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The purpose of the ladder?


Guest Mark Valenti
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Guest Mark Valenti

This ladder was rushed into the TSBD after the shooting. Anyone happen to know why? Was it so police could search up and over stacks of boxes? Ceilings? I couldn't find anything in testimony and I was curious why a ladder was needed.

** Got my answer from Gary Mack - the top floor was inaccessible without the ladder.

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This ladder was rushed into the TSBD after the shooting. Anyone happen to know why? Was it so police could search up and over stacks of boxes? Ceilings? I couldn't find anything in testimony and I was curious why a ladder was needed.

** Got my answer from Gary Mack - the top floor was inaccessible without the ladder.

I saw this a few day's ago on a website entitled - JFK Assassination: The British Connection By Mike Royden.

44. British mark on Oswald's gun? Letter Frewin to John Rudd. On 22 November 1963, a British revolver was found in paper bag on roof of TSBD.See: Summers latest Vanity Fair article. Don't have at present I am sure there is a reference to it. Also some FBI?documents have been released about it. Irrelevant take out.

Although Royden offers the disclaimer that, he has not had the time to check out all the 'blurbs' listed on the page, [plus, I have no idea how old the info cited is, mid 1990's?] I thought I would include the above, has anyone else heard of the above item? A revolver being placed on the roof of the TSBD if true, would explain the need and use of a ladder, would it not?

Here is the link

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_th...connection.html

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This ladder was rushed into the TSBD after the shooting. Anyone happen to know why? Was it so police could search up and over stacks of boxes? Ceilings? I couldn't find anything in testimony and I was curious why a ladder was needed.

** Got my answer from Gary Mack - the top floor was inaccessible without the ladder.

I saw this a few day's ago on a website entitled - JFK Assassination: The British Connection By Mike Royden.

44. British mark on Oswald's gun? Letter Frewin to John Rudd. On 22 November 1963, a British revolver was found in paper bag on roof of TSBD.See: Summers latest Vanity Fair article. Don't have at present I am sure there is a reference to it. Also some FBI?documents have been released about it. Irrelevant take out.

Although Royden offers the disclaimer that, he has not had the time to check out all the 'blurbs' listed on the page, [plus, I have no idea how old the info cited is, mid 1990's?] I thought I would include the above, has anyone else heard of the above item? A revolver being placed on the roof of the TSBD if true, would explain the need and use of a ladder, would it not?

Bob, I never heard of a "pistol" being found on the roof, but i have been trying to find out about the "rifle" found on the roof. I saw pictures of it being checked by DPD that was filmed by Erie Mentesana. Definately not the M/C. No sling or scope. I dont know if they would need a ladder to access the roof or not, i would think that there would be a roof access from inside. [steps and door or hatch] Plus i believe there was a fire escape on the Houston St. side or in back. they may have needed it for reaching storage shelves mounted on the wall or suspended from the ceilings if they had any. I was never on the top floor of the TSBD so its just a guess. Hope this helps.

thanks--smitty

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"Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon.

"Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99]"

The above is from:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

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"Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon.

"Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99]"

The above is from:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

The mysterious Smith & Wesson revolver, serial number 893265, is mentioned briefly on page 247 of my book "No Case To Answer". This is in a chapter on Ruby stripper Kathy Kay.

I stated "There is nothing to give credence to a story which circulated a few years ago to the effect that she (Kathy) may have been the blonde lady in her mid-20s who was seen to drop a paper bag, later found to contain a pistol, somewhere in the 'immediate vicinity of the assassination'. This was alleged to have occurred within minutes of the Dealey Plaza shots."

My source note here directs the reader to J. Gary Shaw's comprehensive article 'A Smoking Gun for the Grassy Knoll' published in Dateline Dallas, vol. 1, no. 4 dated 30th December 1994.

In his article, Gary cites Waren Commission document CD5, p. 127. This is a Dallas FBI report of an interview on 24th November 1963 of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman. Part of this report is as follows:

"Weitzman stated that during the time he was running from the intersection of Main and Houston, he observed a blonde woman, 25 to 30 years old, drop a lunch sack at a point about half a block west of the Texas School Book Depository building, but thought nothing of it at the time. He advised, however, that it was later determoned this lunch sack was very similar to the lunch sack found at the sixth floor window where the assassin apparently stationed himself and fired the fatal shot."

The article went on to name three of Ruby's girls - Little Lynn, Kathy Kay and Shari Angel - as being the blonde mystery woman. However, they were by no means the only mid-twenties blondes in Dallas that day.

I would urge everyone interested in learning more about this strange incident, plus a lot of basic information on that pistol, to seek out Gary Shaw's article on the subject. There is far more than I have time and space to mention here.

IAN

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"Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon.

"Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99]"

The above is from:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

The mysterious Smith & Wesson revolver, serial number 893265, is mentioned briefly on page 247 of my book "No Case To Answer". This is in a chapter on Ruby stripper Kathy Kay.

I stated "There is nothing to give credence to a story which circulated a few years ago to the effect that she (Kathy) may have been the blonde lady in her mid-20s who was seen to drop a paper bag, later found to contain a pistol, somewhere in the 'immediate vicinity of the assassination'. This was alleged to have occurred within minutes of the Dealey Plaza shots."

My source note here directs the reader to J. Gary Shaw's comprehensive article 'A Smoking Gun for the Grassy Knoll' published in Dateline Dallas, vol. 1, no. 4 dated 30th December 1994.

In his article, Gary cites Waren Commission document CD5, p. 127. This is a Dallas FBI report of an interview on 24th November 1963 of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman. Part of this report is as follows:

"Weitzman stated that during the time he was running from the intersection of Main and Houston, he observed a blonde woman, 25 to 30 years old, drop a lunch sack at a point about half a block west of the Texas School Book Depository building, but thought nothing of it at the time. He advised, however, that it was later determoned this lunch sack was very similar to the lunch sack found at the sixth floor window where the assassin apparently stationed himself and fired the fatal shot."

The article went on to name three of Ruby's girls - Little Lynn, Kathy Kay and Shari Angel - as being the blonde mystery woman. However, they were by no means the only mid-twenties blondes in Dallas that day.

I would urge everyone interested in learning more about this strange incident, plus a lot of basic information on that pistol, to seek out Gary Shaw's article on the subject. There is far more than I have time and space to mention here.

IAN

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"Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon.

"Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99]"

The above is from:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

The mysterious Smith & Wesson revolver, serial number 893265, is mentioned briefly on page 247 of my book "No Case To Answer". This is in a chapter on Ruby stripper Kathy Kay.

I stated "There is nothing to give credence to a story which circulated a few years ago to the effect that she (Kathy) may have been the blonde lady in her mid-20s who was seen to drop a paper bag, later found to contain a pistol, somewhere in the 'immediate vicinity of the assassination'. This was alleged to have occurred within minutes of the Dealey Plaza shots."

My source note here directs the reader to J. Gary Shaw's comprehensive article 'A Smoking Gun for the Grassy Knoll' published in Dateline Dallas, vol. 1, no. 4 dated 30th December 1994.

In his article, Gary cites Waren Commission document CD5, p. 127. This is a Dallas FBI report of an interview on 24th November 1963 of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman. Part of this report is as follows:

"Weitzman stated that during the time he was running from the intersection of Main and Houston, he observed a blonde woman, 25 to 30 years old, drop a lunch sack at a point about half a block west of the Texas School Book Depository building, but thought nothing of it at the time. He advised, however, that it was later determoned this lunch sack was very similar to the lunch sack found at the sixth floor window where the assassin apparently stationed himself and fired the fatal shot."

The article went on to name three of Ruby's girls - Little Lynn, Kathy Kay and Shari Angel - as being the blonde mystery woman. However, they were by no means the only mid-twenties blondes in Dallas that day.

I would urge everyone interested in learning more about this strange incident, plus a lot of basic information on that pistol, to seek out Gary Shaw's article on the subject. There is far more than I have time and space to mention here.

IAN

Thanks to Robert Charles Dunne for posting this information, it may seem odd to think that something of such an important nature is not a well known fact, but as many know items as the above do happen from time to time , I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

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"Anthony Summers, author of Conspiracy, analyzed an FBI report that detailed the finding of a snub-nose .38 calibre pistol in the Dealey Plaza area. "Just when you think the story holds no more factual surprises, it tends to produce one. We now have an FBI report revealing that, at 7:30 on the morning after the assassination, 'A SNUB NOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND...IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION TOOK PLACE.' So a revolver was found near the Book Depository-- 'IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY,' according to other FBI reports. In spite of repeated Freedom of Information requests by California researcher Bill Adams, the FBI has not revealed how its investigation of the gun was concluded. Whether or not the weapon has any significance, it is a scandal that the public had to wait 30 years to learn that a second gun was found at the scene of the crime." [97] An FBI report (62-109060-638) dated November 29, 1963, marked URGENT, sent to Director and SACS, Dallas, Springfield and Boston reads in part: "BOSTON ADVISED RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS.SHOW THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE ... FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA ... SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON." Clearly some kind of investigation began at the end of November 1963 concerning this handgun. The next day, November 30, 1963, Springfield sent a FBI report (62-109060-858) to "Director and SAC, Dallas" that stated, in part, that "ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER SN 893265 ... COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA." It is clear that the FBI was investigating the history of the revolver, but there is no record as to what the FBI finally concluded about this mysterious weapon.

"Bill Adams has recently published information that the revolver may not have been found in the "immediate vicinity" afterall. An FBI document released in 1978 reported that on 11/23/63 "Patrolman J. Raz brought into the Homicide and Robbery bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith and Wesson. SN 893265 . . . had been found near the curb at the corner or Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat ... " [98] This location is several blocks north of Dealey Plaza. However, Adams rightly notes that there are several questions still unanswered about this revolver: Who was Willie Flat and who interviewed him? Where is the revolver now? [99]"

The above is from:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

The mysterious Smith & Wesson revolver, serial number 893265, is mentioned briefly on page 247 of my book "No Case To Answer". This is in a chapter on Ruby stripper Kathy Kay.

I stated "There is nothing to give credence to a story which circulated a few years ago to the effect that she (Kathy) may have been the blonde lady in her mid-20s who was seen to drop a paper bag, later found to contain a pistol, somewhere in the 'immediate vicinity of the assassination'. This was alleged to have occurred within minutes of the Dealey Plaza shots."

My source note here directs the reader to J. Gary Shaw's comprehensive article 'A Smoking Gun for the Grassy Knoll' published in Dateline Dallas, vol. 1, no. 4 dated 30th December 1994.

In his article, Gary cites Waren Commission document CD5, p. 127. This is a Dallas FBI report of an interview on 24th November 1963 of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman. Part of this report is as follows:

"Weitzman stated that during the time he was running from the intersection of Main and Houston, he observed a blonde woman, 25 to 30 years old, drop a lunch sack at a point about half a block west of the Texas School Book Depository building, but thought nothing of it at the time. He advised, however, that it was later determoned this lunch sack was very similar to the lunch sack found at the sixth floor window where the assassin apparently stationed himself and fired the fatal shot."

The article went on to name three of Ruby's girls - Little Lynn, Kathy Kay and Shari Angel - as being the blonde mystery woman. However, they were by no means the only mid-twenties blondes in Dallas that day.

I would urge everyone interested in learning more about this strange incident, plus a lot of basic information on that pistol, to seek out Gary Shaw's article on the subject. There is far more than I have time and space to mention here.

IAN

Thanks to Robert Charles Dunne for posting this information, it may seem odd to think that something of such an important nature is not a well known fact, but as many know items as the above do happen from time to time , I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

Guess not, or just not worth responding to?

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I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

While I assume it would have been standard protocol for Officer Raz to have filed a report about the handgun being turned in to him, I've never found anything of the sort amongst DPD files. A scan of the inventory index of DPD reports at the Dallas Archives discloses a few other Raz reports, but they all seem to focus on other matters, not the Smith & Wesson. The relevant FBI document seems to be the only extant paperwork on this, which should raise a few other questions about adherence to protocol, and why the Raz doc one would expect to find hasn't been located.

I am unsure what you mean regarding the Oswald/Ruby phone log, Robert.

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I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

While I assume it would have been standard protocol for Officer Raz to have filed a report about the handgun being turned in to him, I've never found anything of the sort amongst DPD files. A scan of the inventory index of DPD reports at the Dallas Archives discloses a few other Raz reports, but they all seem to focus on other matters, not the Smith & Wesson. The relevant FBI document seems to be the only extant paperwork on this, which should raise a few other questions about adherence to protocol, and why the Raz doc one would expect to find hasn't been located.

I am unsure what you mean regarding the Oswald/Ruby phone log, Robert.

I found a reference to it initially in John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee page 768, recounted here in it's entirety:

Telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald

Chuck Broyles ran a late night talk show on KLIF radio in Dallas and frequesntly discussed the assassination with callers. One evening an unidentified woman called and told Broyles, and the listening audience, there were telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald. The woman explained that she worked as a telephone operator in the WHitehall exchange and not only remebered the calls, but said the telephone company had records of the calls.

The woman explained that when Ruby tried to call Oswald, and was unable to get through because the pay phone Oswald was using was busy, he would call the operator and tell her that his call was an emergency. The operator would then interrupt the call, ask the callers to get off the line, and make a record of the call as required by the phone company. The woman said that Ruby used this trick so frequently that she remembered his name and his numerous calls.

These "emergency call records" mentioned by the unidentified telephone operator may have been given to the Dallas Police by the Area commercial manager of Southwestern Bell, Raymond Acker. Acker took phone company records to the Dallas Police Department after the assassination and told the police they were proof of calls between Ruby and Oswald. Acker said that after he gave the records to the Dallas Police, he was told to go home and keep his mouth shut. Footnote [112]

NOTE: Phone calls within the Dallas area, which included Irving and Oak Cliff, were not toll calls and were not recorded by the phone company. The only local calls that were recorded by the phone company were 'emergency' calls [which the operator said Ruby placed to Oswald.]

Some of Jack Ruby's "emergency" phone calls may have caused Oswald to return calls to the Carousel Club. In the day's leading up to the assassination Ruby's handyman, Larry Crafard received many phone calls from an unknown male who never identified himself or left a message. Crafard told the Warren Commission, "This gentleman would call maybe two or three times a day asking for Jack. He would ask where he could reach Jack. It sounded like it was pretty important that he reach Jack, and that he would never leave a number where Jack could call him back at. [113] When Carfard asked Ruby about these strange telphone calls he was told to mind his own business.

NOTE: On November 26, 1963 Larry Carfard told SA John Flanagan that Jack Ruby's phone number was WHitehall 1-5601. [114] On November 29, 1963 Crafard told SA Theodore Cramer that Ruby's unlisted phone number was WHitehall1-8993. [115] There is no indication the FBI checked telephone company records for emergency calls placed to and from these numbers.

Footnote 112 - Memorandum from Matt Heron to Jim Garrison 09/16/1967

Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354; WC Testimony of Curtis Laverne Crafard 14H 73

Footnote 114 - FBI Interview of Larry Crafard by SA John Flanagan, 11/26/1963

Footnote 115 - Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354.

END

It appears to me there are two error's in the text, one is where the word "pay" appears before the word phone; Oswald would be calling Ruby from 1026 N Beckley if Ruby is calling back immediately to 1026 N Beckley expecting Oswald to be there; also there is the word callers; only one person at a time has a phone conversation with another person, thus the use of the word in the plural is rather sloppy]

So that I wouldn't be judged as being partial to John Armstrong, I searched the Warren Commission Report for any references to Ray Acker, to my amazement there was a quote by Charles Greener, the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop, [ie Dial Ryder.]

Here is the excerpt:

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you do reloading of casings?

Mr. Greener.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

The fellow has to do that himself?

Mr. Greener.

We sell the components and the loading equipment but we don't do any loading. The only one that I have been able to find out so far that hand loads 6.5 Italian--I don't think this is a possibility, but Ray Acker with Bell Telephone is the only one I know that does any hand loading on 6.5 Italians.

Mr. Liebeler.

He works for Bell Telephone Co.?

Mr. Greener.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

He does this as a part-time occupation?

Mr. Greener.

Hobby; yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you talked to him about this case at all?

Mr. Greener.

No; I don't guess I have ever called him. How I came to know that he reloads, and I don't know to what extent that he reloads, but 1 called one of my suppliers as to the availability of 6.5 Italian, and he gave me his name, so that is the reason but I can't say, but as far as I know, he is the only one that loads 6.5. There may be others that buy their own dies and hand loading, more especially since there are more guns coming out, but that would be, oh, a year and a haft ago when I was told that he hand loaded 6.5 Italians.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=263

If any Forum Members reading this are a little perplexed by this information, I will not pretend that I am not.

But I will state the obvious, this deserves a great deal of attention.

Final Comment: The truth is a nation's most precious commodity, if one watches the old newsreel footage showing Oswald being brought in to DPD Headquarters, on that fateful day, one will hear the voice over of the announcer state in a manner that would make Edward R. Murrow green with envy [quoting Oswald mind you]

"Here in Dallas, the man all America is looking at, at this time is 24 year old Lee H. Oswald, being interrogated at the Dallas City Police Building. At the time of his arrest in a Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. He was subdued after killing a Dallas Police Officer with a snub-nosed revolver, struggling with another officer, striking him with that pistol. And during that struggle he was heard to shout: It's all over now, I've got me a President and a cop and I'll go for two more. A fanatic in every sense of the word."

END

See: The Men Who Killed Kennedy Disk 2 [The Patsy]

And people ask me why I despise the Gerald Posner's of the world.

Cheers

Consider this as from the "Better Late than Never Dept,"

The following is from the invaluable website maryferrell.org

Record: FLAT, WILLIE -----

Sources: FBI Dallas Field Office SA to FBI Dallas Field Office SAC, 89-43-636

Mary's

Comments: On Nov 25, 1963, FBI report of Dallas Patrolman J. Raz bringing into Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, Serial # 893265. It has been found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat. In 1963, there was NO "Flat" in Texas. There was a Willis Earl Flatt, 1023 Mount Auburn Ave., Dallas, TX 75223-1533 (214) 827-0382. In 1963, he was a mechanic at Southwest Coach Company on East Northwest Highway. He is living in same house on Mount Auburn in 1996.

Oh,......the old......guess we got the name kinda wrong trick, you know, that can really come in handy. Funny thing, if there wasn't any conspiracy then why have I seen that about a bazillion times?

Was there not a report of a very tall individual with blond hair and a crew cut, seen at, or near that intersection, carrying a rifle case, ostensibly with a rifle inside? Wonder where he was headed, in the 10:00 O'Clock hour?

Edited by Robert Howard
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  • 4 weeks later...

I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

While I assume it would have been standard protocol for Officer Raz to have filed a report about the handgun being turned in to him, I've never found anything of the sort amongst DPD files. A scan of the inventory index of DPD reports at the Dallas Archives discloses a few other Raz reports, but they all seem to focus on other matters, not the Smith & Wesson. The relevant FBI document seems to be the only extant paperwork on this, which should raise a few other questions about adherence to protocol, and why the Raz doc one would expect to find hasn't been located.

I am unsure what you mean regarding the Oswald/Ruby phone log, Robert.

I found a reference to it initially in John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee page 768, recounted here in it's entirety:

Telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald

Chuck Broyles ran a late night talk show on KLIF radio in Dallas and frequesntly discussed the assassination with callers. One evening an unidentified woman called and told Broyles, and the listening audience, there were telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald. The woman explained that she worked as a telephone operator in the WHitehall exchange and not only remebered the calls, but said the telephone company had records of the calls.

The woman explained that when Ruby tried to call Oswald, and was unable to get through because the pay phone Oswald was using was busy, he would call the operator and tell her that his call was an emergency. The operator would then interrupt the call, ask the callers to get off the line, and make a record of the call as required by the phone company. The woman said that Ruby used this trick so frequently that she remembered his name and his numerous calls.

These "emergency call records" mentioned by the unidentified telephone operator may have been given to the Dallas Police by the Area commercial manager of Southwestern Bell, Raymond Acker. Acker took phone company records to the Dallas Police Department after the assassination and told the police they were proof of calls between Ruby and Oswald. Acker said that after he gave the records to the Dallas Police, he was told to go home and keep his mouth shut. Footnote [112]

NOTE: Phone calls within the Dallas area, which included Irving and Oak Cliff, were not toll calls and were not recorded by the phone company. The only local calls that were recorded by the phone company were 'emergency' calls [which the operator said Ruby placed to Oswald.]

Some of Jack Ruby's "emergency" phone calls may have caused Oswald to return calls to the Carousel Club. In the day's leading up to the assassination Ruby's handyman, Larry Crafard received many phone calls from an unknown male who never identified himself or left a message. Crafard told the Warren Commission, "This gentleman would call maybe two or three times a day asking for Jack. He would ask where he could reach Jack. It sounded like it was pretty important that he reach Jack, and that he would never leave a number where Jack could call him back at. [113] When Carfard asked Ruby about these strange telphone calls he was told to mind his own business.

NOTE: On November 26, 1963 Larry Carfard told SA John Flanagan that Jack Ruby's phone number was WHitehall 1-5601. [114] On November 29, 1963 Crafard told SA Theodore Cramer that Ruby's unlisted phone number was WHitehall1-8993. [115] There is no indication the FBI checked telephone company records for emergency calls placed to and from these numbers.

Footnote 112 - Memorandum from Matt Heron to Jim Garrison 09/16/1967

Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354; WC Testimony of Curtis Laverne Crafard 14H 73

Footnote 114 - FBI Interview of Larry Crafard by SA John Flanagan, 11/26/1963

Footnote 115 - Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354.

END

It appears to me there are two error's in the text, one is where the word "pay" appears before the word phone; Oswald would be calling Ruby from 1026 N Beckley if Ruby is calling back immediately to 1026 N Beckley expecting Oswald to be there; also there is the word callers; only one person at a time has a phone conversation with another person, thus the use of the word in the plural is rather sloppy]

So that I wouldn't be judged as being partial to John Armstrong, I searched the Warren Commission Report for any references to Ray Acker, to my amazement there was a quote by Charles Greener, the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop, [ie Dial Ryder.]

Here is the excerpt:

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you do reloading of casings?

Mr. Greener.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

The fellow has to do that himself?

Mr. Greener.

We sell the components and the loading equipment but we don't do any loading. The only one that I have been able to find out so far that hand loads 6.5 Italian--I don't think this is a possibility, but Ray Acker with Bell Telephone is the only one I know that does any hand loading on 6.5 Italians.

Mr. Liebeler.

He works for Bell Telephone Co.?

Mr. Greener.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

He does this as a part-time occupation?

Mr. Greener.

Hobby; yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you talked to him about this case at all?

Mr. Greener.

No; I don't guess I have ever called him. How I came to know that he reloads, and I don't know to what extent that he reloads, but 1 called one of my suppliers as to the availability of 6.5 Italian, and he gave me his name, so that is the reason but I can't say, but as far as I know, he is the only one that loads 6.5. There may be others that buy their own dies and hand loading, more especially since there are more guns coming out, but that would be, oh, a year and a haft ago when I was told that he hand loaded 6.5 Italians.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=263

If any Forum Members reading this are a little perplexed by this information, I will not pretend that I am not.

But I will state the obvious, this deserves a great deal of attention.

Final Comment: The truth is a nation's most precious commodity, if one watches the old newsreel footage showing Oswald being brought in to DPD Headquarters, on that fateful day, one will hear the voice over of the announcer state in a manner that would make Edward R. Murrow green with envy [quoting Oswald mind you]

"Here in Dallas, the man all America is looking at, at this time is 24 year old Lee H. Oswald, being interrogated at the Dallas City Police Building. At the time of his arrest in a Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. He was subdued after killing a Dallas Police Officer with a snub-nosed revolver, struggling with another officer, striking him with that pistol. And during that struggle he was heard to shout: It's all over now, I've got me a President and a cop and I'll go for two more. A fanatic in every sense of the word."

END

See: The Men Who Killed Kennedy Disk 2 [The Patsy]

And people ask me why I despise the Gerald Posner's of the world.

Cheers

Consider this as from the "Better Late than Never Dept,"

The following is from the invaluable website maryferrell.org

Record: FLAT, WILLIE -----

Sources: FBI Dallas Field Office SA to FBI Dallas Field Office SAC, 89-43-636

Mary's

Comments: On Nov 25, 1963, FBI report of Dallas Patrolman J. Raz bringing into Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, Serial # 893265. It has been found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat. In 1963, there was NO "Flat" in Texas. There was a Willis Earl Flatt, 1023 Mount Auburn Ave., Dallas, TX 75223-1533 (214) 827-0382. In 1963, he was a mechanic at Southwest Coach Company on East Northwest Highway. He is living in same house on Mount Auburn in 1996.

Oh,......the old......guess we got the name kinda wrong trick, you know, that can really come in handy. Funny thing, if there wasn't any conspiracy then why have I seen that about a bazillion times?

Was there not a report of a very tall individual with blond hair and a crew cut, seen at, or near that intersection, carrying a rifle case, ostensibly with a rifle inside? Wonder where he was headed, in the 10:00 O'Clock hour?

So Willis Earl Flat found the revolver.......before anyone writes all this off as very insignificant, it should be mentioned that.......

HANDGUN, ----- -----

Sources: CD 205, pp. 130-131 (LHO's gun); FBI 62-109060-485, FBI 62-109060-638, FBI 62-109060-857, FBI 62-109060-858 (gun found at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63 on Grassy Knoll in Dealey Plaza); JFK Collection List, pg. 23 (AMKW 61); FBI 89-43-636

Mary's

Comments: Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber Weapon, SN V510210 (LHO's gun). Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber revolver, SN 893265 (gun found on Grassy Knoll at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63). This was an error. Gun was found at Ross and Lamar streets by one Willie Flat. The HSCA test-fired a .38 Caliber pistol from the Grassy Knoll (see HSCA, Vol II, pp. 51, 102, 120).

Must have felt it was important

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I am personally amazed that this document has been such an obscure item. It certainly shouldn't have been. Now if the Oswald/Ruby phone log can be located. Robert, or Ian are you familiar with that story.

While I assume it would have been standard protocol for Officer Raz to have filed a report about the handgun being turned in to him, I've never found anything of the sort amongst DPD files. A scan of the inventory index of DPD reports at the Dallas Archives discloses a few other Raz reports, but they all seem to focus on other matters, not the Smith & Wesson. The relevant FBI document seems to be the only extant paperwork on this, which should raise a few other questions about adherence to protocol, and why the Raz doc one would expect to find hasn't been located.

I am unsure what you mean regarding the Oswald/Ruby phone log, Robert.

I found a reference to it initially in John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee page 768, recounted here in it's entirety:

Telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald

Chuck Broyles ran a late night talk show on KLIF radio in Dallas and frequesntly discussed the assassination with callers. One evening an unidentified woman called and told Broyles, and the listening audience, there were telephone calls between Ruby and Oswald. The woman explained that she worked as a telephone operator in the WHitehall exchange and not only remebered the calls, but said the telephone company had records of the calls.

The woman explained that when Ruby tried to call Oswald, and was unable to get through because the pay phone Oswald was using was busy, he would call the operator and tell her that his call was an emergency. The operator would then interrupt the call, ask the callers to get off the line, and make a record of the call as required by the phone company. The woman said that Ruby used this trick so frequently that she remembered his name and his numerous calls.

These "emergency call records" mentioned by the unidentified telephone operator may have been given to the Dallas Police by the Area commercial manager of Southwestern Bell, Raymond Acker. Acker took phone company records to the Dallas Police Department after the assassination and told the police they were proof of calls between Ruby and Oswald. Acker said that after he gave the records to the Dallas Police, he was told to go home and keep his mouth shut. Footnote [112]

NOTE: Phone calls within the Dallas area, which included Irving and Oak Cliff, were not toll calls and were not recorded by the phone company. The only local calls that were recorded by the phone company were 'emergency' calls [which the operator said Ruby placed to Oswald.]

Some of Jack Ruby's "emergency" phone calls may have caused Oswald to return calls to the Carousel Club. In the day's leading up to the assassination Ruby's handyman, Larry Crafard received many phone calls from an unknown male who never identified himself or left a message. Crafard told the Warren Commission, "This gentleman would call maybe two or three times a day asking for Jack. He would ask where he could reach Jack. It sounded like it was pretty important that he reach Jack, and that he would never leave a number where Jack could call him back at. [113] When Carfard asked Ruby about these strange telphone calls he was told to mind his own business.

NOTE: On November 26, 1963 Larry Carfard told SA John Flanagan that Jack Ruby's phone number was WHitehall 1-5601. [114] On November 29, 1963 Crafard told SA Theodore Cramer that Ruby's unlisted phone number was WHitehall1-8993. [115] There is no indication the FBI checked telephone company records for emergency calls placed to and from these numbers.

Footnote 112 - Memorandum from Matt Heron to Jim Garrison 09/16/1967

Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354; WC Testimony of Curtis Laverne Crafard 14H 73

Footnote 114 - FBI Interview of Larry Crafard by SA John Flanagan, 11/26/1963

Footnote 115 - Footnote 113 - WC Crafard Exhibit 5226 Volume 19, page 354.

END

It appears to me there are two error's in the text, one is where the word "pay" appears before the word phone; Oswald would be calling Ruby from 1026 N Beckley if Ruby is calling back immediately to 1026 N Beckley expecting Oswald to be there; also there is the word callers; only one person at a time has a phone conversation with another person, thus the use of the word in the plural is rather sloppy]

So that I wouldn't be judged as being partial to John Armstrong, I searched the Warren Commission Report for any references to Ray Acker, to my amazement there was a quote by Charles Greener, the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop, [ie Dial Ryder.]

Here is the excerpt:

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you do reloading of casings?

Mr. Greener.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

The fellow has to do that himself?

Mr. Greener.

We sell the components and the loading equipment but we don't do any loading. The only one that I have been able to find out so far that hand loads 6.5 Italian--I don't think this is a possibility, but Ray Acker with Bell Telephone is the only one I know that does any hand loading on 6.5 Italians.

Mr. Liebeler.

He works for Bell Telephone Co.?

Mr. Greener.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

He does this as a part-time occupation?

Mr. Greener.

Hobby; yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you talked to him about this case at all?

Mr. Greener.

No; I don't guess I have ever called him. How I came to know that he reloads, and I don't know to what extent that he reloads, but 1 called one of my suppliers as to the availability of 6.5 Italian, and he gave me his name, so that is the reason but I can't say, but as far as I know, he is the only one that loads 6.5. There may be others that buy their own dies and hand loading, more especially since there are more guns coming out, but that would be, oh, a year and a haft ago when I was told that he hand loaded 6.5 Italians.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=263

If any Forum Members reading this are a little perplexed by this information, I will not pretend that I am not.

But I will state the obvious, this deserves a great deal of attention.

Final Comment: The truth is a nation's most precious commodity, if one watches the old newsreel footage showing Oswald being brought in to DPD Headquarters, on that fateful day, one will hear the voice over of the announcer state in a manner that would make Edward R. Murrow green with envy [quoting Oswald mind you]

"Here in Dallas, the man all America is looking at, at this time is 24 year old Lee H. Oswald, being interrogated at the Dallas City Police Building. At the time of his arrest in a Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. He was subdued after killing a Dallas Police Officer with a snub-nosed revolver, struggling with another officer, striking him with that pistol. And during that struggle he was heard to shout: It's all over now, I've got me a President and a cop and I'll go for two more. A fanatic in every sense of the word."

END

See: The Men Who Killed Kennedy Disk 2 [The Patsy]

And people ask me why I despise the Gerald Posner's of the world.

Cheers

Consider this as from the "Better Late than Never Dept,"

The following is from the invaluable website maryferrell.org

Record: FLAT, WILLIE -----

Sources: FBI Dallas Field Office SA to FBI Dallas Field Office SAC, 89-43-636

Mary's

Comments: On Nov 25, 1963, FBI report of Dallas Patrolman J. Raz bringing into Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, Serial # 893265. It has been found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat. In 1963, there was NO "Flat" in Texas. There was a Willis Earl Flatt, 1023 Mount Auburn Ave., Dallas, TX 75223-1533 (214) 827-0382. In 1963, he was a mechanic at Southwest Coach Company on East Northwest Highway. He is living in same house on Mount Auburn in 1996.

Oh,......the old......guess we got the name kinda wrong trick, you know, that can really come in handy. Funny thing, if there wasn't any conspiracy then why have I seen that about a bazillion times?

Was there not a report of a very tall individual with blond hair and a crew cut, seen at, or near that intersection, carrying a rifle case, ostensibly with a rifle inside? Wonder where he was headed, in the 10:00 O'Clock hour?

So Willis Earl Flatt found the revolver, albeit not anywhere near the TSBD......

HANDGUN, ----- -----

Sources: CD 205, pp. 130-131 (LHO's gun); FBI 62-109060-485, FBI 62-109060-638, FBI 62-109060-857, FBI 62-109060-858 (gun found at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63 on Grassy Knoll in Dealey Plaza); JFK Collection List, pg. 23 (AMKW 61); FBI 89-43-636

Mary's

Comments: Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber Weapon, SN V510210 (LHO's gun). Smith and Wesson .38 Caliber revolver, SN 893265 (gun found on Grassy Knoll at 7:30 a.m., 11/23/63). This was an error. Gun was found at Ross and Lamar streets by one Willie Flat. The HSCA test-fired a .38 Caliber pistol from the Grassy Knoll (see HSCA, Vol II, pp. 51, 102, 120).

Must have felt it was important;

If anyone was wondering......Jack Ruby used a Cobra .38 Special with the serial number 2744 LW to kill Lee Harvey Oswald

from: Wikipedia................

A JFK Chronology mentions that on November 5, 1963 "David Ferrie purchases a .38 caliber revolver. AOT"

If anyone has ever heard of "mysterious deaths in the JFK Assassination then maybe the name David Goldstein is familiar.......

GOLDSTEIN, DAVID -----

Sources: CD 7, pp. 225-228; The Killing of a President, Groden, p. 99

Mary's

Comments: Owner Dave's House of Guns, 2544 Elm, Dallas. One of 4 main importers of weapons in U.S. On 12/2/63, when shown a photograph of Smith & Wesson .38 revolver which killed Tippit, Goldstein "felt" the gun was probably handled by George Rose & Co., Inc., 1225 S. Grand Ave., Los Angeles. Died in 1965.......

Edited by Robert Howard
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  • 10 years later...

Guest Mark Valenti

  • Guest Mark Valenti
  • Guests

quote: This ladder was rushed into the TSBD after the shooting. Anyone happen to know why? Was it so police could search up and over stacks of boxes? Ceilings? I couldn't find anything in testimony and I was curious why a ladder was needed.

** Got my answer from Gary Mack - the top floor was inaccessible without the ladder.

close quote

 

That would be the attic, above the 7th floor, with the scuttle-like windows ...  I remember that I read, a couple of months ago, that the 7th floor was locked with a padlock from outside, when Truly and Baker reached it some two minutes after the shooting ... But I can't remember the source ... 

KK

Edited by Karl Kinaski
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