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  • 2 years later...
Guest Tom Scully

The link displayed above to John Simkin's bio of Nelson Rockefeller is currectly working. IMO, Nelson Rockefeller doesn't warrant a new thread in his name.

The background for this post is here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=172096

Included in the post linked above is the coincidence of William Morse Agency VP George Wood taking a "tumble" in the night club owned by Joe Cataldo, and dying just a few days later: http://books.google.com/books?q=nasty+tumb...nG=Search+Books

The sudden death of Mr. Wood, discoverer of the French Scopitone Video Jukebox, resulted in a $2 million windfall for Alvin Malnik, profits for all other investors including Joe Cataldo, and later, a prison sentence for Vincent "Jimmy Blue Eyes" Alo.

This 1976 Magazine Article documents how then New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller knowingly covered up, a bribery scheme aimed at awarding a State Racing Commission license to a "clean" figurehead track operator. Rockefeller sat on this knowledge of official corruption for at least five years, covering a possible tip off he received from friend Joseph Pew of Sun Oil, in April, 1959 when the tainted track license was granted. NYC DA Frank Hogan's investigators finally uncovered and prosecuted this case in 1964, no thanks to Nelson Rockefeller. Although he was aware that the process awarding the track license to a Mr. Maguire was corrupted, Gov. Rockefeller remained silent and did not call for any inquiry.

Organized crime activity in New York state had to still be fresh in Rockefeller's mind, as the legendery "bust" of the Apalachin, NY "conference", was only two years before:



New York Magazine - Google Books Result

Jun 14, 1976 - 96 pages - Magazine

Low Politics in Albany - Rockefeller Finesses a Scandal By Michael Kramer and Sam Roberts ". ... in his first term as governor of New York been exposed. ...

As the 1976 article reports, Rockefeller worked to keep the GOP state party chairman, Judson Morhouse in office after he was aware the man was a criminal, lending, along with his brother, Laurence, large personal sums that ultimately did not keep the GOP party chairman out of prison. Gov. Rockefeller later used his pardon power to clearly give the man special and quite questionable release from prison, making an untrue comparison of the man's health, "worse" than all other state prisoners!

At the heart of this is, four years after Rockefeller chose to coverup, the Mafia figure at the center of the race track license fraud received a telephone call logged on Jack Ruby's home telephone bill in the summer of 1963......

Excerpts from Joe Cataldo's 1972 congressional committee testimony are posted below. Committee investigators suspected that behind the bribe was an effort to secure beverage/parking concessions at the Finger Lakes NY, track for Emprise, owned by the Lou Jacob's family of Buffalo, NY. Joe Cataldo was married to Lousie Anastasia, niece of "Murder Incorporated's" main man, Albert Anastasia.

Since the "problem" continued to cast a pall over Rockefeller's reputation 15 years later, and because so much of the background is to be found in congressional records, why on earth did an xxstanding former Warren Commissioner and appointed US president, Gerald Ford, appoint Nelson Rockefeller as Vice President of the US ?


Rockefeller's Testimony Raises a Morhouse Issue; Conflict in Dates

- New York Times - Nov 15, 1974

Gold said he was told Conflict in Dates Bank Records However, the date ... and a at the dais a little huddle was racketeer, Joseph Cataldo, to held.




On July 7, 1963, a call was placed from RUBY'S home telephone to Gloversville, New York.

George Senator, a close associate of RUBY'S during the Summer of 1963, was originally from

Gloversville and this led many researchers to believe that this call was placed by him. When

the FBI investigated this call the Bureau found that the telephone number in Gloversville

belonged to Joe "The Wop" Cataldo, who the Bureau described as "a top New York hoodlum."

A few days before the FBI traced the toll call, FBI informant number "KY-4003-C-TE" advised

that JACK RUBY obtained talent for his Dallas club through Joe "The Wop" Cataldo during the

late 1950's. On December 11, 1963, Joe Cataldo was exhibited a photograph of RUBY by the

FBI. He denied any relationship at any time with RUBY. The FBI never asked Joe Cataldo if he

knew George Senator, this despite the fact that in the Fall of 1963, George Senator was

RUBY'S roommate. In 1964 the Warren Commission, in it's report, stated: "It is difficult to know

with complete certainty whether Senator had any foreknowledge of the shooting of OSWALD."

On February 29, 1980, Joe Cataldo, who was described as a New York City loan shark, was

accused of participating in a million dollar plot to sabotage the "Black Tuna" drug smuggling

trial in Miami, Florida. This alleged plot involved plans to assassinate trial Judge James

Lawrence King, pay off key government witnesses, and otherwise disrupt the trial. [FBI NY-

1639-2396, NY44-974-152; NY 24016-655; NY 44-1639-1556; 44-1639 4p teletype 11.28.63

Dallas to Albany]




Organized crime in sports (racing).: Hearings, Ninety-second Congress ...‎ - Page 617

by United States. Congress. House. Select Committee on Crime

....On April 10, 1959, Morris Gold flew to the State of Pennsylvania

where he received $100000 in cash from the Nilon brothers and delivered it to the

State of Florida where he, in turn, delivered it to Assemblyman Mintz.

Assemblyman Mintz told Mr. Gold that he was going to the Americana Hotel to deliver this monev to L

. Judson Morhouse, who he represented was on vacation there with his wife.

We obtained a hotel registration card from the Americana Hotel at this time. Mr. Morhouse was never questioned about this because he invoked his constitutional

privilege against self-incrimination at some later time in the investigation, and he had already been indicted in connection with a State

liquor authority investigation involving the Plavboy Clubs in New York City.

He was subsequently convicted of the State liquor authority bribery charge.

After the money had been passed to Assemblyman Mintz, and after Mintz had represented that he had delivered it to Mr. Morhouse,

sometime in early May of 1959, Assemblyman Mintz and Morris Gold drove to the city of New York and after Mr. Mintz

left Mr. Gold's company for a short time he came back with $100000 in cash in a paper bag. He told Mr. Gold that Mr. Morhouse had returned the money.

When Mr. Gold asked for an explanation, Mr. Minsk told him that all that Mr. Morhouse told

Minsk was that the Governor had found out about this, and when Mr. Morhouse was questioned about it. had reported that a political contribution of $100000 in cash had been made by the Nilon brothers. The Governor allegedly told Mr. Morhouse to give the the money back under those circumstances.

Mr. Gold had this money and he returned to the Sullivan County area in upstate New York where he came from. His home is up there and his business is up there.

He placed it in a safe deposit box. Shortly after that time the Nilons indicated they were going to come up and pick up the money. On the day that they were to come to pick up the money, Mr. Gold received a telephone call from none other than Joseph Cataldo, the underworld figure who I have referred to before. Mr. Cataldo said, "I understand that the Nilons are coming to pick \ip their money. Let's talk about it before you give it back." So a meeting was held in a restaurant at the Harriman exit of the New York State Thruway which was halfway between the New York City area and the Sullivan County area, where Mr. Mintz and Mr. Gold came from. At this meeting, Assemblyman Mintz and Gold met with Cataldo and certain other persons.

Cataldo tried to persuade Gold not to give the money back, indicating that one Harris Osman, one of the promoters of the track, owed money to Gold and the track owed money to Cataldo for the so-called finder's fee. In any event, despite these requests, Mr. Gold went back to the the Sullivan County area and gave that money back to the Nilons when they came there that day.

Mr. PHILLIPS. The $100000, as I understand it, was paid to Mr. Morhouse and then ultimately returned when the Governor learned of it ?

Mr. GOLDSTEIN. That is what the testimony was, yes. .....

The name, "Mr. Catalog" displayed in the transcript of testimony below, is an error repeated often in the transcript. "Catalog" is "Cataldo":


Organized crime in sports (racing).: Hearings, Ninety-second Congress ...‎ - Page 630

by United States. Congress. House. Select Committee on Crime - Social Science - 1973 - 1853 pages

...Mr. Joseph Cataldo is our next witness.

Please stand while I swear you in.

You do solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, Mr. Cataldo ?


ORGANIZED CRIME FIGURE, NEW YORK, NY (Having been duly sworn by the chairman)

Mr. CATALDO. I do.

Mr. WALDIE. Mr. Cataldo, I note you are not represented by counsel. Is that at your own request, that you did not desire counsel ?

Mr. CATALDO. I did not ask for counsel.

Mr. WALDIE. Our committee rules permit a witness to make a determination as to whether he desires to be photographed.

Mr. CATALDO. I prefer not to be photographed.

Mr. WALDIE. We will honor that request. Counsel, you may proceed.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Mr. Cataldo, will you tell me where you are staying presently ? I believe it is at Lewisburg.

Mr. CATALDO. Lewisburg Penitentiary.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Can you tell us for what crime you are presently serving time?

Mr. CATALDO. Conspiracy.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Can you tell us the nature of that conspiracy, just briefly ?

Mr. CATALDO. It was supposed to be transportation of of stocks.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Transportation of stolen securities across State lines?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Could you tell us whether or not you ever became interested in a racetrack enterprise ?

Mr. CATALOG. In a racetrack ? If you are referring to Finger Lakes Raceway my only interest there was to get someone that was acceptable to the commission

in the Finger Lakes Raceway.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Can you explain to me what that means ?

Mr. CATALOG. Well, it means somebody that could front in order to pick up the license that was that was supposed to be available to be given.

Mr. PHILLIPS. You say you wanted someone to front this situation ?

Mr. CATALOG. Not me, no. They asked me if I was able to get someone that would be acceptable to the to the commissioner of racing.

Mr. PHILLIPS. What was it that caused them not to have someone themselves?

Mr. CATALOG. They couldn't get anyone that could front and be acceptable to the commission.

Mr. PHILLIPS. You say someone. Who couldn't get someone to front to front this operation?

Mr. CATALOG. A fellow by the name of Bill Levin and Harry Osman.

Mr. PHILLIPS. They needed someone to front this operation ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. What kind of a person did they want to front the operation?

Mr. CATALOG. Well, they needed a good American person with money behind him and good background to front it.

Mr. PHILLIPS. And they couldn't find anybody like that ?

Mr. Cataldo. They couldn't get anyone.

Mr. Phillips. Can you tell me what, if anything, you were going to get for finding this front man?

Mr. CATALOG. $100000 finder's fee.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Mr. PHILLIPS. You were going to get $100000 just to find a front man ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. What did you do to find this front man ?

Mr. CATALOG. I asked the manager of the hotel, the Belmont Plaza, Bob Sarason, would he be able to get anyone that would be acceptable to the commission to front the racetrack for Osman and Bill Levin, which had an office in the Belmont Plaza at the time. But they hadn't asked Bob Sarason. I was friendly with him and I asked him and he said, "Yes, I think we can get someone." He had various people. One of the outfits was Howard Johnson ; a fellow by the name of Chrysler, Kennedy, and then there was a Maguire which was acceptable to the commission.

Mr. PHILLIPS. This fellow Sarason is actually the fellow who found Maguire?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Maguire was going to front for this other group that actually owned the track ?

Mr. CATALOG. I don't know anything about who was going to front for the group that owned the track. I think Maguire and company, whoever got in there took over the racetrack. I don't know how or why because I wasn't involved in anything other than to bring the man up front is all, which we did. We brought in Maguire.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Did there come a time when you had trouble getting your $100000 ?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes. We didn't get it. At one time thev were going to give us a check for for $100000, $50000 apiece. All we had was a piece of paper. And then they wanted to give us some stock. I said, "I will take it in stock. I will take it anyway." Then they wanted to give us a piece of the concession, which we never got anything. We had to sue and we sued and then we settled for $15000. Forty percent of that went to the lawyer and we wound up with $4500 apiece. That was about the size of the whole situation.

Mr. PHILLIPS. You say they offered you stock in the track as well ?

Mr. CATALOG. They had offered us that but thev never delivered the stock. They offered us a piece of the concession, which was never delivered.Nothing

was ever delivered other than when we sued we got the §15000.

Mr. PHILLIPS. How much stock did they offer you ?

Mr. CATALOG. Well, equivalent to the $100000 we were supposed to get ; $50000 apiece.

Mr. PHILLIPS. You and Sarason ?

Mr. CATALOG. Right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. And Sarason is actually the fellow who found Maguire, the front man ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Did you say you -were offered a piece of the concession ?

Mr. CATALOG. Either the stock or the concession, something equivalent to make up the $100000 that was offered for the finder's fee.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Which concessions were you offered ?

Mr. CATALOG. I am not too sure. It is a long time ago. It could have been the parking lot concession.

Mr. PHILLIPS. We just heard testimony here relating to $100.000 or $125000 payoffs which were going to be made to certain officials of the Republican Party and certain officials of the Democratic Party.

Mr. CATALOG. I wouldn't know anything about that. I wasn't involved in anything, payoffs or anything of that sort. All I was involved in was in getting someone to front. I called Bob Sarason and he thought he could get someone. He said, "Well, we will have a $100000 commission if we do." That is as far as I was concerned with the track.

Mr. PHILLIPS. You didn't have anything further to do with raising any money to obtain the track ?

Mr. CATALOG. None whatsoever.

Mr-. PHILLIPS. I have no further questions

Mr. WALDIE. Who were the plaintiffs or defendants in your law suit for your $100000 ? Who were the named defendants ?

Mr. CATALOG. I think it was Finger Lakes Raceway and Jack Maguire. I believe that is what it was. I am not sure.

Mr. WALDIE. Were Osman and Levin involved ?

Mr. CATALOG. I don't think we were suing them because they were out of the picture entirely, I believe, by that time. So we had to sue Maguire and Finger Lakes Raceway.

Mr, Waldie. What happened to Osman and Levin ?

Mr. CATALOG. I wouldn't know.

Mr. WALDIE. When did they get out of the picture ?

Mr. CATALOG. I wouldn't know that.

Mr. WALDIE. Did they get out of the picture ?

Mr. CATALOG. I couldn't answer that.

Mr. WALDIE. Were you aware they were out of the picture when you did not name them as defendants ? They are the ones who offered vou the $100000.

Mr. CATALOG. The only place we could get it would be Jack Maguire had signed a piece of paper to me and Bob Sarason in reference to this $100000, so we had to go after whoever was on the license, which was Jack Maguire as president and the Finger Lakes Raceway.

Mr. WALDIE. Let me see if I can straighten that out. The first offer for you to find someone to front for this operation was from Osman and Levin ?

Mr. CATALOG. And Bill Levin, right.

Mr. WALDIE. And they offered you $100000 ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. WALDIE. Then you contacted Sarason and told Sarason there was $100000 that could be split ?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes. He walked in the dining room and I told him.

Mr. WALDIE. He worked here ?

Mr. CATALDO. He walked in the dining room of the Belmont Plazf He was the manager of the hotel at the time. He came in contact wit people all the time.

Mr. waldie. why would Osman and Levin get in touch with you ? Were you noted for finding the type of person you described ?


Mr. WALDIE. Did you associate with the type of person you described ?

Mr. CATALOG. I was asked a few weeks before that if I could dig up people with about $5 million with reference to this racetrack. I told

them to forget about it, don't talk to me about these things. I had concessions in the Belmont Plaza and had occasion to be up there quite often.

The next time I was in the dining room having breakfast, Bill Levin and Osman came to me and said to me if I would know anyone that could be acceptable to

the commission. I said, "What's in it? They said to me, "You get a $"100,000 fee." Then Bob Sarason passed and I said, "Sit down, Bob," and I asked him about it.

That is about where it went. Bob thought he could get someone.

Mr. WALDIE. Were Osman and Levin the type of people that could not be licensed ?

Mr. CATALOG. I wouldn't know, sir.

Mr. WALDIE. Why would they be looking for someone ?

Mr. CATALOG. Evidently they were not the type of people that could be licensed. They had an office at the Belmont Plaza at the time.

Mr. WALDIE. Is it a fair assumption that they could not be licensed so they had to find someone who could be ?

Mr. CATALOG. I guess so I don't know.

Mr. WALDIE. Bob Sarason apparently found the fellow that ultimately bought the thing. What was his name ?

Mr. CATALOG. Jack Maguire.

Mr. WALDIE'. And then you met with Maguire ?

Mr. CATALOG. How do you get that ?

Mr. WALDIE. Did you meet them with Maguire after Sarason had found hun ?

Mr. CATALOG. I used to go there quite often, to the hotel. Maguire was living at the hotel after he got in the picture. He lived at the hotel.

Mr. WALDIE. Did Maguire agree that he would take over the commitment ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right.

Mr. WALDIE. Were Osman and Levin in the deal at that time still?

Mr. CATALOG. As far as I knew they were, but I had no discussions with them to really know for sure.

Mr. WALDIE. What kind of paper did Maguire give you ?

Mr. CATALOG. He gave one to me and one to Bob Sarason for $50000 each.

Mr. WALDIE. Was it a note?

Mr. CATALOG. No ; it was no note.

Mr. WALDIE. What was it ?

Mr. CATALOG. It was in a letter form, I would say.

Mr. WALDIE. What did it say ?

Mr. CATALOG. I don't remember.

Mr. WALDIE. Do you have it ?

Mr. CATALOG. No. We gave that to the lawyer when we sued. And I never asked for it back.

Mr. WALDIE. That was the basis of your law suit ?

Mr. CATALOG. That is right, that was the whole basis.

Mr. WALDIE. Mr. Steiger?

Mr. STEIGER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Cataldo, what kind of concession did you run at the Belmont, sir?

Mr. CATAI-DO. I had the valet and checkroom concessions.

Mr. STEIGER. Did you have any other concessions at any other hotels at that time ?

Mr. CATALOG. Well, yes. I think I had the Shelton Towers, the valet, and I may have had the Savoy before it became the Savoy Hilton on 58th Street,

the valets and checkrooms there.

Mr. STEIGER. In the course of your business as a concessionaire, did you have any other kinds of concessions with any with any other kinds of enterprises ?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes. Nightclubs.

Mr. STEIGER. What kind of concessions did you have in nightclubs?

Mr. CATALOG. Checkrooms, selling novelties and flowers, what they usually have in nightclubs.

Mr. STEIGER. Is it a normal situation for a nightclub in a hotel to put these kinds of things out rather than run them themselves?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes, it is a normal situation to sell a concession ; yes, sir.

Mr. STEIGER. And they sell those for a piece of the action or a flat price?

Mr. CATALOG. Usually it is a flat price.

Mr. STEIGER. And in return for that you would furnish the people who would run them ?

Mr. CATALOG. The help, that is right.

Mr. STEIGER. Bellhops ?

Mr. CATALOG. Not bellhops.

Mr. STEIGER. It only would be the cleaning service, for valets ?

Mr. CATALOG. Valets, yes.

Mr. STEIOER. And hat check 2

Mr. CATALOG. The girls, right.

Mr. STEIGER. Was your entire activity confined to the New York City area as far as the concession business is concerned ?

Mr. CATALOG. I went once to Atlantic City for concessions.

Mr. STEIGER. What kind of a business was that ?

Mr. CATALOG. That was just novelties and flowers and pictures.

Mr. STEIGER. Was that in a hotel ?

Mr. CATALOG. No ; in a nightclub.

Mr. STEIGER. By pictures, do you mean the photographers come around?

Mr. CATALOG. The photographer who goes around taking pictures ; yes.

Mr. STEIGER. You have never had any experience as a racetrack concessionaire : is that right?

Mr. CATALOG. No ; never had.

Mr. STEIGER. Did you ever do any business with any racetrack concessionaires ?

Mr. CATALOG. No, sir.

Mr. STEIGER. Were you aware of the Emprise- Jacobs family ?

Mr. CATALDO. I had heard the name but I never knew them or was aware.

Mr. STEIGER. Would you have heard enough to be aware of any general reputation they had as to the kind of people they did business with?

Mr. CATALDO. Jacobs ?


Mr. CATALDO. No; I wasn't too much aware of that. I heard the name many times that they were big concessionaires.

Mr. STEIGER. But you heard nothing about their association ?

Mr. CATALDO. Their activities or associations; no, sir.

Mr. STEIGER. Did you ever do business with a man named Trafficante ?

Mr. CATALDO. No; I never did any business with him but I knew him in Cuba.

Mr. STEIGER. You say you didn't do any business with him ?

Mr. CATALOG. No ; but I knew him from Cuba.

Mr. STEIGER. Were vou interested in the concession business in Cuba. too?

Mr. CATALOG. No ; I was interested in a casino in Cuba. I had some points in a casino in Cuba.

Mr. STEIGER. Which casino was that ?

Mr. CATALDO. The Capri.

Mr. STEIGER. Where was the Capri ?

Mr. CATALDO. The Capri was on 21st Street facing the National Hotel.

Mr. STEIGER. In Havana ?


Mr. STEIGER. Who were some of the other people who had points in the Capri ?

Mr. CATALDO. I wasn't active at all there, and I don't recall too much other than the fellow that was at the head that I bought them through. We used to call him "Fat" but his name was de Castoncio or something.

Mr. STEIGER. It wasn't Tony Salerno, was it? Does that ring a bell?


Mr. STEIGER. Does lannello ring a bell ?

Mr. CATALOG. No : I know him very well.

Mr. STEIGER. You know Mr. lannello ?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes; very well.

Mr. STEIGER. What is his occupation ?

Mr. CATALDO. He has some bars and he is in the factoring business up North, as far as I know.

Mr. STEIGER. The what business ?

Mr. CATALOG. Factoring.

Mr. STEIGER. He buys up past due accounts ? Is that what a factor does?

Mr. CATALOG. That is part of it.

Mr. STEIGER. Collecting.

Mr. CATALDO. They do many things. Loan money and things of that sort.

Mr. STEIGER. Meyer Lansky, was he in the Capri ?

Mr. CATALOG. Not that I know of. He had the Riviera.

Mr. STEIGER. It would be possible for these people to own points and you not know anything about it ?

Mr. CATALDO. That is right, without me knowing it.That is more than possible.

Mr. STEIGER. Allen Segal, do you know him ?

Mr. CATALOG. Yes, sir.

Mr. STEIGER. Did he have points in the Capri ?

Mr. CATALOG. Not that I know of.

Mr. STEIGER. How long were you in the Capri ?

Mr. CATALOG. I couldn't very well say. A couple years, I would imagine.

Mr. STEIGER. And it was just an investment? You didn't have any concessions there?

Mr. CATALDO. No, nothing in the operation. I think it was less than 2 years. Castro came in and that was the end of the story.

Mr. STEIGER. Your associations with Mr. Trafficante, Mr. Lansky, and Mr. Segal were what ?

Mr. CATALOG. I met Mr. Lansky once. I went to him when he was building the Riviera to try to get the taxes for a Dr. Casusso. a Cuban fellow I knew very well who used to be minister of justice. I asked him about it but the deal never went through. I have seen him at the Rivera a couple of times. I was never intimate with him. I would say hello and that was the end.

Mr. STEIGER. You are talking about the Riviera in Havana ?

Mr. CATALDO. That is right.

Mr. STEIGER. I have nothing further.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Mr. Cataldo, we have had a number of references from time to time about points. Can you explain to the committee what points in a casino are ?

Mr. CATALDO. A point in a casino is — one out of a hundred points is a point. You buy a point. In other words, if the casino is a half million dollars a point

is worth $5000 because 100 points make the $500000.

Mr. PHILLIPS. It is just a percentage of the operation?

Mr. CATALDO. Of the 100 points, right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Are there inside points and outside points ?

Mr. CATALDO. Not that I know of. They are all one thing. It is 100 points. If it is $1 million, then it is $10000 a point.

Mr PHILLIPS. How much were your points worth in the casino?

Mr. CATALDO. How much were my points worth ?


Mr. CATALDO. Well, I don't remember what I paid. I think I paid $4000 or $6000 a point. I had 4 points or 4% points. I don't remember. But then when Castro came in we were

lucky to get a few dollars back. They were worth about $27.000, before Castro came in, a point.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Have you ever heard of a skim operation ?

Mr. CATALDO. Skim ?


Mr. CATALDO. No, we didn't have nothing like that. I have heard of it but I don't know what it is.

Mr. PHILLIPS. That is a new innovation.

Mr. CATALDO. Are you talking about a razzle-dazzle ?


Mr. CATALDO. I don't know what you are talking about. I heard the name skim but I can't answer you.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Apparently out in Las Vegas now the technique for getting money out of the operation is to pay the people with secret points. That is called the skim. That means taking the money from the gambling table before they are put on the books and distributing it to people like Mr. Lansky.

Mr. CATALDO. I never had anything to do with the operation.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Did you ever have any interest in Las Vegas casinos ?


Mr. PHILLIPS. None at all ? Mr. CATALOG. No. Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you.

Mr. WALDIE. Thank you, Mr. Cataldo. You are excused. The committee is adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 4:40 pm, the committee adjourned,

Edited by Tom Scully
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