified' material,

their plane crashed and both were killed. News reports of the time

mentioned that the plane MAY have been sabotaged. Frank Brown's widow did

in fact state her conviction that her husband was murdered. In addition to

this, a particularly persistent reporter into the Maurey Island episode

died shortly after the investigation, and Kenneth Arnold (who had his Mt.

Rainier sighting and almost fatal engine failure only a few days later)

reported that his room, where he often discussed the Maurey Island case

with United Airlines Captain E. J. Smith, had been bugged. Kimory suggests

that the Maurey Island UFO may have been a 'hybrid' of the Nazi UFO designs

developed by the Military-Industrial Establishment and PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

which might explain the mystery. [For more information on 'Project

Paperclip', see also: SECRET AGENDA, by Linda Hunt. St. Martins Press.

1991]. * * * * * * *

*****************************************************

"that the REAL and COVERT space projects are being

run by these techno-fascists in the CIA and NSA behind-the-scenes, who are

making every effort to keep America in general from establishing a foothold

in space. Kimory claims that Wernher von Braun and Kurt Davis, heads of

Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center, were both active

Nazi S.S. agents even after they were brought into America with the help of

Nazi infiltrators and sympathizers in U.S. Intelligence. James Garrison had

arrested Clay Shaw on conspiracy to murder JFK, linking him with the CIA.

However, when Garrison's star witness David Ferrie was found dead only a

few days before Clay Shaw's trial, Garrison did not have enough against

Shaw to make a conviction. It was later discovered in a FOIA document in

1977 that Clay Shaw HAD BEEN in the CIA since 1949. Garrison also linked

Fred L. Crisman to Clay Shaw, and in fact sources indicate that Crisman was

the first one Clay Shaw called when Shaw learned that he was in trouble. Is

was discovered that Shaw was in business with European NAZIS and FASCISTS

who were involved in covert operations sponsored by the CIA, according to

the article. Shaw was also allegedly tied-in with the O.S.S. Crisman, who

worked as a go-between in the Military-Industrial establishment (especially

the aerospace companies which were the major beneficiaries of Project

Paperclip) was believed by Garrison to be a 'middle man' within a

deep-level intelligence network, working in- between those who gave the

orders (which included assassinations) and those who carried them out.

Garrison also believed that Crisman was involved with the men who carried

out the JFK assassination, and Crisman had also made several trips to

Dallas just prior to JFK's death, which is why Garrison subpoenaed him.

Crisman was also involved with a government program to 'help gypsies', was

tied-in with the O.S.S., and was a member of a secret fraternity of former

Intelligence officers, and was also involved with organized crime,

according to Garrison's investigations. Of course the strangest aspect of

the Crisman connection was that it was Fred L. Crisman himself who handed

over 'metal-slag' samples that were reportedly found after a 'UFO' [one of

six 'donut- shaped' vehicles observed -- remember, the Nazis had developed

jet-turbine engines that were 'donut-shaped' in configuration rather than

cylindrical] dropped the substance over the Maurey Island area near Tacoma,

Washington in 1947, killing a dog and injuring one person who was on a boat

in Tacoma harbor in the process. Crisman handed the samples to two Army G-2

Intelligence officers, Capt. William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown. On

their way to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio (where several German

Peenemunde scientists reportedly worked) with the 'classified' material,

their plane crashed and both were killed. News reports of the time

mentioned that the plane MAY have been sabotaged. Frank Brown's widow did

in fact state her conviction that her husband was murdered. In addition to

this, a particularly persistent reporter into the Maurey Island episode

died shortly after the investigation, and Kenneth Arnold (who had his Mt.

Rainier sighting and almost fatal engine failure only a few days later)

reported that his room, where he often discussed the Maurey Island case

with United Airlines Captain E. J. Smith, had been bugged. Kimory suggests

that the Maurey Island UFO may have been a 'hybrid' of the Nazi UFO designs

developed by the Military-Industrial Establishment and PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

which might explain the mystery. [For more information on 'Project

Paperclip', see also: SECRET AGENDA, by Linda Hunt. St. Martins Press.

1991]. * * * * * * *"

Thanks for that piece of info, Lee. It never ceases to amaze me as to what kind of snakes and serpents always manage to wriggle their venomous way into the heart of our seats of gov. These bastards may be of the highest caliber with respect to intellect, based upon their supposedly pure Aryan blood lines, but from what I've studied in the realm of genetics and inherited characteristics is this. The purer you attempt to narrow the gene pool in an effort to create a master race, or to isolate a perfect trait for perpetuity, the more at risk you become in creating an anomaly, or freak-ish, if not downright flawed aberration, be it an Idiot Savant, or a Tay-Sachs syndrome, to name a couple of the more milder variety, or even Sickle Cell anemia, to bring the analogy into a more familiar perspective. In any event, this how I've come to view the people associated with that philosophical mindset. They may be highly intelligent, rich, powerful, yet they're also dangerously monstrous, in their mendacious lust for power and control. But, they're also to viewed as psychotically deranged "bad seeds," in need of eradication, harsh as that may sound, but more likely along the lines of institutionalization, preferably in high security lock-down facilities. As you can readily understand my abhorrance of these super-intellectually psychotic individuals as witnessed by their total disregard for anything that doesn't conform to their twisted image of "white" perfection. Strength of the human race can only be assured by the process of natural selection, or survival of the fittest, incorporating a variety of racially mixed bloodlines. This is definitely not accomplished by isolating one particular gene pool from the rest under the mistaken notion of creating a super, pure race. Just witness any pure-bred animal show, or the crowned royalty of Europe. You may get the desired results, but you'll also get the undesirable abberrations, as well. And, that is not an experiment that bodes well when it comes to trying to refine the human race, simply because some half-witted in-bred says so. But, that's just MHO. :)

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Terry - thanks for your replies. I don't think too many folks want to jump in here - Some folks may be reluctant to touch anything that has 'UFO' associated with it, thanks to the stigma that they have successfully created - [and now Hollywood has helped out by turning the Men in Black into witty buffoons - casually making use of campy mind erasing technology while performing a great service for their country - good guys - what a laugh] however, IMO this is a brilliant piece here.

Wish I had found this bit several years ago. Great summary. Need to find the full article.

http://beyondweird.com/ufos/Bruce_Walton_T...nvasion_42.html

THE SECRET LIFE OF FRED L. CRISMAN, by veteran writer on

financial conspiracy, Anthony L. Kimory. (The following is based on notes

taken from Kimory's article, as well as a few of my own comments and

observations thrown in. - Wol.): The article dealt with Fred Crisman's

connection with PROJECT PAPERCLIP -- a top-secret operation which brought

Nazi scientists into America as part of a program to duplicate Nazi flying

discs, and to develop other revolutionary technologies. This operation was

not actually carried out by the U.S. Constitutional government as we know

it, but by a branch of German (Bavarian) Intelligence which had INFILTRATED

American Intelligence with the help of fifth column secret society members

and Nazi sympathisers within American Intelligence agencies who helped to

form the CIA. Some years later this fascist cabal working within the CIA

took control of large segments of the U.S. government and intelligence

agencies through an internal fascist coup d'etat which involved the death

of President John Fitz- gerald Kennedy. From that point on the Congress

ceased to be the supreme ruling power in America, and the CIA-NSA-MJ12

"Military Industrial" [Nazi] government gained the upper hand... In recent

years however the original Constitutional-based government has been making

a come-back, with the help of the Navy Intelligence COM-12 agency and

American Patriots who are beginning to wake up to what really began

happening in this country from 1947 and onward. James Garrison, the

Louisiana attorney depicted by Kevin Costner in the movie 'JFK' [who

investigated the John F. Kennedy assassination reportedly discovered the

connection between Crisman and PAPERCLIP. The Paperclip Project sent elite

teams of scientists and investigators, known as 'T-Forces', into Europe to

confiscate all documents, files, hard- ware in German labs, and even

scientific personnel who were involved in the Nazi aerospace research, an

operation which led to the great European 'brain drain' following WWII.

That is, all of the 'brains' that were left in Germany following the

massive escape operation to Neu Schwabenland, Antarctica during the closing

months of the war... and those 'minds' who remained certainly weren't the

'cream' of the German- Austrian intellectual 'crop'. The plan was to

develop discoid antigravity- type aircraft similar to those which the Nazis

had experimented with. The Army, Navy, Army Air Force, CIA and OSS

reportedly assisted in the 'T-Forces' and 'Paperclip' Projects, according

to Kimory. Several high-ranking Nazis who assisted in the 'atrocities' were

brought to America also, and their crimes suppressed. Many of these worked

at the Peenemunde Aerodynamics Institute, which built the V-2 rockets,

German fighter jets, etc., using forced slave labor from the Karlshagen

concentration camp. Peenemunde scientists, under PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

according to Kimory, have secretly CONTROL- LED the U.S. rocketry,

aerospace and space projects for over 20 years, with the majority of those

at NASA being oblivious of the fact. Perhaps this explains the unreasonably

'bad luck' that NASA has experienced in its OVERT space program, not to

mention the fact that with all of the incredible technological advancements

that have been made since the cessation of the moon-shots of 1969-70, the

USA has not 'officially' carried out any further attempts at lunar

exploration. Then again, there are many sources who claim that NASA is 'for

public show' only, and that the REAL and COVERT space projects are being

run by these techno-fascists in the CIA and NSA behind-the-scenes, who are

making every effort to keep America in general from establishing a foothold

in space. Kimory claims that Wernher von Braun and Kurt Davis, heads of

Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center, were both active

Nazi S.S. agents even after they were brought into America with the help of

Nazi infiltrators and sympathizers in U.S. Intelligence. James Garrison had

arrested Clay Shaw on conspiracy to murder JFK, linking him with the CIA.

However, when Garrison's star witness David Ferrie was found dead only a

few days before Clay Shaw's trial, Garrison did not have enough against

Shaw to make a conviction. It was later discovered in a FOIA document in

1977 that Clay Shaw HAD BEEN in the CIA since 1949. Garrison also linked

Fred L. Crisman to Clay Shaw, and in fact sources indicate that Crisman was

the first one Clay Shaw called when Shaw learned that he was in trouble. Is

was discovered that Shaw was in business with European NAZIS and FASCISTS

who were involved in covert operations sponsored by the CIA, according to

the article. Shaw was also allegedly tied-in with the O.S.S. Crisman, who

worked as a go-between in the Military-Industrial establishment (especially

the aerospace companies which were the major beneficiaries of Project

Paperclip) was believed by Garrison to be a 'middle man' within a

deep-level intelligence network, working in- between those who gave the

orders (which included assassinations) and those who carried them out.

Garrison also believed that Crisman was involved with the men who carried

out the JFK assassination, and Crisman had also made several trips to

Dallas just prior to JFK's death, which is why Garrison subpoenaed him.

Crisman was also involved with a government program to 'help gypsies', was

tied-in with the O.S.S., and was a member of a secret fraternity of former

Intelligence officers, and was also involved with organized crime,

according to Garrison's investigations. Of course the strangest aspect of

the Crisman connection was that it was Fred L. Crisman himself who handed

over 'metal-slag' samples that were reportedly found after a 'UFO' [one of

six 'donut- shaped' vehicles observed -- remember, the Nazis had developed

jet-turbine engines that were 'donut-shaped' in configuration rather than

cylindrical] dropped the substance over the Maurey Island area near Tacoma,

Washington in 1947, killing a dog and injuring one person who was on a boat

in Tacoma harbor in the process. Crisman handed the samples to two Army G-2

Intelligence officers, Capt. William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown. On

their way to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio (where several German

Peenemunde scientists reportedly worked) with the 'classified' material,

their plane crashed and both were killed. News reports of the time

mentioned that the plane MAY have been sabotaged. Frank Brown's widow did

in fact state her conviction that her husband was murdered. In addition to

this, a particularly persistent reporter into the Maurey Island episode

died shortly after the investigation, and Kenneth Arnold (who had his Mt.

Rainier sighting and almost fatal engine failure only a few days later)

reported that his room, where he often discussed the Maurey Island case

with United Airlines Captain E. J. Smith, had been bugged. Kimory suggests

that the Maurey Island UFO may have been a 'hybrid' of the Nazi UFO designs

developed by the Military-Industrial Establishment and PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

which might explain the mystery. [For more information on 'Project

Paperclip', see also: SECRET AGENDA, by Linda Hunt. St. Martins Press.

1991]. * * * * * * *

*****************************************************

"that the REAL and COVERT space projects are being

run by these techno-fascists in the CIA and NSA behind-the-scenes, who are

making every effort to keep America in general from establishing a foothold

in space. Kimory claims that Wernher von Braun and Kurt Davis, heads of

Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center, were both active

Nazi S.S. agents even after they were brought into America with the help of

Nazi infiltrators and sympathizers in U.S. Intelligence. James Garrison had

arrested Clay Shaw on conspiracy to murder JFK, linking him with the CIA.

However, when Garrison's star witness David Ferrie was found dead only a

few days before Clay Shaw's trial, Garrison did not have enough against

Shaw to make a conviction. It was later discovered in a FOIA document in

1977 that Clay Shaw HAD BEEN in the CIA since 1949. Garrison also linked

Fred L. Crisman to Clay Shaw, and in fact sources indicate that Crisman was

the first one Clay Shaw called when Shaw learned that he was in trouble. Is

was discovered that Shaw was in business with European NAZIS and FASCISTS

who were involved in covert operations sponsored by the CIA, according to

the article. Shaw was also allegedly tied-in with the O.S.S. Crisman, who

worked as a go-between in the Military-Industrial establishment (especially

the aerospace companies which were the major beneficiaries of Project

Paperclip) was believed by Garrison to be a 'middle man' within a

deep-level intelligence network, working in- between those who gave the

orders (which included assassinations) and those who carried them out.

Garrison also believed that Crisman was involved with the men who carried

out the JFK assassination, and Crisman had also made several trips to

Dallas just prior to JFK's death, which is why Garrison subpoenaed him.

Crisman was also involved with a government program to 'help gypsies', was

tied-in with the O.S.S., and was a member of a secret fraternity of former

Intelligence officers, and was also involved with organized crime,

according to Garrison's investigations. Of course the strangest aspect of

the Crisman connection was that it was Fred L. Crisman himself who handed

over 'metal-slag' samples that were reportedly found after a 'UFO' [one of

six 'donut- shaped' vehicles observed -- remember, the Nazis had developed

jet-turbine engines that were 'donut-shaped' in configuration rather than

cylindrical] dropped the substance over the Maurey Island area near Tacoma,

Washington in 1947, killing a dog and injuring one person who was on a boat

in Tacoma harbor in the process. Crisman handed the samples to two Army G-2

Intelligence officers, Capt. William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown. On

their way to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio (where several German

Peenemunde scientists reportedly worked) with the 'classified' material,

their plane crashed and both were killed. News reports of the time

mentioned that the plane MAY have been sabotaged. Frank Brown's widow did

in fact state her conviction that her husband was murdered. In addition to

this, a particularly persistent reporter into the Maurey Island episode

died shortly after the investigation, and Kenneth Arnold (who had his Mt.

Rainier sighting and almost fatal engine failure only a few days later)

reported that his room, where he often discussed the Maurey Island case

with United Airlines Captain E. J. Smith, had been bugged. Kimory suggests

that the Maurey Island UFO may have been a 'hybrid' of the Nazi UFO designs

developed by the Military-Industrial Establishment and PROJECT PAPERCLIP,

which might explain the mystery. [For more information on 'Project

Paperclip', see also: SECRET AGENDA, by Linda Hunt. St. Martins Press.

1991]. * * * * * * *"

Thanks for that piece of info, Lee. It never ceases to amaze me as to what kind of snakes and serpents always manage to wriggle their venomous way into the heart of our seats of gov. These bastards may be of the highest caliber with respect to intellect, based upon their supposedly pure Aryan blood lines, but from what I've studied in the realm of genetics and inherited characteristics is this. The purer you attempt to narrow the gene pool in an effort to create a master race, or to isolate a perfect trait for perpetuity, the more at risk you become in creating an anomaly, or freak-ish, if not downright flawed aberration, be it an Idiot Savant, or a Tay-Sachs syndrome, to name a couple of the more milder variety, or even Sickle Cell anemia, to bring the analogy into a more familiar perspective. In any event, this how I've come to view the people associated with that philosophical mindset. They may be highly intelligent, rich, powerful, yet they're also dangerously monstrous, in their mendacious lust for power and control. But, they're also to viewed as psychotically deranged "bad seeds," in need of eradication, harsh as that may sound, but more likely along the lines of institutionalization, preferably in high security lock-down facilities. As you can readily understand my abhorrance of these super-intellectually psychotic individuals as witnessed by their total disregard for anything that doesn't conform to their twisted image of "white" perfection. Strength of the human race can only be assured by the process of natural selection, or survival of the fittest, incorporating a variety of racially mixed bloodlines. This is definitely not accomplished by isolating one particular gene pool from the rest under the mistaken notion of creating a super, pure race. Just witness any pure-bred animal show, or the crowned royalty of Europe. You may get the desired results, but you'll also get the undesirable abberrations, as well. And, that is not an experiment that bodes well when it comes to trying to refine the human race, simply because some half-witted in-bred says so. But, that's just MHO. :)

Terry, You are so right, concerning genetics. I breed Dobermans with my son. I have done alot of research on breeding. Alot of breeders will only "line" breed. Meaning, once they reach their desired results in their dogs, they only breed within that family. Son/Daughter, Brother/Sister, Mother/Son, etc, etc....That is something i would suggest staying away from completely. Genetic problems, health issues, temperment problems, are just a few problems encountered. They will argue until blue in the face about the benefits. You may end up with a genetic lookalike, but will they turn on you and kill your kid?? FWIW anyway.

thanks--smitty

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Facinating stuff guys - the genetics stuff comes into play a lot in where I am playing. I have heard and read some mighty bizarre stuff. Frankly, I don't know what to make of it and hesitate to post about it. And unfortunately, it's very much connected and would belong here as a part of this thread.

Can't help wonder about some of the stuff related by Kay Griggs as well.

If you have time, it's worth watching.

http://cortez.gnn.tv/blogs/6867/Kay_Griggs...Ops_Underground

If you have a desire to know more about the games that were played during that time period, I recommend 'Project Paperclip' by Clarence Lasby. Gives a better picture of things - even if it is not complete and had to go through the inevitable 'cleaning' process. I don't think Lasby has anything on a nuke or nuke research being recovered, for example.

This site is facinating.

http://missilegate.com/rfz/chapter3d.htm

One quote:

Dr. Jesensky and Mr. Lesniakiewicz assembled and analyzed the great volume of evidence they had gathered over the years. They analyzed the physical evidence of the sites and interviewed as many people as possible. From the thousands of observations made and facts collected, they tried to draw conclusions. They found a close proximity and close association of the German nuclear program to the German flying saucer program. They concluded that one aim of the German nuclear program was to build a nuclear powered flying saucer (23).

So it would appear that there are a few folks connected to the JFK assassination that for whatever reason were at one time associated with a disinfo campaign concerning the US Military 'exploitation' of this NAZI achieved technology. I find that odd.

- lee

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I wanted to posit some thought's on this subject. It was about 13 years ago when I first discovered what could be called the "commercial market of conspiracy theory." [Please do not misconstrue, my (lacking) description of this subculture/genre as an attempt to denigrate acceptance of conspiracies, which occur in the world of drug's and crime on a daily, if not hourly basis.] To anyone familiar with my posts, it is pretty obvious I accept the premise that all of the assassinations of the 1960's were conspiracies, and that they do indeed continue.

Anyhow, in 1993 I saw a catalogue which contained books about every topic under the sun framed in a conspiratorial context, [some were very valid, some, I thought were a real reach] and it made me realize there was an aspect of it that was very commercialized and somewhat artificial. It was around then, that I first became aware of the so-called UFO connection to the assassination of JFK. When I started the thread that was referenced earlier about Maury Island UFO, the idea was to help remove the stigma of the linkage, [i.e. the dynamic of juxtaposing the UFO issue, side-by-side to the JFK Assassination, IMO the book is a must read, [Kenn Thomas is a real asset to the JFK research community] and offers as much clarity concerning the events surrounding the Maury Island incident and the characters contained therein, to help de-mystify it, to the optimum degree, that I think is possible.

I tend to agree with most, if not all of the author's assertions in the book. And I have, on my own run across a strange news story from 1947 written by Dorothy Kilgallen of all people. I'm relying on memory, but the story concerned a UFO crash where 7 or 8 alien bodies were discovered [scout's Honor] in Scandanavia, I believe. I feel that either it was a 'cover story' or a bona-fide story, but those are the only two choices, anyway, I suppose.

[There were a very small number of these 'alien bodies recovered' stories that emerged circa 1946-48, and to be honest, my initial reaction to realizing this was that, it was frustrating to me, because of all the denigrating comments heaped on those [via mainstream media] who believe there was a conspiracy re the JFK Assassination, as if Speisel at the Garrison trial wasn't bad enough; because in essence it [uFO related material] becomes grist for the mill in attempting to make those with pro-conspiracy views re 11/22/63 your basic these are the people out in La La land label. But, as the info Lee has posted illustrates there is 'some type of linkage' even if it is primarily one of a psychlogical head game to discredit the JFK research community, as well as very real issues;

Then there is the fact that most logical, rational minds [rightly] accept the possibility of life on other planets, so in a manner of speaking from a JFK researchers perspective it's something of a lose-lose proposition.

Maybe some of you saw Bill Kelly's post re Arthur Young and Bill being asked by Mr Young if he was from the realm of the Pleadieans, or some such. When one is attempting to decipher Covert History, and covert operations from decades back, one will fiind a maisma of areas that are 'problematic' in ascertainig 'just what in the hell was going on, through the looking glass.'

A real turning point for me personally [and hopefully] is what I have learned in my life about world history, covert history, political science, how the US media operates, foreign policy and everything one can about the players in what I personally consider to be a black op that went down in Dallas, 'that day.'

I would say [this will probably not make sense unless you are [like me, over 45 and have been following the JFK saga since, well, a long, long time.]

In many way's the conspiracy regarding the assassination of JFK has been uncovered in detail, especially re the activities and MO of the CIA, [example: covert operatives in Dallas, on film, false flag stories which reveal that there were fallback patsies, or Plan B patsies, see Jack Ruby; the DRE was behind at least one story linking Jack Ruby to at least one trip to the isle of Cuber [lol] not on the record] I believe Joan Mellen was correct about Thomas Edward Beckham being a back-up patsy. [My local library has reams of documents on the assassination, only one is missing. Do you know what the topic of that reel was? Thomas Edward Beckham, and this release was from 1977, decades before Mellen's tome. Coincidence?]

Why would there be a contingency for a Plan B Patsy?

Well, some would say that, that is pretty much the norm for a covert-operation, although I believe there was a secondary reason, that there was a very real concern that 'someone would vouch for Lee Harvey Oswald's bona fides as someone connected with one or more of the intelligence agencies of the US Gov't.

[i probably should not say that as that is strictly my opinion] Victor Marchetti once said that if LHO was a dangle in Minsk that the FBI would have known that, and I think Marchetti is very good.

So, where are the most glaring gap's re: the unanswered questions?

Although it is only my opinion, I believe there was a lot of activity besides what Lee Oswald was doing circa Sept-Oct 1963 in Mexico, there, apparently were a whole boatload of people crossing into Mexico in the same time frame, that the US government was closely monitoring, at least in hindsight. That's an area that needs to be resolved, and the HSCA didn't seem to make much of a protest when they realized that 'the people they wanted to talk to' were not available.

There are hundreds of documents that reflect the volume of clandestine communications, taking place within and without Cuba which reflect the intensity of activity going on, what the activity was, is something yet to be fully explained, but I think indicates Cuba in 1963, was to the Agency, what Guatemala was in 1954, or Iran in 1953. There were preparation's for a second invasion, but an X-day, etched in stone were going in, I'm not buyin.

There is a pattern that has emerged, from time to time, over the years that when there has been a [pardon the expression, s _ _ _storm] of media reaction over the years to certain stories [Clay Shaw Trial, Perimendex] combined with media reaction, the nature of 'wer'e going to tell you what really happened,' reactions via media, that is a sign somebody is feeling very disconcerted].

The Dallas aspect of the assassination is the one with the largest amount of bodies laid out, so to speak but [undortunately,] also the area that poses the most puzzling aspects of the whole affair.

A pseudo clue: Aubrey Rike, the ambulance driver who, is a very, very credible individual in one interview went on about how 10-12 days before the assassination that the ambulance company was repeatedly getting false emergency calls indicating that an ambulance was needed in the Dealey Plaza area near the TSBD, the ambulance would go there and find that there was no accident, nada. Then on the morning of the assassination somebody happens to go into a pattern of behavior in which it is surmised that an ambulance is needed. The ambulance is called, pick's up said individual, transports him to the hospital, and he get's up and leaves? In a REAL criminal investigation, coincidence-theory is not accepted as 'an adequate resolution' re suspicious activity in a crime scene scenario, let alone the murder of the Pres. of the United States. So, everyone should really meditate on that one for a moment, because if you explore the ramifications of:

1. What happened

2. The official story

3. How it came to resolution, at least to the Warren Commission's satifaction

Then, you are looking at a dynamic that is an essential mechanism, of how a lot of 'suspicious activity' that day was dealt with, and is dealt with to this day; Then it required a lot of lying, covering up, threats, physical death of witnesses, and intimations to get out of town, if you know what's good for you.

Dallas, Texas has had an acknowledged reputation over the last couple of decades as being a Republican base, but, 43 years later you can still [if you have an opportunity to interact with the older personages in Dallas] get a very large percentage of people who would laugh in your face if you tried to telll them the Warren Commissions conclusions were based in reality. Here in the future home of the..........GBL!

Cyril Wecht is a very courageous individual, who has stated on video that what happened in Dallas, could happen again if America doesen't bring justice to those who orchestrated the events that led to the death of President Kennedy. I will recall a very unpopular remark made concerning Dealey Plaza that perhaps id the most succinct comment ever made by an individual with any degree of notoriety concerning that day in Dallas

Malcolm X was asked how he felt about the assassination of President Kennedy, and he said: "The chicken's have come home to roost."

It was, at the time considered by many Americans to be a very dispariging but, also 43 years later, the most accurate. Why do I say that, because America is the only nation on the face of the earth, which can and did, covertly orchestrate the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr, railroad a patsy, finally be forced to confront and act on the preponderance of evidence to the contrary of the official story and implement a national holiday honoring the slain civil rights leader.

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