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The vehicle parked behind the retaining wall


Lee Forman

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Thanks Jack.

I have to agree with you on this one, if there is a tree there i cannot pin point it. ?

I would like to nail down exactly which tree it is that we can see above the retaining wall in the image below.!

Thanks to Robin's persistence, the "tree" has been found. But it is not a tree.

It is a crepe myrtle, east of the wooden fence. There was a row of small

ones along this fence, and a row of larger ones on the other leg of the fence.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Thanks Jack.

I have to agree with you on this one, if there is a tree there i cannot pin point it. ?

I would like to nail down exactly which trees it is that we can see above the retaining wall in the images below.!

In the Moorman image with the "?" that is the same car seen in Nix. Remember

that Moorman and Nix are on the same line of sight, shooting NORTH, while

the Stoughton color shot with the crepe myrtles is shooting WEST.

Jack

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Thanks Jack.

I have to agree with you on this one, if there is a tree there i cannot pin point it. ?

I would like to nail down exactly which trees it is that we can see above the retaining wall in the images below.!

In the Moorman image with the "?" that is the same car seen in Nix. Remember

that Moorman and Nix are on the same line of sight, shooting NORTH, while

the Stoughton color shot with the crepe myrtles is shooting WEST.

Jack

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Something learned by all it appears.

No 'tree' further back in the parking lot.

The car as seen in Nix, Hughes and Bell does not appear in the Moorman due to the difference in elevation of the photographer / film maker in question.

If Jack is right, and that was a pretty interesting comparison he did, then the car would have been parked close to the fence, and possibly a bit up on the grass, as indicated - this is another view of the vehicle in position one.

Still wondering if it isn't the same '56 Pontiac seen in another location later on in the parking area, and if the truck back there wasn't involved.

- lee

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Nix/Moorman line of sight to car.

What's this ?

Robin...my guess...I think that railroad ties were laid down flat on the ground

to form a curb between the parking lot and the grass. The black part is the

shadow of the ties and the lighter part is the ties. If it were anything tall,

the shadows would be much wider (note other shadows).

Jack

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Robin...a comparison shows the vast difference in points of

view which results in foreshortening of the row of bushes

along the fence in Moorman, who was across the street aiming

north. Stoughton was close to the wall and aiming west.

Jack

Thanks Jack.

Regarding the item in the previous photo " What's this "

Gary Mack says that it is the FENCE.

He said it was much longer in 1963 than it is now, is the item i reffered to just a continuation of the picket fence.

It seems to stick way out into the carpark area. !

This is a CLEAN copy of the stoughton photo.

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I don't know if this will help or hinder, but in the Who Were the Shooters thread, discussion had come up about Ms. Julia Ann Mercer's account as a witness to having seen two men unloading something from a green truck that was parked on Elm Street on the morning of 22 November 1963, under the eye of policemen stationed on the overpass.

In that thread, I said in pertinent part:

As Lane points out, the testimony by both Mercer and Bowers about "two men" is consistent, and taken together is all very consistent (allowing for them taking their jackets off as the day warmed up) with two men doing some kind of work they needed to do—under the watchful eye of policemen—then moving their truck and hanging around to see the President go by—still under the watchful eye of policemen who probably had been watching them the whole time.

..This is at least an approximation of what Bowers described about the two men at issue and at least one of the policemen at that end of the overpass:

20061201twomenfence.jpg

When I encountered this discussion I wondered idly whether the two things could be related, and whether the two men in question might have parked their green truck behind the pergola, maybe in somebody's spot that they shouldn't have taken. Having just put some cars into the TSBD parking lot at Peter Lemkin's request, I discovered that I had a stock pick-up truck (which I painted green) that I could replace one of the cars with at very little effort. So I did that, placing it approximately where I thought such a truck might have had a chance of being seen in the Moorman photo:

2006-1203greentruckTSBD.jpg

The next obvious thing to do was to attempt to approximate Moorman's position and the field of view of the camera. Although I can't claim to have hit it with any surveyor's accuracy, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I could, indeed, see the top of the pick-up truck I had put into the model:

2006-1203moorman-truck.jpg

A host of unknown variables could render all of the above null and void. But I thought some might at least find it of interest.

Ashton

Edited by Ashton Gray
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Robin...a comparison shows the vast difference in points of

view which results in foreshortening of the row of bushes

along the fence in Moorman, who was across the street aiming

north. Stoughton was close to the wall and aiming west.

Jack

Thanks Jack.

Regarding the item in the previous photo " What's this "

Gary Mack says that it is the FENCE.

He said it was much longer in 1963 than it is now, is the item i reffered to just a continuation of the picket fence.

It seems to stick way out into the carpark area. !

This is a CLEAN copy of the stoughton photo.

Robin...IT CANNOT BE A CONTINUATION OF THE FENCE, based on the

shadows. The fence is 5 feet tall. Cars are about 5 feet tall. LOOK AT

THE WIDE SHADOWS CAST BY CARS and compare shadows. In the

late afternoon sun, a 5 foot fence would cast a very long shadow.

Also steel train rails are about four inches tall, and wood rail ties are

about 8 inches tall. Compare the shadows cast by the rails with the

shadows cast by the object in question. They are about twice as tall

as the shadows of the rails, so must be about 8 inches tall. There are

other photos, I think, showing the pergola from the rear, and the

fence was no longer than today.

Jack

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